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This program is resource hungy and slow?
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
This program is resource hungy and slow? // Tech Forum
Post by Tecy // Jul 25, 2008, 11:51am
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Tecy
Total Posts: 3
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Hello eveyone!
Im new here, new to Truspace but not new to 3D. I got this feature packed software the version 7.6 but cant run it.
Takes ages to move from workspace to Model room I somtimes get a huge delays. Im getting render errors randomly with crashes.
My PC is more than powerfull enougth to run this application as im running XSI, Modo, Zbrush, Carrara pro 6, Hexagon 2.5. They all run flawless.
My OS is Vista ultimate 64, Q6600 @ 3.5ghz, 4GB of ram, 8800gt. I would love to get this into my pipeline as this shows by spec to be having great potential, but at the moment I cant get anything done both for stability reasons and no standards as used by ther apps from what iv seen so far.
Cant seem to find hotkeys to rotate, pan, scale and zoom, havent got that much time to fiddle with this app so need to get the basics out the way fast.
Any sugestions or help would be much apreciated. |
Post by splinters // Jul 25, 2008, 12:00pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Your post title suggests you are quite disgruntled yet your post is far less abrasive...
Remember that tS7.6 is effectively two programs so it uses up more resources. If you don't intend moving between model and workspace then you can turn off the bridge for a performance boost.
As for hot keys: Z is move, X rotate and C scale. Use the widget to pan rotate etc. or use the icon at the top of model screen (toolbar may be minimised down to a small grey dot). You can zoom with a mouse wheel too! |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 25, 2008, 12:08pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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The widget at the bottom right of the 3D window controls your view. Middle mouse button + CTRL/ALT/SHIFT also performs view navigation.
If you're new to TrueSpace you don't need to use Model side except for importing. It's the old TS 6.6 bolted on for backwards compatibility while the application transitions to the new Workspace architecture. Everything you need to work has pretty much been already ported over to the new Workspace side with the release of 7.6.
Video drivers may also be an issue especially if you have an nVidia card. TrueSpace is very sensitive to the different driver versions because of the way it uses HLSL for it's D3D material shaders and performs other 3D processing directly on the video card as well.
Another consideration is that TrueSpace performs better on consumer Direct3D type cards than "Workstation" OpenGL type cards. Since you have and 8800 card you should be fine in that department as long as the drivers are working ok. |
Post by Johny // Jul 25, 2008, 12:10pm
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Johny
Total Posts: 672
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May be that's your graphics cards drivers problem. Because tS7.6 run well on my 2.2GHz, 2GB Ram, 8600GT. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 25, 2008, 12:54pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Ahah! I bet I know what the problem is Tecy. Are you importing objects with deep hierarchies?
Grouping and encapsulation tends to slow TrueSpace down a lot faster than number of polygons does. Collapsing your hierarchies to single meshes will improve performance significantly.
Using material instancing can help with resources as well. |
Post by Tecy // Jul 25, 2008, 1:35pm
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Tecy
Total Posts: 3
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Your post title suggests you are quite disgruntled yet your post is far less abrasive...
Wasnt intended that way, was just to sum up how its behaving. I know I gota give it more chance, it just not good for a new user to hit a brick wall this early.
Thanks for the hot keys.
@Jack Edwards, Iv not got as far as loading any of my own work in yet, the default head is in the scene while these things are happining, thanks for all the info.
@Johny, thanks, but all my other apps are working fine and these drivers are up to date, Nvidia dont release them as often as ATI. |
Post by Délé // Jul 25, 2008, 1:42pm
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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Like splinters mentioned, turning off the bridge will likely help dramatically. I usually stay on the workspace side so I just keep the bridge off. If I need to use something on the model side, I'll turn it on momentarily to use whatever I need, then switch back and turn it off again.
When the bridge is set to "on" or "auto" (default), it is constantly sending information back and forth between the old architecture and the new one which can bog things down quickly. There really is no need to have it on unless you need to jump to the other side to do something quick. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 25, 2008, 1:46pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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You're welcome Tecy. Hope we can pin down the problem for you.
That scene is smooth on my 7900GS card and 3.0 Ghz Xeon (Core2Duo) chip. I'm also on Vista x64, but I'm currently using the 177.66 beta drivers so that could be the difference.
