Should there be a Game Development section in the Forums?

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These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.

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Should there be a Game Development section in the Forums? // Game Development

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Post by TomG // Aug 5, 2008, 11:17am

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It would be open to any game engine etc. I was just mentioning the one I am working on now as a prime example of what goes in a game forum but doesnt go in anywhere else on these forums, to illustrate how the need for a game forum exists, and doesnt involve posting UV tips into it etc :) The same things on formats, settings, imports, code, etc will apply for any game engine, I just can't give specific examples as I'm not working with those engines at this moment :)


HTH!

Tom

Post by W!ZARD // Aug 5, 2008, 11:22am

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well the poll results make it pretty clear that the majority of folk are in favour - I can't argue with that!


I'm just pleased to see that there is at least one other person who thinks along similar lines to me.:D


To all you gamers out there - all the best and good luck with your new forum.

Post by TheLion36 // Aug 5, 2008, 11:29am

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I'm a bit divided on the subject to be honest... Being a (casual) game developer myself part of me thinks it might be interesting, however I do wonder if the modelling / animation questions can't just be processed in the normal forums.


When I read through all the posts mentioning things like code for reading in a DirectX X file into XNA etc, I start wondering what that still has to do with TrueSpace. If people have trouble with the coding part then there's other forums to deal with that sort of stuff, like gamedev.net or a more XNA specific forum/mailinglist.


I voted "I'm fine either way" but with concerns... I think W!zard might be right that it could divide the forums. People who do exclusive game modelling and/or game development might clique in there and you could get confuscation of usefull threads. (ie. a thread with tips head modelling ends up in the game development forum).


@JimB, if we do get a forum I also sure hope it won't be XNA exclusive, not a big fan of XNA myself since its system requirements are too high for a start and it uses .NET and for games I certainly prefer freedom and to be as fast as I can. I'm more of a C++ man myself. :)

Post by TomG // Aug 5, 2008, 11:56am

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Answer was already given that it will of course not be XNA exclusive.


HTH!

Tom

Post by Délé // Aug 5, 2008, 1:30pm

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There are many forum categories right now. These don't seem to divide anyone. Why would a Gaming category be any different? If I want to ask a scripting question, which most people don't give a hoot about, I can post it in the scriptorium and other scriptors can quickly see it and respond. It doesn't separate us from the others on the forums. Anyone interested in scripting can check it out if they want to. It just helps logically organize the forums. It helps us know what to expect when we look at the threads in each forum.

Post by KeithC // Aug 5, 2008, 4:35pm

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- the only real difference between tS content built for games and tS content built for other purposes is the necessary knowledge of file format conversions to various game engines. Anything else to do with Game Content is applicable to any other sort of content.

Not so. Low poly modeling is an art form in itself; you've got to get the best look out of a model with much fewer polys available for you to use. Then you've got to think about the whole scene/level, and account for a poly limit as a whole. Then there's the whole LOD (Level of Detail) thing to consider.


Different engines have different ways that they account for multiple textures (diffuse, bump, normal, specular, etc.), as well as using different formats (which sometimes require workarounds to get them to work properly). Animating something in TS, and then rendering the animation out is one thing.....having that animation transfer to a specific game engine is something else entirely.


Having the GameSpace Forums available before at least allowed Developers a place to assemble and ask questions/show off work, etc. By limiting the Forums, you would be shutting out a MAJOR crowd of potential users....and therefore limit people moving to TS as a viable Game Dev tool.


You can't compare a Game Dev Board to Vray, Lightworks, animating, etc. Game Dev encompasses much more than those single processes.


I'm glad there is alot of support for this. The more plugin/export devs that come on board, the more TS will be seen as a force in the Game Dev world.


-Keith

Post by transient // Aug 5, 2008, 5:59pm

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I don't really understand the objections to this idea, as you are essentially moving the gamespace forums closer to home. There were plenty of interesting topics and projects discussed there that never made these forums.


It's win-win imo.

Post by moogaloonie // Aug 5, 2008, 7:16pm

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It would be a great place to discuss engines that use Collada, such as Profenix's S2 and Shiva.


Did trueSpace generate any excitement among the XNA crowd?


I think KeithC is simply saying that there are too many areas of game development for just one catch-all section? The two I'd suggest: Low poly modeling in tS, and (not necessarily game specific) import/export with tS. It'd be nice to have all of the import/export discussion in one place, and we should expect a lot more of those questions to be asked now.

Post by W!ZARD // Aug 5, 2008, 7:53pm

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I'm not here to argue with anyone or convince anyone - I'm merely answering as best I can the question posed by the title of this thread. Furthermore, I'm not objecting to a Gamer specific forum but pointing out possible drawbacks to the idea to raise awareness and hopefully minimise any possible negative impact.


The GameSpace forum has been mentioned and this is a case in point - I've never been to the GameSpace forum as it's focus is on game development - it was essentially a separate community to the trueSpace forums. This is the type of division I'm talking about.


I'm all for welcoming GameSpacers into the larger community - I also think there are potential and unseen drawbacks to creating (or recreating) a separate subgroup.


Délé mentions the scriptorium which is an excellent case in point - I can't remember the last time I went to that forum - and I have no idea if I missed out on potential useful information or missed out meeting and interacting with someone who may only visit the Scriptorium.


KeithC implies I'm advocating limiting the forums but my aim is to unlimit them. Calling this group of tS users Gamer Developers and this group of tS users as Scriptors creates limits by definition - and undeniably this has benefits and positive attributes. I am seeking to point out that there are potential negatives as well.


@Transient - you say you don't really understand the objections to the idea.

Are you saying that I'm not being clear enough?


