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mt blackhead
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mt blackhead // Work in Progress
Post by Burnart // Oct 1, 2006, 4:03pm
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Burnart
Total Posts: 839
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A work in progress. Not after realism but a complexity derived from lots of "stuff". The background I'm pretty much OK with but I'm not happy with the cone trees in the foreground. Suggestions anyone? (- keep in mind I'm after a toonish environment.) Is it too dark or contrasty? |
Post by splinters // Oct 1, 2006, 9:08pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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I really like this; appeals to my own style of artwork....:D |
Post by frank // Oct 2, 2006, 4:22am
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frank
Total Posts: 709
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Yup - I also think this is pretty cool! This is similar to something I'm sketching now.
Nice job, Burnart! |
Post by Jack Edwards // Oct 2, 2006, 4:22am
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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I like this and it does reming me of Splinters work. :) Not sure how you'd change the trees without losing the feel. The cone trees in the background look great so I wouldn't change them. Since you're doing a mainly pine forest you may want to look at some photos of pine trees and see what differnt kinds of ways you could represent them as.
Maybe use multiple cones per tree and alpha map the bottom edges for the upclose ones...?
Whatever you decide to do the image alreadly looks great. |
Post by splinters // Oct 2, 2006, 5:55am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Love the autumn colours on the hills and foreground and I like the trees but I would add a little more variation to their size and incline (leaning over).
I like things a bit more organic but it is not my artwork, however, if you are after advice I might round the bottom of the trees off a bit more so they are not so flat with a sharp edge. Maybe make the odd one a little crooked too.
Looking forward to seeing where this one goes...:D
Would like to see that insert picture a bit bigger as well. |
Post by Wigand // Oct 2, 2006, 7:46am
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Wigand
Total Posts: 462
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Did you say realism it is not important for this picture?
Nevertheless, some things I am not sure about.
You used a local light not an infinite light? Is this what you want?
Therefore the shadows are not parallel.
The volcano seems to be to near while the trees have the right height.
You can give it a little blue, and fog around the top.
I like the trees. But like splinter said: more variation.
Some screes (is this the right word?) at the mountain side. :-) |
Post by Burnart // Oct 2, 2006, 5:50pm
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Burnart
Total Posts: 839
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Thanks for the advice - I'll try some infinite lights and as far as the trees go I'll start with frizzing up the edges as they really are much too sharp. I'll post a new version in a day or two with a bit of luck. I'm not completely wedded to pine trees its just that I thought they'd be easy so if anyone has some other suggestions or ideas to show by all means suggest away. |
Post by splinters // Oct 2, 2006, 9:18pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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What about Cedar trees; they look almost surreal without any tinkering; |
Post by trueBlue // Oct 2, 2006, 10:00pm
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trueBlue
Total Posts: 1761
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How about the trees that shipped with trueSpace?
The Seed Tree. |
Post by Burnart // Oct 4, 2006, 12:49pm
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Burnart
Total Posts: 839
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I've made some new trees - straight, bent, various sizes. Frizzed up the edges and made some other modifications to the materials. Next I need to create some colour variations.
Why didn't I use the tree that came with tS? Good question! a) I forgot about it - b) I don't like it - & c) as a hobbyist I like to do everything myself - its more satisfying when complete! The joys of not having a deadline.
The biggest hassle could be when I have lots of them trying to render transparent shadows in a big scene - cross that bridge when I get to it - (hey how about a little footbridge crossing a creek!?....)
Will check in again in a few days. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Oct 4, 2006, 2:06pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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These look great Burnart! Can't wait to see the update. :)
-Jack. |
Post by Nez // Oct 10, 2006, 1:56am
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Nez
Total Posts: 1102
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The new trees look great - much more interesting but still retaining a great cartoony look.
Look forward to seeing an updated version with these and the lighting updated. |
Post by frank // Oct 10, 2006, 2:38am
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frank
Total Posts: 709
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I like those style of trees too. |
Post by Burnart // Oct 11, 2006, 1:10pm
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Burnart
Total Posts: 839
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Current status:
New trees need to have raytraced infinite lights to get a proper cast shadow through the transparency in the texture. So the shadows are much sharper than I'd like but I don't think there is a solution apart from ones which involve massive rendering blow out times. The sharp shadows emphasise problems with the placement of some rocks - on the "to do"list.
For anyone interested in such things - the sky was created in Painter and used as a bg for the far mountains, volcano and first row of hills which were rendered in tS. This was then loaded as a bg for the foreground render. Not happy with the naked row of hills in the midground but I'm not sure how to dress them at the moment. They were rendered with the volcano layer and I don't want a high poly solution because it already takes a fair while to calculate the placement of particles during the eruption animation. I suppose I could go back to a simpler cone with darkish stripes to fake the multilayered effect of the foreground trees.. thoughts anyone? |
Post by frootee // Oct 11, 2006, 5:05pm
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frootee
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As far as the shadows, could you use shadow maps, instead of ray traced shadows?
