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Feb 9, 2001, 2:17am

Very simple folks. This is NOT a vote for or against Eep or Facter. Facter
is saying that he wants to follow the will of the community. Please let him
know your opinion, esp all of you that abstained from voting.

To stop
cit name- cit # - Stop

To continue
cit name- cit#- Go on

*Not happy with feeling like I have to start this thread. It's done in the
hopes of preventing a full blown fall out of our community if at all
possible at this point.* jeese, and even the stocks were going up, new great
3.1 version..... sigh....

Feb 9, 2001, 2:21am

Tony56 - 314753- Cease this Infernal Nonsense! (in other words, "stop")

--
- Tony56 (Tony M.) [chandler56 at mail.com]
"All typos are optical illusions"
____________________________________________________________
[View Quote]

Feb 9, 2001, 2:30am

I vote to stop
CarolAnn #291871

The word censorship keeps being brought up pertaining to a private company-or a
representative of one-denying a “guest”, paying or not, the right to spew unrestricted filth
(not just ideas, information and opinions). Is this censorship or simply restrictions placed
on all for the good of the whole? Remember this is private enterprise, not government.
The next time you walk into your local Wal-Mart with your mother or child and someone
walks by yelling obscenities over having to wait in a long line think about whether or not
you, or Wal-Mart, has the right to object or remove the offending party. You are a paying
customer after all..but so is he. Obviously you cannot filter someone there but you can
leave or quickly buy some very affective earmuffs so that the offender’s right to spew is
not compromised. Would you accept his mother’s explanation that many find his
language colorful and entertaining and that his complaints are valid? There is no law
against incivility (up to a point) but there is certainly nothing wrong with it. But anyway I
came to cast my vote, but not before giving it some thought. I recalled that in the 1 line
email I sent to eep correcting 1 spelling error, as I’ve explained in an earlier post, I
noticed in his extremely offensive reply (yes, by my standards...want to hear it?) that he
has also sent a copy to ABUSE at (my isp). Now, why did he do that? Did he want to
censor me by having my Internet privileges (rights?) revoked? Was it really abuse? I
realize it was his private e-mail though so I guess I cannot complain about his asking me
to not e-mail him..which he did not...but to report me for a spelling correction without
one warning or notice? Why not just block future e-mails from me? Happily they
apparently disregarded his e-mail because I am still online. I am just bringing this up for
those of you who are defending eep’s right to free speech. Hopefully he would do the
same for you even if you treated him as poorly as he treats some of the “inept” and
foreign born. Is this or is this not a forum for all abilities? If there was no one who
needed his valuable information would he then be needed? Then why does he use the
term “newbie” as an insult? These are just things I have thought about as I’ve read what
some of the more active and talented members of AW have said. I can’t understand some
of the ones who are so complacent..and even “reverant” about the way he talks but I do
agree that a vote might be less fair than a representative of the company deciding the fate
of any poster. Kind of. CarolAnn

[View Quote]

Feb 9, 2001, 2:40am

Since I abstained because I think that "vote" should never have been started in the first place:

Lara 60392 - Stop

[View Quote]

Feb 9, 2001, 2:45am

Xero 288529 STOP

--
-Xero

Feb 9, 2001, 2:51am

Lady Murasaki-313618-Stop


[View Quote]

Feb 9, 2001, 3:04am

Imagine 284220 I vote stop
The voteing should never have taken place in the first place.
It's up to AW management to enforce the rules they set, not the community.
Imagine
[View Quote]

Feb 9, 2001, 3:47am

[View Quote] > I vote to stop
> CarolAnn #291871
>
> The word censorship keeps being brought up pertaining to a private company-or a
> representative of one-denying a “guest”, paying or not, the right to spew unrestricted filth
> (not just ideas, information and opinions). Is this censorship or simply restrictions placed
> on all for the good of the whole? Remember this is private enterprise, not government.
> The next time you walk into your local Wal-Mart with your mother or child and someone
> walks by yelling obscenities over having to wait in a long line think about whether or not
> you, or Wal-Mart, has the right to object or remove the offending party. You are a paying
> customer after all..but so is he.

