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May 27, 2003, 4:43am

is it possible to cut holes in objects using rwmodeler?

I know how to do this in true space, but true space can't open a rwx file,
so I used AccuTrans to convert the rwx to a cob file so I could load it into
true space and cut the hole.
But when I do this, true space wont cut the hole in it saying.
The object is not a solid.
Can't do boolean operation.
Change the relative positions of the objects or change the boolean
precision.

Any ideas?

May 27, 2003, 6:56am

do you use the primitivs to this? if not what tool do you use?

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May 27, 2003, 7:45am

primitivs?

to make a hole in true space all I do is create a second object and mold it
to the shape of the hole I want, then I put it into the main object leaving
some stick out on both sides then use the object subtraction tool removing
the second object leaving a hole in the main object.

to convert rwx to cob in AccuTrans I just open the rwx file then without
doing anything to it, I resave it as a cob file then open that cob file in
true space.



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May 27, 2003, 8:13am

Primitivs is the tools I use to create hole, I did load in several rwx
objects to reproduce what you say, and I could't
http://www.pangle.no/objects/turtorial/tengwall02.html

this is contune on that first one I made, and you see I use primitivs tolls
here.

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May 27, 2003, 9:27am

You may have to reverse the normals on the object you're trying to cut a
hole into. I have no idea how you do that in TrueSpace, so look through
the help files for "normals" and see if that helps...

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--
Goober King
Reversed abnormals
gooberking at utn.cjb.net

May 27, 2003, 9:29am

What version of TrueSpace are you using Anne? There is a plugin tool called
solidify that was supported for TS2-4. I'm not certain it would work for
TS5 or 6. Usually this will make any imported conversion a solid object with
a single click of a button. Try www.primitiveitch.com for a whole list of
useful free plugins for your program.




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May 27, 2003, 9:34am

Scratch primitiveitch.com, lol. They no longer seem to have it on their
website. Caligari has it on this page:
http://www.caligari.com/products/trueSpace/ts5/Plugins/free/default.asp?Cate=Free


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May 27, 2003, 5:28pm

To answer your question about cutting holes in rwxmodeler. Yes it is
possible to make a hole, of sorts, in an object in rwxmodeler. But it is a
major pain in the rump. And would take a lot of explaining one on one. :)

Imagine


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May 27, 2003, 7:31pm

Ah, the joys of Truespace. *laughs* I don't know how many times I've
wanted to yank my hair out from Truespace telling me it "can't" do something
I needed it to! Not to mention the times it goes and does something I don't
want it to do and then tells me it can't "undo" it. *grins* Lady M has the
best suggestion so far. In the end though, depending how complex the object
is that you are cutting into, or of the one you are using to cut the hole,
TS sometimes will not cut the hole. My best advice: experiment with
different approaches to see what it will allow. Sometimes it won't allow you
to cut with an object composed of small objects glued together, but if you
boolean them with union, then use the subtraction boolean, it will work. If
the object to be cut is made up of individual pieces, unglue them and
boolean them separately. Sometimes, just moving either object slightly will
allow booleans. For TS, booleans are one of the hardest things for it to do
right..... UV mapping is it's second. It comes down to mostly trying to
outsmart TS and work within it's limits. Keep at it though....and always
save before you do any boolean (I had to learn this one the hard way...many
times). I hope it works out for you :)

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May 28, 2003, 12:26pm

On 27 May 2003 02:43:17 -0400, "dlp anne" <anne at dreamlandpark.com>
[View Quote] >is it possible to cut holes in objects using rwmodeler?
>
>I know how to do this in true space, but true space can't open a rwx file,
>so I used AccuTrans to convert the rwx to a cob file so I could load it into
>true space and cut the hole.
>But when I do this, true space wont cut the hole in it saying.
>The object is not a solid.
>Can't do boolean operation.
>Change the relative positions of the objects or change the boolean
>precision.
>
>Any ideas?
>

If an object has holes, many modelers will not apply boolean
subtraction to it. It may be that the RWX was missing faces (already
had a hole), or that Accutrans dropped faces or inverted a normal
while triangulating (happens somtimes).

You can try cleaning up your RWX model and triangulating it with the
latest version of my RWXThing before loading it in Accutrans, it may
just happen that that fixes the problem (or not)

RWXThing 4.4 can be found here:
http://www.imatowns.com/xelagot/links.html

Alex

May 28, 2003, 1:05pm

Another idea is to forbid accutrans to split the clumps per material.
When accutrans splits per material, it creates sub-clumps for each
material, which are open (non solid) surfaces. This may be the reason
you can not use the boolean subtract.

Alex

Jun 16, 2003, 2:20pm

Thanks for the links, Lady Murasaki! Just yesterday I converted an rwx
avatar and AccuTrans messed up the leg. Several parts of the leg's boot
were split into separate pieces instead of one object. When I went to use
the Object Union tool I got the same pop up window, as dlp anne, saying the
object wasn't solild. I'm now going to add this plug-in.

Thanks again. :)

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Jun 17, 2003, 8:08pm

I've been reading about the COB format today, and the matter is even
more complicated. Truespace has its own system for texture-mapping
(UV-ing) faces, which is unrelated to vertex specification (i.e., one
vertex there can have many different UVs). RWX needs one vertex per
UV coordinate (and per vertex colour if used), so conversion from COB
to RWX requires vertices to be added (in the same place of course, but
with different UV). This breaks the surface for Truespace.

Truespace, to consider an object solid, uses a formula "For an object
to be solid, the number of faces in an object minus two must equal the
number of vertices plus the number of edges. In addition, each edge
must be shared by exactly two faces" according to theur docs. This
is mostly not the case when converting RWX back to COB, as RWX
vertices will have been multiplied as soon as you have more than one
texture coordinate for that vertex, and therefore extra face edges
will appear, making boolean operations like substraction impossible in
Truespace.

Alex


[View Quote] >Another idea is to forbid accutrans to split the clumps per material.
>When accutrans splits per material, it creates sub-clumps for each
>material, which are open (non solid) surfaces. This may be the reason
>you can not use the boolean subtract.
>
>Alex

Jul 7, 2003, 11:32pm

There is some excellent information on the pros and cons of various
3D file formats here:

http://www.xfrogdownloads.com/greenwebNew/support/supportStart.htm

Down near the bottom, there is a good explanation on why the extra vertices
Alex mentions are created in the first place when saving in some formats.

Something that might help you if it exists is a commonly implemented
operation called "Weld identical vertices". If the software you are using
allows this, then it will recombine the extra vertices created as an
artifact
of saving in a format without multiple UV's per vertex and the object
should end up being 'solid' again.

If you save it out again in a format that doesn't support the multiple UV
coordiantes though, you're right back to where you started.

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