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breasts
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Post by RonHiler // Mar 14, 2009, 6:26am
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RonHiler
Total Posts: 30
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Hey guys,
I know, I know, all adolesent jokes aside.... :)
Any suggestions on how to create breasts? I'm having a really tough time with them. I've tried three times now to add breasts to my character, and all three times it has turned out disasterous.
First I tried to halve a sphere (with correct number of lattitudes, 14 in my case), attached to the model, and then shaped. No good.
Then I simply made a flat plane where the breasts would go, attached all the surrounding t-junctions to each other so that I had a single vertex in the middle, pulled that out to where her nipple was, and then added loops and shaped. No good.
Third I tried the same method, but added the loops prior to moving anything out of the initial plane, then pulled them out and shaped. No good.
What technique do you guys use? I swear, I had an easier time with her fingers, hehe. Is there soime trick to this I don't know about, or is it just a case of more practice? |
Post by RAYMAN // Mar 14, 2009, 6:53am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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you already cfound out most of the important things on top making loops.
Once youve got aloop structure you can start doing extusions while looking at it fom the side and following the curvature...;) |
Post by Tiles // Mar 14, 2009, 7:09am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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I would suggest to look for a reference picture first. Your biggest problem seems to know what to model :)
In General there are two ways. Box modeling or Poly by Poly. Box modeling means you start with a box, or any equal primitive. Which may be the a bit easier approach since there is already a geometry you can deform ...
Mmh, have you had a look at human modeling tutorials before? I suggest the Joan of Arc tutorial (http://www.3dtotal.com/tutorials/max/joanofarc/joanmenu.asp). Don't be scared. Just have a look, do a few chapters to get the general idea about the methods and edgeloopflows, and you can return to your problem here :) |
Post by RonHiler // Mar 14, 2009, 7:31am
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RonHiler
Total Posts: 30
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I'm using reference pics (from 3d.sk), and I'm using organic modelling style (more or less, the exception being for the fingers I attached cylinders and then shaped, and I tried to use the sphere for the breasts for the first pass, otherwise everything has been done from a single box).
I would post a pic, but am I allowed to post nudity here? The reference pics are nudes. I could show you guys the best I've been able to come up with. It's not *horrible*, but it's not particularly good either.
I think the biggest problem I have in following my reference is that the reference model has asymetric breats, and actually, I prefer her left breast over the right one (it's more representative of how a woman would look in a bra, her right one is a bit more droopy, heh). However, the only side view I have of her is from her right, so I don't have an exact reference to follow. |
Post by RonHiler // Mar 14, 2009, 8:08am
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RonHiler
Total Posts: 30
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Alright, from looking at other posts, I guess I can post these. If it's a problem, Tom, just let me know and I'll take them down immediately. Warning, these are not work-safe (R-rated)
This is the best I can get. This was made using the second method above
http://www.rjcyberware.com/images/Breasts1.png
Wireframe:
http://www.rjcyberware.com/images/Breasts2.png
Wireframe with one level of SDS (her intended final resolution)
http://www.rjcyberware.com/images/Breasts3.png
Transparent and mirrored to show the reference model underneath
http://www.rjcyberware.com/images/Breasts4.png
Any suggestions? |
Post by Tiles // Mar 14, 2009, 8:53am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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You have already ways too much edgeloops. Delete every second loop and you are on a better way. You should also add an loop below the breast so that SDS doesn't eat that away. The breast also doesn't start that far at the back.
Maybe you should even have a look for another reference pic. And you should decide for one breast. Making them a bit asymetric again is a job when the mirror modeling is finished.:) |
Post by RichLevy // Mar 14, 2009, 8:57am
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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It's not too bad, try this.
In vertices mode, soft select the left side (me looking at your model, her right side). Try to get full coverage. Do not pull too hard, just nudge it. You want to make the flesh of the breast fill out more. Slow and easy does the trick.
You can fix up any illegularities by using the softpaint tool also. You have more control, but it takes some getting used to. And you absolutely have to spend some time learning to use it and learn to make adjustments before you can expect good results. That said thaough, there is a tool in there that is top notch. The Smoothing option. It cleans up meshs pretty well, and is a manditory tool for organic modelers.
HTH
Rich |
Post by RAYMAN // Mar 14, 2009, 10:21am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Tiles is right ! If youve got to many edge loops you cant control the basic shape well ....few of them first get the shape right then ad more...:) |
Post by RonHiler // Mar 14, 2009, 11:36am
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RonHiler
Total Posts: 30
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Too many loops, huh? Okay, I'll try with fewer.
