The Petition's the Thing! (Community)

The Petition's the Thing! // Community

1  |  

goober king

Jul 9, 2000, 6:40pm
Unit Processing... Please Wait...
Initiating Rant Mode...

It started with a simple request to add a few already-been-made objects
to the AW object server. After much cajoling, ranting, and pressure,
they were finally added. Now it seems that petitions are popping up all
over the place! Petitions for furniture objects, contact list options,
and now raising the cell data limit. While all these causes are well and
good, they aren't really all that realistic.

The thing that made Just In's petition so successful wasn't because he
got a ton of signatures. It was because the objects he want added were
already constructed; all COF had to do was move the files onto their
server. But these other petitions aren't practical for COF at all.

Furniture petition: Unless someone has already made the furniture
objects you want added, COF probably won't do it. They've been
historically slow when it comes to adding new objects, and they've
already said they wouldn't be adding any more objects for some time.

Contact List petition: What with 3.0 Beta still going on, and it's not
looking like they're planning on changing it anymore. We probably won't
even see anything like this until 3.1, if ever. Considering they only
have two developers at the moment, we can expect development to be slow
to begin with. And I think that making sure that AW for all systems is
more important to them that the ability to make yourself "Away"

Cell Data Limit petition: Not happening. COF has also been historically
stingy about the cell data limit, and with good reason. If you have a
public building world as huge as AW, you'd have to be insane to want a
Huge data limit. Even now, with AW set at normal, there are tons of
places that are laggy as all get out. If you were to up the limit to
Huge, you probably wouldn't even be able to move! And for those of you
who think that people should just get a better system, try walking
through R Town some time and see how you fare :P

Perhaps what's most disturbing about all these petitions, though, is
that it seems people think this is the only way to get COF's attention.
And as far as I can tell, it just might be. Trying to reach them via
email or telegram is nigh impossible and their appearances in AW are
rare. How are we supposed to get any sort of customer service, when you
can't reach anyone?

Take heed COF: When your customers start tossing petitions at you left
and right, that should be a hint that maybe they aren't quite satisfied
with you or your product. But then, you've never paid attention before,
so why should you start now?

I say, instead of starting petitions, we need to help them help us.
Since it's apparent that threats and boycotts do not effect change,
(sorry Eep) we should try the opposite approach. Start getting people to
sign up for more citizenships, or maybe even buy a world. Find people
that are willing to apply for jobs at COF. Get people interested in
helping out around the community in any way possible. That way, COF will
have more resources available to them and, hopefully, make good use of
them. Then once they get back on their feet, they can afford to look
after our interests.

Let's face facts: COF is struggling to stay above water. With all of its
problems and bad decisions in the past, they are no longer able to look
after the customer's needs. So instead of bitching at them and trying to
put them under for good, we should assist them in any way possible. Then
maybe, just maybe, they would be willing to return the favor...

Terminating Rant Mode...
Unit Standing By...
--
Goober King
And if this doesn't work, then it's hopeless!
rar1 at acsu.buffalo.edu

=?iso-8859-1?q?eep=b2?=

Jul 9, 2000, 8:58pm
I remember when Lucrezia got in good with Rick and JP. Oh, lots of "community" things started happening and it almost seemed like AWCI had a person who would listen to its users instead of brushing them off like Rick and JP so often seem to do. But, people change...and Lucrezia has been assimilated into the AWCI collective quite well, it would seem. I think if AW had more close competition it might push Rick and JP to listen to their CUSTOMERS (not the occasional uniserver buyer but the people who actually account for most of AW's income: citizens!) and not act so apathetic all the time.

