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Jul 19, 2001, 8:31pm

Wow Facter I think this will go down as being one of the best things you ever
said in an NG post, LOL I couldn't agree more. Eep's ability to search and
destroy and attack anyone he feels is out of bounds then call the offensive
names is really too much, but I think you also might want to look at wing and
kah's postings too using very offensive language to attack things they don't
happen to agree with. I would support it if it was taken action against everyone
that used such offensive language in this NG. I think a good cleanup is in order
when needed and a weeks suspension would deffinitely get your point across.

> Eep, you are in extreme violation of this newsgroup charter, if you
> continue, AGAIN, after repeated, multiple, hundreds and hundreds of times
> being warned, to not swear or be derogatory towards others, then we may have
> to look into a weeks suspension from these newsgroups of yourself, and
> further suspensions thereafter. There will be no full ban, but I have
> decided that those who cannot treat each other with respect and decency in
> here will start receiving small suspensions to the effect that these
> newsgroups are a PRIVILEDGE not a RIGHT, and it is *no ones* right to treat
> others, no matter how much you disagree with them, as lowly as you have and
> continue to do.
>
> I think this is only fair, as you have just shown absolutly no courtesy to
> anyone in the past few weeks, not myself, nor any other member of this
> newsgroup, and your continual abuse and derogatory statements can only keep
> being tolerated for so much longer.
>
> One more from you like this, and I'll make you go stand in the corner for a
> week - stop being childish and you wont be treated like one.
>
> If anyone has a problem with these proposed part time suspensions, well in
> all honesty, too bad, because thats how it is going to be if things like
> this continue from him, or anyone. This is NOT a forum to attack or degrade
> any other individual, and I think its about time some people stopped being
> childish and realised that.
>
> Facter.
> AW Support.

Jul 19, 2001, 9:23pm

Well, actually, Facter's best AND worst thing he ever said was "Let's vote
to ban Eep from the newsgroup". of course, the timing was WAY off and barely
a person voted to ban Eep, but hey, better than this one week
treat-the-posters-like-a-child rule, although it might actually work. ;)

Nornny

[View Quote]

Jul 19, 2001, 10:11pm

mmm just a suggestion.... but can we make HTML posts against charter? That
may slow down the flame attacks on the html posters because it would be a
simple matter of "Hey, thats against the charter" and we wouldnt get the
dweebs that argue " i can if i want!"

It's pretty obvious that the greater majority does not like HTML.....
Factor, you held a vote to see if we wanted Eep removed and the majority
voted. How about a vote on a change in the Charter to disallow HTML?


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Jul 20, 2001, 12:18am

Perhaps we should make that part of the Charter rewrite. Hell, if Facter's too busy,
I'd be perfectly willing to write up a draft for him that could then be modified and
ratified by all NG participants. *WE* can set our own rules, and then AWCI (through
Facter) can enforce them. :)

[View Quote] --
Goober King
Or someone else can do it, no biggie...
rar1 at acsu.buffalo.edu

Jul 20, 2001, 2:39am

> Well, actually, Facter's best AND worst thing he ever said was "Let's vote
> to ban Eep from the newsgroup". of course, the timing was WAY off and
barely
> a person voted to ban Eep, but hey, better than this one week
> treat-the-posters-like-a-child rule, although it might actually work. ;)

A full ban was wrong, I admit that completely, and I admit that wasnt the
way to go about it.

But *temporary* suspensions are now in effect, everyones posts from now on
will be treated in the same way - derogatory remarks will not be tolerated,
by anyone.

I'm pretty busy lately with the new website, so I cant give anything in here
my 100% complete attention, but I will do the best that I can to make sure
things start going a little moother, and a little more civil in here.

Facter.
>
> Nornny
>
[View Quote]

Jul 20, 2001, 2:42am

> Perhaps we should make that part of the Charter rewrite. Hell, if Facter's
too busy,
> I'd be perfectly willing to write up a draft for him that could then be
modified and
> ratified by all NG participants. *WE* can set our own rules, and then AWCI
(through
> Facter) can enforce them. :)

Start a thread, discuss the things that need to be done and that you think
should be done with the charter - me and Flagg will go over it together,
and see how we can maybe go about re-writing parts of the charter. Also
placed in the charter, if we do re-write it, will be penalites, such as
temporary suspension, to go along with it.

Its no use, *maybe* re-writing the charter, if there is no way to enforce
it.

F.