Thanks for the tip on the softbrush, Rich. I'll definitley play with that. That might be just the ticket :) |
Post by RichLevy // Mar 14, 2009, 3:04pm
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RichLevy
Total Posts: 1140
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I disagree, while it may make cutting in the shape easier for someone trying to learn, the number of loops only needs to be considered for the detail you are trying to achieve. Again, I would strt to learn to fill out the breast by using TS's soft selection tool and the different softpaint tools.
Rich |
Post by TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb // Mar 16, 2009, 5:13am
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TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb
Total Posts: 858
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One problem you have with the look, if I may, is the shape on the top part. It's like a ski slope! In other words, it curves the wrong way. If you were to square it all off from the side perspective think 'out to the right and then down' rather than 'down then out to the right'.
Hope that makes sense. |
Post by jamesmc // Mar 16, 2009, 5:20am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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This thread will be re-named to the "Stimulus Package." |
Post by Jack Edwards // Mar 16, 2009, 5:24am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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The problem with the breasts of your character has to do with the flow of the arm muscle into the breast. You can compare with a character that I was working on a while back but never got around to finishing:
http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?t=5520
That edge loop that follows the muscle from the arm down to where it forms the side of the breast is very important in achieving a correct look. Also be aware that the breast points outward from the spine, with the angle between the breasts being about 90 degrees when measured from nipple to spine.
A good quick reference book is:
Techniques for Drawing Female Manga Characters (http://www.amazon.com/Techniques-Drawing-Female-Manga-Characters/dp/476611146X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1237215098&sr=8-1) by Hikaru Hiyashi
Manga illustrations have the benefit of simplifying the form down to just the key elements. Which can make you're work a bit easier when creating a model. The problem with only working from photo references is that there's too much information and it's a lot harder to know where the key loops need to be placed.
You should probably also pick up a more traditional anatomy book that shows muscle structure. |
Post by v3rd3 // Mar 16, 2009, 7:20am
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v3rd3
Total Posts: 388
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In addition to an anatomy book I would suggest you look for the Andrew Loomis series of books. They are online in a number of locations and are referenced in other topics in these forums. The title to look for is "Figure Drawing for all it's worth".
These books were published in the late 30's and early 40's and are believed to be public domain. The books are no longer being printed as far as I can tell and are distributed or reproduced on a number of websites either as pages scans in html or in pdf format.
Most modern drawing methods taught today are derived from Loomis' books. |
Post by RonHiler // Mar 16, 2009, 2:57pm
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RonHiler
Total Posts: 30
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Okay, thanks again for the tips guys, I'll work on them more tomorrow. They are already better than they were (in the shots) thanks mostly to Rich's tips on the soft selection and smoothing functions (the bottoms are filled out a bit better, in fact, I like them MUCH better just from that subtle change). As a result, I haven't lessened the number of loops, because they are starting to look pretty decent (still not perfect, but I don't want to trash them now and start over again at this point).
I think Wicked is definitely right in that the tops still don't look right. My wife said the same thing when she looked at it :) It may be what you say, Jack, in that it's not properly connected to the arm muscles. I'd have to look at it again.
Anyway, I'll get back to it tomorrow. I had to stop and do some programming on the game (which is my *actual* job, heh), so I had to put this down for a bit. But I will post a new screen in the next day or two and you guys can critique it further and see what you think. |
Post by RonHiler // Mar 17, 2009, 6:08am
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RonHiler
Total Posts: 30
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Jack, I've been studying your model for tips, which is very useful.
But it's also a bit depressing. You have a much better model than mine, with about half the polys, and you did it in like 1/4 the amount of time I did. Sigh :) |
Post by Jack Edwards // Mar 17, 2009, 8:44am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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I'm glad it was helpful to you. Don't worry about the speed, that will improve as you practice and develop a better understanding of the forms of the body. I've been messing around with character modeling on and off for about a decade or so and I still have a long ways to go and a lot to learn. In fact, I learned quite a bit from just working on that one project. Eventually, one of these days, I'd like to finish it for my portfolio. BTW, even though it doesn't show in the images, the nipples for the Airship pilot character are all quad geometry, how ridiculous is that? :rolleyes:
The issue with less geometry being better, is that it's easier to work with. Once you get the basic shapes done you can always cut in more detail, but if you already have detail and you need to fix the basic shape -- that's a pain. The key to being able to describe the object with less geometry is to use the flow of the edge loops to define the features of your object. That sounds obvious, but when you start consciously paying attention to how you are using the geometry flow to describe the features of what your modeling it really does make a significant difference in the quality of your work. |
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