[View Quote] > It started with a simple request to add a few already-been-made objects
> to the AW object server. After much cajoling, ranting, and pressure,
> they were finally added. Now it seems that petitions are popping up all
> over the place! Petitions for furniture objects, contact list options,
> and now raising the cell data limit. While all these causes are well and
> good, they aren't really all that realistic.
>
> The thing that made Just In's petition so successful wasn't because he
> got a ton of signatures. It was because the objects he want added were
> already constructed; all COF had to do was move the files onto their
> server. But these other petitions aren't practical for COF at all.
>
> Furniture petition: Unless someone has already made the furniture
> objects you want added, COF probably won't do it. They've been
> historically slow when it comes to adding new objects, and they've
> already said they wouldn't be adding any more objects for some time.
>
> Contact List petition: What with 3.0 Beta still going on, and it's not
> looking like they're planning on changing it anymore. We probably won't
> even see anything like this until 3.1, if ever. Considering they only
> have two developers at the moment, we can expect development to be slow
> to begin with. And I think that making sure that AW for all systems is
> more important to them that the ability to make yourself "Away"
>
> Cell Data Limit petition: Not happening. COF has also been historically
> stingy about the cell data limit, and with good reason. If you have a
> public building world as huge as AW, you'd have to be insane to want a
> Huge data limit. Even now, with AW set at normal, there are tons of
> places that are laggy as all get out. If you were to up the limit to
> Huge, you probably wouldn't even be able to move! And for those of you
> who think that people should just get a better system, try walking
> through R Town some time and see how you fare :P
>
> Perhaps what's most disturbing about all these petitions, though, is
> that it seems people think this is the only way to get COF's attention.
> And as far as I can tell, it just might be. Trying to reach them via
> email or telegram is nigh impossible and their appearances in AW are
> rare. How are we supposed to get any sort of customer service, when you
> can't reach anyone?
>
> Take heed COF: When your customers start tossing petitions at you left
> and right, that should be a hint that maybe they aren't quite satisfied
> with you or your product. But then, you've never paid attention before,
> so why should you start now?
>
> I say, instead of starting petitions, we need to help them help us.
> Since it's apparent that threats and boycotts do not effect change,
> (sorry Eep) we should try the opposite approach. Start getting people to
> sign up for more citizenships, or maybe even buy a world. Find people
> that are willing to apply for jobs at COF. Get people interested in
> helping out around the community in any way possible. That way, COF will
> have more resources available to them and, hopefully, make good use of
> them. Then once they get back on their feet, they can afford to look
> after our interests.
>
> Let's face facts: COF is struggling to stay above water. With all of its
> problems and bad decisions in the past, they are no longer able to look
> after the customer's needs. So instead of bitching at them and trying to
> put them under for good, we should assist them in any way possible. Then
> maybe, just maybe, they would be willing to return the favor...

=?iso-8859-1?q?eep=b2?=

Jul 9, 2000, 8:58pm
I remember when Lucrezia got in good with Rick and JP. Oh, lots of "community" things started happening and it almost seemed like AWCI had a person who would listen to its users instead of brushing them off like Rick and JP so often seem to do. But, people change...and Lucrezia has been assimilated into the AWCI collective quite well, it would seem. I think if AW had more close competition it might push Rick and JP to listen to their CUSTOMERS (not the occasional uniserver buyer but the people who actually account for most of AW's income: citizens!) and not act so apathetic all the time.

[View Quote] > It started with a simple request to add a few already-been-made objects
> to the AW object server. After much cajoling, ranting, and pressure,
> they were finally added. Now it seems that petitions are popping up all
> over the place! Petitions for furniture objects, contact list options,
> and now raising the cell data limit. While all these causes are well and
> good, they aren't really all that realistic.
>
> The thing that made Just In's petition so successful wasn't because he
> got a ton of signatures. It was because the objects he want added were
> already constructed; all COF had to do was move the files onto their
> server. But these other petitions aren't practical for COF at all.
>
> Furniture petition: Unless someone has already made the furniture
> objects you want added, COF probably won't do it. They've been
> historically slow when it comes to adding new objects, and they've
> already said they wouldn't be adding any more objects for some time.
>
> Contact List petition: What with 3.0 Beta still going on, and it's not
> looking like they're planning on changing it anymore. We probably won't
> even see anything like this until 3.1, if ever. Considering they only
> have two developers at the moment, we can expect development to be slow
> to begin with. And I think that making sure that AW for all systems is
> more important to them that the ability to make yourself "Away"
>
> Cell Data Limit petition: Not happening. COF has also been historically
> stingy about the cell data limit, and with good reason. If you have a
> public building world as huge as AW, you'd have to be insane to want a
> Huge data limit. Even now, with AW set at normal, there are tons of
> places that are laggy as all get out. If you were to up the limit to
> Huge, you probably wouldn't even be able to move! And for those of you
> who think that people should just get a better system, try walking
> through R Town some time and see how you fare :P
>
> Perhaps what's most disturbing about all these petitions, though, is
> that it seems people think this is the only way to get COF's attention.
> And as far as I can tell, it just might be. Trying to reach them via
> email or telegram is nigh impossible and their appearances in AW are
> rare. How are we supposed to get any sort of customer service, when you
> can't reach anyone?
>
> Take heed COF: When your customers start tossing petitions at you left
> and right, that should be a hint that maybe they aren't quite satisfied
> with you or your product. But then, you've never paid attention before,
> so why should you start now?
>
> I say, instead of starting petitions, we need to help them help us.
> Since it's apparent that threats and boycotts do not effect change,
> (sorry Eep) we should try the opposite approach. Start getting people to
> sign up for more citizenships, or maybe even buy a world. Find people
> that are willing to apply for jobs at COF. Get people interested in
> helping out around the community in any way possible. That way, COF will
> have more resources available to them and, hopefully, make good use of
> them. Then once they get back on their feet, they can afford to look
> after our interests.
>
> Let's face facts: COF is struggling to stay above water. With all of its
> problems and bad decisions in the past, they are no longer able to look
> after the customer's needs. So instead of bitching at them and trying to
> put them under for good, we should assist them in any way possible. Then
> maybe, just maybe, they would be willing to return the favor...

