export?

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export? // Tech Forum

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Post by zop // Nov 29, 2008, 7:37am

zop
Total Posts: 14
can version 7.6 export into say, bryce (or import into bryce)? doesn't appear to be the case. hope i'm wrong. if i am, how do you as the drop downs don't seem to list that feature.

Post by nigec // Nov 29, 2008, 9:38am

nigec
Total Posts: 314
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If you save your project as a SCN or COB using the 6.6 tools dropdown, they go into Bryce no problem.. personally i always exported as 3DS, I can't recall the reason tho lol

If you scale textures in TS, they go back to the image size in Bryce


I've done cubic games and all my modeling is done in TS, exported to Bryce for lights, cameras and effects

Post by zop // Nov 29, 2008, 1:46pm

zop
Total Posts: 14
hi and thanks. i'm not using my system right now so can't see. but does 7.6 have this tools drop down save feature you mention? i was simply looking under file etc.


i have dazstudio, bryce and hexagon. does this trio cover everything TS does?


seems TS is more the modeler like hex. i like studio for characters. so i've hexagon and or TS to learn.

Post by nigec // Nov 29, 2008, 11:44pm

nigec
Total Posts: 314
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Yeah the drop down is just below "files,help" and to the left as you look a the computer screen


The easy way is to model the scene in TS, then rig your world, lights, camera, effects in Bryce, then using the DAZ bridge to get the characters into Bryce


the big headache with Daz to TS is you end up needing to find textures, and problem with hair and clothes, there is forum topics on how to do this less painfully


HTH!

Post by TomG // Dec 1, 2008, 2:44am

TomG
Total Posts: 3397
There are two file menus, one in the workspace side, and one in the Model side. The Model side features the old formats such as COB and SCN mentioned here (the workspace side is the new code, so features the new formats like RsSCN).


The Model side also features many other 3D stalwarts when it comes for formats, and the LUUV plugin for export / import to OBJ. So be sure to use the Model side when looking to export and import from other apps and you can't find what you need on the workspace side, as the Model side features some of these legacy formats.


HTH!

Tom

Post by zop // Dec 2, 2008, 12:28am

zop
Total Posts: 14
not sure what the luuv plugin is. but i did find the model side save features.

but here's what happens; whenever i switch to the model side, i can't get back to workspace. it freezes, completely (if i try to get back to workspace). i have to reinstall.

to, when i click save the box does come down. but when i click the save button itself it does'nt do anything.

thanks

Post by TomG // Dec 2, 2008, 2:37am

TomG
Total Posts: 3397
Time for screen grabs, or sharing the saved file. Something is up if you get completely stuck. You won't need to reinstall btw, just kill the app in task manager.


As well as a snapshot of the scene / objects you are working on, be sure to capture the settings you have in the stack for the Bridge. And be sure to share your system specs, including OS, GPU, and GPU driver version. That info will help diagnose what is happening.


LUUV is an old plugin, check the manual for loading those in the Model side, it's easy to do, adds a new icon to your toolbars which you can use to load and save OBJ format.


HTH!

Tom

Post by zop // Dec 6, 2008, 8:15am

zop
Total Posts: 14
well i can save a file. but when trying to import into bryce i get, "a file error has occurred (i/o bad media)".


using a geforrce fx 5200. almost 3 ghz chip but only 512 of ram. don't think this would effect window switching tho.

not sure how to get a screen shot. but there's nothing to capture really. when i switch back to workspace, it appears to be a blackened out (close up) Section of the object. this or it's mostly blacked out. and it locks up.

thanks

Post by nigec // Dec 6, 2008, 10:15am

nigec
Total Posts: 314
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Sometimes I've had the LUUV plugin not show a progress bar, which would stop something importing into Bryce and cause TS to freeze


you also need to trianglate things with holes in....


I use 3DS into Bryce, it seems less prone to flipping faces


I'd try exporting something simple with a simple map attached


I couldn't get TS 7.6 to work very well on a Acer laptop of a similar sized chip and 512 Ram

I'm running Vista with 1.5GB which is actually closer to 750 by time you take into account shared memory etc and at times it slows down

Post by Heidi // Dec 6, 2008, 11:22am

Heidi
Total Posts: 335
Obj material files don't look beyond the folder they're in for associated texture maps. So make sure all of the texture files for your obj are in the same folder as the obj and mtl files. If Bryce can't find one of your texture files, you'll get a bad media message.


I've found the LUUV plugin to be very reliable. On the far right of the bottom left row of icons (modeler). There is an icon that looks like a blue plug. Double-click it. That will open the tsx folder. Double-click to open the LUUV folder in there and then open the LUUV.tsx. You should now have an icon button with OBJ on it located right next to the one with the plug.


Right-click the new OBJ icon. The help button will give you information that you can play with. My preferred settings to presever groups on export and import and group by material. I do not triangulate or fill holes unless I have to (i.e exporting without triangulation and filling holes didn't work). It's rare that holes need to be filled and filling them can cause extra faces in unwanted places.


