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Very serious question about virtual Earth
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Very serious question about virtual Earth // Roundtable
Post by marcel // Jan 17, 2009, 12:50am
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marcel
Total Posts: 569
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models imported in Virtual earth must have a minimum of accuracy with reality. This is not Second Life. I want to know if the data is checked before being added. What happens if I want to add a monument to a specific location if there is already something worse. VE is not a game , it is the equivalent of Google earth. Who will check if I put anything in place of my home in France? I do not know how Microsoft will manage all this when thousands of people start to import. As if anyone could add data to gps map: it is not serious and there would be no guarantee of accuracy. |
Post by Délé // Jan 17, 2009, 1:06am
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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Anything you upload is put into your personal collections. People can then view your collections. I suspect only the VE people can add permanent stuff to VE. In other words, anyone can make buildings, or even fictitious stuff, of which others can view by loading those collections (if they're made public).
You can also make web pages that have VE embedded and load specific models from a folder on your server into VE. This method was used for the Santa Village. This way people can ONLY view your models from your web page. It's not stored in a collection.
So while VE at it's core is meant to have accurate Earth information, it can be customized for just about anything that users desire. I'm not sure how permanent stuff is added, but I suspect it has to go through the VE devs. |
Post by Norm // Jan 18, 2009, 9:06am
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Norm
Total Posts: 862
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There could be any number of objects placed on same location. It will depend on what collection a viewer is looking at for what they see on that spot. They could view all the objects on that spot if they had access to all the collections with items on that spot. |
Post by Emma // Jan 18, 2009, 9:48am
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Emma
Total Posts: 344
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did you ever see the TV movie series " Sliders "
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sliders
Just think of a collection as being one of the many parallel dimensions und if you share access to the collection you create it is like giving away the coordinates for one of those dimension.
Just have to watch that you'll never loose your home coordinates:D |
Post by marcel // Jan 18, 2009, 11:48am
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marcel
Total Posts: 569
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Thank for yours replys. I did not have much time to become interested in virtual earth.
Délé: do you know how make web pages that have VE embedded and load specific models from a folder on my server into VE? It interests me.
Norm: I thought of profitable uses for future generation. This can be used for archaeologists to show a former and present place.
Emma: I can imagine a four-dimensional vritual Earth. A virtual sliders. But before the present must be in place. :) |
Post by splinters // Jan 18, 2009, 12:07pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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I am still holding out hope for Virtual Earths...that being other planets to visit. Why just visit places you know exist and are familiar with when you could visit all of the places that live in the minds of creative individuals....:D |
Post by marcel // Jan 18, 2009, 12:12pm
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marcel
Total Posts: 569
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Do you really know all the places around the world splinters ? :D |
Post by splinters // Jan 18, 2009, 1:22pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Nope, but I am sure that we, as a collective race, do?
But have you visited the places in my mind recently Marcel??
It was said that tS allows the artist to realise their visions but how do we share them? Not everyone is good at portfolios, websites etc. Maybe they would want something more interactive.....
Fact is, if this really takes off, eventually all of the earth will be recreated virtually...but then what? |
Post by Délé // Jan 18, 2009, 1:40pm
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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Délé: do you know how make web pages that have VE embedded and load specific models from a folder on my server into VE? It interests me.Below is a link to a very simple test page that I made. It's a simple adaptation of the code from the Santa village web page. If you view the page source, you can see how it works. The model is loaded from a folder on my server, then positioned into VE. It also zooms the view to where the object is located.
http://www.delevinci.com/VEtest2.html
In order for this to work, you have to use .obj format. The cool thing about this though, is that you could do all kinds of calculations to display different objects in different positions under different circumstances. Like for instance, you could have different objects load at different times of day. Lots of possibilities.
You might also want to check out the VE SDK:
http://dev.live.com/Virtualearth/sdk/ |
Post by marcel // Jan 18, 2009, 2:04pm
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marcel
Total Posts: 569
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Slinters: I understand your point of view. i agree, except it is not less difficult than to create a little web site. there is many interest to recreate a virtual world identical to the original, for business, fun or arts. It is hoped that the commercial exploitation of Virtual Earth developed as artists can use these technologies to show what they have in their mind.
Délé: thank. I will see the info tomorrow because it is to late for me. Where is my bed? |
Post by W!ZARD // Jan 19, 2009, 12:33am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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...recreate a virtual world identical to the original, ...
Um... we've already got a real world - recreating a virtual version would have many uses but for me it's a bit like reinventing the wheel. The real world? Nah, it's been done before - I agree with Splinters, lets create lots of imaginary virtual worlds - who knows, someone might invent one that would show us how to use the Real World properly....
Reality is for those with no imagination!! |
Post by marcel // Jan 19, 2009, 2:28am
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marcel
Total Posts: 569
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OK my thread was only to understand how VE work, but why not explore other idea.
I am not about to explain my point of view because I do not have enough knowledge of English. Business resulting from a virtual world representing the reality is unfortunately necessary for us to take advantage of the tools at our disposal. Even if it is not our goal, it is important for Microsoft (it does not mean that I agree).Otherwise, virtual earth disappear and our means of communication. Furthermore I am not sure to take refuge in the virtual world can help build a real world cleaner if there is no connection with reality. For many people, this is a way to escape reality. I know from experience that it is not easy to use virtual worlds, to give people aware of the real problems. I work with other people on second life in the fight against climate change. The virtual world can help to show a REAL problem. You can also use it for dream, for fun, for business...