IS he? Did that person just walk into the store or start yelling obscenities while walking out after having bought something? One doesn't become a CUSTOMER until one PAYS for something. I am not a CUSTOMER of AW because I've NEVER paid for a citizenship, but I am an AW USER and AW CITIZEN and, thus, have the RIGHT and PRIVILEGE to post in AW's newsgroups--PERIOD. I am not randomly yelling (typing) obscenities either. There IS a logic behind my flames if you only bothered to take the time to try and figure it out.

> Obviously you cannot filter someone there but you can
> leave or quickly buy some very affective earmuffs so that the offender’s right to spew is
> not compromised. Would you accept his mother’s explanation that many find his
> language colorful and entertaining and that his complaints are valid? There is no law
> against incivility (up to a point) but there is certainly nothing wrong with it. But anyway I
> came to cast my vote, but not before giving it some thought. I recalled that in the 1 line
> email I sent to eep correcting 1 spelling error, as I’ve explained in an earlier post, I
> noticed in his extremely offensive reply (yes, by my standards...want to hear it?) that he
> has also sent a copy to ABUSE at (my isp). Now, why did he do that? Did he want to
> censor me by having my Internet privileges (rights?) revoked? Was it really abuse? I
> realize it was his private e-mail though so I guess I cannot complain about his asking me
> to not e-mail him..which he did not...but to report me for a spelling correction without
> one warning or notice? Why not just block future e-mails from me? Happily they
> apparently disregarded his e-mail because I am still online.

Your one-line email to me about my SINGLE-WORD spelling error was full of condescending overtone and smartassedness. You knew DAMN well you were trying to get a rise out of me and even admitted so in an earlier post of yours about the email, so don't try to come off as being holier than thou and innocent--because you ain't, bitch. I forwarded a copy of your ABUSIVE email to your ISP because the ONLY reason you sent it was to SPECIFICALLY provoke me, and that falls under many ISP's/website's terms of service (TOS) agreements.

> I am just bringing this up for
> those of you who are defending eep’s right to free speech. Hopefully he would do the
> same for you even if you treated him as poorly as he treats some of the “inept” and
> foreign born.

I would because I am strong enough not to hold personal grudges over moral issues like censorship.

> Is this or is this not a forum for all abilities? If there was no one who
> needed his valuable information would he then be needed? Then why does he use the
> term “newbie” as an insult?

Because it's the truth. Someone used to call me newbie all the time in these newsgroups, too, but no one seemed to have any problems with it. <shrug>

> These are just things I have thought about as I’ve read what
> some of the more active and talented members of AW have said. I can’t understand some
> of the ones who are so complacent..and even “reverant” about the way he talks but I do
> agree that a vote might be less fair than a representative of the company deciding the fate
> of any poster. Kind of. CarolAnn

[View Quote]

Feb 9, 2001, 4:48am

SW Comit - 297649 - Tuesday

Feb 9, 2001, 4:53am

Syntax - 308403 - Porkchops

Feb 9, 2001, 5:12am

casay

your posts have been reasonable but i fear for many the damage has been
done. Facter states in an earlier post that this action has been discussed
with his employers, yet even they fail to comment.
Facter and others also state that there are guidelines - or a charter - for
the newsgroups, yet I have been involved with aw for some time and these
guidelines have never been easy to find or easy to read. If so then all
submissions to the newsgroups should conform to the standard wanted and
mainatined by the organisation establishing them. Download just the headings
of the messages and you will see many ppl who have not conformed to what i
assume are the wanted standards.

In addition, we have been told by Facter that this issue was given to the
community to decide but in another post Facter also states this has failed.
On what grounds has this failed?. Here we have the most marked discussion in
this newsgroup in a long time and it indicates the AW community is clearly
concerned one way or the other about this issue and its ramifications. The
ambivalence that may in part come through in these messages is because of
their concern. Like or dislike Eep he is a citizen of AW - part of the
community and here we have an organisation consciously or unconsciously
seeking to use its consumers [paid and unpaid] to take action on something
they themselves have failed to address. In addition, they are using a
relatively new member of their organisation as the interface. If I was a
suspicious person I would say Facter has been set up to take the fallout.