>
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Jul 20, 2001, 3:26am

...i could go for hours about this.. maybe i'm the only one who sees things the way i do.. ppl don't take AW seriously enough.. and i
think that's why they cry when their demands aren't met.. aw is bigger then people realize, aw works harder then people realize.
People don't complain about many companies manipulating them, but when AWC doesn't give each individual client 100% of their
attention, they scream in a rage. I don't get it.

[View Quote] /Beardo

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Goober King presents many valid arguments in his July edition of "Stirring the Virtual Melting Pot". While there are several
improvements to be made to the Activeworlds universe, his article presents some serious flaws.

Goober presents a list of mistakes that AW has made in the past. He points out that gaining corporate sponsors is one of these
"mistakes", while charging for free citizenships is also a "mistake". Simply put, Activeworlds has to make money somehow. If
Goober wants AW to stop seeking corporate sponsors, then AW has to charge for citizenships; if citizenships were to be free, AW
would have to rely on advertising and corporate sponsorship. At least one of these steps has to be taken to ensure that the bills
are paid. Yet, there are those who believe that AW can continue to exist as a company without a source of revenue.

There seems to be a stigma that AW has poor customer service and does not try to help the community. In contrast, all of the AW
employees I have met in my experience have been very experienced and helpful. Lucrezia Borgia has never stopped trying to help
people; Mountain Myst has been visible in the community coordinating events and setting up activities like AWCamp; Facter and Flagg
have provided valuable technical support; and even HamFon has participated in many behind-the-scenes activities such as programming
the BingoBot. Yet, there are those who believe that AW employees are "out to get them."

Some believe that the AW universe is "dead and dying". In contrast, I remember a time just last September when the number of
users logged into the Universe rarely exceeded 500. Today, at the same time of day, the number is regularly between 600 and 700.
Yet, there are those who believe that AW should by now have millions of users registered.

If AW is not aiming to increase its userbase, then what is the purpose of releasing its upcoming version 3.2? Take the corporate
firewall support that will be included, for instance. Many AW citizens would like to use AW at work, and Activeworlds' management
is giving them this new option. Firewall support isn't just for Juno subscribers or for NetTaxi readers or for other Universe
owners, but for all citizens, as is OpenGL support. Contrary to popular belief, AW is growing and is taking steps to ensure that
its growth continues, and its partnership with Juno is supporting this growth. I remember a time when the JunoDome world had in
excess of 100 people occupying it during a Juno advertising campaign, and I know many citizens who started out as Juno users.
Furthermore, one of the biggest problems that AW (and the frustrated bot programmer) has faced, the discrepancy between versions 2.2
and 3.1 of the AW browser, will be eliminated with the upcoming software renderer. Yet, there are still thse who will complain that
AW is not taking steps to ensure its continued success.

Looking below, you'll find that there is an article about a petition in AW that is attempting to lower world prices. I would like
to ask the creators of this petition what lowering world prices would accomplish. Would cutting the cost of worlds make the
community closer? Would charging less increase AW's revenue so that it can further its development? Would eliminating the one-time
signup fee bring more users to the universe? Absolutely not. Instead, lowering world prices would simply increase the number of
dead worlds and reduce the number of people who actively participate in the AW community. And yes, there are also those who believe
that lowering world prices would solve all of the problems of the Universe.

However, despite all the positive things that AW has done for the community, I find that there are many steps that AW can still
take to increase its userbase, and ultimately, its revenue. First, a stand needs to be made against troublemakers and those who aim
to destroy worlds and to hack other users. Many worlds have been closed or hindered because of this sort of cyber-crime. AW needs
to enforce its GZ behavior policies, Content Guidelines, and other various charters and rules more strictly. In addition, AW
employees need to take a more active role in improving the Peacekeeping of AlphaWorld, as several of the Peacekeepers with which I
have dealt have not handled a situation in a professional manner. In my experience, some Peacekeepers have been downright rude when
I have contacted them, and their superiors did nothing to correct the problem. Most importantly, the company needs to moderate its
newsgroups. Many a user, myself included, has left the newsgroups because of a select few citizens who continue to post
inappropriate content that serves only to demean fellow users, ruining the atmosphere for legitimate debate. In fact, while I had
been aggravated by the arrogance of those citizens in the newsgroups for a long time, I finally decided to leave the groups after
Eep, instead of debating in a calm manner, flamed my posts on the subject of this article. In short, troublemakers both in-world
and out-of-world destroy the community feel which is so crucial to AW's success, and AW must take swift and decisive action against
them.

