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Aug 7, 2001, 5:56am

Hi,

I have noticed that alot of people complain about the Cy Awards being a
popularity contest, becuase of the public voting, so i want to take a poll
over it.

This may not affect the Cy Awards Voting system at all, i am just interested
in knowing.


Poll:
Do you think the Cy Awards Voting System should be public, or should it be
an internal judging system?






LilAlpha Phalpha
Cy Awards Public Relations

Aug 7, 2001, 8:17am

You can have my 2 cents :) I suggest a panel of judges comprised of modelers,
builders, veterans and new users. The nominations for awards are made by
citizens. The judging follows the Olympic style counts and certain categories
have certain specific judging criteria's which you get points for like low poly,
texture on it, uniqueness etc... Those get a 1-10 and then those tallies are the
item or person's score from that judge. The total of the ten judge's will be the
sum to determine the winner. The judges can then view the work independently and
cast their final vote over a secure form that will post to the net so all can
see and view for honesty. Easy formail cgi to do. Judges could view in their
leisure and not all one day. THe judges should also be nominated as well as
qualified for their sector, (modeler, builder, new, etc) and their should be a
quick vote one week to settle who the judges are. Then CY's could be quicker and
not summer long as you can host three awards evenings and you appear at the one
that fits your schedule one of those nights via rsvp. In this matter of doing
things a judge would not need to be kept from entry in the contest as the votes
would be seen by all as they hold up their cards via the net.

And in closing... Having a bot MC with a pre scripted show would be nice... and
mute for all audience members... place a bot in there that the crowd can click
to send off lights or sounds... that will free up the chat for the people on the
mic... no where in awards does the peanut gallery speak and hoot... unless it's
the stripper awards perhaps :) Bot's could be typo less as well :) I nominate
hamfon to build the two custom bots :) and while he's at it I need a bot which
will activate via an av's seq commands :) TY *S*

And of course as always... bribes will still be accepted *S*
Peace and health to all *S*


[View Quote] > Hi,
>
> I have noticed that alot of people complain about the Cy Awards being a
> popularity contest, becuase of the public voting, so i want to take a poll
> over it.
>
> This may not affect the Cy Awards Voting system at all, i am just interested
> in knowing.
>
> Poll:
> Do you think the Cy Awards Voting System should be public, or should it be
> an internal judging system?
>
> LilAlpha Phalpha
> Cy Awards Public Relations

Aug 7, 2001, 10:22am

Do it both ways. Have judges (who do NOT have any entry in ANY category) award the CY's. Let the people continue to vote, but call the people's award a PY (for "the people's CY award".) Yeah, I know the word "PY" isn't really an acronym, but it's easy to say.

Acknowledge the PY winners during the ceremony, but have acceptance speeches only from the CY winners. No CY statues for the PY winners - perhaps a plaque or certificate object.

Think of it as having your cake and eating it too, or... PY in the CY. ;)

Lara

[View Quote]

Aug 7, 2001, 4:45pm

In all my years watching the cy awards I'd say about 70% of the winners were
NOT the best in their catagory. What was it last time? Some terrible world
full of poorly made facers of dinosours with plants and vegitation floating
off the ground?

For all the silly little catagories like building in aw and community this
and that they can vote all they want, but untill the judges for world
design (world design is not a bunch of aw objects, it's objects and textures
and their use) are experianced modelers I have zero respect for thier
results. Heck, if it isn't a modeler better than all the participants I
probably won't respect their results... and I don't think gand has time to
judge.

The cys are just like the academy awards... just a bunch of fun. An excuse
to dress up and go to a big event and chear your friends on to "win". I can
respect that and understand how fun it can be. BUT saying the winners are
concidered the best in aw with the tasteless masses of aw calling the shots?
These are the same people who build a zillion paintball worlds, the same
people who join the awa and other kids clubs, the same people who make
"houses" that are nothing more than a box of pp16s and get defencive when
you tell them it's of negotiable quality. As long as we settle that it's
nothing more than a bit of fun, and the results arn't serious, the CYs are
fine. And I know a ton of you cy people are going to freak out about what I
said and give lists to examples of winners that deserve it, but I only care
about the world/object/texture catagory, and as such it's what I'm basing
this on.

