Shadows, Complete X,Y,Z movements for objects, and other mich (Wishlist)

Shadows, Complete X,Y,Z movements for objects, and other mich // Wishlist

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joe zip

Mar 4, 2001, 1:00am
For the next version of active worlds, there should be shadows, a control
that makes it so you cant pass threw an object with shift, even though shift
is on, the ability to make objects not only go back and forth, side to side,
rotate, but to rotate in the z-axis as well, for example, a pp01.rwx at the
same angle as a roof01.rwx, umm, the ability to load objects that aren't in
a OP, that's it.

joeman

Mar 4, 2001, 1:48am
you can do most of this, but shadows are crazy! To do shadows with
activeworlds would bring down the FPS a bunch. And, you can allready go
through an object with shift on, and its called create solid off. Also,
stuff can rotate on the z access, create rotate 0 0 1. Stuff can go side to
side and back to fourth, create move 40 0 0, create move 0 0 40. I agree
with you that you should be able to load objects from other paths :)....


~Joeman

[View Quote]

eep

Mar 4, 2001, 7:43am
[View Quote] > you can do most of this, but shadows are crazy! To do shadows with
> activeworlds would bring down the FPS a bunch.

Take a trip to Hole and Cubed and perhaps you'll think differently. Shadows, if done right and with optimized objects, don't even cause a DENT in frame rate.

> And, you can allready go
> through an object with shift on, and its called create solid off.

Perhaps he simply doesn't realize the current ability to disable shift in worlds. Ideally, collision detection bypassing should be a separate key and not integrated with straffing and disabling gravity.

> Also, stuff can rotate on the z access, create rotate 0 0 1. Stuff can go side to
> side and back to fourth, create move 40 0 0, create move 0 0 40.

No, that requires ACTION commands, which are limited in what they can do anyway. Objects need to have BUILT-IN full-axis rotation. Roland claims a cell database rewrite would allow this yet somehow Shamus added in rotate action commands (which are stored in the cell database) that do EXACTLY what AW's object manipulation commands NEED to do. Roland doesn't know what he's talking about, as usual...I sure would like to see his response about it but seeing as how he only reads the beta newsgroup (and not lately, it seems), he doesn't have a CLUE about what's going on.

At any rate, this newsgroup is pointless since AWCI doesn't read it (or give a shit about it) anyway. If you want them to start paying attention and actually IMPLEMENT the things you want, you have to start bugging the programmers (Roland, HamFon, and Shamus) and other AWCIers. If enough people bug them they'll eventually HAVE to do the things we want or face yet another outlash against their incompetence and stupidity.

[View Quote]

joeman

Mar 4, 2001, 2:57pm
I think he was talking about shadows created automatically, not an object
for the shadow :). Your worlds are the most realistic i have seen, and the
shadows are great. But, saddly most of us dont have the time to map out
shadows... And uh, sorry about the Z access stuff, it was late and i was
tired :)...


~Joeman

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rolu

Mar 4, 2001, 3:04pm
[View Quote] He was talking about a situation where shift is allowed in the world, yet
you want an object where you can't pass through even when you use shift.
Create solid off would do kinda the opposite of that.

rolu

rolu

Mar 4, 2001, 3:04pm
[View Quote] I think both of them are right. Currently, only one rotation is stored in
the cell database. To be able to rotate an object along every axis, you'd
need to store two rotations, which would require the addition of a field,
and thus a rewrite.

The rotate action command doesn't need this rewrite, because it stores all
needed rotations in the action field in the database. However, using this
command to make objects rotate when it could have been done by rewriting the
cell database and adding a second rotation field is just an ugly patch.

rolu

joe zip

Mar 4, 2001, 3:17pm
Yes, about time someone understood, and for shadow I mean as in, you have a
light source and something is in the way, and it will cause a shadow. And
for the rotation, I mean as in not a constant rotate like create rotate, but
as when you are building and you make an object turn to make a corner.
[View Quote]

young phalpha

Mar 4, 2001, 6:13pm
Shadows are a bit hard I believe, if it was implanted, it wouldn't be like
the 3D Max Shadows, it'd be vertex-based. And to make everything not look
like hell, it should be a command in the object file, like "shadow x y",
where x=darkness, 0 being none (pointless to do), or 1, totally black, or
perhaps y could be color, so like shadow .5 FF0000, and a command for the
action line, like create shadow .5 FF0000 :) or make its color the backdrop
color. This could be done but theres something called FPS, which would kill
it :( About full XYZ rotation and not just Y rotation, I agree we should
have it to be static not through the rotate command :) But it would require
a re-write and Beta browsers would need to be able to read the old way and
beta worlds could not take visitors from non-beta browsers, but we can
easily fix that by having our own Beta Uniserver and then when its ready for
release upgrade everything and do a forced-upgrade for the worlds, browsers,
ect. :) So it could be more complex than just programming it in there. Then
there would be slower property loading, which may also require a rewrite for
the object database method to make it more compressed, which was also
require a seperate universe to test in. I don't think the worlds have a
forced upgrade thing but they possibly do, so they would need to upgrade the
world for that to make sure everyone will upgrade to it and check when no
one or few people are using the old world server and the ones who havn't
upgraded will be sent a email that their world will be disconnected if they
don't upgrade or something like that. So its very complex to do what you
want to do :)

[View Quote]

eep

Mar 4, 2001, 9:26pm
Not even 3D games have automatically created shadows--they have to be created manually. However, most 3D games with intricate shadows (Half-Life, Trespasser, Vampire: The Masquerade - Redemption, etc, etc) MOVE the shadows automatically relative to light sources (and some up vertical angles, etc). Until AW gets a way for polygons to move relative to light sources (and FULL and other single-axis axis-alignment), don't expect this anytime soon.

Roland can't even fix AW's current bugs before introducing more, so he sure as hell ain't smart enough to implement something most 3D games already have...

[View Quote] > I think he was talking about shadows created automatically, not an object
> for the shadow :). Your worlds are the most realistic i have seen, and the
> shadows are great. But, saddly most of us dont have the time to map out
> shadows... And uh, sorry about the Z access stuff, it was late and i was
> tired :)...
>
[View Quote]

nova n@n.com

Mar 5, 2001, 11:02am
I think what joe zip ment by
"but to rotate in the z-axis as well, for example, a pp01.rwx at the
same angle as a roof01.rwx,"
Is simply this soemthing like create set rotation 0 0 45 and more or less
permently set by comand line the rotation of pp01.rwx. kind of a cool idea
when you think bout it would make it like haveing a literly unlimited number
of objects to use in aw.
[View Quote]

eep

Mar 5, 2001, 8:08pm
You must not have read my AW improvements page (http://tnlc.com/eep/aw/improve.html) or you (and joeman) would have seen z-axis object rotation has been on it for YEARS.

[View Quote] > I think what joe zip ment by
> "but to rotate in the z-axis as well, for example, a pp01.rwx at the
> same angle as a roof01.rwx,"
> Is simply this soemthing like create set rotation 0 0 45 and more or less
> permently set by comand line the rotation of pp01.rwx. kind of a cool idea
> when you think bout it would make it like haveing a literly unlimited number
> of objects to use in aw.

[View Quote]

ingiebee

Mar 13, 2001, 4:53am
yes, and the object path could be so much smaller, in fact it would save
download time!

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