For me this is a sad event because the management of any organisation ought
be held resposnible for informing its consumers of their part of the bargain
in service delivery and acceptance. The thread started by Takeover about the
vote of no confidence in AWCI and the fact there were a number of legitimate
points cited is symbolic I believe of this organisations failure to uphold
its part of the bargain. Part of which is notifying them of newsgroup rules.
Sheesh you dont even get notified of the presence of the newsgroups as a
normal part of subscribing. Its sad because we have ppl at loggerheads with
each other, its sad because it again indicates ppl's lack of tolerance, its
sad because again like the mute feature in AW ppl wont use filter, its sad
because ppl are leaving, its sad because we now have a questioning of
whether there ought be a news group at all, its sad because of the
demonstrated mean spiritness, its sad because this newsgroup ought like AW
reflect support and fun, its sad because it cultiuvates a climate of them
and us, its sad because ppl simply are not learning from this and that
includes both Eep and Facter.

I say let everyone stay or go as THEY want; let ppl have their say in
whatever way they like, simply use the filter if you dont like it. This is
not RL or a wallmart this is a newsgroup associated with a virtual reality,
located in cyberspace - a place where no countries laws or culture is
dominant. Let things simply be and use common sense.





[View Quote]

Feb 9, 2001, 5:27am

eep-please read again the quote from the e-mail to which you refer...if
the one line e-mail I sent to you was full of "condescending overtone
and smartassedness" then it was not an attitude, I copied and pasted
that spelling and definition right out of an online dictionary. I was
not trying to get a rise out of you OR provoke you or I would have done
it right here...read again! I WAS trying to make a point, in private,
without ridicule. It is the way I do things. You do not know me or you
would know better. Everyone doesn't do things the way you do. My
comeback to your vile terms for me was NOT the way I normally do things
though and I regret it. Kind of. If you would have only asked who I was
instead of interpreting for yourself who you thought I was, I would not
have to think about that. The term *newbie*, although it now has
negative connotations here, should not be an insult but a stage of
developement. Can you imagine if all the firsts in our lives were met
with the same *newbie* scorn? For example....take your honeymoon.......
I still would like to know what made you refer to me as a newbie? I meet
them everyday I am in AW and am gratified when I can help one in some
little way and enjoy the fact that some seek me out later for one reason
or another. If I begin to feel impatient I certainly don't let them know
it because that might alienate them from me and from AW...which I'm sure
happens often enough as it is. Some learn, some don't but at least I
know I have tried to help in a friendly way. I also find it easy to
learn some things..and not so easy to learn others and am certainly no
expert in all things AW..or even most, but whatever small help I can
give here, and my service to people in my r/l do not mean I don't have a
life, or whatever else that kind of attitude implies to you-as you so
strangely suggested was Facter's reason for his service-but it adds to
it. In my first 2+ years of AW I rarely have felt anything negative in
the "social" aspects of AW..but coming here and reading some of the
things I've read make me wonder if it's a "social" atmosphere at all. I
had no idea these kinds of things went on behind the scenes. I know I
could have stopped reading here but it was too late when I saw friends
being denigrated for no good reason. Think about it...if you can be
angered to the point that you often apparently are by perceived human
imperfection, and can then show it in the way that you do..can I not be
just as angered by purposeful infliction of hurting words on another
person just because you feel they are beneath contempt, and show it the
way I do?

