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Trying to achieve this lighting
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Trying to achieve this lighting // Roundtable
Post by davidjohnson // Mar 25, 2009, 2:27pm
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davidjohnson
Total Posts: 169
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This isn't a perfect example of what I am looking for, but
http://www.mr-cad.com/mrcad-blog/pillow-1.jpg
or
http://www.wazgrafix.com/images/wyr_building02_full.jpg
It is not photorealistic to me, but has a grey, dirty kind of look. I am not sure if that makes sense. I also really like the white background where it sits on, it really look like a 3d model, but somewhat almost real at the same time... |
Post by Jack Edwards // Mar 25, 2009, 2:48pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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YafaRay can do both of these relatively easily.
The first one with a Sun light with a narrow angle setting.
The second one is background lighting and can be achieved by using Photon Mapping and clicking the "Use Background" option. You will also want to try IBL/HDRI for even more "realistic" results. |
Post by davidjohnson // Mar 25, 2009, 2:57pm
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davidjohnson
Total Posts: 169
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What is exactly the background in the second one?
Also, I rendering in the 6.6 portion of 7.6, so maybe that available there? |
Post by Jack Edwards // Mar 25, 2009, 2:59pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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No the Yafaray add-on only works in the workspace side of TS.
The background in the second one looks to be a solid gray. You could achieve a similar effect in Model side using IBL with a gray bitmap. Note that the model is sitting on an "infinity curve" so you don't see the background in the image. |
Post by davidjohnson // Mar 25, 2009, 3:01pm
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davidjohnson
Total Posts: 169
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Jack, it is ironic that the exact look I am going for is in your icon/avatar.
Could you give me lesson on how to use IBL? Does the grey bitmap have to be a background texture on something? |
Post by Jack Edwards // Mar 25, 2009, 3:04pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Ah well my avatar was done with VRay using a Spotlight and GI... so unless you have VRay... ;)
I don't use Model side so maybe one of the other guys can give you some pointers on doing IBL with Lightworks. |
Post by RAYMAN // Mar 25, 2009, 3:23pm
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Ok in the meantime I redone the basic shape of it and the lighting for you
Note I made a HDR material in the garage under the thread studio hdr
and the one you would use is in the package lightent you load that into your ibl chanel and
that should make you going
Peter
Heres the Hdr link
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=5052
Heres the special package
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=5052 |
Post by davidjohnson // Mar 25, 2009, 3:48pm
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davidjohnson
Total Posts: 169
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So do I use a single light for this? Sorry I don't know much or anything about IBL lighting or where or HOW to use it. I downloaded the links for the HDR files but again, I am unsure of where to use them. I don't mean to sound like a lost puppy, but I guess I am... |
Post by RAYMAN // Mar 25, 2009, 3:55pm
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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you load it into glaobal enviroment map tab that you find when you rightclick on the siny sphere symbol and the second tab you set to panorama.
what you downloaded was a zipped folder withh all the lightent hdr´s you need to unzip that first and load lightent nr 2. ! The screenshot shows everything even the object that I loaded with the luuv plugin !
The map is actually the light you can ad some other ones but you dont have to it is all in that hdr map !
Peter |
Post by spacekdet // Mar 25, 2009, 5:52pm
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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Since you are asking about IBL I'll cover a few of the basics.
IBL= Image Based Light. tS uses the color and intensity of an image as a light to illuminate your object/scene.
HDRI is a souped up, newer method of doing the same using a special type of file rather than a typical jpg/tga/ etc image.
tS's representation of an IBL is a ring, but it's actually an invisible sphere with local lights distributed at the vertices. These lights get their color and saturation from the image you specify. Increasing the 'IBL resolution' parameter effectively is increasing the number of vertices in this invisible sphere and thus increases the number of lights. This results in softer shadows, longer render times, and finer color distribution of the image used for lighting.
You can also use an IBL without an image- only setting the color and intensity. Note: once assigned, you cannot un-assign an image. You can reassign another image, but if you want a 'blank' IBL you'll have to start over with a new one.
Some of other parameters to note are:
'show environment' - if this box is checked the IBL will be visible in the render- you will see it's spherical shape and the texture assigned to it. This may be desirable if you want to use the IBL to also create the background image. If the environment is visible, also create a camera that you will render from and make sure that it is inside the circumference of the IBL. If the camera is outside it will only show a nice view of the outside of the rendered IBL.
You can scale the light as large or as small as you want.
To make the IBL light the scene but not be visible, uncheck the 'show environment'.
Intensity- right clicking the slider will bring up a panel that you can input higher values. The slider tops out at '2' and it's often preferable to numerically set this higher.
'below ground' -if checked it also samples parts of the IBL sphere that lie beneath the ground plane.
U & V repeats- controls how many times the image repeats across the IBL sphere.
What kind of image works best? Lots of options... if you want to use it as a background, you'll want a large, high resolution image, seamless if possible.
You may want repeats set to 2 so that the image isn't stretched all the way around the sphere. Having it seamless helps mask the edge.
If just using the IBL to light the scene, simple gradients work great.
One other note, IBLs tend to have a 'flat' light- shiny objects will look better if you also use another type of light (local, spot, etc) in addition to the IBL. The additional light will bring out the specular highlights in any shiny/reflective objects in the scene.