The shader on the head is HLSL heavy. If you dig down into the material you can see that there's some pretty crazy math going on in there per pixel rendered. So it's definitely possible that it's a driver issue.
You can get more recent (and unreleased) nVidia beta drivers here:
http://www.laptopvideo2go.com/forum/index.php?showforum=88
They also have hacked .inf files that you can download to use drivers for cards other than those originally intended for the driver, which is particularly useful with the OEM drivers from specific board or computer manufacturers. |
Post by splinters // Jul 25, 2008, 1:51pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Just to add, tS runs nice and smooth on my AMD X26000 with 4GB Ram and a Geforce 7900GT. Nothing has really caused it to grind to a halt yet...:) |
Post by RichLevy // Jul 25, 2008, 2:02pm
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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I have a 6600 quad core, 4 gigs of ram a 8600GT graphics card, Vista 32 bit.
I have been messing around with a 200K model I did (single mesh) and it is pretty peppy in TS...
Hope that is of some use... |
Post by jamesmc // Jul 25, 2008, 2:19pm
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Q6600 @ 3.5ghz, 4GB of ram, 8800gt
This is what I have, except I run Windows Home Premium 32 bit.
3.5ghz? Is yours overclocked?, Mine is 6600 Quad Core running at 2.4 ghz.
It's weird that some programs run on computers without problems and then an almost identical computer it has big problems, just weird.
I run the following programs as well. Zbrush, Carrara pro 6, Hexagon 2.5.
However, hexagon 2.5 crashes on me frequently so stopped using it. :D
As I said weird.
Don't have a solution for you, just commiserating. |
Post by Breech Block // Jul 25, 2008, 4:05pm
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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My OS is Vista ultimate 64, Q6600 @ 3.5ghz, 4GB of ram, 8800gt. I would love to get this into my pipeline as this shows by spec to be having great potential, but at the moment I cant get anything done both for stability reasons and no standards as used by ther apps from what iv seen so far.
Hi Tecy and welcome to the forums. Just to let you know I have an almost identical system to yours (Vista 64, 3.1 Ghz, 4 GB RAM, 8800GT) and tS 7.6 runs super smooth on my system. As pointed out already, using a reliable Nvidia driver is crucial to getting a smooth performance out of tS and I have noted a remarkable increase in stability since changing to version 175.19.
The only other thing I can think of at the moment is checking your Task Manager to ensure nothing else is eating away at your clock cycles or trying a fresh install.
Please update this thread with your progress as the tS community will endeavour to get you up and running. |
Post by jhowell // Jul 25, 2008, 6:24pm
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jhowell
Total Posts: 400
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Hi Tecy, Iam running Truespace 7.6 on a regular ibm thinkpad laptop with 4 gigs of ram and a horrible video card. But I have no problems. In fact I have now successfuly rendered 100,000 real time display frames (ten thousand at a time) in less than an hour or two. Here is the post I made awhile back about what I did. As mentioned in the post I cleaned up my system by going in to the msconfig and turning off much that my computer and many computers dont need. They are resource hungry and can cause severe slowdowns. I explain it all in my post. I have not had any problems
since. :jumpy:
Here is link ..
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=5370
... playing around with truespace ...
http://www.4webs.biz/truespacestuff/flyindoveclickme.gif (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHRwxhFamoQ&fmt=18)
http://4webs.biz/truespacestuff/june10guyincylinderkickingball.gif |
Post by W!ZARD // Jul 25, 2008, 10:44pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Hi Tecy - it's already been mentioned but I want to reiterate the point about deep hierarchies - one thing I would recommend to all tS newcomers is to read the "Seal Of Good Modeling" chapter at the end of the manual - it's easy to overlook but is potentially very useful (I think it should be at the front of the manual rather than the back!) |
Post by Tecy // Jul 25, 2008, 11:24pm
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Tecy
Total Posts: 3
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Well first thanks to eveyone that has replyed so far, great community here, gives me hope to fix these problems.
I have check the task manager and it shows all to be ok. I will try these beta drivers and see what happends. Odd enougth its very rare I get a crash with Hexagon, iv made full characters in Hexagon will little problems.
