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Maybe Roman was right after all...
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Maybe Roman was right after all... // Roundtable
Post by splinters // Mar 26, 2009, 11:04am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Just opened the latest issue of 3D World and wondered why a picture of tS had crept into a feature on 3D Max 2010.
Had to do a double take, it was a small screen grab but looked just like tS. They were harping on about the amazing new viewport that allowed you to preview your renders at almost the same quality as the final render.
So, maybe Roman is more visionary than some give him credit for eh? |
Post by mrbones // Mar 26, 2009, 11:06am
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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Double Eh!
Yes, He is . |
Post by TomG // Mar 26, 2009, 11:14am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Hmm, deja vu! Sounds like when tS was first to offer solid view in real-time for modeling, and everyone else was "But why? Wireframes are all that you need for modeling with, they are just fine!"
How many apps these days don't let you model in a solid view mode?
Where tS leads, others will follow ;)
Tom |
Post by prodigy // Mar 26, 2009, 12:07pm
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Im agree TS was very visionary in many aspects..
The problem is as soon TS release something cool, others implement the same thing with much more features, more professional oriented..
Imagine that Max will have RT Dof, RT Motion Blur for example...:o and Vray will have Realtime GI, Go figure..
Sadly here, no matter who punch first, is the power of your punch what it count.
If truespace constantly maintain a quality lvl, adding needed features, will be a very robust formula for professionals.. That's in my oppinion is why truespace is not watched as a professional 3d tool by the 3d community..
So this are very good news for Max community and i doubt this cares to caligari cos i believe this is not where microsoft is looking..
Autodesk loves professionals.
MS love masses. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Mar 26, 2009, 12:27pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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I'm also noticing that Adobe CS4 seems to have adopted a lot of the interface conventions used in trueSpace. It's almost erie... :cool: |
Post by transient // Mar 26, 2009, 12:32pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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So, maybe Roman is more visionary than some give him credit for eh?
Except the the 3dsmax shaders are actually used as a preview for rendering.
I mentioned a long time ago on these forums that if the real-time renderer was an allegory for vray it may actually be useful. Got my head bitten off as usual. My fault, I guess, for not singing with the choir. But I persist nevertheless.;)
Even at this late stage there's still an opportunity to take the lead guys........a real-time renderman could rock the industry. You already have the backbone of a 3delight exporter handed to you on a platter.
The sad fact is that this "vision" has been coming for years. Fry render announced a new preview feature in this vein months ago. Lightworks developed cg shaders years ago as well (why wasn't this implemented in ts?).
I'm sorry, but there's no vision here imo, just a wasted opportunity to take it to the big guys. The real-time viewport in truespace is pretty, but then so is every other real-time package out there at the moment.
This "new" max feature really has nothing in common with truespace except that it uses shaders. I feel that Caligari patting itself on the back for this is very unwarranted. The fact that yet again truespace had a potential winning feature, and then let someone else come in and take the glory, is a bad sign I would think. If I was Caligari I would be kicking myself.
Maybe one day someone at Caligari will start reading my posts and then perhaps the real innovation can start.;)
On a brighter note, full credit to autodesk. They may not be the first to invent or implement new features, but when they do they make sure they are relevant and powerful. Well, most of the time...... |
Post by mrbones // Mar 26, 2009, 12:38pm
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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Love will keep us together!:banana:
Autodesk loves professionals.
MS love masses. |
Post by prodigy // Mar 26, 2009, 12:41pm
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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"The fact that yet again truespace had a potential winning feature, and then let someone else come in and take the glory, is a bad sign I would think. If I was Caligari I would be kicking myself."
Exactly ;)
TrueBone
All you need is love.. ;) |
Post by RAYMAN // Mar 26, 2009, 12:45pm
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Fact is that the industry is adopting realtime render and mostly the car industry ... but its not Truespace its a much more expensive but quite
incredible realtime gi solution called Hypershot from Bunkspeed.
When things take the lead and are usefull they are taken up by the industry
Same now with t spline technology and the bridge between nurbs (cad) and poly tools......;) |
Post by prodigy // Mar 26, 2009, 12:54pm
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Ha sorry .. i miss one important feature on Max,
Ambient occlusion.. ;)
Here is a link posted by parva.. showing this in action..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Bajid_n4oY
http://area.autodesk.com/index.php/blogs_ken/blog_detail/announcement_3ds_max_design_2010/ |
Post by transient // Mar 26, 2009, 12:54pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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Hypeshot is really cool, but it still takes time to render. I also don't think it does gi, my impression was that it is an ibl renderer for product visulaization.....It needs hdr maps with a matching backplate (I may be wrong about this).