I like the old rating system of asking your friends "in the know". I'd
certainly value the opinion of one person with taste and understanding of
the subject than a million votes 'from the people', because with presidents
like George Bush and "best picture" awards going to Gladiator, I think it's
been proven that "the people" arn't very competent.

I feel I need to say SOMETHING positive about the cys... so I'll say that
although I don't respect it's results, I have very high respect for the
orginization, planning, and all the work that goes into pulling off the
awards. The vote counting, the webpage mantainance, and the whole
conducting of the awards ceremony shows a lot of dedication from the "staff"
running the show. And it isn't really the cy awards fault that the people
have very little taste or technical understanding... heck most of them
don't even vote objectivly, just for their friends.

Aug 7, 2001, 6:01pm

George Bush and Gladiator? LOL. Tweety Bird would say this: I think I
see a democrat. I do! I do! I do see a democrat!

Look at the area map of the US showing what each district voted for. Most
of it voted for George Bush. =P Yeah, I know that's because half of the
nation is crowded together in the large cities though. ^_^

SW Chris

[View Quote]

Aug 7, 2001, 6:03pm

Lara I totally agree with you. Excellent idea. The judges however should
be proficient in the area that they are judging in.

Goober King, if you're reading this, perhaps you should create a
representative position that will deal with issues for the Cy Awards. I
know that's branching out from the Citizen's Union's original purpose, but I
think it would work great.

SW Chris


[View Quote]

Aug 7, 2001, 6:10pm

accually Cy Awards is seperate from AWC, therefore it would have no formal
represenative to the cy awards under it's charter.

What i am attempting to do here however is open up communication between the
Community, and the Cy Awards Committee, and act at the represenative for
both groups.

LilAlpha Phalph
Cy Awards Public Relations
[View Quote]

Aug 7, 2001, 8:26pm

I'll have to agree with Moff Piett that the Cy awards' trust in the people,
although good at heart, are idealistic to say the least with the horriblly
biased and ignorant users that make up the AW Community. Half of them come
into the Cy Awards webpage not having a clue what to do and just putting a
ballot down for themself or a friend and then attend the ceremony and ask
"What is the Cy Awards"? I mean, winning can be running into JunoDome and
asking for votes from stranger tourists and citizens.

I've attended or tried to attend each and every year however and am always
looking to help out in any way at the Cys, because like Moff said, it's a
fun event, and not only that, it's one of the few remaining events that
brings the whole AW community under one world. So what if someone wins a cy
they don't truly deserve it? :) You know you're a winner just to be
considered, and I'm sure everyone else knows that you or the person who
really deserved it is the true winner.

If i were to propose anything, it'd have to be have a people's winner and a
judging committee's winner for every category. Maybe a golden Cy and a
silver Cy. The judging committee would be a variety of people, from invited
judges and experts in certain fields to regular citizens to people the Cy
committee owes debt to for helping them out. 50/50 ratio of experts and
regulars who are totally unknown to the nominees and everyone else, and all
it takes is just to fill out the same form every other user uses to cast
their vote, but their vote counts for the Golden Cy, not the silver Cy. Get
my drift? something like that. :) It'd be a cool new way to reinvent the Cy
awards until the user base of AW gets smarter. :)

Nornny

[View Quote]

Aug 7, 2001, 9:18pm

Actualy I'm not even an American.. just an objective outside observer. I
don't care how many people voted for him, just the fact that they didn't
vote for the super space communist galactic empire party shows they have no
"taste" when it comes to voting.

Aug 7, 2001, 9:22pm

I think it should be both. Many categories are not fit for judges, stuff
that only the community could answer (vote in this case).

Building-skill related categories should be judged, but other categories
like bots, spirit of the community, write in category, best web site, should
be voted by the community.

Why only building related? Honestly now, how many people do you think go
and thoroughly explorer every one of the building nominees? Bots and
websites are significant easier to vote on since there are a lot less and
easier to check out (least I think so).

One complaint about voting though..tourists shouldn't be able to vote!
There's way to many loop holes. I could get all my family members to vote
on their own private email accounts if I wanted. They're technically
tourists of AW so it's perfectly legal. Probably a ton of people out there
that vote and don't even know what AW is, too. It's also very easy to
revote - just reconnect to your ISP to get a new IP and change your default
email account and revote.


