render problem

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render problem // Tech Forum

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Post by sleonard // Feb 23, 2009, 4:50pm

sleonard
Total Posts: 15
quadpro dell presision...vista ultima...4gigs mem...ts7.6

tryimg to do a composite animation render from 2 planes one of which uses transparency

plane1 painted with burning house animation 524 frames

plane2 painted with meteor burning animation and transparency map b/w meteor animation

plane2 on top of plane1...view is from top

set recorder to 524 frames....checked different frams in animation and meteor moves and house fire burns...

render to file and animation does not render only still of frames 1 and 2 are seen or... only frame 2 with out transparency is animated

render in workspace with 1 thur 524 frames and avi selected

added an oject to scene ,a ball...set new frame to 524 and move it as material animations sometimes dont seem to render unless and object is move during frame setting...i think i should not have to do this since i am using animated textures but...a work around is to make the ball invisible during render however the render still does not work... input animations are avi ...rendering avi using cinapak code....animation should show a burning building with a meteor passing thur the seen..help

Post by TomG // Feb 24, 2009, 2:19am

TomG
Total Posts: 3397
I'm not aware of tS handling alpha from video files (I didn't even know video files could have transparency even). I would go for a sequence of image files instead, as image files can have transparency.


The rendering process won't recognize that a texture is animated, so it likes to have something it can see to tell it how many frames there are. Placing an object behind the camera should do, just move it a little and set a KF at the end frame, and there you go.


I also don't think the workspace will update through an image sequence automatically, though I haven't tried. You could try painting an animated shader in the Model side and see how that works, or a bit of LE work would create a shader that did read through an image sequence.


HTH!

Tom

Post by sleonard // Feb 25, 2009, 11:52pm

sleonard
Total Posts: 15
thanks for your responce.......now... i know i can do this in my fxhome effects lab or composite programs...but i hate jumping from program to program...i wanted to do this in TS. the material s library color and transparncey requesters have a selection ...animation...and materials can be painted with videos so i need to find an explaination for the animation option....


now the single file output results in work ....compositing on a frame by frame basics...i did that once on my amiga in the 90's...like to kill me lol.....as for the alpha canneling i simply isolated all of texture i wanted to keep with a paint program and colored the rest black...did a b/w copy of the texture and used them in TS.....i know this is winded but i needed to get this out lol....an explaintion of the option "animation" would be useful here... thanks again

Post by TomG // Feb 26, 2009, 7:06am

TomG
Total Posts: 3397
Animation will let the shaders read a video file and play back frame x from the video in frame x of the tS render - but I'm not aware of it handling transparency. If you had a black and white video showing just the mask then it might work, but if there is a "32 bit video format" with alpha embedded in it (not as a greyscale mask), then I'm not aware of it, and not aware of tS reading it.


Maybe someone with more experience can say, it isn't something I have heard of though.


However having an image sequence, or perhaps black and white video, as an animated transparency mask would probably work. Since I know tS handles 32 bit images, you wouldn't need separate mask images with the image approach (but as I say I am not aware of 32 bit video containing alpha, and not aware that tS handles it if there is such a thing).


HTH!

Tom

Post by v3rd3 // Feb 26, 2009, 12:16pm

v3rd3
Total Posts: 388
Transparency in video is what gives us green screen.....


;)

Post by TomG // Feb 26, 2009, 1:34pm

TomG
Total Posts: 3397
But the effect isn't stored in the video file as information, instead one color is treated as invisible by a processing program. So the video file just contains regular 24 bit color, no alpha bits. Image files can have alpha stored as an extra 8 bits, but as far as I know, video files do not store that information. Such transparency is added programmatically, and only exists within the program, and isn't saved in the AVI or other video file (it might be stored in a program specific file, which would record what color to remove, or may even generate a mask).


Now as I say I could be wrong, but I still have not seen anywhere in encoding video a way to encode an alpha channel. This would mean there is no alpha info for tS materials to use, and you would have to use a black and white video that was a mask (ie it would treat the color of the video as transparency information).


HTH!

Tom

Post by Breech Block // Feb 26, 2009, 4:52pm

Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
pic
...I would go for a sequence of image files instead, as image files can have transparency...The rendering process won't recognize that a texture is animated, so it likes to have something it can see to tell it how many frames there are. Placing an object behind the camera should do, just move it a little and set a KF at the end frame, and there you go.


