Another Wish (Wishlist)

Another Wish // Wishlist

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sk8man1

Dec 25, 2002, 3:21am
Would it be possible to add whispers and console messages to a log in
the world server... It would make a lot of things easier in some worlds
where we need to be able to see what's going on or proof for things that
went on. Only the world server log, not available for the public...

bowen

Dec 25, 2002, 3:22am
[View Quote] Mmm.. bots with certain privilages would be able to monitor those things I think.
Maybe not though.

--Bowen--

ananas

Dec 25, 2002, 9:05am
Log whispers is one of the most unwanted features.
If there should be some feature like this, it would be needed
to announce it, so everyone can see that this is a world that
violates his privacy.


[View Quote]

sk8man1

Dec 25, 2002, 10:42am
I guess, I kinda meant it more as a harassment thing... People are
getting harassed in whispers and we kinda don't have any proof that it has
or hasn't happened.

-Sk8man1 (346035)

[View Quote]

ananas

Dec 25, 2002, 1:12pm
There would be a better solution than the world logfile.

The browser chat log could be written into a database for example,
with an export tool to a format with timestamps and checksums.
Of course those can be faked too - but not as easy as plain text.

This would still be private as everyone could decide himself, whom
he gives access to his personal chat log.


Too many people have access to world chat logs. Some world owners
copy them into a HTTP accessable area so they are actually nearly
public. If the world log would contain the chat log, there would
at least need for some line by line protection, so that only either
the whispering or the whispered-to person can grant access.


[View Quote]

strike rapier

Dec 25, 2002, 5:02pm
Personally id never goto a world where my whispered were being loged, its a
complete invasion of privacy.

- Mark

[View Quote]

ryan jacob

Dec 25, 2002, 7:14pm
I agree...if we start with logging whispers, we could end up with logging
telegrams. I think AW is trying to move in the other direction with block
telegrams, status, etc.

Ryan Jacob

[View Quote]

maki

Dec 25, 2002, 7:22pm
AW probably can log telegrams already anyway - it's sent through their
uniserver is it not?

awmaki.com
[View Quote]

strike rapier

Dec 25, 2002, 8:14pm
Yes, but theyre bound by the data protection act so I dont believe they are
actually allowed to save / view private information, if they do they break
the data protection act because no disclaimer is made in the contract.

- Mark

[View Quote]

baron

Dec 25, 2002, 9:40pm
In article <3e0a2dd2 at server1.Activeworlds.com>, strike at rapiercom.freeserve.co.uk says...
> Yes, but theyre bound by the data protection act so I dont believe they are
> actually allowed to save / view private information, if they do they break
> the data protection act because no disclaimer is made in the contract.
>
> - Mark
>
[View Quote] I wonder...does anyone bother reading the EULA (fragment pasted below)...rhetoric question, I know noone does. What's the data protection act anyway and what does it have to do with AW? :) There is no privacy on the net except the privacy encryption gets you, if you want privacy converse with your friends deep in the forest and even that is not 100% safe :)

"Furthermore, use of the Software or AW Software does not guarantee any privacy or confidentiality of any Content you post or make available through the Software and AWCOM assumes no responsibility or liability for the preservation of such Content and may modify or remove it at AWCOM's sole discretion. You hereby release AWCOM from any and all liability for all claims related to Content as well as claims related to the security or level of privacy provided."

--
Baron

strike rapier

Dec 25, 2002, 10:31pm
Yes, but ive always been told by my ICT / Business teachers that the data
protection act cannot be overriden by any disclaimer from companies in the
WTO, EU etc, although they remove themselfs from risk of being sue'd if
information is accidently made available, they are still bound by law to
keep the information secure to the best of their ability, as stated by only
keeping / viewing private and confidential information if their is a lawfull
purpose to do so for operations and that the user(s) must be informed each
time privatly related information is being viewed / released. The DPA is
effective against all private one to one communication defined as private
messaging.

- Mark
[View Quote]

baron

Dec 25, 2002, 11:16pm
In article <3e0a4dcd at server1.Activeworlds.com>, strike at rapiercom.freeserve.co.uk says...
> Yes, but ive always been told by my ICT / Business teachers that the data
> protection act cannot be overriden by any disclaimer from companies in the
> WTO, EU etc, although they remove themselfs from risk of being sue'd if
> information is accidently made available, they are still bound by law to
> keep the information secure to the best of their ability, as stated by only
> keeping / viewing private and confidential information if their is a lawfull
> purpose to do so for operations and that the user(s) must be informed each
> time privatly related information is being viewed / released. The DPA is
> effective against all private one to one communication defined as private
> messaging.
>
> - Mark

Sorry to break it for you or your teachers but that's complete bull, terms like "accidentally", "best of their ability" are way too vague to be taken seriously. EULAs have never been challenged in a court AFAIK but to me they override anything, they are contracts between you and a company...anyway that's a local law issue; they are vague by definition and they cover all cases that's why many refer to them as COB.

