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V-Ray ?????
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V-Ray ????? // Roundtable
Post by memevertical // Aug 2, 2006, 6:33pm
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memevertical
Total Posts: 20
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I'm sorry to sound so ignorant, but, can someone explain to me what exactly does V-Ray does?
thanks |
Post by JPSofCA // Aug 2, 2006, 8:36pm
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JPSofCA
Total Posts: 300
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VRay is a rendering engine written by Chaos Group (www.chaosgroup.com). It is well known, especially
for its blazing speed as well as an extensive array of global illumination methods that can produce very
high quality renderings.
VRay rendering support is implemented as a trueSpace 3rd party rendering engine. Thus it is fully integrated
into the Modeler aspect. Scene, object, and area rendering are all supported using rendering buttons.
Materials can be edited in the material editor with direct VRay rendering preview so you see the
effect of the material parameters, as the material will look in the final image.
There is, however, one important aspect where the VRay support differs from other trueSpace rendering
engines. Even though the UI is fully integrated into the Modeler aspect, VRay support is based
on the Player aspect of trueSpace. The scene description (geometry, lights, materials) is based on Player
scene graph and thus it fully relies on the Modeler-Player bridge for scene synchronization.
:D HTH |
Post by Shike // Aug 2, 2006, 9:01pm
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Shike
Total Posts: 511
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Should also be noted that the VRay-render-engine currently doesn't support all the shaders that Lightworks does. Procedurals like shaderlab and darktree for exampel.
But to compensate VRay instead has Glossy shader( blurry reflections) and SubsurfaceScattering ( to simulate how light travels through marble, skin and more) which isn't available for Lightworks.
And for each subrelease of trueSpace, we've gotten more goodies for VRay :D
(really looking foward to see what ts7.5 contains :banana: ) |
Post by memevertical // Aug 3, 2006, 2:47am
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memevertical
Total Posts: 20
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Does V-ray work with ts6.5 ??? |
Post by splinters // Aug 3, 2006, 2:50am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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No...TS7 only. |
Post by TomG // Aug 7, 2006, 4:38am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Prior to tS7, tS only supported one render engine. To render in other engines, eg VirtuaLight, required a scene exporter that read the scene info and exported a saved file with the scene in a format the other renderer could understand.
Things have changed in tS7 (one of the advantages of the total code re-write) and it is now possible to hook render engines into tS, and integrate them so that all rendering happens within tS itself, giving an integrated interface and workflow, and the ability to use area render etc.
tS7 comes with Lightworks and Virtualight, and V-Ray is an optional extra purchase. Of course V-Ray (and any other render engines in the future that may be integrated into tS) will only work with tS7 and above given that the code needed the re-write to make that possible.
HTH!
Tom
EDIT: PS, yes shaders are often render engine specific, since they read info such as angle to light source etc from the render engine. Procedural color shaders are in fact converted to a baked texture, so you can use those that work with Lightworks to some degree in V-Ray and Virtualight. Reflectance shaders are almost entirely derived from the render engine, reflecting the ray, angles from eye to surface and all that, and those cannot be baked to textures, so you'll find those much more sensitive to the render engine. Basically, you should build and texture your scene with an engine in mind, since you will use different shaders depending on your scene. You'll also light things differently too. So it is a good idea to plan for which engine you want to be using as you make the scene. |
Post by memevertical // Aug 8, 2006, 7:07am
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memevertical
Total Posts: 20
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in case i buy TS7...is there a trial version of V-ray? or the one's that come with TS7 like lightworks and the other one are as good as v-ray? |
Post by splinters // Aug 8, 2006, 7:10am
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splinters
Total Posts: 4148
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Lightworks is excellent and IMO the HDRI in TS7 is worth the upgrade alone-never mind that it renders quite a bit faster than IBL. There is no Vray demo that I know of-if you have seen Vray images from other apps, then Vray TS can do most of this although newer features are still in development.
As for Virtualight-I have seen some excellent examples of work but I do not use it myself. |
Post by TomG // Aug 8, 2006, 7:27am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Well, can't really say if things are "as good as V-Ray" - if one render engine was perfect for everything, then there would be only that one render engine :) So it all depends on your needs.
V-Ray is often faster than Lightworks, especially for the addition of things like HDRI. V-Ray has Global Illumination and Caustics, which are not in Lightworks. They are in Virtalight, but I prefer the interface and results of V-Ray to Virtualight.
I personally now render using V-Ray almost exclusively, so I prefer it to Lightworks and Virtualight. But there are others out there who will feel differently :) I find that I can get the results I want faster in terms of scene set up with V-Ray than with other engines, plus the render times are faster compared to the set-ups I used to use under other engines, so that's why it is my personal choice (personal choice though - that's not a Caligari recommendation, just my comment as an artist).