myrth

Jul 10, 2000, 11:21am
I'd just like to give my opinion on each petition now. :)

Furniture Petition:
What Goober said, and if you are creative you can do anything with AW's objects. Search out Sojiurn's builds and you'd see what
I mean. Also, I know for a fact that due to the recent addition of object's to aw, it is going to be a long while before we see new
objects.

Contact List:
3.0 beta is obstructing this. Maybe 3.1 will bring it. This has always been on the To-Do list, it's not like Roland (the
programmer) is clueless. Maybe you can HELP him out by trying to find someone to fill the programming job.

Cell Data Limit:
Are you insane?! There is a ton of free land. Want to make a skyscraper? Build each floor apart from each other and make the
elevators use teleports... Geeze get creative.

Well I just thought I'd add my 2 cents.

-Myrth




[View Quote]

goober king

Jul 10, 2000, 11:22am
*nod* It's true that people change, and in Lucrezia's case, I'd almost
say irreversibly so. And some people who hook up with COF get
assimilated almost instantly. (Flagg, for example) But not all people
succumb to COF's trappings. Even though HamFon's started hanging with
that crowd, he's still easily accessible and can always be reached to
answer questions and such. (concerning bots, at least) And, my hope is
that he will be able to get a person in touch with whichever COFer you
need to talk to. (I have yet to test this)

And who knows... perhaps this new batch of employees (whenever they get
here :P) will be a completely different crowd from COF and won't fall
into the trap. Then again, it could just be wishful thinking.

Of course, one way to guarantee that won't happen is to find people who
you already know wouldn't fall for such a scam and get them interested
in signing up for a position. That way, we'll have our own people "on
the inside" and be able to get something done for a change. Know anyone
that fits the bill? :)

[View Quote] --
Goober King
Would sign up for a job himself, but they aren't looking for a Wed
Dude...
rar1 at acsu.buffalo.edu

goober king

Jul 10, 2000, 11:22am
*nod* It's true that people change, and in Lucrezia's case, I'd almost
say irreversibly so. And some people who hook up with COF get
assimilated almost instantly. (Flagg, for example) But not all people
succumb to COF's trappings. Even though HamFon's started hanging with
that crowd, he's still easily accessible and can always be reached to
answer questions and such. (concerning bots, at least) And, my hope is
that he will be able to get a person in touch with whichever COFer you
need to talk to. (I have yet to test this)

And who knows... perhaps this new batch of employees (whenever they get
here :P) will be a completely different crowd from COF and won't fall
into the trap. Then again, it could just be wishful thinking.

Of course, one way to guarantee that won't happen is to find people who
you already know wouldn't fall for such a scam and get them interested
in signing up for a position. That way, we'll have our own people "on
the inside" and be able to get something done for a change. Know anyone
that fits the bill? :)

[View Quote] --
Goober King
Would sign up for a job himself, but they aren't looking for a Wed
Dude...
rar1 at acsu.buffalo.edu

just in

Jul 10, 2000, 11:23am
That was a particularly well written rant, and I agree with all of it.