The net offers zero privacy, period. I have worked long enough for an ISP to know :)

--
Baron

strike rapier

Dec 26, 2002, 12:34am
Ill tell em you said that when I get back to school in a few weeks >:P

I know in the UK the laws on the data are very very stict and measures have
been brought in to ensure that privacy is maintained.

- Mark

[View Quote]

sk8man1

Dec 26, 2002, 1:00am
Yes, but you can't quite sue someone out of your country if they have
different laws where they live and they are acting from. Of course you can
sue like hackers and virus creater people, but they are causing damage. If
you can catch them of course... Also, by agreeing to the EULA you signed a
contract and agreed to what was said in the post up there ^, AW obviously
has proof of the contract or you wouldn't be using AW would you. A lawsuit
wouldn't quite work out in your favor. Overall it doesn't matter if you sue
someone in the US from the UK as the US police force isn't going to care
enough about your issue to do anything about it. You'd have to get like UKs
special forces to come in and smuggle the owner of AW out of the country
ROFLMFAO

[View Quote]

strike rapier

Dec 26, 2002, 1:15am
Yes... I fail to see the problem with this course of action?

- Mark

"sk8man1" <Gzanone at optonline.net> wrote You'd have to get like UKs
> special forces to come in and smuggle the owner of AW out of the country

ryan jacob

Dec 26, 2002, 2:58am
Might make people in the US angry..lol

Ryan Jacob

[View Quote]

technozeus

Dec 26, 2002, 9:46am
Then how about a way that someone with eject privs could request permission to view your incomming and outgoing whispers? A person being harrassed could grant such permission, causing whisper messages to be echoed to the person who made the request, until one of the two turned that function off.

TechnoZeus

[View Quote]

technozeus

Dec 26, 2002, 9:55am
I don't recall specifically whether or not the AW end user agreement had such a provision, but in my experience most such agreements specify which areas laws will govern any disputed concerning the things covered in the agreement, so if you accept such a contract then you are technically agreeing to be bound by that particular set of laws regardless of where you live, unless the laws of your area specify somehow that such terms of a contract are not legally binding.

TechnoZeus

[View Quote]

baron

Dec 26, 2002, 10:36am
It would be helpful if the installer saved a copy of the EULA in the AW folder as eula.txt for future reference, I had to download a new copy of awb.exe to get it. Anyway, full text pasted below.


ACTIVE WORLDS BROWSER END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT

BY CLICKING ON THE "NEXT" BUTTON, YOU ARE CONSENTING TO BE BOUND BY AND ARE BECOMING A PARTY TO THIS AGREEMENT. IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO ALL OF THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT, CLICK THE "CANCEL" BUTTON AND THE INSTALLATION PROCESS WILL NOT CONTINUE. IF THESE TERMS ARE CONSIDERED AN OFFER, ACCEPTANCE IS EXPRESSLY LIMITED TO THESE TERMS.

GRANT. Subject to the terms of this Agreement, Activeworlds.com, Inc. ("AWCOM") hereby grants you a limited, personal, nontransferable, nonsublicensable, royalty-free, nonexclusive license to use one copy of the client software product you are about to install in object code form ("Software") for the purpose of accessing the Active Worlds server and using the Active Worlds software resident thereon ("AW Software").

You may: copy the Software for archival purposes, provided any copy must contain all of the original Software's proprietary notices; you may use the AW Software subject to the terms and conditions of this license.

You may not, directly or indirectly: modify, translate, reverse engineer, decompile, disassemble (except to the extent applicable laws specifically prohibit such restriction), create derivative works based on, or otherwise attempt to discover the source code or underlying ideas or algorithms of the Software or AW Software; or copy (except for archival purposes as set forth above), rent, lease, distribute, transfer or otherwise transfer rights to the Software or AW
Software; use the Software or AW Software for timesharing or service bureau purposes; or remove any proprietary notices or labels on the Software or AW Software.