[View Quote]

Aug 7, 2001, 9:58pm

I think it would be easier for the public voters (like me) if a group of judges
did choose 3 nominees from each category, before the community start voting. For
some time there have been 10-20 nominees (I assume none who is suggested is
taken off the list at all), and the reason/description why someone is nominated
is often hard to figure. Often all you get to know is a nick and a set of
coords. I would appreciate to know a little more about the idea and purpose of
the build. Most builds etc are good, but not everyone who would like to vote
have got time to explore 50-100 locations to pay justice to ALL the nominees. I
normally check 4-5 locations, and if I like any of them, I place my vote without
caring about the rest. Sure, I'm ashamed...:|

I also would find it a lot more entertaining and exciting if I did not know the
winners' name untill the second they are announced from stage, eventually
together with a brief presentation on each nomination (more or less like the
Oscars) - well:)

I think public voting is benefiting the Cy's, but like others here, I also see a
point in having programmers, experienced builders, modellers etc. to find the
best candidates to make it more easy and probably more fair, too...

Bille

[View Quote] > Hi,
>
> I have noticed that alot of people complain about the Cy Awards being a
> popularity contest, becuase of the public voting, so i want to take a poll
> over it.
>
> This may not affect the Cy Awards Voting system at all, i am just interested
> in knowing.
>
> Poll:
> Do you think the Cy Awards Voting System should be public, or should it be
> an internal judging system?
>
> LilAlpha Phalpha
> Cy Awards Public Relations

Aug 7, 2001, 10:21pm

Your name suggests that you are part of that party. hehe.

SW Chris

[View Quote]

Aug 7, 2001, 10:25pm

CU I think just bit the dust. :\ I do know the Cy's are not part of AWC
and that's why I said having a CU rep for them was branching out a bit from
CU's original purpose. Just so you know. :) Thanks for the poll. Hope
you take Lara's suggestion and put it to some serious thought.

SW Chris


[View Quote]

Aug 7, 2001, 10:30pm

heh, I couldn't think of a popular american party to advise you all to vote
for, so I had to make one up in its absence.

Best advise would be to wait for the economy to collaps and Jerry to invade.

Ah Jerry.. what will he do next?

Aug 7, 2001, 10:31pm

Oh yes.. .forgot. Some other things you should probably address is better
vote retrieval system. E-mails work great, but only if the only ballots
accepted come from addresses from registered ISP domains, and NOT free
e-mail services. Anyone can sign up for almost an infinite amount of free
e-mail addresses and send ballots from each of them, proverbially 'stuffing
the ballot box'. In my opinion, requiring ballots to come from non-free
email services like Hotmail and Email.com would help contribute towards
legitimizing the Cy Awards (or the PYs, whichever you decide to go with.
;)).

SW Chris


[View Quote]

Aug 8, 2001, 5:43am

Well this is my feeling about it in a nut shell. Wether it is judged or voted
apon there is always going to be someone partial to someone in the community
that is going to win even if there was a panel of judges the same would still
hold true. It's still people judging your work and people using their own
prejudices to decide winners. I am simply happy that I had friends that enjoyed
my builds as much as I do to nominate me, and as far as that goes I feel like
I'm a winner either way. Having a statue may be nice but it ain't everything,
lol I get more reward when someone comes to see Elysium and goes "WOW" that to
me is all the reward I need :)


[View Quote]

Aug 8, 2001, 5:54am

Yes I totally agree with you on this point, no tourists should be allowed to
vote, there is too much of a chance for people to be deceptive if there is not a
citizen number to connect them to. This is how crappy looking builds win I would
say, lol I can make up 50, 100, 200 different email accounts and send them all
in under that instead of my citizen number which of course never changes. Seems
to be a good way to win something if you really wanted it bad enough, lol


[View Quote]

Aug 8, 2001, 12:48pm

Hi Everyone:)

