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camera problem - any ideas?
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camera problem - any ideas? // Roundtable
Post by davidjohnson // Jun 12, 2006, 4:30pm
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davidjohnson
Total Posts: 169
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I am really getting frustrated with this. I have a camera move that brings it close to a spaceship. But weirdly enough, the closer I get to the spaceship, it seems to not render parts of the ship! Even when the camera is a decent distance away (the camera is nowhere near touching the bounding box of the object), is still will not render out the whole object. This is really frustrating because I want it to get close to the spaceship, but I cannot. Any ideas on this? This happen to someone else? ts6.5 |
Post by Bobbins // Jun 12, 2006, 8:56pm
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Bobbins
Total Posts: 506
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Is this in real time view or when rendered?
If it's real time view then it's an age old problem trueSpace has with calculating clipping planes where the solid view detaches from the wire. The easiest way around it is to use a pure wire view and put up with it.
If not, a short anim or screenshots would help work out what's going on. |
Post by davidjohnson // Jun 13, 2006, 1:45am
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davidjohnson
Total Posts: 169
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It is in rendering, in realtime it is ok and shows up, when rendered - part or half the ship is gone, |
Post by Bobbins // Jun 13, 2006, 2:42am
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Bobbins
Total Posts: 506
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No real clues there - an image of the wire view and render would help.
I'm still suspicious that the camera is closer to the object than you think, because it does sound like a clipping plane problem. The only other thing I can think of are if you are using LOD (level of detail) objects.
Apart from that would be checking that the render properties aren't set to invisible, that the missing parts of the object don't have the face normals reversed and seeing what happens if the object is painted with the default phong material. None of these would explain why the model renders correctly at a distance, though. |
Post by nowherebrain // Jun 13, 2006, 3:02am
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nowherebrain
Total Posts: 1062
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is it possible some textures were animated(trans. channel?) |
Post by TomG // Jun 13, 2006, 5:13am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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It's a visual world we inhabit as 3D artists :) Some problems can only really be diagnosed with screen shots and images. Please post the before and after images from the animation that show how it looks when part of ship disappears (with the non-disappeared version being for comparison). A screengrab of the scene in wireframe and / or solid wireframe could well be usefull too.
Your camera isn't intersecting another object btw, for instance a starfield sphere / cube / plane?
Thanks!
Tom |
Post by frank // Jun 13, 2006, 5:54am
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frank
Total Posts: 709
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David:
Yeah, what Bobbins says about solid realtime view...that's one thing (and one reason I use good ol' wireframe) but you say it isn't a realtime render so...
The other thing would be that it's closer than you think, but it sounds like the camera is an obviously fair distance away.
The last thing would be that the camera maybe backed out of your starfield sphere, thus seeing the outside of the starfield, which would look similar to the way the background should appear. |
Post by davidjohnson // Jun 13, 2006, 6:05am
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davidjohnson
Total Posts: 169
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I will post when I get home from work. Yes, in solid mode or wireframe, completely visible, when rendered gone. The camera is far away from the model - it is not clipping it. When it is far away, it renders out fine, all the detail textures etc, but up close, about 3 camera body distances away, it starts to disappear and clip. Only in render. I discovered the problem when I rendered a long uncompressed movie - in realtime view, it looked great - when I rendered it out, the spaceship disappeared when the camera got near it, I would have never suspected it unless I did the render.
BTW, how do I attach a picture again? |
Post by davidjohnson // Jun 13, 2006, 11:26am
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davidjohnson
Total Posts: 169
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Ok, here are three renders - the camera view is rendered and you can see the distance of the camera from the ship. As I move closer, it clips the ship and then eventually it disappears. My entire movie is good until this point. Not sure why, nothing else is affected or seems out of place. I have tried different space ships and all the same thing. Any ideaS? |
Post by daybe // Jun 13, 2006, 11:43am
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daybe
Total Posts: 562
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Hmm, weird Never seen anything like that before. Have you checked the Scene editor to see if there is a keyframe somewhere around that point on say a light or something. Maybe you could post the scene and we can have a look.
Cheers
Edit: I guess it wouldn't be a light but something is interferring with the object. What does the wire frame look like at that point is the front that is missing a separate object? |
Post by Bobbins // Jun 13, 2006, 12:07pm
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Bobbins
Total Posts: 506
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Well, something is certainly clipping the ship - but I can't think what.
Have you tried deleting the sphere (I assume it's a skydome)?