[Once, by way of introducing myself to him, I corrected his spelling of
he word hypocrite (his spelling was hipocrit) because I couldn't believe
the irony of it.(eep replies to dennis13: " So why did you then post in
HTML, idiot? Don't be such a
fucking hipocrit.") I did this in private e-mail because 1. it was
certainly off-topic and 2.I
was not trying to publicly ridicule him, although I'm sure he doesn't
understand the concept. I will admit though I had a need to show him he
was not infallible. He came back with the vilest, filthiest names for me
that I could imagine]
[View Quote]

Feb 9, 2001, 5:52am

[View Quote] > eep-please read again the quote from the e-mail to which you refer...if
> the one line e-mail I sent to you was full of "condescending overtone
> and smartassedness" then it was not an attitude, I copied and pasted
> that spelling and definition right out of an online dictionary. I was
> not trying to get a rise out of you OR provoke you or I would have done
> it right here...read again! I WAS trying to make a point, in private,
> without ridicule. It is the way I do things. You do not know me or you
> would know better. Everyone doesn't do things the way you do. My
> comeback to your vile terms for me was NOT the way I normally do things
> though and I regret it. Kind of. If you would have only asked who I was
> instead of interpreting for yourself who you thought I was, I would not
> have to think about that.

Then perhaps you should have thought about it before emailing me, eh? I believe you used a smiley at the end and you did NOT just post the definition but also a snide remark about my spelling. Don't try to play yourself off as being so innocent, Carol, cuz you ain't, bitch.

> The term *newbie*, although it now has
> negative connotations here, should not be an insult but a stage of
> developement. Can you imagine if all the firsts in our lives were met
> with the same *newbie* scorn? For example....take your honeymoon.......
> I still would like to know what made you refer to me as a newbie? I meet
> them everyday I am in AW and am gratified when I can help one in some
> little way and enjoy the fact that some seek me out later for one reason
> or another. If I begin to feel impatient I certainly don't let them know
> it because that might alienate them from me and from AW...which I'm sure
> happens often enough as it is. Some learn, some don't but at least I
> know I have tried to help in a friendly way. I also find it easy to
> learn some things..and not so easy to learn others and am certainly no
> expert in all things AW..or even most, but whatever small help I can
> give here, and my service to people in my r/l do not mean I don't have a
> life, or whatever else that kind of attitude implies to you-as you so
> strangely suggested was Facter's reason for his service-but it adds to
> it. In my first 2+ years of AW I rarely have felt anything negative in
> the "social" aspects of AW..but coming here and reading some of the
> things I've read make me wonder if it's a "social" atmosphere at all. I
> had no idea these kinds of things went on behind the scenes. I know I
> could have stopped reading here but it was too late when I saw friends
> being denigrated for no good reason. Think about it...if you can be
> angered to the point that you often apparently are by perceived human
> imperfection, and can then show it in the way that you do..can I not be
> just as angered by purposeful infliction of hurting words on another
> person just because you feel they are beneath contempt, and show it the
> way I do?

You can be whatever you want, little girl. I'm not stopping you. But if you choose to fuck with me, prepare to be fucked with back. Dig? If you can't stand the heat, get the FUCK out of the kitchen...and take your low self-esteem with you.

> [Once, by way of introducing myself to him, I corrected his spelling of
> he word hypocrite (his spelling was hipocrit) because I couldn't believe
> the irony of it.(eep replies to dennis13: " So why did you then post in
> HTML, idiot? Don't be such a
> fucking hipocrit.") I did this in private e-mail because 1. it was
> certainly off-topic and 2.I
> was not trying to publicly ridicule him, although I'm sure he doesn't
> understand the concept. I will admit though I had a need to show him he
> was not infallible. He came back with the vilest, filthiest names for me
> that I could imagine]
[View Quote]

Feb 9, 2001, 5:55am

Sigh, this is reminding me of the old Eep. Sigh, you'll never learn no
matter how hard we try.
Casay
[View Quote]

Feb 9, 2001, 6:18am

I did think about it..and did what I did. Snide remark? What was it?
There was none. And that smirk? That was a smiley face...as in
"smile". I feel no heat, eep, I am not the fearful type...these are only
words after all. It is the
cutting, hurtful words you so generously dole out to everyone else I
take exception to. Do
your worst, it only helps bring out your true colors...as if they don't
already show enough.
But what's this thing with everyone having low self-esteem if they speak
up to you? I think
the opposite might be more accurate. I can understand people respecting
your knowledge but
deferring to your demeanor has to be the act of a coward. I could one on
one with you all
day and only be energized by what I know is right but this of course is
not the place for that
so buh-bye.
[View Quote]

Feb 9, 2001, 7:43am

rolu - 288153 - stop the nonsense!