SOFTWARE. This license does not grant you any right to any enhancement or update. Furthermore, this license does not grant you continued access to AW Software.

SUPPORT. This Agreement does not entitle you to any maintenance, upgrades, patches, enhancements, fixes, new versions or other support ("Support Programs") for the Software or AW Software; provided, however, that if you download or otherwise obtain in any manner any Support Programs they shall become part of the Software and the terms of this Agreement shall apply.

TITLE. As between the parties, title, ownership rights, and intellectual property rights in and to the Software and AW Software, and any copies or portions thereof, shall remain in AWCOM and its suppliers or licensors. The Software and AW Software are protected by the copyright laws of the United States and international copyright treaties. Title, ownership rights, and intellectual property rights in and to any software, data, information, text, pictures, images,
avatars, characters, sounds, personalities, or other content ("Content") accessed through the Software or otherwise with AW Software is the property of the applicable owner and may be protected by applicable copyright or other law. This License gives you no rights, title, or interest to Content (including without limitation Content that you post or create on the Active Worlds server) except the limited license to use the AW Software as described above.

DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTY. THE SOFTWARE, AW SOFTWARE, AND ANY SERVICES THAT YOU RECEIVE FROM AWCOM, ARE PROVIDED "AS IS." AWCOM HEREBY DISCLAIMS ALL EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, AND NON-INFRINGEMENT.

LIMITATION OF LIABILITY. You assume the entire risk as to the quality and performance of the Software or AW Software. AWCOM assumes no liability for the cost of any service or repair if the Software or AW Software is defective. Further, you assume the responsibility of, and any costs or liability associated with, making a connection (by any means) to the Active Worlds server, and you understand that the Software and AW Software will not operate without such a connection.

AWCOM exercises no screening, editorial, or other control over Content available to you through your use of the Software and AW Software, and Content may include material that could be deemed distasteful, misleading, inaccurate, offensive, pornographic or otherwise objectionable. Furthermore, use of the Software or AW Software does not guarantee any privacy or confidentiality of any Content you post or make available through the Software and AWCOM assumes no
responsibility or liability for the preservation of such Content and may modify or remove it at AWCOM's sole discretion. You hereby release AWCOM from any and all liability for all claims related to Content as well as claims related to the security or level of privacy provided.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES AND UNDER NO LEGAL THEORY, TORT, CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY, OR OTHERWISE, SHALL AWCOM OR ITS LICENSORS, SUPPLIERS OR RESELLERS BE LIABLE TO YOU OR ANY OTHER PERSON FOR ANY INDIRECT, SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, DAMAGES FOR LOST PROFITS, LOSS OF GOODWILL, WORK STOPPAGE, COMPUTER FAILURE OR MALFUNCTION, OR ANY AND ALL OTHER COMMERCIAL DAMAGES OR LOSSES. IN NO EVENT WILL AWCOM BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES
IN EXCESS OF AWCOM LIST PRICE FOR A LICENSE TO THE SOFTWARE, EVEN IF AWCOM SHALL HAVE BEEN INFORMED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES.

TERMINATION. AWCOM may, at its sole discretion, terminate this Agreement, the license granted herein, and your right to use or access the Software, AW Software, or the Active Worlds server at any time. On termination, you must destroy all copies of the Software.

ARBITRATION. Any claim alleging a violation of any duty incident to this Agreement, or your use of the Software or the AW Software, or arising out of any transaction occurring in Active Worlds, irrespective of the legal theory asserted, is subject to binding arbitration. This means that both sides give up all rights to a jury or court trial. The arbitration will take place, at your choice, either on-line before the Active Worlds Tribunal, or before a panel of
arbitrators at the American Arbitration Association offices in San Diego, California. In the latter instance, both sides shall pay half of the fees and expenses associated with the arbitration proceeding itself, but each side shall be responsible for all costs associated with traveling to the site of the arbitration, preparing for the arbitration, and hiring counsel, if desired. In both cases, both sides shall select an arbitrator from a randomly generated list of
available arbitrators, and those two arbitrators shall select a third.
No punitive or consequent damages (including without limitation statutory "multiplied," e.g. treble, damages) shall be awarded and the arbitrators shall be made aware of this limitation.

