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The Wizard is in the building!
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The Wizard is in the building! // Work in Progress
Post by W!ZARD // Jul 9, 2006, 7:58am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Well now - this is a work in progress - a part of my ongoing saga and, thanks to the inspiration derived from splinters and the adventures of Harold, this image contains some characters: namely Harriet the Spacewitch and the Cozmyk Wizard who combine in a partnership known as Wizitch Inc.
Wizitch Inc a sort of magical detective agency and has its offices in the castle seen in some of my recent other posts. In this picture they're awaiting the arrival of some unexpectected guests.
Aha, you say! How can they be waiting for guests they don't expect? Wizards and Witches always expect at least three impossible things before breakfast (it's one of the rules!) and so far the pancakes have not been served, therefore they are expecting the unexpected at any moment - it's a kind of wizard thing!
This picture is fairly close to completion so I'm not planning on changing much - however I did want to run it past you folk in case there is something you can suggest or something I've missed. I should say the current POV is a little too high and the final pic will have the camera at the eye height of someone standing in the cams current position.
Any thoughts? |
Post by splinters // Jul 9, 2006, 8:30am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Lovely work Wizard. My first reaction is that the characters are in a pose that suggests they should be the focus of the image and are too small for that to work. If you were going for a 'first view of the castle hall' type view than I might put them in a door way with their backs to us and the grand view of the hall in front. Hard to say really without knowing the story, and each of us has our own artistic vision (like film directors do) but it is a great image and has potential for many different views...:) |
Post by KeithC // Jul 9, 2006, 8:31am
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KeithC
Total Posts: 467
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Very nice work, as usual Wizard. A+:D
-Keith |
Post by mrbones // Jul 9, 2006, 9:45am
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mrbones
Total Posts: 1280
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I love this image, it is really nice, I esspecially like the stained glass windows in the back.
This is awesome work! |
Post by Birdnest // Jul 9, 2006, 11:04am
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Birdnest
Total Posts: 152
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Very cool! I love all of the details you put around the castle! All of the small items must have been alot of work and effort!
Umm....just one thing, the wizards skin color looks really bright..almost grey lol. Was that purposley done? |
Post by MadMouse // Jul 9, 2006, 12:05pm
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MadMouse
Total Posts: 1069
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Excellent work Stephen. Maybe the light from the candles is a little harsh but other than that..........GREAT!!!! Love the stained glass.
Steve |
Post by Steinie // Jul 9, 2006, 12:27pm
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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That white light was what caught my eye right away. A yellowish light (warmer) from the candles would look better. It is coming along nicely and I like their art collection too! |
Post by TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb // Jul 10, 2006, 12:51am
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TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb
Total Posts: 858
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Great work Wizard, and loads of lovely detail! Only one thing caught my eye as 'not right' - the straw of the broom seems too bright, almost like radioactive gold, and drew my attention too much. Apart from that, and the light mentioned by others, I think it's safe to say a definite "woo"! |
Post by Shike // Jul 10, 2006, 4:19am
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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Wow, a lot of stuff to look at in this pic ! And it looks great ! :D
Any chance that you'll torture your computer by letting volymetrics play with the stained glass? ;) |
Post by hemulin // Jul 10, 2006, 5:58am
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hemulin
Total Posts: 1058
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So this is how you see yourself! :jumpy: Well done, great image.
Any chance that you'll torture your computer by letting volymetrics play with the stained glass? ;)I second that. |
Post by W!ZARD // Jul 10, 2006, 11:26pm
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Thanks so much for the lovely comments folks - it's very much appreciated.
Splinters; at this stage I'm intending a whole series of images of the interior of the castle prior to this one. As the castle enjoys (or suffers from!) a high level of residual background magical energies (not unlike Terry Prathetts Unseen University) these other interior images will be wildy different in character so they contrast in mood with tyhe relatively prosaic feel of this image - it's more about the feel of the place than the characters who will (hopefully) eventually get plenty of closer shots - this is all metalking with my directors hat on of course, no doubt when I put my artists hat on it will all change!!