What do I find wrong with Activeworlds' management? In short, very little. Activeworlds has done what any company tries to do -
make money. While most Internet companies have floundered and become a "passing fad", Activeworlds Corp. has stayed around for over
six years, during which a tremendous technological change has occurred. Through this change, AW has secured its place in the 1% of
startup companies who survive past their first year, which in itself is quite a feat. While there are a few areas that leave room
for improvement, I feel that AW has, in general, done a good job balancing appeasing its customers and securing corporate deals.
Besides, AW currently has many community-friendly activities up its sleeve, such as new building worlds, an object maker for the AW
browser, and more events, for which Goober King and the citizens who support his letter clamor ceaselessly. If everyone would work
to make the community better instead of petitioning Activeworlds for what it is already attemping to do, then perhaps the Universe
would be a better place.

Jul 20, 2001, 3:31am

...which won't be lowered because people continue to buy worlds at their current cost, therefor JP obviously sees no need for them to
be lowered or any incentive for them. There are over 1100 worlds and i believe that over 75% of those are paid worlds. If over 700
people are willing to pay the current world price, I doubt they see any need to change them because about 100 of them (most of which
are unemployed) find the prices a little too high. You don't petition a store because you think their milk costs too much. You
simply don't buy it there. I don't see much differance. You can do virtually anything you can do in your own world, in a current
AW world. The "need" for a person to buy a world is non-existant, however there are 800+ active worlds. The petition is a complete
waste, and from a corporate stand point, the choice of weather or not to lower the prices is obvious. The sales of worlds are up.
Why should prices be lowered? If there is nothing wrong with something, don't fix it. The world growth is exponential.

[View Quote]

Jul 20, 2001, 3:34am

...and serial killers always kill.. it doesn't make it right. Rules are rules, no matter what the rhym or routine.

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Jul 20, 2001, 3:37am

I disagree with it being in the charter. HTML CAN (see, i could have added underline or bold to that CAN to show that i was
emphasing it and it would have added to the effect) HTML posts are default with many news readers, and banning a person for that is
a complete outrage and idiocy. The charters should discourage HTML posts, but not punish for it.

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Jul 20, 2001, 5:41am

kellee is just grasping at straws now, html is a standard on the web. You cannot
really enjoy surfing the web without it. Unlike using profanity in this NG, html
is the script of choice by many many people and no one should be temporarily
banned because their post is 1 or 2k larger than someone who posts in plain
text, it's ridiculous to even bring it up or to argue about it. It's not a part
of the charter and should remain that way. To be able to use html when need be
or for effect, is a viable option with some news reader programs. I think to say
no one can ever use it again would be a great loss for the entire NG. This is a
matter based on choice and preference and should not be brought to the same
level as using profanity to abuse people in this NG, that IS offensive to
everyone with out a doubt, or should we vote for that too kellee? Maybe there
are people who enjoy it, LOLOL


[View Quote]

Jul 20, 2001, 8:39am

"You don't petition a store because you think their milk costs too much."
If Active Worlds wants to sell me a world at the cost of what milk is, no I
won't "petition". I'll buy one for you too. Your analogy is a bit off skew
here.

[View Quote]

Jul 20, 2001, 8:58am

http://www.xrefer.com/entry/551194

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Jul 20, 2001, 9:59am

and why don't we point out that almost... EVERYBODY (including you) have
used some sort of offensive language here, why not take the whole NG down
for 2 weeks again? This is like saying that you have to kill all poisoneous
(spelling??) snakes cuzz they kill, but that's stupid, cuzz they're needed
for the ecosystem to work properly... look at Eep as a poisoneous snake,
don't kill him, cuzz he's needed to make this NG's ecosystem work... look at
all the lame newbies he chased...

KAH
PS. hey, this isn't a church or anything...
[View Quote]

Jul 20, 2001, 10:02am

you're wrong... check your facts before posting... any half-decent piece of
NNTP-software will have the ability to filter out posts that are posted, for
example, I use CASSANDRA (it mostly sux) and it can delete messages with
HTML by looking at the body of the message searching for the HTML
declaration...

KAH

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Jul 20, 2001, 10:05am

LMAO, kah then argue for allowing html in ALL newsgroups cause it is needed
for this ecosystem you are presenting.