EXPORT CONTROLS. None of the Software, AW Software or underlying information or technology may be downloaded or otherwise exported or re-exported (i) into (or to a national or resident of) Cuba, Iraq, Libya, Yugoslavia, North Korea, Iran, Syria or any other country to which the U.S. has embargoed goods; or (ii) into any country in which the U.S. has embargoed goods, or to anyone on the U.S. Treasury Department's list of Specially Designated Nationals or the U.S. Commerce
Department's Table of Deny Orders. By downloading or using the Software, you are agreeing to the foregoing and you are representing and warranting that you are not located in, under the control of, or a national or resident of any such country or on any such list.

MISCELLANEOUS. This Agreement represents the complete license agreement and supersedes all prior agreements and representations and may only be amended by a writing executed by the parties. If any provision of this Agreement is held to be unenforceable for any reason, such provision shall be reformed only to the extent necessary to make it enforceable. This Agreement shall be governed by and construed under Massachusetts law.

U.S. GOVERNMENT RESTRICTED RIGHTS. Use, duplication or disclosure by the Government is subject to restrictions set forth in subparagraphs (a) through (d) of the Commercial Computer-Restricted Rights clause at FAR 52.227-19 when applicable, or in subparagraph (c)(1)(ii) of the Rights in Technical Data and Computer Software clause in DFARS 252.227-7013, and in similar clauses in the NASA FAR Supplement.

Created and produced by Activeworlds.com, Inc.



In article <3e0aee4c$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com>, TechnoZeus at techie.com says...
> I don't recall specifically whether or not the AW end user agreement had such a provision, but in my experience most such agreements specify which areas laws will govern any disputed concerning the things covered in the agreement, so if you accept such a contract then you are technically agreeing to be bound by that particular set of laws regardless of where you live, unless the laws of your area specify somehow that such terms of a contract are not legally binding.
>
> TechnoZeus
>

technozeus

Dec 26, 2002, 10:45am
Yep. "This Agreement shall be governed by and construed under Massachusetts law." Covers which laws govern the terms of the agreement. I notice that "arbitration" is, if used, to be held in California. They may want to update that since Massachusettes is pretty far from there. :)

TechnoZeus

[View Quote]

ryan jacob

Dec 26, 2002, 5:36pm
Wouldn't that break the privacy of someone who wants to whisper to someone
else? I don't think that's a good idea.

Ryan Jacob

[View Quote]

ryan jacob

Dec 26, 2002, 5:38pm
What is the arbitration part? I don't get it...

Ryan Jacob

[View Quote]

strike rapier

Dec 26, 2002, 8:04pm
Remember, they can simply block the person...

Never ever link private communications.

- Mark

[View Quote]

technozeus

Dec 27, 2002, 1:54am
If someone chooses to allow another person to a conversation they are having in whispers, yes they would be breaking the privacy of the other person in the conversation... but isn't that the same thing they would be doing if they copied the whispers and gave them to the same observer in telegrams, chat, or any other way? There would still be no way to view whisper conversations without the permission of someone involved in the conversation.

TechnoZeus

[View Quote]

technozeus

Dec 27, 2002, 1:55am
Abritration is a formal way of settling disputes out of court. Usually formal anyway. :)

TechnoZeus

[View Quote]

ryan jacob

Dec 27, 2002, 3:33am
That's a good point, but making the process of doing that automatic and
electronic worries me a bit.

Ryan Jacob

[View Quote]

technozeus

Dec 27, 2002, 4:34am
It wouldn't be automatic. Only simplified.

TechnoZeus

[View Quote]

sk8man1

Dec 27, 2002, 3:08pm
That's a good idea TZ. It wouldn't be disreguarding EVERYONE's privacy,
but that's what I was looking for kinda. Just a way to see if someone is
harassing someone else in whispers. Not a bad idea as you have to request /
be asked to view someone elses whispers, and if you can cut them off as soon
as you think it's appropriate. Would be nice if tourists could use the
feature also by right clicking. :)

[View Quote] *snip snip* everything below here was *snipped*

anarkissed

Dec 27, 2002, 6:17pm
Teach people to turn on their chat log or use their blocks
I use whisper so I can discuss things privately. I dont want even that
listened in on.


[View Quote]

sk8man1

Dec 27, 2002, 8:40pm
It doesn't invade your privacy though specifically the way TZ has it...
only if you harass a lot of people can I understand you not liking the
feature. I think it's a good idea to be able to see other people's whispers
if they are harassing someone or such and they ask you to watch what's
happening. It would help the people being harassed and help us get rid of
the people that do harass others... I dunno if it has anything to do with
it but I requested this feature for a public build world where these types
of things are common...

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