I thought I was going mad when I came back to my post, to find the order in reverse lol, kinda made me think that maybe the ts will run this way.:confused:
W!ZARD, thanks, will check this out.
jhowell, good to see that my problem will be sorted soon, sounds like your note book is doing a fine job, thanks.
Breech Block, yea all tasks are looking fine, I keep my systems prety sweet, very rare I have to re-install windows. I will keep this thread updates with all details.
jamesmc, yes mine is overclocked, iv always overlcocked my systems, iv water cooled all my systems iv had during the last 5 years now, this cpu can run happy at 3.61ghz but stability, and noise is priority, my system can barly be heard. Hexagon runs more reliable than Modo, but neither crash that often.
RichLevy, my models are normaly quite faily optimized, Im working on a character at the moment, the base is 1906 polys. I have a few quesrtions about TS about displacment quality but I will leave that for another thread.
Jack Edwards, thanks for the link, will check them out today.
Délé, how do I turn off this bridge, I havent even found the system prefferences to TS yet, the UI is all so different to what im used to. Thanks.
Sorry if iv missed anyone, thanks again. |
Post by jamesmc // Jul 25, 2008, 11:32pm
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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To turn on Bridge, go to worksspace and Settings. See attached image.
For preferences on Model side, it's under the file menu.
For Workspace side,it's under Settings in the panel and other places. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 26, 2008, 5:06am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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To add to what Jamesmc posted, if you can't find the Desktop preferences display you can force it to show by selecting it from the menu that pops up when you click on the icon of the two hammers crossed. |
Post by sj41 // Jul 26, 2008, 7:50am
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sj41
Total Posts: 31
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Jack,
Thanks for the suggestion about hierarchies -- I think. I have a scene from tS6.6 that is VERY slow to respond in 7.6 (minutes). How do I collapse the hierarchies? I can't seem to find anything in the manual. |
Post by trueBlue // Jul 26, 2008, 8:05am
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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In Model load the MeshCollapse plugin.
You can read about this in the Seal of good modeling. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 26, 2008, 10:41am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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You can also use the boolean tools to collapse hierarchies as well. But the advantage to using the meshcollapse plug-in is that it's a one click solution and doesn't modify the geometry. |
Post by sj41 // Jul 26, 2008, 2:58pm
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sj41
Total Posts: 31
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trueBlue & Jack -- thanks for the help. MeshCollapse made an enormous difference in the speed -- much more that I expected. However, shouldn't it be a good thing to keep things organized by using hierarchies? |
Post by trueBlue // Jul 26, 2008, 3:46pm
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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Yes but sparingly. If you read the Seal of good modeling it touches on this as well. |
Post by W!ZARD // Jul 26, 2008, 6:32pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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trueBlue & Jack -- thanks for the help. MeshCollapse made an enormous difference in the speed -- much more that I expected. However, shouldn't it be a good thing to keep things organized by using hierarchies?
It's more efficient to have a shallow hierarchy of very complex objects than it is to have a deep hierarchy of simple objects. When building complex models I often use a deeper and wider hierarchy while building the model and then once construction is finalised I go and Boolean Union as many of the sub-objects together as I can (specially ones that aren't touching as you can Boolean Union those without any problems at all).
As has been said, read the Seal Of Good Modeling chapter. Also this issue of hierarchy management and optimisation is also covered in the "trueSpace And Vue" integration Course. This info is also valid when exporting complex objects to any other application. An efficiently optimised hierarchy can make a massive difference and will allow you to use much bigger models and scenes with greater computational efficiency. |
Post by noko // Jul 27, 2008, 12:02pm
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noko
Total Posts: 684
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Under the boolean tools there is a tool called "Merge Geometry". This will make the objects you selected, can be many (tested up to 50) merge into a single mesh without any booleans.
