Cloth animation

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Cloth animation // Tech Forum

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Post by Leif // Jul 23, 2008, 8:56pm

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I found this note in manual chapter 10,

Limitations- Cloth simulation cannot be captured to keyframes for rendering of animations.


Could some more information about this be provided?

Post by mrbones // Jul 23, 2008, 9:16pm

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Good question,


I would try hitting the new morph button repeatedly as the cloth sim is running.


Just a hack, but it might work.!

Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 23, 2008, 10:01pm

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Unfortunately vertex animation keyframing is not yet supported. So that means for rendering, you can only use cloth simulation to create static meshes right now.

Basically a workflow would go something like:

1.) Run simulation.
2.) When cloth is positioned as desired, stop simulation
3.) Flatten history on cloth object.

Hope that helps!

Post by Leif // Jul 23, 2008, 10:07pm

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Thank you!

Post by Emma // Jul 23, 2008, 10:19pm

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For the cloth animations I did so far I used a screen capture program at the to get the animations. You just have to prepare the scenery the way that nothing disturbing is in the view (like lights or camara)

Post by TomG // Jul 24, 2008, 4:18am

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Yes, I ran a screen cap to make the cloth animation that will be moved up on site as soon as possible. A KF'ed object can interact with a cloth object, if I remember rightly, but you can't use Render To File to capture it as that only runs the KF's and not the real-time cloth, so screen capturing solves that.


HTH!

Tom

Post by CdeB // Jul 25, 2008, 12:01am

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This is just to clarify, I haven't plunged into using this cloth yet, and I am probably missing something simple here :confused:


But it seems that Cloth cannot be used to generate offline animations (i.e) off line rendering and even get a single instance of cloth requires a little 'editing' re. Jack's post. Of course much has been spoken of the future of realtime rendering, but it seems a little strange that the steps needed (and described by Emma) to get this to work as we have been enticed by the nice video clips in Romans' bulletins..these steps are a little, should we say, against the concept of workflow. Of course, you should never look a gift horse in the mouth...and I feel a little churlish even mentioning it when I have got such a bargin for free...but I think new users coming in with ideas of cloth from other packages are going to be a little surprised/disappointed in this implimentation...


Again, I could have missunderstood, so apologies in advance if I have got the wrong end of the stick!


Hopefully,


Chris

Post by TomG // Jul 25, 2008, 4:55am

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Hi Chris,


Well that's why it's listed in the features as real-time cloth, since that is the only place it can currently be used :) Naturally this provides us with a foundation on which we can build.


It is also a useful feature as it stands, with Jack's extra steps you can easily make towels, bedclothes, clothes, nets, ropes, handerchiefs, napkins, tablecloths, flags, sails, and many other objects that would take MUCH more work to get looking natural than the few steps needed to convert from real-time to static object.


We do also believe real-time scenes are important, and its use there is great (I am reminded of Pirates Of The Burning Sea, where their cloth sim was used to tear up the sails of the ships, so the use in interactive scenes and spaces is definitely valid).


And we were careful to specify it is real-time cloth and not just "cloth" like a general purpose all-encompassing cloth tool.


I'd say the fact it is real-time is actually a plus and not a minus, particularly when you look ahead as to where that could go. It's far easier to work with your cloth when you can see what it is doing in real-time, rather than having to render to let some processing kick in and show you what happens ;)


HTH!

Tom

Post by CdeB // Jul 25, 2008, 5:18am

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Thanks Tom!


On a personal level, with Jack's steps it is all I need at the moment:) and you make a good points about a) it was only advertised as real-time and b) It give you the ability to see the cloth in action (and thus make adjustments quicker) with its real time mode -something I hadn't thought about:o, Nonetheless, knowing in which direction trueSpace is pointing, I would encourage you guys not to think that a non-real time cloth solution is just a backward step, but to implement it too :) -thats all ;)


Chris

Post by TomG // Jul 25, 2008, 6:07am

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Actually the only thing required is to capture the vertex animation into the KF, which is also useful for other things. That would make it not "non-realtime cloth" , but real-time cloth you can record and then use in your animations.


That would be the best of both worlds, in other words. It's real-time until you want it not to be :)


HTH!

Tom

Post by frootee // Jul 25, 2008, 6:13am

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I would say that is a very much wanted feature Tom. :)


Vertex Keyframing. It has applications beyond cloth.

Post by kena // Jul 25, 2008, 6:54am

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like object morphing!!! definitely put that on the list as a wanted feature!

Vertex animation

Post by TomG // Jul 25, 2008, 7:22am

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You can use morphs to do that already :) You can vertex edit, record the morph, then blend between different morphs, and KF the results.


HTH!

Tom


PS - the difference here is that the amount of the morphs is what is being KF'ed, not the actual vertex edits themselves (which are stored "inside" the morphs). That's why this is possible, but cloth recording is not.

Post by ed_baker // Jul 29, 2008, 3:23pm

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Well,


Personally I think that real time cloth is fairly useless. Seeing it update in real time is great and all, but I thought that was the point of the improved physics engine that was put into TS7 was that you could have real time physics interaction and then record the keyframes of that action??


I don't see any real benefit to not being able to capture the KFs.


Disappointed and yes it was marketed as Real-time cloth, but I just have to admit that to me it is falling short. It would be a different story if there were no physics KF capture, then it would make more sense.


Ed

Post by Jack Edwards // Jul 29, 2008, 7:32pm

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It's still useful for still frame work. Takes a lot of the work out of making boat sails, table cloths, curtains, drapes, etc.

Also Tom has said in other posts here that it will be keyframable once vertex animation is implemented. So just have a little patience ;)

Post by ed_baker // Jul 30, 2008, 2:32am

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It's still useful for still frame work. Takes a lot of the work out of making boat sails, table cloths, curtains, drapes, etc.


Also Tom has said in other posts here that it will be keyframable once vertex animation is implemented. So just have a little patience ;)


Oh I have patience, and will wait it out, but still why put it in there if it doesn't work as a majority of people need. I think the lack of vertex animation a big miss for an upgrade that was being hailed as a big leap in animation?


It wouldn't be that big of a deal if the new KFE cold tanslate the information into the old KFE or vise versa. I understand this is difficult or even impossible with the new architecture and that's why the 6.0 part of the program is still in there.


I just gotta point out that the cloths, curtains, boat sails, etc can already be made with the CK Game Factory plugin and a couple others that have been working since around version 5.0. So it's nice that it's now implemented somewhat, but would rather have a full working feature thant just a hint of more to come.


Ed

Post by mrbones // Jul 30, 2008, 2:57pm

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how about recording a workspace animation?

Post by Johny // Jul 31, 2008, 7:46am

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just folow this link: http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=6043

Post by W!ZARD // Aug 1, 2008, 5:57am

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that was being hailed as a big leap in animation?I share your grief about not being able to Key Frame the cloth sim (yet). I was momentarily disappointed by this myself.


However it seems to me that fixing a vast number of bugs in the bones, implementing morphs where none existed and and seriously upgrading the weight painting options could rightfully be called "a big leap in animation". In fact any one of these things would count as a big improvement to me so I see I've got 3 big leaps at least.


Re cloth simulation - although unfortunately it can't be key framed yet you can still use it in immersive 3d shared space settings, so while it's uses are currently limited it is far from being useless.
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