To export to an obj using LUUV, hold down the alt-key and click the OBJ icon. Save your obj to the folder containing it's texture files. I also name my obj the same name as it is called in TS.


A general limitation of obj files is that they do not carry transparency information with them. If you've used transparencies, you'll have to reapply the transparency information when you get into Bryce or wherever you're going to use it. That's one of the reasons I export grouped by material.


To export objects from Bryce... first, you can only export terrains, lattices, rocks, and previously imported meshes.


For exporting terrains and lattices select your object and click the E to go into the terrain editor. There's an export button in there. For other objects, select the object and click on the E to bring up the mesh editor dialog. You can export to other formats from this dialog by clicking Control-D.


Bryce doesn't export materials when you export an object. However, you can export image-based texture maps from the material editor. If you need to export a procedural material from Bryce you're going to have to apply that material to a plane or to your object and render from the top. You can then use the render as a texture map in your target application.

Post by zop // Dec 7, 2008, 5:31am

zop
Total Posts: 14
thanks for the replies. i was able to click through to luuv etc. but if i can't access workspace all this is for naught ins'nt it?

and for me, bryce is the final cut, so to speak. everything goes into it...


ok, what i would like - and i suppose i "could" do this with ts - is to be able to Morph Objects In Animations. i don't need just the modeler. i want to animate, as in morph, the object (as the animation). ie., like (an animation sequence that shows a) morph (of) a sphere Into a tetrehedron. i'd hoped that bryce would do this.


so far, i just can't seem to get to this stage. last night i tried to install quicktime to view the tutorial vids for hexagon. but for this you need service pack 2...which of course my system won't install correctly. a pc tech couldn't even fix it. i am barking up the wrong tree here!


but i can use bryce and studio. i'll have to figure out hex by trial and error.

but as mentioned, my intention is to show the morphing of objects within the animation. surely there's a program that does this, that my system will allow!? :o blender?

Post by Heidi // Dec 7, 2008, 7:43am

Heidi
Total Posts: 335
I don't know what you're system will allow, so I can't answer that one for you. I also don't know why you're having a problem going from modeler to workspace. Changing your bridge settings may help. (see manual Appendix A-4, page 7)


I can tell you that the workspace side of TS has the ability to create morphs. However, it's not automatic... you have to create the morph target. In the attached video I started with a sphere and created a morph that changes it to a cylinder. I had to move the vertices to create the cylinder shape for the morph. But TS then saved that new cylinder shape as a morph target for the sphere.


TS has one of the more advanced morphing tools. It even allows you to add or delete vertices as part of your morph. The morph tool is on the workspace side (see manual chapt 9.4, page 97).


The model side also has a standalone deform capability that may work for you (see manual chapt 4, page 177).


Edit: I've attached a second morph video that has a more practical appliction and demonstrates what you can do when you use a morph to add vertices.

Post by TomG // Dec 8, 2008, 2:26am

TomG
Total Posts: 3397
As a note, the 5200 card is not DX9.0c compatible, which tS7.6 requires to work. Anything less than a 6x series card from NVIDIA is not DX9 compatible (it is done in software and not hardware, so is very very slow at best, even on a 5600, let alone a 5200). So it is true you won't get good performance or accurate rendering from the real-time view in the workspace without an upgraded graphics card.


It is possible the scene is taking a long time to reload when you swap to the workspace as a result. You can try turning down the settings for the real-time renderer to a more compatible version of DX, in the workspace File menu choose HW Settings, and drop from Full Quality down to Pixel Shaders 1.4 or even lower. But really, the 5200 card is not up to running tS, sorry to say - a new graphics card would be recommended. If you are PCI-E, you can multiply your performance by a frightening factor with a card in 8x series or 9x for less than a $100, even as low as $30 or $40 in fact, or with an AGP slot if you have an older motherboard, you can look for the 7x series, probably around $30 or $40 again if you can find it (though AGP tend to be overpriced in comparison, often running around $100, for something much less powerful than the newer PCI-E cards).


You could also just try working in the Model side if you can't upgrade your hardware, though you will miss out on a lot of goodies in the workspace like the new modeling tools, the new morphing tools, the new rigging tools, etc, so a hardware upgrade would be something to seriously consider given your specific needs.


Thanks!

Tom

Post by zop // Dec 8, 2008, 3:34am

zop
Total Posts: 14
ok thanks folks. have to reinstall to get into workspace (task m/reopen just puts me back in model, lock). but i switched that HW setting to the weakest (on model side), which made everything grey. with this i got the hour glass, which remained until i shut the program down...:banana:

where in system info can i find if i'm pci-e or agp? tho i did see agp controller, so i guess i've that. :banana:

funny, i asked for top shelf stuff in order to do all this and here i am mucking around with needed upgrades, or something. :jumpy:

have been using hexagon with no problem.

will reinstall and get to the workspace drop down...

Post by prodigy // Dec 8, 2008, 3:51am

prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Just a point Tom, GF5200 is DX9, i had one.. but was the worst vga ever made (with no offense).. cos is like a gforce 440mx (Dx8) but with more instructions (dx9) so the performance is the worst..