[View Quote]

Feb 9, 2001, 9:19am

[View Quote] > I did think about it..and did what I did. Snide remark? What was it?

I don't remember it specifically since your email has long since been deleted, but I DO remember I didn't like your tone; hence why I responded the way I did.

> There was none. And that smirk? That was a smiley face...as in
> "smile".

Duh, I never called it a smirk. Learn to read.

> I feel no heat, eep, I am not the fearful type...these are only
> words after all. It is the
> cutting, hurtful words you so generously dole out to everyone else I
> take exception to. Do
> your worst, it only helps bring out your true colors...as if they don't
> already show enough.
> But what's this thing with everyone having low self-esteem if they speak
> up to you? I think
> the opposite might be more accurate.

Uh, your low self-esteem isn't evident in speaking up to me but by the long, drawn out explanation you gave below. Try to keep up and pay attention to where replies are in the text. This is yet another example of why you are a newbie--you don't know how to increment-quote, your message formatting is all fucked, and you're generally incompetent.

> I can understand people respecting
> your knowledge but
> deferring to your demeanor has to be the act of a coward. I could one on
> one with you all
> day and only be energized by what I know is right but this of course is
> not the place for that
> so buh-bye.

Indeed. Suck filter, snatch.

[View Quote]

Feb 9, 2001, 5:24pm

Stop, yes please stop. This whole thing is ridiculous. This newsgroup has never revolved so much about eep as it does now.

We need to forget this whole thing and move on.

AAsmund1 - 197583

[View Quote] > Very simple folks. This is NOT a vote for or against Eep or Facter. Facter
> is saying that he wants to follow the will of the community. Please let him
> know your opinion, esp all of you that abstained from voting.
>
> To stop
> cit name- cit # - Stop
>
> To continue
> cit name- cit#- Go on
>
> *Not happy with feeling like I have to start this thread. It's done in the
> hopes of preventing a full blown fall out of our community if at all
> possible at this point.* jeese, and even the stocks were going up, new great
> 3.1 version..... sigh....

Feb 9, 2001, 5:31pm

Move on? Yes. forget? No. If we forget, we have learned nothing.

Holistic1



[View Quote] > Stop, yes please stop. This whole thing is ridiculous. This newsgroup has never revolved so much about eep as it does now.
>
> We need to forget this whole thing and move on.
>
> AAsmund1 - 197583
>
[View Quote]

Feb 9, 2001, 6:02pm

how in the WORLD is this helping to stop the vote, I dunno. :) But I vote to
stop it (even though with this vote, I'm still contributing to the other
voting indirectly)

Nornny

[View Quote]

Feb 9, 2001, 8:07pm

ANduin Lothario - 317281 - Stop

--
AW Community Register
www.awcommunity.org/awcomreg
[View Quote]

Feb 9, 2001, 9:33pm

Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format.
--------------EEA13FD1D5160BB1ECEE6C2B
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

317278 ananas - RESTART the vote !!!

sniff - why can't I use <b>RESTART</b> :(

I should think about enabling HTML posts *grin*
--------------EEA13FD1D5160BB1ECEE6C2B
Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;
name="vha.vcf"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: Visitenkarte für Volker Hatzenberger
Content-Disposition: attachment;
filename="vha.vcf"

begin:vcard
n:Hatzenberger;Volker
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:oct31.de
adr:;;Bornheimer Strasse 15;Bonn;;53111;Germany
version:2.1
email;internet:vha at oct31.de
end:vcard

--------------EEA13FD1D5160BB1ECEE6C2B--

Feb 11, 2001, 6:42am

UEAK RaptorFox #304649-STOP!!

--
<sig>
UEAK RaptorFox
Public Relations and VS Manager
United States World Federation (USWF)
raptorfox at uswf-aw.com

"Chriss182: We aint nothin but USWF ganstas..."
</sig>
[View Quote]

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