This can optimize performance in the DX9 real time renderer since each object when rendered (any part) has to make a draw call which is cpu intensive. More or less a DX9 limitation. When you have hundreds of objects on the screen the draw calls can satuate the cpu slowing down the screen update plus limit any other type of cpu task going on like physics. By making one mesh those hundred of draw calls turn into one draw call. This can make a big difference in a complex scene. Of course not everything in a scene should be merged but items that can can really help out in the performance department. |
Post by the3dgm // Jul 28, 2008, 12:01pm
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the3dgm
Total Posts: 6
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First post in years! LOL
I took the plunge today and tried to bring in a Poser figure! Oh NO! OK, turning off the Bridge worked, LUUV and tS still don't understand transparency, but, then they never did.
I'm wondering, is there a way, and this may have already been answered and I missed it, you can lose the Workspace section altogether? It seems to be mostly for animation purposes and I don't do animations. |
Post by splinters // Jul 28, 2008, 12:16pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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First post in years! LOL
I'm wondering, is there a way, and this may have already been answered and I missed it, you can lose the Workspace section altogether? It seems to be mostly for animation purposes and I don't do animations.
Seems a bit like taking the engine out of your new porsche and putting an old ford engine in but....why not simply turn the bridge off, switch to model side and pretend workspace is not there...:D
I don't do animations either...workspace has much more to offer than that.
Also, if you search the forum you might still find the tS6 UI layout I made for workspace...looks like model side but is actually using the workspace engine.
Best of both worlds! |
Post by TomG // Jul 28, 2008, 12:25pm
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Workspace is about so much more than animation. The modeling tools in there are superior to the ones on the Model side, with far better point editing, selections, edge sweeps, dynamic sweeps, real-time interactive booleans, shelling, soft selection, and much more!
HTH!
Tom |
Post by the3dgm // Jul 28, 2008, 2:52pm
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the3dgm
Total Posts: 6
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@splinters, if the Porsche engine dies when you give it the gas and the Ford runs. .
OK, perhaps I haven't spent enough time with it as yet to see the reason for the dual interface system. TomG are you saying that the workspace side can do everything the modeling side can? I don't be able to load anything into the workspace that is not in the modeling side? And if the Workspace is the better modeler, why keep the modeling side?
I hope I'm not sounding like I'm looking for an argument, I'm not, I just failing to see the reason for the dual interface and like functionality.
Also, 99% of what I do is going to have a Poser character in it, and if converting to a .obj and using LUUV to bring it in is going to lock up the program, and it does if the bridge is on, then how much computer does one really need? |
Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 28, 2008, 2:53pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Model side is legacy and will most likely be removed in the next version. |
Post by W!ZARD // Jul 29, 2008, 12:10am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Hi Darrin - we meet again.:)
I think of the Model side of tS as being like the old part of town - over the bridge is workspace, the new part of town. You can get some things from both sides of the bridge - like PE tools but the new side of town has better, more modern facilities. The old side of town still provides certain services that the new side does not yet provide. If you want to smuggle an 'illegal alien' into the city - say a poser babe - then she must come in through the old part of town down LUUV street. Bring her in when the bridge is off. Once she has settled into the old town (save her as a .cob), turn the bridge on and bring her over to the shiney lights of the new part of town where you have access to a range of superior tools that don't exist in the old town - turn the bridge off again once she's there and you can save her as an .RsObj.
FWIW I recommend going to the old part of town only when you have to - treat it like a very big plug-in.
Most 3d folk would prefer to work with one application and renderer at a time - trueSpace gives you access to a wide range of renderers, each with it's own strengths and failings. It's useful to find out what each rendering system does so you can tailor your workflow to suit that particular renderer.
As an example in a recent animation I made about 70% was animated and rendered using the very fast real-time DX9 shaders. The other 30% was animated in workspace but textured and rendered using the LightWorks renderer (on the old side of town).
Obviously this way of looking at tS is a bit simplistic but it helps me to plan my workflow so that I use the bridge - which is actually very useful - as little as possible. Remembering that there are things you can do in the old part of town but not the new and vice versa is helpful to getting the best tS experience.
There are users who stay strictly in the old part of town and users who stay in the new part - for myself I go where the action is - to the place that offers me what I need at the time.
In closing - I've seen lots of folk start from the old part of town, move eventually to the new part and stay there. I've seen people glance quickly at the new part of town, decide it's not for them and go to the old part (I was one of those). Eventually they take another look at the new part and decide that, yes it's different, but it also has much to offer.
HTH |
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