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Widgets (workspace)
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Widgets (workspace) // Tech Forum
Post by Stem // Aug 5, 2008, 4:52am
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Stem
Total Posts: 199
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1. Is there a way to change the size of the object widget
2. When in 4 views and I use, for example the top XY view and I attempt to move the object along the X, why is there also a rotation around the Y?, which I usually end up selecting by accident. Why on earth would I want to rotate around the Y in the XY view.
3. When going into 4 views, why does the front view become the side view, and the side view the front. |
Post by Steinie // Aug 5, 2008, 4:59am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=4046
This was made for me by Stan. I love this widget!!!
It does more then just resize! |
Post by W!ZARD // Aug 5, 2008, 12:11pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Wow! Do people still use the 4 view layout? I always work in one big 3d view and switch between views using hotkeys. I never understood the logic of using only a quarter of the screen when you could easily use the whole thing. I learned my first modeling and PE stuff using the traditional 4 view but once I figured I could hot key the views I never went back to it.
Using the widget so that what ever movements I'm making are constrained to what ever axis is required works a treat.
Also using hot keys for changing between object, world and screen coordinates systems as required gives plenty of control over objects and PE movement.
I really like Steinies Locking Widget too but have not felt the neerd to use it since following Jacks Fish tutorial (Organic Modeling course).
Hope this helps. |
Post by transient // Aug 5, 2008, 3:48pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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Four views definitely still has it's place, although it is out of fashion for many organic modelers who seem to like rotating the view constantly to maintain form. This suits some, but not others.
Four views is still good if you need to quickly adjust models precisely, I personally wouldn't like to make inorganic models without this setup. Shade has a particularly good four-view workflow. |
Post by kena // Aug 5, 2008, 4:56pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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Wow! Do people still use the 4 view layout? I always work in one big 3d view and switch between views using hotkeys. I never understood the logic of using only a quarter of the screen when you could easily use the whole thing. I learned my first modeling and PE stuff using the traditional 4 view but once I figured I could hot key the views I never went back to it.
Heh.. for people like you and I, W!ZARD, a single big view is needed because we can only focus so much. we NEED the big pictures. :D
For other people coming from other programs with the 4 view, it provides a greater ease of learning and working. |
Post by spacekdet // Aug 5, 2008, 5:35pm
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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Four view makes modeling a snap without worrying about switching views or modes (World/Object/Screen). It can be incredibly fast for accurately aligning objects. The only real downside is the smaller views. It's nothing you can't get used to, and when you render, you end up with a nice big image anyway.
It's all a matter of personal preference. |
Post by W!ZARD // Aug 5, 2008, 10:24pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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I used to like the 4 view as moving things in one of the views automatically constrained it to a specific axis when using the move object icon. These days I never use the move object icon instead relying on the widget for determining movement - this does have the drawback of occasionally creating a misalignment if you accidentally grab the wrong part of the widget.
There's certainly nothing "wrong" with using the 4 view - and in programs like Vue you don't have as much choice. The ability to do it all in one large screen and accessing ortho views with hotkeys is one of my favourite tS view features. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Aug 5, 2008, 11:09pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Just a note to you guys since I don't know how much the feature has been publicized, but you can now use TAB key to hide the Mesh Edit widget while working. I find that is very useful when doing extrudes and using tools that have their own manipulators. |
Post by transient // Aug 5, 2008, 11:15pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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That's great, thanks.:) |
Post by Igor K Handel // Aug 6, 2008, 12:11am
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Igor K Handel
Total Posts: 411
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Must be an age thing;
If I am going to use 4 view I either need bigger glasses, bigger eyes, or a double size screen!
Having said that multiple views are useful just as a check when posing characters for animation. Even then I often find it faster to rotate the view really quickly rather than squint at some pixelated postage stamp in the corner of my screen.
Like Wiz I find hotkeys way faster so I have just about every major PE tool plus all the snapping, axis locking, move rotate and scale etc wired to a key or quick combo. I also find it faster to have a copy of the snap, axis locks and axis tools on snapped to the edge of the 3D screen. I just use the icons as a fast visual ref as to what settings are on. Just from old habits I use the Maya alt mousekey method of moving my view, in fact I don't even bother with having the rotate, pan or dolly tools visible or hotkeyed.
Of course all this doesn't make me a better modeller, it just means I can make bad models faster :D
Ik |
Post by W!ZARD // Aug 6, 2008, 12:24am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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:I suspect that 50 different tSers asked to each model teapot each of them would do it a different way! |
Post by TomG // Aug 6, 2008, 4:12am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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That's demonstrated in the TNL! speed modeling, where you get to watch folks model - next one is tomorrow (August 7th at 5pm PST!).