Because of my workload right now, I can't elaborate alot on what all of you
have suggested here, sorry:(
However, I can say that alot of what you have suggested makes good sense:)
In the past, similar suggestions have been made, but the manpower and
knowledge to even consider executing any of them was far less than we have
today.
This round we have had sooooooo many people with various expertise in AW
technology come in and offer and will be executing some wonderful new
additions to the events.
This shows me that we can now move forward and look at ways to change the
Awards and impliment new things.
I have to disagree with the thoughts that past Recipients didn't deserve
their awards. Each and every person that walked onto the Cy stage, earned
their awards based on the decisions of the Activeworlds Community. People
who may not have as much experiance as some, but are capable of seeing
beauty and commitment as well as the next person:)
As far as a "hole" in the voting system....When I receive a vote, the IP
Address, Name on account, and Originating IP Address goes into an Excel file
and then is sorted by each column to check for duplication. I also look at
who the duplicate votes were for.
If I "sense" that their is a possible duplicate vote, I then email the voter
and ask for thier help if it is in error or if two citizens have voted from
the same machine.
With the ones I have contacted, each admitted to an error or confirmed
citizen accounts.
If someone were stuffing the ballots, I would think they would have lied,
and tried to get one past me:)
As far as people being able to go to "Juno Dome" and get folks to vote for
them...this would have been reported to me, and the Nominee would have been
disqualified.
I have never wanted to eliminate Tourists from voting because some folks
just don't have the money to register.
And having lived the hard life at times in my life, I have empathy:)
Anyways, please don't feel that your words are going unheard. we will
definately be looking at all these great suggestions after the ceremony:)
And pleaaaaaase, keep those ideas coming:)
Sincerely,
AlphaBit Phalpha

Aug 8, 2001, 5:54pm

Well it's good to know that the IP addys are checked in the case of using
tourist as a way to cast more votes. But if tourist builds cannot be nominated,
I still don't see why they should be allowed to vote. These builds are built by
citizens and should be judged by citizens, if tourists want to vote they should
get a citizenship, just my opinion but I think it's something that should be
changed.

[View Quote]

Aug 8, 2001, 10:35pm

I disagree. I know many people (my best r/l friend, Nitro, being one) who's
ISP only offers 1 email account, in which case the parents would use.
Thereby they're forced to get an account like hotmail, etc.


[View Quote]

Aug 9, 2001, 12:49am

How true. Mine offers seven but you gotta pay extra. Most of us are bold enough to just hijack the ISP account from our parents
though, heh.
[View Quote]

Aug 9, 2001, 11:22am

Public can nominate whoever. A select panel can chose the best 5 in each
category and then the public can vote from those. Much like academy awards.

It would be nice to limit the final votes to be from one's peers (world
owners vote for best world, object builders vote for best object, avatar
creators vote for best avatar) but that would take mega organisation and at
that level it would be a big ask of those volunteering their time. The up
side is it would sure as heck add prestige to the final winners.

Hmmm wouldn't it be nice to have an object makers guild, or world owners
society?

Justin


[View Quote]

Aug 9, 2001, 1:11pm

Tourists builds can be nominated...The rules don't state otherwise:)
We are considering starting a Tourists build awards thingy to inspire them
to register and move onto the Cys. Any takers for that project?:)

[View Quote]

Aug 9, 2001, 3:22pm

Umm, theres one fundamental flaw in that... Post a list of tourist builds somewhere, some asshole is bound to delete them ALL.

[View Quote]

Aug 9, 2001, 4:36pm

I hate to laugh but LOL Sure that would be great and very idealistic, I can see
it now tourists deleteing tourist's builds to win the Tourist Cy Award, lmao


[View Quote]

Aug 9, 2001, 7:52pm

Grrrrr...you folks:)
Anything is possible:)
For instance.....the Tourist emails me the locale and then we have a
selection comittee that goes out and votes....also....emails can be put on a
mailbox at the site anything is possible:)

[View Quote]

Aug 9, 2001, 10:03pm

Perposterous! LOL Tourist with the last build standing wins! LOL


[View Quote]

Aug 9, 2001, 10:46pm

Chucks:)....Don't make me Thwack you:)

[View Quote]

Aug 9, 2001, 10:53pm

One question...How many tourists do you think even know about the CY awards?
In my past 2 and half years in AW, I have run across hundreds of people, and
hardly anyone knows about organizations in AW, period. Then facter the
knowledge of a tourist into it and what do you get? Probably like a total
of 5 tourists than know about the CY awards without someone saying "hey will
you vote for me?". Weigh the odds - security vs. those very very few
people.


[View Quote]

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