Speaking for myself I'm particularly interested in game development although I am interested in game developers and what I can potentially learn from them. How much easier is it for me to meet these people if they are a part of the general community than it is if they are all huddled in one game developers corner? I don't know the answer to that question but I do think it is worth asking.


At the end of the day the Game Developers know far better than me how their requirements can best be served. Personally however I have an inbuilt distrust of practices which build segregation. Gamers should not have to it at the back of the bus IMO.

Post by W!ZARD // Aug 5, 2008, 8:04pm

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It would be a great place to discuss engines that use Collada, such as Profenix's S2 and Shiva.Undoubtedly - but what about a secific thread or series of threads in a more general forum where it is more open to the general population? These topics can be discussed (or ignored if that is the individuals choice) just as easily in the general Tech Forum as in a specialised forum where they may catch the interest of none gamers.

Not long ago Tom was talking about using tS content on his Xbox - I'm not a game developer but this was still interesting reading for me - if it was seperated away on a specific gaming thread I would probably have missed it.

I think KeithC is simply saying that there are too many areas of game development for just one catch-all section? The two I'd suggest: Low poly modeling in tS, and (not necessarily game specific) import/export with tS. It'd be nice to have all of the import/export discussion in one place, and we should expect a lot more of those questions to be asked now.This is sort of my point - lets put technical trueSpace issues into the Tech Forum. I'm not into gaming but I do want to know about Low Poly Modeling and other issues which confront gamers - I'm more likely to connect with these people if their conversations were part of the general community rather than stuck off in a side room.

Post by transient // Aug 5, 2008, 8:55pm

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I think this would also be a vote of thanks for the gamespace users that stuck with the app and now find themselves without a community. It could potentially be a very busy place once word gets around that 7.6 exports dx.


Overall a good idea KeithC.:cool:

Post by JimB // Aug 5, 2008, 8:56pm

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If as TomG's post on the gameSpace forums states:-

As a result of these changes, the gameSpace website is no longer available, and gameSpace Light is no longer available. We will keep these gameSpace forums open for a few weeks, but the intention is we will close these and move all forum postings to the main Caligari / trueSpace forums

http://forums.caligari.com/gameSpace/showthread.php?t=3328

There will be a need for seperate catagory to store the posts. :D

Jim

Post by moogaloonie // Aug 6, 2008, 12:40am

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If there is a sub-forum that someone doesn't go to often, then it is likely not in their interest at that time. There could be subforums for everything from using the link editor to physics. Having it all in one place as it is now bumps topics to previous pages in a matter of hours, meaning more searching for everyone. A subforum dedicated to Import/Export might end up having only a few very informative stickied posts once the topic had been thoroughly addressed. Same with low poly modeling; as soon as a few good tutorials get stickied, there'd be less chance of a user needing to ask for help. As it stands now stickying every important thread for every important topic would mean the entire first few pages of the forum would be stickies. Seems silly to have 500,000 new users discussing every possible aspect of using tS in the same forum.

Post by Steinie // Aug 6, 2008, 12:48am

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I can never understand all the yacking that takes place in a poll which requires one mouse click.

Let's let the quantity of votes determine the outcome not the quantity of words.

OK I'm getting my coffee now.

Post by transient // Aug 6, 2008, 1:23am

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I think the result was a foregone conclusion many posts ago.;)

Post by KeithC // Aug 6, 2008, 1:26am

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How much easier is it for me to meet these people if they are a part of the general community than it is if they are all huddled in one game developers corner?

I would say that it would be much easier to find topics on game development in a centralized game dev specific board....versus going through the many posts of general chat. Your segregated "back of the bus" analogy makes zero sense, Wizard.


In the past I've had very little feedback on my game art in these forums, which was discouraging. Had it been a general render or model, I might have gotten more response.


At any rate, it looks like this is going to be a reality despite Wizard's reservations (I appreciate your dialogue though ;))...which means more work for Tom. :)


-Keith

Post by RichLevy // Aug 6, 2008, 2:01am

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It will be interesting to see how this evolves... I think anything that encourages new user's to post and become part of the community of TrueSpace is good.The broader a range of user's skillsets and talents will help TrueSpace become a better application in the end. :D And it's always fun making fun of the newguys :D:jumpy:


Sorry, I'm leaving now.:cool::cool::cool:


Rich

Post by nowherebrain // Aug 6, 2008, 2:14am

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I don't see why there was not one before, YES.;)

Post by TomG // Aug 6, 2008, 4:21am

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I dont think the gamers will be separated or huddled together - just because a forum exists for topics specific to gaming doesnt mean they won't be taking part in all the boards as well.


The idea is not to force people into a category and place, but to sensibly index the topics and threads. The people belong to the whole forum and should be posting everywhere, but placing each posting in a category that will make it easy for people to decide to view or not.


BTW I just use New Posts, which shows me all new posts from all categories. I never read by category and just use the thread title to see if its one I should dive into. That way I miss nothing of interest - but when I make a new post, I do want to put it in the "most sensible" category.


The idea was approved, so we'll see about getting it set up soon :)


HTH!

Tom

Post by kena // Aug 6, 2008, 7:42am

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and good ol' norm put up game forums now.

Post by KeithC // Aug 7, 2008, 5:32am

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Yep; I'm sure many of us appreciate the new Forum section. Thanks for all those who participated in this discussion! :)


-Keith

Post by Steinie // Aug 7, 2008, 5:59am

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I don't have any interest in Game Development myself however those guys and gals definitely deserved their own Thread. I'm glad they can now all meet in one place again. Plus they will get much more exposure here too. I'm sure that will be one hot tamale of a thread!;)
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