If you want to use GI and Caustics though, then V-Ray is a worthwhile purchase. Similarly it has things like Subsurface Scatter, a "soft reflection' shader, and Fresnel shaders, all of which are also good additions.
No demo is available since it is not our product but a third party product - also how do you create a demo of a render engine, not so easy, since people can start snagging screenshots and saving them etc.
You can always upgrade to tS7 and see if you are satisfied with Lightworks and Virtualight, and compare your results to what others are producing in V-Ray, and consider that additional purchase later for instance.
HTH!
Tom |
Post by prodigy // Aug 11, 2006, 1:07pm
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prodigy
Total Posts: 3029
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By my expirience...
You wanna make interior scenes, with exelent quality, bouncing lights, a scene full of objects and details???
The BEST choice in RENDER ENGINES its Vray..
http://www.caligari.com/Gallery/ImagesGallery/2006/jul/image.asp?Cate=GImages&img=2512&email=musikdoktor@hotmail.com&name=Augusto%20Michelis
I made this pic with VRay and TS7...
¡¡WOW A NEW SLOGAN!!!
ASK YOU, WHAT U CAN DO WITH TRUESPACE AND VRAY!!
JEJEJE SOMEBODY CORRECTS ME IF I WRONG... jejeje
SALUDOS PARA TODOS LOS FANATICOS DEL 3D...
EL BAILE DE LA BANANA....
:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: |
Post by Vizu // Aug 12, 2006, 1:11pm
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Vizu
Total Posts: 628
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Hmmm no one talks about Maxwenll.
We havn not many choice for the render.
The most TS shaders won´t work in VRay.
The most light´s won´t work in VRay and the renderspeed ist only fast with the simple shaders.
Don´t try to render with SSS or fresnel with softshadows and a higher samplerate.
See the Image from MadMouse and you can see what is possible with LW. |
Post by TomG // Aug 14, 2006, 3:23am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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"The most TS shaders won´t work in VRay."
Shaders are by nature render-engine speciific, particularly reflectance ones. The number of shaders will grow over time, but already V-Ray shaders can do as much or more than native tS LW shaders, even with less shaders :)
"The most light´s won´t work in VRay"
The main ones required for good realistic lighting all work - I've not found myself stuck because I can't use a a lightsource. Generally replacing things with HDRI will do fine - eg area lights, arrays of lights, skylight, IBL - I get better and faster results with HDRI in V-Ray, and / or GI, than with those in LW.
"Don´t try to render with SSS or fresnel with softshadows and a higher samplerate"
Why not? Of course these are slower, they are doing a lot of math. Used to be that to just get a shiny sphere, people would wait 14 hours for a render. We are kind of spoiled these days and view an hour as a long time for a render. Truth is we can render in 5 minutes what used to take an hour several years ago, and we can render in 30 minutes with effects that weren't possible at all several years ago, or we can render in 4 hours with lots of effects that we didn't even dream of several years ago.
Sure if you add SSS and GI and Caustics, guess what, the render time goes up - but so does what you get in your image :) It is a matter of picking the correct balance between quality, desired / important effects, and render time. Naturally things can get "slow" still depending on what you render, but not because the render engine is slow, just because there is a limit to what a given CPU can calculate mathematically (and some things just take a lot of math).
While it may be slow if you add SSS in V-Ray.... try adding SSS in Lightworks.... very slow, since you can't, and you'd have to design all sorts of ways to fake it :)
HTH!
Tom |
Post by TomG // Aug 14, 2006, 3:29am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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Oh and:
"See the Image from MadMouse and you can see what is possible with LW."
No-one denies LW is a good engine - if it wasn't, we wouldn't have it bundled with tS. And you can get fantastic results with it.
However, many people find it easier to get fantastic results with V-Ray - for instance, I could never match the talent that Mad Mouse has shown in getting that look from LW. I could match it in V-Ray though as I would find the lighting set up nice and easy to do.
And this is why V-Ray is there as an OPTION. For those who are already skilled in getting their results in LW, well maybe they don't need it. For those who find it takes them 12 hours to try and get a realistic looking lighting, well maybe V-Ray with its HDRI and GI will provide the answer - I know what used to take me 8 hours of tweaking now takes me about 30 minutes in V-Ray :)
It's the same thing as everything else in life - some people want, or need, or prefer, to have things a little faster and easier to create, and they can pay a little extra and buy V-Ray to do that. Others don't want or need that, maybe they already have a bunch of pre-saved set-ups that do great for lighting, so sure, they can stick with LW. Each to their own!
HTH!
Tom |
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