The intensity of the hues works in this case I think. |
Post by Johny // Oct 11, 2006, 5:26pm
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Johny
Total Posts: 672
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New tree look beter now. |
Post by Burnart // Oct 11, 2006, 6:13pm
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Burnart
Total Posts: 839
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As far as the shadows, could you use shadow maps, instead of ray traced shadows?
The intensity of the hues works in this case I think.
The shadow maps don't really work - I tried. The softness of the edge pretty much wipes out the layered effect of the trees so its swings and roundabouts - I either get the full effect of the new tree shape or I get soft shadows but not both. I could try a cluster of lights or something else but that will greatly increase rendering times and I've never been a person who can put up with slow renders - particularly on animation frames. (If I can't see it rendering its too slow!) :rolleyes: |
Post by GraySho // Oct 12, 2006, 12:47am
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GraySho
Total Posts: 695
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With lightworks you can't have softshadows (shadowmaps) AND transparent shadows (raytraced shadows only). |
Post by Johny // Oct 12, 2006, 3:41am
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Johny
Total Posts: 672
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With lightworks you can't have softshadows (shadowmaps) AND transparent shadows (raytraced shadows only).
below img rendered with LW.
use IBL for softshadow.
for transparant shadows see setting on below img. |
Post by GraySho // Oct 12, 2006, 5:31am
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GraySho
Total Posts: 695
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below img rendered with LW.
use IBL for softshadow.
for transparant shadows see setting on below img.
That's kind of a fake soft shadow, you'd get the same result with IBL and Raytraced shadows, because the IBL represents multiple light sources (IBL resolution). Try a point or infinite light with shadow maps, shadow transparency and you'll get raytraced shadows. |
Post by spacekdet // Oct 12, 2006, 7:31am
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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Lightworks automatically uses raytracing if transparent shadows are selected.
Even though the GUI shows that you have mapped shadows selected, it's actually using raytracing to create the colored shadows.
A small array of infinite lights might work for you- speed-wise it may be faster than using an IBL or Area light, especially for an animation with lots of alpha textures. |
Post by Burnart // Oct 24, 2006, 11:46pm
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Burnart
Total Posts: 839
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Still going! Here it is now. The landscape has been reconfigured with the addition of a creek and bridge. I also took the mesh into tS7 player side and did a mesh reduction. New trees new rocks - still working on the placement. To get rendering times down a bit I have replaced all the procedural texture shaders with image maps. Now I think I can use an area light for shadows in my animation render without having ridiculously long render times. The whole thing is set out across 5 layers - each of which is rendered separately as 32bit tga then composited. The good thing about this approach is that animation only occurs on 2 of the layers!
If you look at the slightly larger tree inset you can just make out a very thin dark line below the bottom of the last row of foliage. This is the edge of the cone used. The transparency map should make the edge invisible but for some reason it doesn't. Anyone know how to get rid of that? |
Post by splinters // Oct 24, 2006, 11:59pm
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Well I love it...this style really appeals to me. Looking forward to seeing the end result...:D |
Post by TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb // Oct 25, 2006, 12:24am
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TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb
Total Posts: 858
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The transparency map should make the edge invisible but for some reason it doesn't. Anyone know how to get rid of that?
Had the same problem some time ago and it drove me nuts! Found out that it you turn of filtering (the 'flt' tick box) for the alpha map in the shader settings it works as expected.
Hope it works for you too! |
Post by Burnart // Oct 25, 2006, 12:56am
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Burnart
Total Posts: 839
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Thanks WickedWitch - I'll check it out. |
Post by daybe // Oct 25, 2006, 2:03am
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daybe
Total Posts: 562
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This has turned out very nice, I too love this style, reminds me of early saturday morning TV shows when I grew up.:D |
Post by GraySho // Oct 25, 2006, 6:20am
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GraySho
Total Posts: 695
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I like it a lot, very stylish. I also like the non-uniform tree placement. |
Post by Jack Edwards // Oct 25, 2006, 6:59pm
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Jack Edwards
Total Posts: 4062
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Two thumbs up here. Love the style.
Not sure all the trees should be falling over though... maybe have some straighter ones in with the more stylized ones?
-Jack. |
Post by Burnart // Oct 26, 2006, 12:59pm
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Burnart
Total Posts: 839
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The placement of the trees on the current version is all based on paint with objects using the surface normals of the landscape mesh. It is decidedly odd and when I do the next (final!) distribution of trees I was intending to do some trees as normals and some as upright - particularly on top of the nearest hills. Might get a chance to look at it on the weekend - Currently my computer is churning out eruption frames for the volcano layer - hope I don't need to render this again as its taken several days! |
Post by W!ZARD // Oct 31, 2006, 12:50am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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This is delightful - I love the style, very whimsical. It's both fascinating and educational watching this develop. |
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