If I was going to play the devil's advocate I would suggest that if Caligari have decided to drop raytracing for good, then I agree that hypershot functionality would be something to aim for. |
Post by RAYMAN // Mar 26, 2009, 1:00pm
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Hypeshot is really cool, but it still takes time to render. I also don't think it does gi, my impression was that it is an ibl .
http://www.bunkspeed.com/hypershot/features/
No its Gi see the features tab !
Hypershot is both a realtime solution AND a very fast render solution you can switch between both worlds...;) |
Post by transient // Mar 26, 2009, 1:29pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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Yeah, it looks good. :cool: |
Post by v3rd3 // Mar 26, 2009, 4:06pm
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v3rd3
Total Posts: 388
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Roman has always impressed me as a forward thinking individual and mimicry is the greatest form of praise in this regard.
Like all, I hope that the future vision of TS is focussed on success and that this success includes the animators and illustrators among us as well as those of us interested in sharing the MS vision. |
Post by nowherebrain // Mar 26, 2009, 5:42pm
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nowherebrain
Total Posts: 1062
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When did this become a question...3D viewport/RT render is great stuff...undeniable, BUT....the fact that tools are incomplete is the problem...coupled with no workspace renderer(not RT, production). This is 3D after all...we are eons from RT movie quality. Movies etc will still be rendered the old fashioned way for years to come...I would even say the next decade possibly. These are the issues with tS...never had anything to do with the viewport stuff. |
Post by prodigy // Mar 26, 2009, 6:10pm
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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I must say also, Congratulations for the developers.. one thing is say, Do this. and other quite different is make it real.. ;)
So, Amazing job for all those devs involved..:) |
Post by mrbones // Mar 26, 2009, 6:30pm
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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I agree the tools are somewhat incomplete, but could be for the best, not to know where to go until the industry switches to something different and unique, actually might be poised in an even better position to capitalize 3d success. Because maybee once your vested into a development cycle you run the risk of being obsolete by the time the programming is completed.
THe cool thing about TrueSpace software right(Not Caligari) Is all the goodies that genius come up with, they are modular, which means the program can remain uncomplete until the right innovation presents itself, Thats when Caligari erm Microsoft could throw all the cards in, and let the cat out of the bag and buckle down on squashing the bugs...
I dont think we are that far behind yet, but it might be getting there...Although I think I know a couple more than most being a developer.:p
Am I a trueSpace Hater? I cant be really. Roman and Caligari have been true to me and have always made me feel right at home in 3D land.:jumpy:
Just need a little patience.... ahh if only TruePlay, if only trueplay....talk about innovative, did you folks see animeeple? its simply amazing.
Further thoughts reveal what I think might be some of Caligaris problem. One is that of image, In this day and age you have to be nimble enough to change things like websites updated links, logos and font types. (I have no room to talk) I think they are just a tiny tiny TINY bit unfitting, but I have to say that I dnt mean to sound critical or negative, I am not to judging, thats there own perogative.
If I did run the company I would be thinking about a BOLD new change, THats whats coming I think. Choose wisely.
When did this become a question...3D viewport/RT render is great stuff...undeniable, BUT....the fact that tools are incomplete is the problem...coupled with no workspace renderer(not RT, production). This is 3D after all...we are eons from RT movie quality. Movies etc will still be rendered the old fashioned way for years to come...I would even say the next decade possibly. These are the issues with tS...never had anything to do with the viewport stuff. |
Post by parva // Mar 26, 2009, 11:54pm
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parva
Total Posts: 822
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I agree with transients first post.
Will be interesting to see if these "features" have any use or if it's just a gimmick. There 3ds has a larger user base will we know for sure.
Realtime viewport was used since years as preview and like nowherebrain said, it's still far from the results a software renderer creates but I think thats not the point (at least not what I would had in mind).
The market to show people your product in realtime other as still image or as animation is there, plus the advantage over these both output types. But that needs an additional fileformat. Things like SSAO or fancy shaders have imho no use in a program like 3ds which is still a tool to "make" content not "show" content.
One reason why I personally still search an authoring software that is ease to handle but productive. Ironic that even in the current state I couldn't find any better alternative as truespace yet, at least if you don't want to be a programmer :D |
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