I trully recomend upgrade to a GF6600 or above.. im still running a 6600 agp and the performance is great..

Try to find one on e-bay you will see a huge diference even if you play games.

Cheers

Post by zop // Dec 8, 2008, 3:56am

zop
Total Posts: 14
well perhaps we are getting somewhere. i reinstalled and switched a HW setting to dx7 basic. with this i can now switch from workspace to model and back. no lock ups.

but i still get the weird screen once back in workspace. the background is dark blue. there's a large white triangle blotch over this (with the points extending off screen). there's a short line of white dots... can't get rid of it without closing.

i'm sure you're right in general. but it seems to me that i should be able to do lightweight stuff with TS, regardless of hardware (within reason). surely they've put some backward compatibility here.

so close. :o

Post by TomG // Dec 8, 2008, 3:58am

TomG
Total Posts: 3397
You shouldn't need to reinstall, just get tS to open with a default empty scene. Much quicker than doing a reinstall :)


Hmm who did you ask for top shelf stuff? The 5x series are about 4 or 5 years old now, and the 5200 wasnt the best of that series even, so it is very out of date. Top shelf these days is the NVIDIA GX series, running at around $200 at the cheapest. However, with that new series out, you can now get some great deals on the 8 or 9 series, which give awesome performance. I use a 2 year old 8800 GTS, which performs brilliantly in tS, and you can pick it up for around $80 these days.


Also on the top shelf issue, AGP was the standard for graphics cards, again about 4 years ago. Everything has been PCI-E since then, so again your system is very out of date. Just mentioning, in case you were told this is top shelf, as sorry to say it is long way from it - with the speed tech moves, 4 years is old, even my 2 year old machine is definitely long in the tooth and far below what is out there these days :) But still more than adequate to run tS with awesome performance!


Other 3D apps may well run fine, as they do not have the real-time rendering featured in tS - real-time soft shadows, sophisticated DX9 materials, etc. This is a feature of tS that sets it apart from the other apps, the quality offered in real-time - and that's why you can run the real-time of other apps with older tech, and tS needs something a bit newer, since it offers more features and so requires that newer technology.


If you can pick up an old 6 or 7 series NVIDIA for AGP, you will still see a HUGE difference, as those are genuine hardware DX9 cards - slow, admittedly, compared to the latest ones. I had a 5600 about 4 years ago, and it never did run tS. I then upgraded to a 6600 and it worked fine, then a 7600 which was even better, before swapping to my PCI-E with an 8800 2 years ago. So you should be able to get leaps and bounds of improvement for little money.


BTW everything being grey is as expected on workspace when you turn down the settings - the lighting, texturing, etc is turned off to improve performance, the only way to get older tech (ie things more than 3 or 4 years old) to run.


Sorry to say though, the 5200 is below the minimum required specification for tS to run, and I do suspect it is why you are getting this lock up in swapping to workspace.



HTH!

Tom


PS - Some cross posting there. No backwards compatibility for such tech I'm afraid, it really is old now - not only that, but never buy an NVIDIA at less than a x600, eg don't buy less than a 6600, 7600, 8600 etc. Below that, the chipsets are crippled, and often run slower than the previous generation, so a 7200 is slower than a 6600 for instance, and way slower than a 6800. Same for an 8200, you'll find the 7600 performs better. Same with a 9200, the 8600 performs better. So the 5200, as mentioned in Prodigy's post, was worse than the previous 4 series, and those go back about 6 years. The mimimum spec for tS, as posted on the specifications page, is a fully DX9.0c card, and that makes the 6600 the entry point (and even that is 4 years old, so that's pretty good backwards compatibility for a high-end, advanced real-time 3D engine!).


EDIT - PPS more cross posting - the 5 series were not DX9 compatible. It was listed on the box, but was misleading - this was software emulation of DX9 only and not a hardware implementation of it. Half Life 2 would detect it, and run in DX8 mode since it did not truly offer DX9 performance or abilities. The 5 series sadly still show up in Wal-Mart etc, even to this day, and it was annoying to see them listed as DX9 compatible when that was by far a huge stretch in the truth ;)

Post by zop // Dec 9, 2008, 1:27pm

zop
Total Posts: 14
10-4. did mention that i can now switch betwixt workspace and model. it's what happens when i get back to workspace. but it's not a lock up any longer; i get a big white triangle blotch. i suppose this is akin to a lock up tho...

i'll assume this is the graphics card - and not some other gremlin.

however; i think the download page (for the prog, pdf and movies) has some issues. could be my end but twice now i've found several viruses after having downloaded stuff from there. i don't surf with this system and i got the same kinda critters (having downloaded from there twice).
due to timing (ie., after i installed TS) i started getting weird behavior. my firefox browser would turn white then i'd lose connection (as i was downloading the movies). have to reboot afterwards. this is the first time this has ever happened.
don't know enough about this stuff but i'm guessing i'd get the same stuff if i attempted to download the movies again.
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