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Rock the Vote
About Truespace Archives
These pages are a copy of the official truespace forums prior to their removal somewhere around 2011.
They are retained here for archive purposes only.
Rock the Vote // Roundtable
Post by spacekdet // Feb 27, 2009, 7:59pm
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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Just a reminder, wander on over to the Monthly Modeling Contest poll (http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=7911) and vote.
It's going to be a quick 2 day deal so do it now while you're thinking of it.
These guys worked hard for a month so make it worth their while and go pick your favorite! |
Post by kena // Feb 27, 2009, 8:28pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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I cast my vote! All the entries are very good. |
Post by jamesmc // Feb 28, 2009, 4:57am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Me too, I did it! |
Post by Mr. 3d // Feb 28, 2009, 5:11am
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Mr. 3d
Total Posts: 747
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I can't believe that I'm going to be beat out again....and this time by an unfinished piece of work. I am really pissed off now ! It just goes to show that this is nothing more than a popularity contest rather than who should truely win. I should have won a couple of these contests by now, and I haven't even been awarded enough votes to come in second. At least the poeple who have voted for me in the past can see what I'm talking about (and my BEST wishes go out to those who did) !;)
On top of that, some people have 3-4 votes coming from the same person.....and I've watched the voting closely in the past, so I know who they are. The REAL Winners can be seen in the Caligari monthly contest....nobody is stacking the ballot there ! |
Post by spacekdet // Feb 28, 2009, 7:27am
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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Easy there, Al Gore, don't get your dangling chads into a dimple.
The poll is set up for a one-time vote per person.
Is there a way to hack it for a determined person? Likely.
Is that what's actually happening here in order to win a contest with no prize? Unlikely.
This one happens to be a blind poll ( you can't see who voted for what ), but there is the option during the poll setup to make that visible.
Preferring the secret ballot, and a cleaner appearance, I just didn't set it up that way.
To help alleviate your concerns, maybe the subsequent polls could be made public.
I can't speak for anyone else, but don't think 'popularity' is entering into my decision. We are all 'renderPals' here at the forum, but casting aspersions about 'cheating' maybe isn't the best way to win you any extra points.
It's an unfortunate fact of logic that with two entries, you're essentially competing against yourself. If it makes you feel any better, total them up.
I know from the experience of being in the 'show' spot when it comes to 'win, place or show', that it's not how long and hard you slaved over a scene, or how much intricate detail you modeled, but the initial impact of looking at the final render. It's very hard to define why an image jumps out from a group of entries and you immediately know 'that's the one I like'. First impressions are crucial, I really think people make up their minds quite quickly when judging. I'd hope that I could trust people to judge the work on it's own merits, and not on who made it.
Don't give your concession speech yet, the polls are still open!
18641 |
Post by RAYMAN // Feb 28, 2009, 7:40am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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[FONT=Book Antiqua][SIZE=3] I'd hope that I could trust people to judge the work on it's own merits, and not on who made it.
I´m not so certain about that one though !:D Some do some dont as everywhere.... |
Post by nealiosnoise // Feb 28, 2009, 7:45am
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nealiosnoise
Total Posts: 77
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davinci's stick figure's taking home the bacon.. |
Post by jamesmc // Feb 28, 2009, 8:05am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Crap! I forgot to vote for myself. :D |
Post by Mr. 3d // Feb 28, 2009, 8:55am
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Mr. 3d
Total Posts: 747
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I think you've been using your ass for a gasmask too long spacekdet. If you come out from inside there and clear up all the fumes, you'll take into consideration that what I say is true ! |
Post by spacekdet // Feb 28, 2009, 9:18am
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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Alrighty, then.
If what you say is true, what are you doing here?
Shouldn't you be over there stuffing your ballot box? |
Post by Weevil // Feb 28, 2009, 9:40am
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Weevil
Total Posts: 534
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And once again we have a derailed topic of discussion
Mr 3D. Perhaps if you've got such a problem with these contests you should sit out and stop changing the attitude about this competition for the other people who enter?
Nez is winning because plain and simply, his car is stunning, it conveys the topic exactly, with a fantastic render to boot. In specification to the challenge
Breech Blcok has done the same thing, just on a much grander scale, and has emulated a 1960s approach very well, again, with a good render, which is also, in specification
Kena, original work, emulates the "duck dodgers" style of things, 60s/70s space age cartoon, again, in specification
JamesMC, the surrealist approach very clever again with the cartoon render, and also in specification
Theuns, if he had more time (and luck), would be classical of the creations he makes. And also In specification
Mr 3.D You've thought outside the box, and produced yours quickly, also, in specification
I have to ask mr 3D, if you were winning, would this still be a popularity contest? Are you saying JamesMC, Theuns, breech and kena are not as popular as you? I'm not quite sure about everyone else, but I think they'd be slightly more annoyed than you should be, because what I'm reading there is a pretty poorly disguised insult. If you haven't intended that, I suggest you re-think phrasing.