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Jul 20, 2001, 10:06am

hmmmm... maybe you recently sent them a job application and want to sound as
you're on their side... if not, then you have a problem... they care 0%
about usual users, that's the problem... they don't listen to anything...
the AWCI is smaller than you think, and it could go bust any time... just
look at their stock...

KAH

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Jul 20, 2001, 10:13am

HTML would be like pollution, destroying the ozone layer of bandwith and
download times. ;) Everyone can do it, and sometimes people do, but it's not
courteous and very smelly. lol

Nornny

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Jul 20, 2001, 11:01am

And read up on how the ozone layer forms, you will see it isn't that bad of
a thing.

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Jul 20, 2001, 4:51pm

*rolls eyes*
Why is posting in HTML such a big deal to you. :-\
--
- Syntax -
www.swcity.net

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Jul 20, 2001, 7:45pm

yeah i know.. but it's the first thing that came to mind..

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Jul 20, 2001, 7:48pm

...it's because they're "usual users" own universes, and that is how they make money.. therefore that is where they will pay most of
their attention.. how we end up with ANYTHING we ask for at all is beyond me..

[View Quote]

Jul 20, 2001, 10:50pm

proof of what i say..... some ppl just have to argue against the PERSON and
not the topic.

Chuck your personal problems are your own, not mine, and they dont belong
in the newsgroups

regardless of who i happen to know in real life.


[View Quote]

Jul 20, 2001, 10:54pm

Why does a program like active worlds so important to you? It's just
manipulation with a Z axis against a 2d monitor presenting an illusion you
are walking through something. However, it is dull and boring to always use
smiley faces, and static avatar pictures that many other programs use so
Active Worlds rocks when it comes to enhancing our online time. So does
html, it can enhance our use in the newsgroup. If there is an area for
plain text only, and another that allows html, it can be your choice to
subscribe or not. You will always have the option to be in a newsgroup
geared toward plain text and not have to be in one that allows html.

You may find this a plus if you only want to use totally plain text, because
there will then be a system which caters towards your use. If you want
absolutism, you will always be fighting this issue. The only remedy is to
minimize not eliminate entirely. These seperate newsgroups geared
differently would be a fair way to minimize what one does not want.

[View Quote]

Jul 20, 2001, 10:58pm

"Chuck your personal problems are your own, not mine"

You started a post recently with a personal problem of yours, LOL. I just
don't get you kellee, or is it that you want a double standard.


[View Quote]

Jul 20, 2001, 11:13pm

um excuse me you are the one with the problem and bringing up things that are
completely irrelevant to the conversation, you always seem to slip something in
about discrimination or how this is about personal lives. You are the one doing
that, not me, don't read more into my posts than what's there cause you are
wrong. I don't happen to agree with much of what you say only because it is so 1
sided and you haven't even got the sense to investigate things before shooting
your mouth off. So I don't know why you think this is personal, but I don't like
your opinions. You may want people to just ignore the subtle abuse received by
you to people on this NG, but I won't.


[View Quote]

Jul 21, 2001, 1:34am

Meh. Plain Text gets the message across just as good as HTML. Sure there
are places when eye candy is nice but the newsgroups aren't one of those
places. I come here to read messages/news/flames for the info. I also like
to read/download them as quickly as possible. (I only have 28.8 modem, ugh.
The area I live in is getting DSL in year 2003.) When I want dazzling
graphics and coloured text I go to websites.

Ugh, if only there was a choice between an HTML format community NG and a
plain text community NG. It'd solve so many problems. Then people COULD
have the choice. If you don't like HTML, don't subscribe. If you like
HTML, subscribe. But until that comes along, the filter is the best thing
to solve the HTML problem. The only way someone would go in the filter for
HTML though, is if they _repeatedly_ posted in HTML over and over.
--
- Syntax -
www.swcity.net
[View Quote]

Jul 21, 2001, 1:46am

Not everyone wants to put up with it. That is the big deal.

SW Chris

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Jul 21, 2001, 1:50am

The timing was wrong. The method was wrong. A full ban might have been
wrong, I don't know. However if a person after multiple temporary bannings
continues his/her behavior, a full ban should be considered. Why? Well if
they've been temporarily banned several times and they continue to behave
that way, then it's probably pretty well established that the offending
person is not going to learn anything from the situation.

Chris


[View Quote]

Jul 21, 2001, 1:50am

That's like saying evil is needed for there to be good people.

SW Chris

[View Quote]

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