KeithC, Mr Bones, Birdnest, MadMouse, thank you all - and yes, the candle light is a little over-exposed, thanks for confirming my own thoughts on that.
Steinie thanks too - and yes I'll put a yellower tone to the candle-lights - excellent suggestion!
Witchy, thanks for pointing out the broom - it is way too bright and I hadn't originally noticed!
Shike and Hemulin - thanks guys. I know that stained glass sort of cries out for some volumetrics however several factors apply that rule it out. Firstly this image took around 16 hours to render without any volumetrics at all. Secondly, the sun has pretty much set outside so there's no real bright point source of light and thirdly, I haven't yet figured out a way to do volumetrics in a convincing way that picks up the colours in the stained glass - I'm open to suggestions though!
And Hemulin yes fair call - this is sort of how I see myself - well my alter ego anyway!! as I'd like to be on a good day! Which leads me to to wonder what's going on with your avatar?
Interesting that none of you spotted the texture on the window frames on the upper left - I've screwed up the UV there somehow and the textures look all blocky! My bad! |
Post by Gavelsnodd // Jul 12, 2006, 11:46am
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Gavelsnodd
Total Posts: 18
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Hi, I realy like your picture, nice.
but I must say thet your statment in the bottom, ("Entropy ain't what it used to be!". ), is absolutly hilarious. :D |
Post by hemulin // Jul 12, 2006, 11:55am
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hemulin
Total Posts: 1058
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Interesting that none of you spotted the texture on the window frames on the upper left - I've screwed up the UV there somehow and the textures look all blocky! My bad!
I really didn't notice, and still don't, which area do you mean, it looks alright to me (however I can't even work out how to do simple UV stuff.
Which leads me to to wonder what's going on with your avatar?
Everythings gone dark, my puter died :( |
Post by W!ZARD // Jul 14, 2006, 4:19am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Hi, I realy like your picture, nice.
but I must say thet your statment in the bottom, ("Entropy ain't what it used to be!". ), is absolutly hilarious. :D
Thanks Gavelsnodd (cool name). I wish I could take credit for the Entropy ain't what it used to be tagline but not only have I plagiarised it I don't even remember where I saw it so couldn't credit the author anyway. You are the first person to comment on though and it sounds like it had the same effect on you that it did on me I laughed my ass off as the saying goes!
I really didn't notice, and still don't, which area do you mean, it looks alright to me (however I can't even work out how to do simple UV stuff. Chuckle - and it probably doesn't help that the textures I'm referring to are actually on the other left - which is to say, the upper right! D'oh!
Good to see your bubble monster looking a bit brighter!! |
Post by W!ZARD // Jul 14, 2006, 5:12am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Well! Here are a couple of similar but different versions - I'm curious as to what folk think now. I've addressed most of the issues raised so far, dimmed the candles a bit and changed the broom texture, re-UVed the window frames and tried a variety of different volumetric set-ups. This is pretty time comsuming as each pic takes 12 to 16 hour to render. I've used different background skies according to the angle of the sunlight.
So the question is, which one is best and should I try to increase the volumetric effect? Or something else entirely? I've spent so much time staring at versions of this I'm starting to feel a little like Hemulins avatar looks!
All and any comments appreciated.... |
Post by stoker // Jul 14, 2006, 5:16am
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stoker
Total Posts: 506
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I like the one with the volumetrics although it might look better if the volumetrics came through the entire window not just part of it..:):):);)
(atleast thats how it looks anyway - might be wrong) |
Post by TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb // Jul 14, 2006, 5:24am
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TheWickedWitchOfTheWeb
Total Posts: 858
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If I had to choose I'd opt for the second one. The lighting is slightly less harsh, especially by the clock and the volumetrics in the first one just don't work for me - there's something that just doesn't feel right with them. Have you tried a projector light or something on the stained glass one? That seems to be the bigger light opening but the light and shadows is concentrated from the smaller windows on the right of the pic.