Also, what about rendering options? Single sided v double sided, triangulate etc. Does changing those have any effect? |
Post by davidjohnson // Jun 13, 2006, 1:09pm
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davidjohnson
Total Posts: 169
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Again, I have tried with cubes, spheres and lots of other objects, always the same thing. I don't have a sphere for a dome, just a large plain that is far back. The weird thing, as others have noticed, is that there is no problem through 470 frames of animation, it is only when it reaches the close to the space ship that it starts to clip... |
Post by W!ZARD // Jun 14, 2006, 12:20am
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W!ZARD
Total Posts: 2603
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Just a thought here but have you thought about rescaling your scene? Multiply the size of everything by a factor of ten - the ship, the camera path (assuming it has one) - this would effectively increase the distance between your camera and the ship and hopefully would alleviate your problem. Not the most elegant solution I know, but if it works..... |
Post by nowherebrain // Jun 14, 2006, 2:24am
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nowherebrain
Total Posts: 1062
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Are your lights outside the sphere?, is your sphere's normals fliped or is it double sided? these could also lead to rendering issues- not sure, but I think player will show the lighting with certain lights. I am not sure that all lights cast shadows in player......(edit) I just read that it makes it through to frame 470 os something like that....maybe chop the animation in half and render the begining and end separately and merge them with editing software? |
Post by TomG // Jun 14, 2006, 6:29am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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If the problem occurs with primitives (cubes, spheres etc) could you remove any objects that are "private" and post a scene (ie the actual tS scene file) that shows this problem when you render it? That way others could test it and see if we see the same thing, and then we could isolate the cause.
Not seen anything like this before, so getting a look at the scene is about the only way forward I can think of :)
HTH!
Tom |
Post by Zeipher // Jun 14, 2006, 12:27pm
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Zeipher
Total Posts: 224
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Nope, I haven't seen a problem like that before either. If you could post the scene we could all have a look for you. Nice looking ship though... how long did that take for you to make?
andy |
Post by davidjohnson // Jun 14, 2006, 5:10pm
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davidjohnson
Total Posts: 169
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Got it from a free site. I was going to model my own after I worked out all the kinks. |
Post by spacekdet // Jun 15, 2006, 1:46am
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spacekdet
Total Posts: 1360
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I've experienced this same problem in a scene with close-by objects clipping/ not rendering. I also tried rescaling the entire scene- no joy.
I'd assumed it was because I had a pretty extreme wide-angle zoom on the camera. I was never able to render the entire scene without this one particular object (a handrail on a set of stairs- as it approached the camera) from pulling it's disappearing trick. I ended up having to render the object by itself and then composite the rest of the scene together afterwards.
Never did figure out why it wouldn't render correctly in the first place. |
Post by TomG // Jun 15, 2006, 3:57am
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TomG
Total Posts: 3397
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That is interesting, that the camera angle may affect it. I was thinking it might be along the lines of image size versus camera angle and similar, and was going to experiment if I could have a copy of the scene - no chance of posting a copy of the scene btw, it really would allow people to get in there and offer a solution, which we are pretty powerless to do without it. As noted, if it happens with cubes etc, then posting with just those is fine, and that way nothing is given away.
One thing I would be interested in for instance, if the camera was turned on its side, what happens? Would be curious if the clipping follows the orientation of the camera.
I'd also try different focal lengths - load up a new default camera and try that, without any changes to zoom etc.
Keep us posted on the findings!
Thanks!
Tom |
Post by Norm // Jun 15, 2006, 5:58am
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Norm
Total Posts: 862
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Seems to be a clipping scenario: far and near clipping.
If memory serves me correctly, diff vid cards handle clipping differently.
Not that this solves the problem, in a new scene, place a default torus primitive and locate at location 0 0 1
Bring a camera into the scene and locate at the same location.
Open up a preview window or switch main view to camera object. Move the eye a little and see how far you get before the torus "disappears".
Any view can run into problems with this.
You could search internet for info on Near and Far Clipping planes. It would explain what is happening. |
Post by nowherebrain // Jun 15, 2006, 6:23am
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nowherebrain
Total Posts: 1062
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But rendering is performed by the CPU. |
Post by Tiles // Jun 15, 2006, 6:46am
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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What about simply move the camera a bit away and zoom in instead in the frames of question? By zooming in you can display the spaceship as big as you need it. And the camera doesn´t come so close. When this solves the problem then it´s a clipping problem i guess. |
Post by frank // Jun 15, 2006, 8:03am
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frank
Total Posts: 709
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What about simply move the camera a bit away and zoom in instead in the frames of question?
Hrm... Zooming would look different due to lack of parallax motion that moving/trucking the camera would give. |
Post by Bobbins // Jun 15, 2006, 12:55pm
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Bobbins
Total Posts: 506
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Until davidjohnson can either post the scene file and or answer the other questions asked about his scene, I'm not going to speculate any further. I can't reproduce the problem in a render no matter how large or small I scale the objects and camera. I'm still suspicious there is some geometry in the scene causing the clipping but who knows? |
Post by Zeipher // Jun 15, 2006, 4:51pm
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Zeipher
Total Posts: 224
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A new topic will pop up somewhere else soon, and we'll still be stuck looking at this one. It confused me too much :( |
Post by Tiles // Jun 15, 2006, 8:42pm
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Tiles
Total Posts: 1037
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Hrm... Zooming would look different due to lack of parallax motion that moving/trucking the camera would give.
Sorta depends how fast you change the zoom factor while animation. And in the end you could even start with a stronger zoom and keep the camera more far away :) |
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