(translate with google). Hope you understand |
Post by W!ZARD // Jan 19, 2009, 3:02am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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You are perfectly correct Marcel! I was trying to make a (not very good) joke! For me, part of the great thing about VE is that it can represent the 'real' world AND an imaginary world (like the North Pole Santa Village project).
There is no rtight or wrong - just different ways of being....:) |
Post by TomG // Jan 19, 2009, 4:41am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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The nature of virtual worlds and whether they should be imaginary or grounded in reality is a big and complex issue :) I think for business purposes though, the real world being redone as virtual is much more important - see how your new university campus will look, learn your way around the roads and streets better than just a 2D map (look how many folks struggle with map reading, and how easy it is to drive around streets you've already seen and got spatially oriented to), put your business on the map in a much more literal sense, and so on and so forth.
The business success of fantasy worlds - well, there are examples out there already on how succesful that is for real and regular businesses.
Anyway, placing your objects on VE is just as people mention. It is done with layers, if you like, those layers being collections. By browsing a collection, you enter that particular view of the world. The buildings in a collection will "override" any that exist in the VE base layer, so you can replace buildings in a city with your own - but no-one will ever see them unless they come to visit your collection, in effect unless they choose to switch on that particular layer.
Visitors to VE always arrive in the base layer only, where content is purely controlled by the VE team (and so yes, goes through lots of approval and checking!). So unique and personal items are only viewable via the collections, "hidden away" from the real world. You can make your collection public, so people looking at a particular area can see your collection as a link on the left of the VE map, or make it searchable so they can find it when doing a search for something in particular. This way people can find your content through VE, without being forced to see it.
Adding content via OBJs is VERY powerful. Then objects then are not stored by VE at all (a Collection is stored on the VE servers). This does mean they are not searchable, and not publically finable in VE, you have to bring people to your specific web page, as the loading and display of the objects is done through javascript in your HTML. See the VE SDK on all the options, there are a lot.
One note on serving up OBJ is that your web server will need to be able to serve up that MIME type. Some servers do not, which will mean you'll get a "not found" when you try to access something ending with the extension OBJ.
Other than that, the code to load up and show an object in a VE control embedded on a web page is pretty simple!
We're working right now on a little demo project of what could be done using this, hope to have something to show in a week or two, and then we'll be discussing it in more detail!
HTH!
Tom
HTH!
Tom |
Post by marcel // Jan 19, 2009, 5:42am
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marcel
Total Posts: 569
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For wizard
" Reality is for those with no imagination!! ": you can use the reality to show an idea (like a photograph). Because many people have no imagination, it is easier to explain something with the reality but that need imagination.
" I was trying to make a (not very good) joke! " : i like people who do joke, or who have differents idea like me. The world would be sad if we all had the same vision.
" For me, part of the great thing about VE is that it can represent the 'real' world AND an imaginary world " : yes, it is the difference between VE and SL (second life). SL is only virtual. i don't like. i see no future for SL.
" You are perfectly correct Marcel! ": i write a better english since i use this forum.
" There is no right or wrong - just different ways of being " : there is no virtual or real - just different ways to see.
For Tom
" see how your new university campus will look " : the town (Toulouse in France) where i was born is entirely in VE. It is one of the most important project in VE (like New York).
" the loading and display of the objects is done through javascript in your HTML. " : since some years, i use java to put my 3d work in real time in my web site (i import vrml from TS to wirefusion). I would like to study ve. this can help me for other thing. But it is not compatible with mac. I have some important projects (for the reality but not for my actual job) who can use VE.
" We're working right now on a little demo project of what could be done using this, hope to have something to show in a week or two, and then we'll be discussing it in more detail! " : it is a good new!
Thank for all
I'm learning more and I become more optimistic. Why a day have not 50 hours? |
Post by marcel // Jan 19, 2009, 5:48am
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marcel
Total Posts: 569
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I would like something like that in VE:
http://crea-vision.fr/annexes/mondes/voutes.html
left click to move or rotate.
right click to see the sky or the floor. |
Post by Nez // Jan 19, 2009, 5:56am
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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That's pretty cool Marcel - is that your own site? Reminds me somewhat of Quicktime VR (which I found you could produce back in tS5) but a bit better.
I'm still wuite interested in one of your original queries - who produces the information that the public do see, and if any of it is produced by the 'public', who judges whether it is good enough for the public areas... strikes me that there should be folks here (and elsewhere) capable of producing content good enough for public consumption... |
Post by TomG // Jan 19, 2009, 6:16am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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There's no process at present for third parties to submit content to go into the base layer of VE. No denying that folks here are good enough to make some great content though :)
The only suggestion I could make is to keep making content, sharing it, making noise, and generally attracting attention to yourself. Lots of things could come of that - btw I'm not saying you'll find yourself recruited to make VE base layer content for MS, just saying that a demonstrated talent could lead any place really (while a talent that is not demonstrated isn't going to lead to anything at all...)
HTH!
Tom |
Post by marcel // Jan 19, 2009, 6:17am
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marcel
Total Posts: 569
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Yes, it is my site. Made with TS. |
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