Nez's car is still unfinished, but point in case it is still graphically better than anyone elses in that competition. The issue with this contest is that its largly subjective, as is the problem with broad subjects, it's very hard to define what makes a winning image, see the discussion about the main gallery which also recieves different entries to here, and if they all did enter into this competition, a VERY vast majority of us wouldn't stand a chance, it just might so happen, that graphics is the key element in this competition, or in fact Nez's car is what defines the subject for that person, that is the downside of thinking far out of the box like you do.
I think the votes would be entirely the same even if the authors weren't known You say the people who vote for you see your viewpoint, but maybe they just thought yours was better than Nez's.
I should ask about your use of post-processing on your "League of their own" image? Considering how vocal you were against it?
Why am I piping up about this? Simply put, how about we stop blazing around the trail a bit, for personal reasons, just in case I enter again I'd rather not have someone pick holes in my work purely because I'm winning or losing a competition, and just play the game. You'll be able to pick holes in my arguement until canon starts flourishing about religion, any-one can pick a hole in an arguement just to prove a point. And you will probably do so, but remember I am looking in from the outside, not actually involved.
So for the sake of reading enjoyment, please moderate your tone, considering "moderator" has been a pretty underused title for Norm, Prodigy, and any other disguised ones (looking at Noko here) around here, lets not start it up again.
YOU are the minority in this case, YOU have to do something about it, you've got the oppurtunity to derail this competition completely, but do you really think you should try it?
So, what are you going to do? |
Post by Steinie // Feb 28, 2009, 10:22am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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Not again!?
I know I used Photoshop to make my last Hitchcock rendering, and Paintshop Pro to add mustaches on my Dali and I received my Artistic training from a matchbook cover trade school and I'm married to a fashion model, I go bass fishing in my yacht, all 12 of my kids have accounts here so I get 13 votes at each MMC (I vote for myself too), I secretly have a cure for stuttering, and I can name 15 ingredients in Kentucky Fried Chicken's secret recipe...
and in spite of my "stature" I voted for Mr. 3D.
Next time I'm voting for someone popular like everyone else...:rolleyes:
p.s. James you should have got my other 12 votes. |
Post by Mr. 3d // Feb 28, 2009, 10:26am
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Mr. 3d
Total Posts: 747
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Weevil....you don't know what you're talking about. You are stacking the cards against me without understanding reasoning.
spacekdet.....the reason I don't rejoin this Caligari Forum under different identities (thus giving me more voting power) is because (being an open Forum) it is already a vulnerable Forum when it comes to computer hackers (and it is apparent that some of you have already been fighting hackers).
Bottom line...I've made some friends out there (even Steinie is my friend...we just rib each other sometimes for fun, but we understand each other). However, some of you will always misunderstand that I'm a great and fun guy to hang with and will try to put me down when given the chance.
On another note:
Rules state....one image |
Post by jamesmc // Feb 28, 2009, 10:27am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Not again!?
I know I used Photoshop to make my last Hitchcock rendering, and Paintshop Pro to add mustaches on my Dali and I received my Artistic training from a matchbook cover trade school and I'm married to a fashion model, I go bass fishing in my yacht, all 12 of my kids have accounts here so I get 13 votes at each MMC (I vote for myself too), I secretly have a cure for stuttering, and I can name 15 ingredients in Kentucky Fried Chicken's secret recipe...
and in spite of my "stature" I voted for Mr. 3D.
Next time I'm voting for someone popular like everyone else...:rolleyes:
p.s. James you should have got my other 12 votes.
I'll try not to send you photocopied money again for the bribe. Well, at least I'll try and make it double-sided next time. :) |
Post by phlewp // Feb 28, 2009, 12:04pm
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phlewp
Total Posts: 9
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Weevil....you don't know what you're talking about. You are stacking the cards against me without understanding reasoning.
spacekdet.....the reason I don't rejoin this Caligari Forum under different identities (thus giving me more voting power) is because (being an open Forum) it is already a vulnerable Forum when it comes to computer hackers (and it is apparent that some of you have already been fighting hackers).
Bottom line...I've made some friends out there (even Steinie is my friend...we just rib each other sometimes for fun, but we understand each other). However, some of you will always misunderstand that I'm a great and fun guy to hang with and will try to put me down when given the chance.
On another note:
Rules state....one image
So why did you submit two? |
Post by Mr. 3d // Feb 28, 2009, 2:00pm
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Mr. 3d
Total Posts: 747
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...and in spite of my "stature" I voted for Mr. 3D.