Just my tuppence worth and it's not a criticism, just a comment. It's a great pic and there's plenty going on to keep you interested in it for a while rather than just a quick glance. |
Post by splinters // Jul 14, 2006, 5:57am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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I like the volumetrics but for me they work better if the inside is more dimly lit.
See here;
http://www.caligari.com/tsillustrator/slideshow/images/39Volumetric.jpg
Otherwise, looking really good. |
Post by Steinie // Jul 14, 2006, 6:05am
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Steinie
Total Posts: 3667
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I like the second one better too but I like the lighting in the StainGlass window in the back of the first one. I still think the lighting on the two figures has a Halogon light look. Very bright white with harsh shadows. A question to think about, what is suppose to be the main light source? Are they depending on the candles for their main light or are they supplemental lights? It appears to be evening light with candles used as their main light source. I wouid expect a yellow and reddish tone with shadows cast from the candles. |
Post by frank // Jul 14, 2006, 7:39am
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frank
Total Posts: 709
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Lots of detail!
This may be a silly question but...how in the world do they keep the candles going? They're waaaaaaaay up there. :) |
Post by W!ZARD // Jul 14, 2006, 8:03am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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I like the one with the volumetrics although it might look better if the volumetrics came through the entire window not just part of it..:):):);)
(atleast thats how it looks anyway - might be wrong)
Cheers Stoker. It's not all that obvious but there is quite a deep overhang on the roof outside which is why the volumetric effect doesn.t cover the whole widow.
Thanks WWOTW and yes I've tried various combinations of volumetrics and projector lights. I set up a new scene with just the empty building and tried a range of different methods. I have been using simple volumetrics only though - I don't know if the more complex volumetrics will work throught the window (an alphamapped plane) and pick up the stained glass colours or not.
If anyone has any advice or experience with creating volumetric effects through stained glass please let me know.
Splinters, a good point though your example is much stronger than the effect I'm after. Also there is too much detail in the room that requires light to be seen so I don't want to letthings get too dark.
Steinie - excellent feedback, thanks. I've already yellowed the candle light considerably as well as lowered the intensity - clearly I've yet to find the right balance.
frank - a good question. Actually it's not so clear in these lower res pics but the two lights high up the wall are oil lamps. I originally intended to put chains on them so they could be lowered for lighting and refueling and so on but then I thought - hey! this is a Witch and a Wizard - surely between them they can muster up enough magic to light a couple of lamps!
Perhaps not too obvious but there are also another cluster of lights just above the feild of view, hanging from the ceiling. These are the source of much of the ambient interior light. Thanks to the feed back here I cas see several areas where I can make some adjustments and improvements.
Thanks again to everyone who offered input. Watch this space and I'll (eventually) get yet another modified version out for your perusal. |
Post by Shike // Jul 17, 2006, 11:35am
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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Looks good ! :D
My volymetrics-method sort of depends on if you're a purist or not.
I personally don't like to have volymetrics on when rendering so I make one scene with the black background and only the necessary shadow casting objects with constant black material.
(instead of alphamapped, maybe create a simple physical window...maybe textured glassmaterial to make the stained windows work? )
Then I can render a volymetrics mask that can be composited with for example photoshop/paintshoppro/gimp(?). |
Post by W!ZARD // Jul 20, 2006, 1:15am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Hi folks - if you've not already seen it I've posted a completed version of this picture in the Image gallery. This link should take you there. (http://forums1.caligari.com/truespace/showthread.php?p=12408#post12408) Please check it out and leave a comment or two.
Lars thanks for the suggestion about the volumetrics, which I've only just seen. Funnily enough what you suggested is exactly what I've already done! Great minds think alike! I've not used that technique before but I've seen it used and so I thought I'd give it a go. It worked a treat and gives excellent realtime control over the degree of volumetric effect in the final picture. I will definately use this approach again.
Thanks to all who commented - most appreciated. :D |
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