Thanks!
Tom |
Post by Stem // Aug 6, 2008, 4:17am
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Stem
Total Posts: 199
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This was made for me by Stan. I love this widget!!!Thanks,
Is it not strange how questions concerning TS just bring up more and more questions. Like my question would now be "How do I add that widget into TS?"
Since the release of TS7.6, I have spent more time looking through the user manual/ searching the forums and posting question than actually using TS,... I am not having much fun. Other 3d software I have/use, I very rarely even have to look at the user manual.
The widgets in TS7.6 workspace are (IMHO) quite bad, even with TS4.x I could change the size of the widget, move/align it with faces, disable parts with mouse clicks, even use the right mouse button to constrain to one axis.
- Stem |
Post by Stem // Aug 6, 2008, 4:28am
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Stem
Total Posts: 199
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Wow! Do people still use the 4 view layout? I quite like 4 views, but of course use single views.
Using the widget so that what ever movements I'm making are constrained to what ever axis is required works a treat.
I dont really like to have my hand constantly floating over the keyboard pressing keys, it does not work for me.
For the views, I can simply go into 4 views, then double left click the top of the view I want as full screen, then can click it again to reduce and have 4 views again.
As for the constraints, again, thats more keys pressing I do not like,... better implementation of the widgets I would find more helpful. As example, I would not mind pressing keys to change the widget to move/ rotate / scale as I do in other programs (as those key press are not as often needed, and can also be done from screen), and with such a setup I find no need for axis constraints, the widget axis are far easier to select without error.
- Stem |
Post by TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb // Aug 6, 2008, 6:54am
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TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb
Total Posts: 858
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I always use 4 view. Always have, always will. I find it much faster as I often use two or more views for moving/sizing/lining up and don't want to have to keep switching between views to check. It's certainly far more accurate than one big 3D view as you can't guarantee that something's not wonky due to perspective. I've recently had to prepare some accurate plans for a prop to be made, couldn't do that it in one big 3D view, had to check alignments, etc, in four view.
One of my biggest gripes about 7.6 is that they didn't fix the stupid 4 view implementation in workspace. Four toolbars all showing the same icons but all with apparantly different activated tools? Either make the toolbars sync or, even better, when you switch to four view, get rid of three of them. |
Post by W!ZARD // Aug 6, 2008, 12:32pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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I dont really like to have my hand constantly floating over the keyboard pressing keys, it does not work for me.
- Stem
Yeah I realise it's different for different folks of course. I've trained myself to use my mouse in my sub-dominant hand - this is to spread the load for RSI/OOS issues. It means that I'm not doing everything with my right hand but spreads the load across both hands more evenly. Thus I use my right hand for keyboard shortcuts and my left for mousing.
As I'm a guitarist from waaaay back I find this approach more suitable. It can also be very fast - instead of using my mouse to activate the icon - and moving my pointer across the screen I'm using my other hand to activate the tool via the keyboard. As a musician it just makes sense to me to use both hands as much as possible.
Additionally I have my screen view shortcuts set to my numpad which is by my right hand. This allows me to switch views very quickly without needing to let go of the mouse.
@Kate - Sounds like your an old-fashioned kind of girl Kate - did you start by using CAD progs? I've used both 4 view and single view and I'm not sure that 4 views are faster than hotkeyed view changes. By using the appropriate part of the widget, the middle mouse key for rotating my perspective view and using hotkeyed view changes I have no issues with wonky perspectives - and having the "Nearest Ortho View" icon hotkeyed is simply brilliant.
For me the real key to success was to start mousing with my left hand - took me about a week to get used to it.
HTH |
Post by Stem // Aug 6, 2008, 12:50pm
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Stem
Total Posts: 199
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Yeah I realise it's different for different folks of course.I agree, but would of thought software vendors would attempt to cover as many bases as possible with how various users would work. As I mentioned earlier, TS 4.x allowed me quite a few options for the object widget and I cannot understand why that is now laid in stone with no options.
As for moving around the screen with the mouse, I do not use a mouse, I prefer a trackball and I can navigate very quickly, it is only the size and config of the object widget that gives me issues with selection.
As for my spare hand, I dont really have one. One hand is on the trackball, the other is usually holding a sandwich/cup of coffee/a tinny or I am writing notes. I like to multi-task :D
I will find out how to add that widget mentioned, maybe that will help |
Post by Stem // Aug 6, 2008, 1:18pm
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Stem
Total Posts: 199
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Hi Steinie,
I love this widget!!!I can now see why.
Certainly a keeper on my setup for TS
- Steve |
Post by Steinie // Aug 6, 2008, 1:28pm
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Thanks. The only pain is that you must reload it if you select "reset to default context".