I would like to see those at AWCI with certain positions follow the lead of
Roland Vilett (and Mr Crowle - Hamfon) with his weekly tech talk.

Tom (Flagg - Customer Service) should be holding a weekly community meeting
(covering the various communities AWCC WAG AWHS PK GK etc etc)

Mandee (Lucrezia - Education Technology) should hold a weekly education
meeting (covering AWSchool, AWUniv 1 2 and 3, and the EduWorld Universe)

Shamus (Young Shamus - World Development) and Bill (Calpantera - Technical
Support) could team up to hold a weekly object and texture building lecture
(resolving queries about those and other things for world builders).

In addition, Tom and Mandee should be very active in the community
newsgroup, and Shamus and Bill should be active in the worldbuilders
newsgroup.

We really see very little of AWCI staff outside of Roland, which gives users
the impression they aren't doing anything. Whilst I don't expect AWCI CEO
or FEO to be "mixing it" with the users, those others I mentioned above I
think do have an obligation to the users just by looking at their job
titles.

All this would be very nice, but judging by previous example it won't
happen. At least not immediately - things may change when the AWCI
recruitment drive is complete and there are more personnel to share the
load. We can only hope. In the meantime, writing petitions is next to
useless. As Goober mention, my "petition" was not a petition at all... it
was a "nag to death" strategy on something already planned and accepted that
just needed some final button pushing done.

Regards, Justin


[View Quote]

john viper

Jul 11, 2000, 11:40pm
<snip>
| Whilst I don't expect AWCI CEO
| or FEO to be "mixing it" with the users.....
<snip>

Just out of curiosity, who actually owns AWCI anyway?

-JV

=?iso-8859-1?q?eep=b2?=

Jul 11, 2000, 11:41pm
[View Quote] > *nod* It's true that people change, and in Lucrezia's case, I'd almost
> say irreversibly so. And some people who hook up with COF get
> assimilated almost instantly. (Flagg, for example) But not all people
> succumb to COF's trappings. Even though HamFon's started hanging with
> that crowd, he's still easily accessible and can always be reached to
> answer questions and such. (concerning bots, at least) And, my hope is
> that he will be able to get a person in touch with whichever COFer you
> need to talk to. (I have yet to test this)
>
> And who knows... perhaps this new batch of employees (whenever they get
> here :P) will be a completely different crowd from COF and won't fall
> into the trap. Then again, it could just be wishful thinking.
>
> Of course, one way to guarantee that won't happen is to find people who
> you already know wouldn't fall for such a scam and get them interested
> in signing up for a position. That way, we'll have our own people "on
> the inside" and be able to get something done for a change. Know anyone
> that fits the bill? :)

Yea, me. But Rick ignored my telegrams about the 3D modeler position...<shrug>

[View Quote]

just in

Jul 12, 2000, 11:19am
The owners are the shareholders.

The directors are Rick Noll (ENZO - President/CEO) and JP McCormick
(Cryonics - Chairman/CFO)

- Justin

[View Quote]

just in

Jul 12, 2000, 11:19am
The owners are the shareholders.

The directors are Rick Noll (ENZO - President/CEO) and JP McCormick
(Cryonics - Chairman/CFO)

- Justin

[View Quote]

goober king

Jul 12, 2000, 11:19am
I would think it rather hard to send a resume via telegram. ;)

[View Quote] --
Goober King
Email works....
rar1 at acsu.buffalo.edu

goober king

Jul 12, 2000, 11:19am
Umm, I would think AWCI owns AWCI... good ol' Rick Noll and J.P.
McCormick...

[View Quote] --
Goober King
Is that a trick question?
rar1 at acsu.buffalo.edu

=?iso-8859-1?q?eep=b2?=

Jul 13, 2000, 11:20am
No. Because AWCI is incorporated in Delaware, Delaware Corporation Law states that shareholders have NO say over the company, so they don't own it. Rick, JP, and Vanguard Enterprises (who effectively bought then-COF) own AWCI.

