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Modelling damage states for objects/ vehicles
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Modelling damage states for objects/ vehicles // Game Development
Post by The Master Elite // Sep 9, 2008, 11:04am
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The Master Elite
Total Posts: 107
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Wort. One of the key concepts of modern day game development in the area of 3D art is Damage states, something that tends to contribute to the realism of the environment. So I made this thread to make observation and to write a bit on the subject, as well as learn what others may have found themselves.
One method that is used for hard surfaces is transitional morphs/ blends. |
Post by robert // Sep 9, 2008, 11:38am
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robert
Total Posts: 609
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You can use the new target morphs system implemented in the workspace (farthest right group at the bottom most icon when expanded in case you weren't sure) that will help with point edit things like dents. From there you can even attach sliders to specific dent areas and can have different states of damage from slight dent to almost completely imploded.;)
You can also use the new Boolean operations system and have real time subtraction to create holes in the surface without having to have two separate meshes.:)
Does that help at all, or do you need specifics? |
Post by The Master Elite // Sep 10, 2008, 4:33am
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The Master Elite
Total Posts: 107
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I am aware of morphs and where they are placed in the workspace...:)
...but there are other ways of creating damage states as well. The question is how. In Halo, for example, most vehicles end up blowing up into many separate parts...also, I am exploring the possibilities of Terrain damage...such as in urban areas... |
Post by TomG // Sep 10, 2008, 4:49am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Hmm lots of different ways I could think of doing it.
1. Multiple versions of the model for different damage
2. The morph approach already mentioned
3. Procedurally animating the parts flying apart in the game engine (though each part would still look modeled and solid)
4. Doing 3, but adding in some new parts that looked like messed up things, specially modeled to look like exploding parts
5. Only doing the parts from 4, and not from 3 (ie no ordinary model parts flying around). May include slicing up the model into "bits" using booleans or point editing tools, and then making those bits fly apart
6. Masking transitions from solid model to flying parts etc using explosions and similar
7. Procedurally slicing the mesh up in the game engine, using it to make the polygons fly apart, or to do some slicing like in 5 but this time randomly and only done in the game engine (no slicing in your modeler required). This could also include procedural dents and damage too for the earlier stages of damage. This may also involve physics engines that run on the GPU, eg you tell the game engine "this object is wood" or "this object is metal" and then it procedural calculates how it will break. This is increasingly common now that processing power is available for such things, and of course removes the need to pre-model the damage.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by The Master Elite // Sep 10, 2008, 5:23am
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The Master Elite
Total Posts: 107
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Great, Tom...now we're getting something...
...but now I have no further use for you...
http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Combat/enlevement-ninja-897.gif |
Post by robert // Sep 10, 2008, 8:58am
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robert
Total Posts: 609
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I like the last idea, only question si how to implement it. Scripting yes, but very robust scripting if you want it to run in tS. If you have a PhysX card there are some tutorials I have that might help with this kind of thing. |
Post by The Master Elite // Sep 15, 2008, 8:29am
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The Master Elite
Total Posts: 107
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A side note...according to todays standards for game development, a First Person Shooter character mesh now can be anywhere from 8000 to 15000 polygons! Weapon meshes can now be 4000 polys as well...I don't even know what to do with so much detail!
I need high-poly modelling lessons...LOL |
Post by tamtam // Nov 4, 2008, 9:58am
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tamtam
Total Posts: 213
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@The Master Elite - Where did you find that information (about making the high-poly models for games)? I always, and still do think that the maximum number of polygons is 3000 - 4000 for a character.
But then why would you need that many polys for an FPS character... you don't see the character in an FPS game, the character is always behind the camera or at the exact position of the camera.
I won't believe it until I see the site where you got that info, unless this is a joke (about numbers of polygons for games). Is this a joke (not the part about modeling object damage states)?
Edit: I'm confused. |
Post by TomG // Nov 4, 2008, 10:36am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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4000 would be VERY low for a character in a game these days. Note that a character needn't be the main character, it can be the ones you are meant to shoot :) So in an FPS, it means the other "bad guys" you are running into. In a multiplayer FPS of course, you have a model too even if you can't see it.
Some games are played over the shoulder too so you can see your character (eg Gears of War, Resident Evil 4), of course they are no longer technically FPS as you are no longer in First Person, but this over the shoulder view is not uncommon
3,000 to 4,000 would be about right for games 3 years ago. Tech has come a long way, and consoles and PCs now have much more power, and pump out much more detail in their characters.
Interesting link
http://nsider2.com/forums/Polygon-Count-list-t165375.html
HTH!
Tom |
Post by Eagle // Nov 4, 2008, 11:51am
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Eagle
Total Posts: 221
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I totaly agree with Tom, my latest toon in Witch Gate is 6900 polygons and it
runs very smooth. If fact its too fast, I'm going to have to slow it down to
make it look more natural :D
Always~
Vickie ;) |
Post by tamtam // Nov 4, 2008, 5:03pm
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tamtam
Total Posts: 213
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Wow! This is awsome! Thanks Tom, and Eagle! I checked out your link Tom, and when I saw 10,000 polygons for 1 character... Wow, I never thought that could be possible with computers these days. It's like i'm in a scifi movie, but it's really happening!
I now know I can make game characters on my fast computer, which is made for intense graphics applications. Game characters with over 4000 polygons sounds great!
So this wasn't a joke, and 8000 to 15000 polygons sounds like I could add way more detail to my characters, and other game art.
Back to the original subject: That could be done manually (moving vertices in and out), or a combination of booleans, and moving vertices, and using textures for however you want those damage states to be. |
Post by The Master Elite // Nov 19, 2008, 12:09pm
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The Master Elite
Total Posts: 107
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Wort.
...yeah, meshes are very detailed these days. Crysis's alien meshes go from 12.5K to 45K! The character mesh itself is about 16500 polys alone! That should be a good explanation as to why my PC slows up in the later levels even on medium settings..:P
...yes, Gears is quite detailed...I wish I could get my hands on some of those meshes...preferably ALL of them. Halo 3 meshes would be nice too...alas, I doubt I'll see any of them for a while. :(
Nonetheless, I have found that in spite of this wonderful new high polycount, I am occassionally stuck over budget in certain meshes...such as my mech on the Image Gallery, which is about 15.8K polys. Of course, once I optimize it a bit, it will most likely go down to 14K or less. Be sure to get rid of as many uneccessary verts and polys as possible. It works wonders and gives gamers more Frames per Second. |
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