More info in the image below:
19146 |
Post by TomG // Mar 26, 2009, 1:36am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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IBLs can be good, but in general are superceded by HDRI which is generally better. I'd go the HDRI route myself in this case.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by splinters // Mar 26, 2009, 3:01am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Jacks avatar (and what you seem to be striving for if you want it plain and untextured) is commonly called a 'clay render' so maybe googling that will yield even further info. |
Post by Steinie // Mar 26, 2009, 3:13am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Yes you see this in modeling contest where no additional texture or material was applied. |
Post by transient // Mar 26, 2009, 12:45pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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@ Spacecdet - Interesting tutorial.
I never really "got" the old school ibl light, but it is actually very useful. It's not as easy to set up as hdr or as fast, but in some ways it's more flexible, especially as a plain skylight (unlike the environment map it can be rendered as a separate light pass).
Thanks.:) |
Post by prodigy // Mar 26, 2009, 12:50pm
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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Remember IBL is Raytraced, HDRI is Raymap, so IBL consume much more resources but the final result will be much more sharpen..
I used (in the old times) Ibl as a way to get GI.
Do you know IBL was implemented in TS by Simon? hehehe
I love this guy! :D |
Post by transient // Mar 26, 2009, 12:57pm
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transient
Total Posts: 977
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Remember IBL is Raytraced, HDRI is Raymap, so IBL consume much more resources but the final result will be much more sharpen..
I didn't know that, interesting. |
Post by RAYMAN // Mar 26, 2009, 1:20pm
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Remember IBL is Raytraced, HDRI is Raymap, so IBL consume much more resources but the final result will be much more sharpen..
:D
I thoght you could switch between mapped and raytraced shadows ?:confused: |
Post by davidjohnson // Mar 26, 2009, 2:52pm
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davidjohnson
Total Posts: 169
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How do I know how many lights to add? Do I just add a spotlight? An infinite light? |
Post by prodigy // Mar 26, 2009, 4:15pm
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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I thoght you could switch between mapped and raytraced shadows ?:confused:
Hay.. yes.. i miss that setting :( sorry my fault..
that's the problem when you stop using model side..
Sorry guys
ho god.. WS is so minimalist :rolleyes: |
Post by davidjohnson // Mar 30, 2009, 1:19pm
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davidjohnson
Total Posts: 169
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I can't seem to render the scene out. It just hangs when I try... |
Post by Jack Edwards // Mar 30, 2009, 2:01pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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David, what's your memory usage when it tries to render? Could it be that you don't have enough RAM? |
Post by TomG // Mar 30, 2009, 2:45pm
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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And if you use mapped shadows with an IBL, it can take some time to calculate those, depending on your setting - during that time, you won't see any rendering or any update on what tS is doing, it will appear to be frozen for a bit.
Let us know what settings you are using for the scene (perhaps post the scene with the objects removed, so you're not giving away the objects), as well as letting us know your system specs like memory as Jack was asking about, and we'll see what might be going on!
Thanks!
Tom |
Post by spacekdet // Mar 30, 2009, 5:08pm
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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Mapped shadows with an IBL is most definitely not recommended.
Preferable to use raytraced shadows. If not smooth enough increase the IBL resolution.
Or, as suggested, give HDRI/ GI a whirl.
More info on what lighting you are currently trying will help in troubleshooting the hanging issue. |
Post by Nez // Mar 31, 2009, 12:09am
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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I have to admit, I preferred to use mapped shadows with IBL as usually had to really crank up the settings on raytraced shadows to get them smooth enough - both routes being pretty darn slow...
I'm generally liking HDRI in 7.6 - but have similar problems - raytraced shadows usually look poor at lower samples and very slow at higher rates so tend to use mapped shadows - but find hdri generally slow with shadowing turned on at all on all but simplest scenes - but think I have hardware problems... |
Post by noko // Mar 31, 2009, 11:57am
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noko
Total Posts: 684
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I have to admit, I preferred to use mapped shadows with IBL as usually had to really crank up the settings on raytraced shadows to get them smooth enough - both routes being pretty darn slow...
I'm generally liking HDRI in 7.6 - but have similar problems - raytraced shadows usually look poor at lower samples and very slow at higher rates so tend to use mapped shadows - but find hdri generally slow with shadowing turned on at all on all but simplest scenes - but think I have hardware problems...
You can really speed up the rendering in tS lightworks HDRI by using regular lights for shadowing only and HDRI for lighting and reflections. In HDRI course it shows how to setup regular lights to just cast shadows. For very fast rendering with high quality I recommend this approach. As a note it is best to turn off the bridge if you use this method since the bridge will reset the shadow casting lights. |
Post by Nez // Mar 31, 2009, 9:59pm
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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Thanks Noko - I have recently been resorting more to that approach (HDRI for light/reflection but not shadows, with other lights for shadows) but obviously you have to work much harder to get such nice shadowing...
Useful tip about the bridge - not really an issue for me as it's always off...;) But may help others... |
Post by davidjohnson // Apr 5, 2009, 9:50am
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davidjohnson
Total Posts: 169
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I tried to render it just as I opened the project, but it sat for more then 30 minutes and nothing happened. I deleted the object and brought in a cube and tried that again, it hang again for a long time and nothing happened. |
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