Okay Tom, put me out of my misery. I spent quite a bit of time tonight trying to get modelside to see a sequence of sequentialy numbered images as a texture but it wasn't having any of it. I tried various incarnations of naming/numbering the images but still no luck. How's it go again? Y'know I'm sure I managed to do this in 6.6 okay. :o

Post by trueBlue // Feb 26, 2009, 6:30pm

trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
pic
In Model:

Apply a Texture to your object
Select the top left icon "Material Animation" in the Material Editor.
Select the Image button shown as horse_00000 in the Color Dialog and browse to your folder where your images are, then select your first image in the sequence.
Check the Anim in the Color Dialog shown with a red check mark.
Select the Record Key in the Material Animation controls.
Advance to your last frame shown as 11 in my example shown.
Select the Image button again in the Color Dialog and select your last image in the sequence.
Select the Paint over Material icon and paint you object.
Check the Anim in the Color Dialog shown with a red check mark.
Select the Record Key in the Material Animation controls.
Select the Play and or Render.

Post by TomG // Feb 27, 2009, 2:50am

TomG
Total Posts: 3397
Hmm, it should be easier than that even.


Open the Model side ME. Choose your first texture in the image sequence. Check Anim. Paint Object. Now change the frame in the Model side AE, and the texture should change in the real-time view (and if you render the image).


No need to record keyframes in this case, in the AE or in the ME, it should just update automatically based on the AE keyframe. Worked fine for me here with a sequence of four primary colors.


Note that to render I would need something recorded in the AE, otherwise the render engine won't pick it up, so a cube moving behind the camera, or a camera move, or anything at all.


Not sure this would translate over to workspace though, not tested that yet.


HTH!

Tom

Post by TomG // Feb 27, 2009, 4:28am

TomG
Total Posts: 3397
As a note, recording keyframes, and using Paint Over at particular keyframes, allows you to create animation where there isn't any in the incoming texture file.


For instance, if you use plain color, you can have blue at frame 0, then go to frame 60 in the main AE, change to red, and use Paint Over, and get a transition from blue to red. Or a transition in diffuse or shininess.


Or you can use the ME AE and make the animated material itself - open the animation editor inside the ME, go to frame 20, select blue and hit record, now you fade from your original color to blue over 20 frames. Now use Paint Object and you paint this animation onto any object (this way the animation is contained in the ME for painting onto anything, so you can carry that animation across to multiple objects).


But for accessing already existing texture animation as an image sequence or video, just painting the object with that material with Animated checked should be enough, no need to create keyframes etc, the magic should all happen automatically!


HTH!

Tom

Post by Breech Block // Feb 27, 2009, 12:05pm

Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
pic
First, apologies to sleonard if I appear to have somewhat hijacked his thread. :o


Second, many thanks to trueBlue and Tom as due to their responses I have now managed to get this working on my PC. :cool:


That said, despite following both your guides, I still couldn't get it to work properly. However, you put me on the right track and I ended up with a working soloution that only differs slightly.


@ Tom - Yes, did all that, and indeed got the texture to update in real time on the object no problem at all. It was quite cool to see. As I slid the the "Current Frame" marker around in the Scene Editor, so I could see the object's texture update. And I had 250 textures! However, everytime I tried to render it out, the texture remained unanimated. Go figure.


@ trueBlue - followed your very clear instructions and could see the sequence play through correctly in the ME Preview window no problem, but evertime I rendered the scene out, the material remained static.


In the end, I just used the recording facility in the ME like a video editing suite and built up the texture sequence I wanted. Then when it was all finished and played through correctly, rewound everthing and then just used the Paint Object tool and Hey Presto! It worked.

Post by TomG // Feb 27, 2009, 12:30pm

TomG
Total Posts: 3397
Good to know! I always forget quite how this works and have to go and try it out each time someone asks :) So it is good to have it in a thread just now, hopefully it will be useful info for several folks.


Thanks!

Tom

Post by sleonard // Mar 3, 2009, 6:08pm

sleonard
Total Posts: 15
i'am a little lost on the responces here...painting an animation on an object was never a problem as i simply painted my object with a video and check the animate button in the texture pane... then move an oject that was out of view and set a kf equal to the last frame of the video in ts6....then render the scene as a avi file

my problem is with the transparency...a b/w video transparency map should work and does when you render a particular frame in a animation.. ... but when you try to render the whole anim to a avi file the transparency fails....i thank everyone who has responed but..i will need some time to check out your responces as "crs" member at age 60+...(crs... can't remeber sh!@#$)

Post by TomG // Mar 4, 2009, 2:34am

TomG
Total Posts: 3397
Hmm, not sure, perhaps animation isn't supported in transparency. What happens if you use a numbered sequence of images instead, does that work? That would be my first suggestion on what to try if the video file isn't working, see if that makes a difference.


HTH!

Tom
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