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geometry paint and trees....
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geometry paint and trees.... // Roundtable
Post by RAYMAN // Jan 5, 2009, 7:27pm
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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I just had a question in the social group on trees and render times
and I post it here for all to see that woods and lots of trees can be
dispersed with the geometry paint tools that were introduced with TS 6.5.. !
They work with both Lightworks and Vray.
Although Vue´s ecosystem is more advanced Truespaces tool works pretty well and you should be able to render a whole wood in a few minutes with both render engines.
Note that the trees in Vue are made with clipmapping (alpha planes)the branches rather then with full geometry!;)
You can use 3-4 different trees and turn them in workspace later... |
Post by RAYMAN // Jan 5, 2009, 7:33pm
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Heres the scenefile |
Post by RAYMAN // Jan 6, 2009, 5:25am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Dryad trees have around 500000 - 700000 polygons and when
you load 3 trees your over the limit of what Truespace as a rule
of thumb can use in model side.
Note that applications with a dedicated instancing system like
the Vue ecosystem can populate hundreds of dryad trees without choking.. |
Post by RAYMAN // Jan 6, 2009, 9:19am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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a few thousand instances rendered in Kerkythea MLT bpth....(600000 polys each) |
Post by jamesmc // Jan 6, 2009, 9:37am
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jamesmc
Total Posts: 2566
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Doesn't both programs you referenced use instancing?
I don't know how much memory an instance of tree makes up, but it ain't much.
If tS had instancing, population of plant life would be as easy. |
Post by rjeff // Jan 6, 2009, 9:56am
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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Kena can you give an example how you did one tree. I am having a problem figuring that out. |
Post by RAYMAN // Jan 6, 2009, 10:59am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Truespace has something near instancing but its not that memoryeffective
its geometry paint and you can do quite some dispersing of trees with it too.
But the problem was (that Tahnoak had) was that dryad just swaps out treefiles of 500000 polys and above and thats to big for Truespaces (geometry paint).
You just get a dozen trees or so.
Tahnoak jus pointed me to tree(d) for Giles and I fonund that it makes very nice trees at around 10000 polys and exports X files.
Here is a render of geometry paint tree. It only takes afew seconds to render
at around 600 px wide in Vray.
But you must fiddle around with the textures and make alpha clips for the leaves plus the png that it exports show up as sequences. |
Post by Délé // Jan 6, 2009, 11:00am
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Délé
Total Posts: 1374
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I agree, geometry instancing would be nice. The workspace does currently have material instancing though. That alone can greatly reduce file size.
I was going to test a method for trees a while back, but I forgot all about it. TS can handle large poly counts well, but not large object counts. So, I was thinking of using instanced materials and then boolean the trees together so they're one object. I would think that could make a scene with a large group of trees run smoother.
Edit: It may be possible to write a script to expedite the process too. I think I created a script to place branch layers a while back. I'll have to dig that out. The cluster script might be able to quickly create a forest. hmmm. |
Post by RAYMAN // Jan 6, 2009, 11:08am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Kena can you give an example how you did one tree. I am having a problem figuring that out.
Well I´m not Kena but you do them with treegenerators like dryad or tree (d)
for Giles
@ Dele : It would be great to have something for Workspace side ! |
Post by tahnoak // Jan 6, 2009, 12:05pm
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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Truespace has something near instancing but its not that memoryeffective
its geometry paint and you can do quite some dispersing of trees with it too.
But the problem was (that Tahnoak had) was that dryad just swaps out treefiles of 500000 polys and above and thats to big for Truespaces (geometry paint).
You just get a dozen trees or so.
Tahnoak jus pointed me to tree(d) for Giles and I fonund that it makes very nice trees at around 10000 polys and exports X files.
Here is a render of geometry paint tree. It only takes afew seconds to render
at around 600 px wide in Vray.
But you must fiddle around with the textures and make alpha clips for the leaves plus the png that it exports show up as sequences.
Hey RAYMAN, how did you get the trees to render correctly? When I import them as an .x file the textures are gone. Also, how did you get around the fact that the textures are animated? |
Post by RAYMAN // Jan 6, 2009, 12:33pm
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Thats the tricky part of it !
First you have to aisable the animation part in the file import...
then you have to convert the files you use from the texture folder to bmps
and make alpha maps(simple black and white) you then load manualy
and apply it to the trunck and to the leaves part...then I did the render
in Vray |
Post by tahnoak // Jan 6, 2009, 1:08pm
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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Okay, I don't have Vray, but Lightworks should work as well, no? |
Post by RAYMAN // Jan 6, 2009, 1:26pm
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Yes it should !
If you run into any problems please tell me maybe we can solve them together !
Peter |
Post by tahnoak // Jan 6, 2009, 2:20pm
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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How do I disable the animation in the import? I am importing the .x file? |
Post by RAYMAN // Jan 6, 2009, 2:49pm
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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If you go to model side and choose the import of Direct X format you also have the settingsfor it .