Next time I'm voting for someone popular like everyone else
So why did you submit two?
LOL:banana: |
Post by Dragneye // Feb 28, 2009, 2:01pm
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Dragneye
Total Posts: 602
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Tisk tisk now Mr. 3d. You're making me feel bad that I voted for one of yours (my second vote I gave to another guy's pic but yours was my first vote :) )
Now, some Dragnfire (without the fire... yet)
I have also felt bad in the past because I rarely come close to winning these things (the one win I have is I feel by default; cuz there wasn't much to pick from that time. But I am still grateful). I'm sure, many of us have felt our efforts should have been better appreciated; it's normal. But a better, unattached, objective look at the piece, usually shows Why it didn't, or shouldn't win.
A vote, on art, is as we all know, Very subjective.
I would/could not create something like kena's works ( all of those reading this; please don't read anything into which names I am using; it's just from the top of my head, not singling out anyone), but do I like them? Yeah. And I have voted for some of his work in the past and not voted for him sometimes. Same goes for jamesmc, or Weevil, or Steinie, or anyone. I look at the pic, consider the context (rules and/or topic), and cast my vote (sometimes wishing I Could vote twice as there is no clear winner in my eyes).
But to ever turn and say, just because the voting isn't going my way (when I've entered) "Man, you guys are cheating. Mine is better!"... wellll... not nice. And, not accurate. HOW do You know what my eye likes today? How do I know what your eye likes... today? (tomorrow is another day; I will like something different)
And if someone wants to 'cheat'... lol... whatever. How sad for them. There's nothing to really win. Question is, did one Learn something from the 'time squeeze' of a deadline format? Did they improve their skills because of the imposed WIPs that were started? Did they become more efficient, effective? That's the only Win that can be had from the Challenges.
This conversation, as in the past, is a beautiful way to ruin participation... and community. Now, that's not your intention... is it? Because NOBODY benefits from this. The less people that get involved here, the less we grow as 'product supporters', and the slower our skill level advances. THAT is what the Challenges are about...
To have a friendly place to visit, and help each of us grow as 3D artists.
So... since there is no good that can come from this thread (since there is no rampant 'cheating' ), let's call it even, imagine this thread closed, please cast a vote in the MMC, and have a Wondrous evening... one and all. |
Post by Mr. 3d // Feb 28, 2009, 2:26pm
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Mr. 3d
Total Posts: 747
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Just like life, even a bed of roses has thorns. I believe I've stated all my grievances within the past few months, and others have stated their grievances about me stating my grievances:D!
I've said my peace....(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NhV2NHeFmFk) |
Post by Dragneye // Feb 28, 2009, 2:37pm
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Dragneye
Total Posts: 602
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Hey Mr. 3d.
That was a beautiful video. Very cool.
What a wonderful... ending.
Thumbs up. :)
(umm, it was pointed out that 'thumbs up' means different things to different people. Mr. 3d... you are in the U.S. right? You do know I meant it in a good way?) |
Post by Mr. 3d // Feb 28, 2009, 5:08pm
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Mr. 3d
Total Posts: 747
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Dragoneye...
18653 :cool: |
Post by spacekdet // Mar 1, 2009, 8:37am
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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At the risk of starting another conflagration, I'm bumping this thread to remind everyone who hasn't voted yet to head on over to the poll and cast your vote for the February Monthly Modeling Challenge. (http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?p=95671)
Polls close at midnight so don't delay.18658
if I can do it, so can you |
Post by jamesmc // Mar 1, 2009, 9:02am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Oh goodie goodie! :D |
Post by Breech Block // Mar 1, 2009, 11:43am
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Breech Block
Total Posts: 844
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18658
if I can do it, so can you
Err...why has that poor woman got a Pacman ghost stuck on to the end of her finger? |
Post by Nez // Mar 4, 2009, 6:48am
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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Not wanting to stir the pot too much (ahh hell, why not! :rolleyes:), it's pretty clear that some/most of this grievance from Mr 3d was directed at me (or my entry, depending on how you want to look at it) so I thought it only fair that I have my say briefly(-ish!) too, as I wasn't actually online at all at the weekend when most of it too place.
Firstly I'd like to thank Breech and Dragneye and the others for trying to show some good manners, reasonableness and positive words. I'm not going to bother rehashing the 'art is subjective' type stuff as that ought to be obvious by now but obviously stands.