By the way...
There is also a Maya control that I use all the time you might want to try also.
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showpost.php?p=32534&postcount=13 |
Post by Stem // Aug 6, 2008, 1:48pm
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Stem
Total Posts: 199
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Hi Steinie,
The only pain is that you must reload it if you select "reset to default context". I have now saved the default layout to include the widget,.. but even if I had to load it on each session it would be worth it.
By the way...
There is also a Maya control that I use all the time you might want to try also.Many thanks, but I dont like zoom,.. it did confuse me at first, as when I zoomed into an object to edit, then rotated around it, other objects in scene would get in the way/view even though quite a distance away, I did not realize at first what was happening, but once I did, I just use the move, which with the trackball I use is quite quick, although some options to speed that up in TS would certainly be very welcomed.
- Steve |
Post by trueBlue // Aug 6, 2008, 4:26pm
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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The only pain is that you must reload it if you select "reset to default context".
No more pain! You can run this script to save your changes to customized widgets:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showpost.php?p=18182&postcount=4 (http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showpost.php?p=18182&postcount=4) |
Post by TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb // Aug 7, 2008, 1:03am
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TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb
Total Posts: 858
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Sounds like your an old-fashioned kind of girl Kate - did you start by using CAD progs?
Nope, I started with tS SE.
I'm not sure that 4 views are faster than hotkeyed view changes
They are If you have a heavy scene, you don't have to wait for the a redraw every time you change view as they're all there to start with. |
Post by W!ZARD // Aug 8, 2008, 10:29pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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I'm not sure that 4 views are faster than hotkeyed view changes
They are If you have a heavy scene, you don't have to wait for the a redraw every time you change view as they're all there to start with.
Ah, good point - specially with Model-side/tS6.6 and earlier. However this was never a problem with my workflow which always involved heavy use of Layers for hiding stuff not being directly worked on.
I've yet to experience any redraw problems using Workspace either.
Also, I would imagine that you using 4 view would be way faster than me using 4 view!!:D |
Post by jamesmc // Aug 8, 2008, 10:35pm
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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4 View is more important in non-organic/CAD type drawings where alignment must be maintained.
Often, if I make a scene and looking through the perspective view and place an object, a view in the top and/or front view shows how really far off my placement is.
This of course, is done at a glance without hot keying/switching screens. |
Post by Stem // Aug 9, 2008, 5:04am
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Stem
Total Posts: 199
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Well, its a shame that my questions concerning the 4 views have not been addressed, instead the thread has been highjacked into a "what is better, 4 or single view"
I will use an application that gives me correct 4 views and is not a pain to navigate. |
Post by Steinie // Aug 9, 2008, 6:29am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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OK Let's start over:
1. Is there a way to change the size of the object widget
2. When in 4 views and I use, for example the top XY view and I attempt to move the object along the X, why is there also a rotation around the Y?, which I usually end up selecting by accident. Why on earth would I want to rotate around the Y in the XY view.
3. When going into 4 views, why does the front view become the side view, and the side view the front.
Question 1. I gave you a way to do it. Why you can't do it with the default widget I do not know.
Question 2. I'll let the Devs explain their reasoning.
Question 3. Look at my two screens, is this what you are seeing?
or is this the problem?
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=5297 |
Post by trueBlue // Aug 9, 2008, 7:39am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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3. When going into 4 views, why does the front view become the side view, and the side view the front.
I can confirm this as well, most likely a human error. Ever have those moments? What I did was change them with the view tools and save the layout. The titlebar names do not change no matter what you change the views to. HTH |
Post by W!ZARD // Aug 9, 2008, 10:56pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Well, its a shame that my questions concerning the 4 views have not been addressed, instead the thread has been highjacked into a "what is better, 4 or single view"
I will use an application that gives me correct 4 views and is not a pain to navigate.
Can't say I'm overly impressed by your tone stem. You expressed that you had issues with the 4 view so I suggested an alternative workflow which would make those issues irrelevant. Other people commented on that suggestion - I exercised good manners by responding to them as I had responded to you. If you want to see this as hijacking be my guest - where I come from it's called good manners.
If you can find an application that gives you 'correct 4 views and is not a pain to navigate' perhaps you would be so kind as to let us know what that application is? This would allow us to exercise our own judgement.
Finally, I do not find tS to be a pain to navigate - in fact once I learned how to use it I found it a pleasure to navigate. This leads me to wonder if trueSpace is really a pain to navigate or are you trying to navigate it in a painful way?
What aspects of tS navigation are you finding painful - perhaps someone can suggest less painful ways of doing it. Some methods are simply more efficient than others - hence my original suggestion to use one large switchable view rather than 4 small views.
Hope this helps |
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