[View Quote] > The owners are the shareholders.
>
> The directors are Rick Noll (ENZO - President/CEO) and JP McCormick
> (Cryonics - Chairman/CFO)
>
[View Quote]

=?iso-8859-1?q?eep=b2?=

Jul 13, 2000, 11:20am
[View Quote] > I would think it rather hard to send a resume via telegram. ;)

I telegrammed Rick ABOUT the position. Read more carefully.

[View Quote] So do eyes...

goober king

Jul 13, 2000, 3:24pm
Sorry, I had taken it to mean you actually wanted to *apply* for the
job. After all, that's what my point was in my previous post: that we
need people to apply for these jobs, not just ask questions. My
mistake...

Still, I bet if you send in a resume, you'll get a response a lot
quicker. :)

[View Quote] --
Goober King
Eep working for COF? What was I thinking?!
rar1 at acsu.buffalo.edu

=?iso-8859-1?q?eep=b2?=

Jul 14, 2000, 9:54am
[View Quote] > Sorry, I had taken it to mean you actually wanted to *apply* for the
> job. After all, that's what my point was in my previous post: that we
> need people to apply for these jobs, not just ask questions. My
> mistake...

Um, I did. Hence why I wanted to see if I even had a chance! Read, please...this isn't quantum physics...

> Still, I bet if you send in a resume, you'll get a response a lot
> quicker. :)

Why would I want to give a company all my work history, educational background, and knowledge history when I have NO chance at getting the position? Uh...think, Goober...

[View Quote] You think? Coulda fooled me!

goober king

Jul 14, 2000, 7:42pm
Where I come from, when one wants to try for a job, they send in their
application first and then ask all the questions they want during the
interview. Maybe it's different in your neck of the woods...

And how do you know you don't stand a chance? If you've got the
qualifications, that should be enough. You said so yourself, Rick never
answered your queries, so you don't know until you try.

[View Quote] --
Goober King
That makes two of us...
rar1 at acsu.buffalo.edu

sw comit

Jul 15, 2000, 4:49pm
Oh jeeze myrth, no offense, but your skyscraper idea sounds real gay, and
yes, there is a ton of land, but you can't do much with it, unless your a
real smart builder.

[View Quote]

=?iso-8859-1?q?eep=b2?=

Jul 15, 2000, 4:49pm
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Lines: 69
X-Authenticated-User: eep
X-RCPT-TO: <moderator at activeworlds.com>
X-UIDL: 1191
Status: U

Do I need to smack you? Rick and JP KNOW my qualifications--they've seen my work; I talked to Shamus about the position and he said so himself. They just don't like my attitude towards them (can you blame me for their level of incompetence?!) but when it would come to 3D modelling I wouldn't let that interfere with my work. Anyway, it's a dead issue now as I already have a job.

[View Quote] > Where I come from, when one wants to try for a job, they send in their
> application first and then ask all the questions they want during the
> interview. Maybe it's different in your neck of the woods...
>
> And how do you know you don't stand a chance? If you've got the
> qualifications, that should be enough. You said so yourself, Rick never
> answered your queries, so you don't know until you try.
>
[View Quote]

myrth

Jul 17, 2000, 1:41pm
Exactly, stop wasting time with petitions and learn to be a freaking smart builder.

-Myrth

[View Quote]

decade

Jul 17, 2000, 1:42pm
As an outsider, it looks like your the one in need of a smack eep. Did you
tell your present employer he had it all wrong, was heading in the wrong
direction, and should bring back old personel? No? Maybe you should see what
it gets you - of course say that your opinion of him won't affect your
perfomance, he'll love that.

What you've (hopefully) learned may be a lesson of value later in life. I
think it goes, "Don't burn the bridges in front of you."

[View Quote]

decade

Jul 17, 2000, 5:00pm
For the time and effort they take to complete, petitions are a great way to
collect feedback.

Many citizens would rather play in aw than get involved in newsgroups. I'd
guess that we are the uncommon (read "weird") users, our opinions don't
necessarily reflect the general citizenship. Petitions do that to a much
greater extent.

Aw needs feedback to be able to please its users, that's why we're here. But
imho, petitions are better. If you don't agree with a petition's priorities,
don't sign. Any logistical problems with a petition can be dealt with at
awcom - not every desire is possible to fullfill, but knowing what the
desires are is of utmost importance.