Be sure to uncheck the animation imports...see picture;) |
Post by rjeff // Jan 6, 2009, 3:06pm
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rjeff
Total Posts: 1260
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Sorry Rayman. |
Post by RAYMAN // Jan 6, 2009, 4:44pm
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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No problem Rjeff !
I just imported the trees from tree(d) into truespace and reexported them as 3ds and they look quite nice in Vue inf. too !
im going to look at arbaro software too as another option |
Post by tahnoak // Jan 6, 2009, 5:01pm
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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great stuff but I don't see an import Direct X icon or option anywhere. Is that part of the new LUUV? I have the older version. |
Post by RAYMAN // Jan 6, 2009, 6:21pm
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Its the dialog that you get when you open modeler and from the small Ts6 files tab you go to the pull down load ------ object--- and there you choose direct X as a file format when you do that you should see settings
I´m having some very nice results with arbaro and the preset treetyps that
come with it.
Its almaost as powerfull as my old xfrog version I got...;)
Will post some results |
Post by kena // Jan 6, 2009, 9:14pm
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kena
Total Posts: 2321
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Kena can you give an example how you did one tree. I am having a problem figuring that out.
oops - sorry, I'm a bit behind on the forums these days.
If you mean the tree I did for Stonehenge... I created the tree in Vue and exported it as an object file. Then imported it into TS.
The grass, however, was all Alpha-planes. |
Post by tahnoak // Jan 7, 2009, 12:16am
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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Its the dialog that you get when you open modeler and from the small Ts6 files tab you go to the pull down load ------ object--- and there you choose direct X as a file format when you do that you should see settings
I´m having some very nice results with arbaro and the preset treetyps that
come with it.
Its almaost as powerfull as my old xfrog version I got...;)
Will post some results
Yep, thanks. I figured it out right after I posted. |
Post by RAYMAN // Jan 7, 2009, 12:44am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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Heres some of the results I get from Arbaro !
You have to start with the preset objects to understand how it works.(unlimited amount of species)
Its pretty demanding and very versatile.
Its a poor mans Xfrog.. |
Post by tahnoak // Jan 7, 2009, 12:53am
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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Awesome!
Here is what I get when I import the .x file and do the conversions as you told me how.
why are the leaves purple and why is the trunk black? Thoughts?
I am using white lights which should show everything washed out, if anything. |
Post by RAYMAN // Jan 7, 2009, 1:24am
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RAYMAN
Total Posts: 1496
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I dont get that when I render in Vray 1
and not in realtime.
Could it be tat you have a black materiallayer....
Just a thought !
Heres another one with arbaro its around 100000 Polys |
Post by tahnoak // Jan 7, 2009, 1:31am
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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I dont get that when I render in Vray 1
and not in realtime.
Could it be tat you have a black materiallayer.... Just a thought !
Heres another one with arbaro its around 100000 Polys
Arbaro stuff looks great. Nice sky as well.
No black material layer. When I open the scene material list it shows me the correct materials. Even before I render it shows me the right materials but as soon as I render (in Lightworks) they show up Purple leaves and black trunk. Now for some reason I am having a hard time creating a simple alpha map in GIMP to use with the leaf09 texture. So I just used the leaf09.png and put it in the transparency box. It looks perfect before I render. Hmmmmm... |
Post by tahnoak // Jan 7, 2009, 1:45am
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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I was able to make the alpha map in GIMP and now I know it is NOT an alpha problem which is causing the leaves to be purple. I do not believe it is a lighting problem since I am using the white lights pre-set lighting scheme.
Interestingly enough, it works just fine if I change render engines and use Virtual Light. (See image) |
Post by TomG // Jan 7, 2009, 2:20am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Try repainting - could be there is no UV map for instance. Could be a geometry problem with normals. Repainting with a default grey shader should determine if thats the case - if it renders grey as expected, then its a material problem, something wrong with the imported material. If it still renders wrong, its one of the other issues (next step in that case is to apply a cubic UV and see if that changes anything, followed by trying things like Fix Bad Geometry or Flip Normals if that UV map makes no difference).
Thanks!
Tom |
Post by tahnoak // Jan 7, 2009, 2:23am
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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Tom,
Thanks, will do! |
Post by tahnoak // Jan 7, 2009, 2:34am
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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Changed to default gray and leaves are still purple and trunk is still black. I have even shutdown and restarted tS just in case there were some latent issues but no change. |
Post by tahnoak // Jan 7, 2009, 2:39am
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tahnoak
Total Posts: 487
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No change on fix bad geometry or with flip normals. I did try another test and import the object WITHOUT materials and it still renders purple and black. I even tried to paint some faces with the material and it still shows up black. |
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