But related to that, I would note that - generally - past challenges (on both the SMC and MMC) have favoured a more 'photo-real' approach when it comes to voting. Not always, but I'd say more often than not. In my own case, that's fortunate as this is the style I'm personally trying to work towards - I haven't go there yet but it's one of my main targets. I'm not doing it in the hope of getting votes but because I'm trying to improve my technique in that regard, as it has most application in how I might use tS at work (eingineering/architectural field). But the byproduct is that the 'style' I'm generally striving for is, coincidentally, typically more successful when it comes to voting. This has been discussed to quite some degree in the past as it seems to work (unfairly) against some very talented tS users such as Steinie and Jamesmc (to pick two examples) who exemplify different artistic styles. Both these guys have a huge amount of work to their name and don't get nearly the credit they deserve, largely beacuse they don't follow the beaten path.
So if you're really set on winning a challenge, you might consider trying a 'shiny shiny' render style for a change. I know this was suggested elsewhere and you weren't in favour, but why not give it a shot as a one off at some point and see how you get on? It's just broadening your technique. By the same argument, I recognise I should try to be a bit less rigid and try something more stylised and will try to look for an opportunity to do so.
On the rigged voting, I think Space has already covered that - I think it's unlikely and who gains from it? I'm not here to win (it's not like I actually win anything other than setting the next challenge - which I'd rather not do as I don't have a good track record of setting subjects people want to participate in). I recognise that you don't necessarioy believe me, but I enjoy the participation, which is why you'll see (if you look back) that I'm one of the most frequent MMC and SMC entrants in the history of both challenges, and it's not as if I have loads of wins to show for it. As Space said, I think most of us are friends here and don't see this as a popularity contest. Sure, I likke to feel respected, but I'd like to think I've tried to earn that by being helpful and polite to others and improving my work (which has definitely come on from some of my weak early SMC entries).
NB - as for the Caligallery - well there's been plenty of arguments about that in the past too (especially on the use of photoshop etc), but I'd note that I've got several honourable mentiosn there too, so my stylistic approach has some merit.
With regards to the 2 images - I apologise if you feel this was in breech of the rules. I confess, I didn't read the in detail (I'm not sure Space actually posted a full set of rules for this challenge) as I've been participating in the MMC from near it's inception and have always supported the idea that (a) the whole WIP is your entry withthe finished image being merely a highlight and (b) that if your entry is best represented by more than one image (or something other than a static image) that is fair for your submission to reflect that - and strongly advocated for such to be permitted to improve the situation for several other 'contestants' with more broad or dynamic approaches. I explained my reasons for showing both images at the time. As you state, my image was unfinished and that is my fault, especially given the extra time - but that meant simply that people were judging my unfinished work against the other submissions - it's not like mine was the only unfinished piece.
Having rambled for more than long enough, all I can say is that I'm sorry you feel so agrieved by this situation - it clearly wasn't my intent to upset you. I don't see you complaining about the other images that got more votes than you so I assume it's something personal towards me?
I can only say that if winning a challenge is something that really matters to you, you could try following some of the constructive advice others have tried to give and keep entering - with only a few exceptions, those of us with previous wins have had to work hard to get them - it took me 19 attempts at the SMC to get a win!
Finally - For the new MMC, I've tried to choose a subject matter that I think will appeal to you both in subject matter and potential stylistic theme (i.e. doesn't need to be shiny-shiny photo-real), so you you should have a good chance this time round, if you still want to participate. Hope you do - think it would be right up your street. |
Post by Mr. 3d // Mar 4, 2009, 11:43am
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Mr. 3d
Total Posts: 747
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That was eloquently put Nez.
The problem with chatting online is that true context can become misinterpreted. I never directed anything towards you....so don't go spreading rumors that I don't like you or hold grudges against anyone in this Forum. I have stated that I consider everyone my friend, whether they like it or not. I have no problems creating shiny reflective objects.
....My concern was that you submitted two pictures.
....My concern was that you got 2-3 votes from the same person (with different log-in names).
I also don't think that it is a wise decision to allow more than one image per Wip for the next MMC......I could just as well justify entering 50 finished images for one WIP...(you comprehend ?).
I like your work....but don't go tooting your horn either and spreading you own little rumors that you are a better artist than others here because you create shiny reflective work.
I suggest you regroup your thoughts about me.:p |
Post by spacekdet // Mar 4, 2009, 3:02pm
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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I also note that you submitted two images.
The decision to post both of Nez's images was mine as the contest admin- I felt either one could stand on it's own and if he hadn't run into whatever problems he had- a funeral and some computer access issues if I remember right- they would have been combined into one image.
In any case, I think the outcome would have been the same.
There's a brand new MMC, lets stick a fork in this one because it's done.
My last word on this issue:
http://www.spacekdet.com/junkdrawer/whackwhackwhack.gif
Keep whacking, it's bound to help. |
Post by Mr. 3d // Mar 4, 2009, 4:09pm
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Mr. 3d
Total Posts: 747
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I also note that you submitted two images.
You truly are a spacekdet....One image per WIP.
I told you about that helmet being on too tight....
18724 |
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