[View Quote]

goober king

Jul 17, 2000, 7:29pm
I'm not disagreeing with you. Heck, if it wasn't for the fact that COF
hasn't paid attention to it's customers since it acquired AW, I would be
having a petition every other week!

The problem is, no matter how noble the cause, no matter how many
signatures you gather, it ain't gonna make a lick of difference. You can
ship it to Massachusetts by Overnight Priority Mail, and they'll still
ignore it. They have consistently ignored all attempts at
communications, whether it's here in the newsgroups, or via email or
telegram. Therefore, petitioning is useless until they get their act
together.

Here's hoping their new batch of employees will do the trick...

[View Quote] --
Goober King
PO'ed, KO'ed, and FU'ed...
rar1 at acsu.buffalo.edu

nornny

Jul 17, 2000, 9:37pm
Speaking of which, does anyone know the status of the new employees? It
looks like no one has applied yet. Either that, or COF is also ignoring
applicants. hehe, darn shame though if they are.

Nornny

[View Quote]

decade

Jul 18, 2000, 3:12pm
I wrote a little game a while back (I'm no George Lucas, I really mean
little) and had a kid playtest it for me. He kept coming up with suggestions
that would have me rewrite the whole rules and rules concept to implement,
but he had no understanding of this. Every message ended with, "I guess this
must be hard, huh?" lol Even when I used his ideas as close as possible
within the constraints of the platform, he refused to acnowledge the
similarity. He had a particular goal in mind and anything short of it was
invisible.

Technically I could have stripped everything and rebuilt under his guidance,
if I had time and inclination, but the fact remained that he was invited to
make _suggestions_ not demands :-)

My point? Maybe I don't have one. I haven't been around long enough to guess
what's going on.

[View Quote]

nornny

Jul 19, 2000, 6:31pm
lol, I think you're trying to say is that maybe the community doesn't
understand what the AW people go through to make things work. Something as
little as adding a code line here might be MUCH more difficult than that,
possibly causing contradictions, bugs, who knows. Or the AW staff is
pleasantly pleased with their goals and views, and don't need community
input right now. After all, this isn't their job, it really is something
they love to do, so why force them to change what they have worked 5 years
on creating. They deserve the power in a way, and they'd prolly be happy if
only 10 people used their program. besides, I say if you want something
changed, EDUCATE! :) There's thousands and thousands of AW users out there,
only about 100 or so post here in this newgroup, go out and form groups and
influence as many people as you can for a change. Start a debate group in
AW, and talk about the subject, invite AW staffers to come in and give their
views. I mean, you USA guys like me live in a country where it seems like
nothing seems to get done, yet you still live in it for certain goodies that
come out of living in a free country. :) AW is not afraid of losing one or
two people, because they know they're growing enough to gain 5 or 6 people
for every one person loss. :) And that 5 or 6 newcomers are ignorant to the
big issues anyways, so hence why you have to "get to them" ASAP. :) hehe. Do
I make sense?

Nornny

=?iso-8859-1?q?eep=b2?=

Jul 20, 2000, 2:43pm
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Status: R

It really doesn't matter if I get a job with AWCI or not--hence why I telegrammed Rick to see if I even had a chance. Pay attention, sport...or do I need to smack you too?

[View Quote] > As an outsider, it looks like your the one in need of a smack eep. Did you
> tell your present employer he had it all wrong, was heading in the wrong
> direction, and should bring back old personel? No? Maybe you should see what
> it gets you - of course say that your opinion of him won't affect your
> perfomance, he'll love that.
>
> What you've (hopefully) learned may be a lesson of value later in life. I
> think it goes, "Don't burn the bridges in front of you."
>

bitmaster

Jul 20, 2000, 11:11pm
I know what job you could apply for, Eep, and possibly get the job!!
How about a job for the WWW as a PR person? :)
(Couldn't help it.. hehehe.. ) Driving through ............
Bits
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eep²" <eep at tnlc.com>
Newsgroups: community
To: <moderator at activeworlds.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2000 12:43 PM
Subject: Re: The Job's the Thing! (was Re: The Petition's the Thing!)


: It really doesn't matter if I get a job with AWCI or not--hence why I
telegrammed Rick to see if I even had a chance. Pay attention,
sport...or do I need to smack you too?

<snip>

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