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Nov 26, 2000, 7:23am

Roland;

When we went from 2.2 to 3.0 there was a change in the way AW works that
makes me gnash my teeth in frustration every time I'm using it. My
dentist request that you make these changes ASAP...

Problem:
Moving with the mouse has always been somewhat clumsy, so I've learned
early on to use the keyboard for avatar movements. The keys need for
movement are for the most part different than those used for chatting
and in 2.2 it was possible to walk and talk at the same time. Not so in
3.0. Now, if I've been chatting, I must let go of the keyboard, grab the
mouse and click on the view window *before* I can move using the
keyboard. I *have* to stand still to chat and I cannot chat when moving
(or even during a *brief* pause in movement). There is also the old 2.2
problem of loosing focus during whispering and moving which I'll also
address with the same suggestion.

Suggestion:
Avatar movement keys are the four arrow keys, +, -, PageUp, and PageDown
(so we can move and look at the same time) along with the modifier keys
Shift and Ctrl. Now with the exception of + and -, *none* of movement
keys are needed in chat. There is no technical reason in the world why I
should not be able to type with my left hand while interspersing arrow
key movements with my right. Or to put it another way, the arrow keys
are focused on movement and the alpha-numeric keys are focused on the
chat window.

Quite simply, *always* direct the alpha-numeric keys and punctuation
keys to either the chat entry box or the whisper entry box (unless you
are building and have just clicked in the name box or some such place).
*Always* direct arrow keys, PageUp and PageDown keys to avatar movement
(again, unless you are building, when the movement keys shift focus from
the avatar to the object). As for the + and - keys, make both sets work
the same. If you are not actively typing in a message, they work for
movement (flying). If you are typing they go to the appropriate text
entry box. You will not be able to *start* a sentence with + or - unless
you first click the mouse in the desired text entry box. To restate
this: If the chat/whisper entry box is empty, + and - have movement
focus; if the chat/whisper entry box has text in it, + and - have
chat/whisper focus; when you hit return focus shifts back to movement.
Finally, when you've been whispering to someone, focus should *only*
change back to the general chat when you specifically click your mouse
on the chat entry box *or* the person you've been whispering to leaves.
The purpose of making both sets of + and - keys work the same is because
not all keyboards have a numeric keypad (laptop frustrations). Then
there are the (few) newbies who require three people spend nearly 10
minutes trying to explain how to fly before they finally realize that
there is a second set of + and - keys on the keyboard.

So manage the focus between the keyboard and general chat, whispering,
avatar movement, and building. 2.2 was not perfect, but it was *much*
better than 3.0 has become. I feel 3.0 can better 2.2 in this regard
with a little effort. Perhaps you could come up with some sort of matrix
showing area of focus in a column, and the key or keys on a row with the
intersection showing the rules for changing focus. If you'd like I could
create such a matrix as a start.

Thanks.

ScottyDM
--
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always #5 FOO = ~FOO; // the sound of a beating heart

Jan 1, 2001, 4:01am

Not true at ALL.
I use 3.0 and you dont have to click on the box that you use to chat with,
the only thing I use my mouse for is to check my teles, contacts ect. and to
build (right click). I use my key board for everything else. Lets see your
problem, when you are wlaking even with a mouse you still have to pause to
type. Or you can use one hand for the key movement and one for typing. Now I
like to use both for typingand I still move :)(alot).
well hope this helps (probley didnt)
~Johnathon a.k.a. CrAzY gLuE IL


[View Quote]

Jan 9, 2001, 5:12am

Crazy;

I do not use the mouse for movement. I use the arrow keys (either the
four keys between the numeric keypad and the main keypad, or the numeric
keypad with Num Lock turned off). I've found that in 3.0, right after I
type something, then hit return, I cannot move at all with either set of
arrow keys. If I try to use either + or - key to fly, it just types out
in the text entry box.

I've done a little experiment, it seems Roland has made the arrow keys
so that they move the cursor in the text entry box. Oh joy. trading a 2%
benefit for a 98% frustration. I did not notice this before because I'd
try to move *after* I hit return and my text entry box would then be
empty (so the cursor had no text to move across).

You know, if it was not so damn painful to use the mouse to move, this
would not be an issue. The mouse as movement control sucks majorly. That
needs to be completely reworked, but I thought the keyboard focus would
be easier to fix. I have this old drawing app that was originally
released for Windows and Unix, so the programmers did not follow the
Windows Way very closely, thus the pan and zoom are the easiest to use
of *any* app I've *ever* tried. To pan (move) you hold the right mouse
button and move the mouse slightly then stop (while still holding the
button). Shazam! It's like an accelerator, the a small displacement of
the mouse (from where you first clicked the right button) causes a small
velocity in the direction of the mouse displacement, a large
displacement causes a large velocity. You can slide all over your
drawing surface very fast with complete control. Release the mouse
button and motion instantly stops. To zoom click and hold the middle
mouse button (it requires a three button mouse) and if you sweep the
mouse from upper-left to lower-right you zoom in to fit the box you just
drew so that it is full screen size. To zoom out you sweep the mouse
from lower-right to upper-left, the box you drew compared with the full
screen size is your ratio for zooming out. Well, we don't zoom in AW,
but you get the idea. A really great user interface that is fast and
easy to use and control.

Something like this could be done in the AW browser for movement. Click
and hold the right mouse button then move the mouse in the direction you
want to go, the distance you move the mouse is the speed of movement. To
select an object simply click and release the right mouse button without
moving the mouse. The program could have a threshold radius of mouse
movement before it decides the user wants to move their avatar. The
object could be selected on button release if the threshold radius was
not exceeded. Something like this has been done in some VRML browsers,
but poorly. To move faster than a snail you'd need a mouse pad about
half a meter across because you need to move and hold the mouse really
far to get any speed. This is silly, motion should start at 2 or 3 mm
and should be an eye watering blur with a mouse displacement of about 5
cm or so.

ScottyDM

[View Quote]

Jan 9, 2001, 4:10pm

[View Quote] > I do not use the mouse for movement. I use the arrow keys (either the
> four keys between the numeric keypad and the main keypad, or the numeric
> keypad with Num Lock turned off). I've found that in 3.0, right after I
> type something, then hit return, I cannot move at all with either set of
> arrow keys. If I try to use either + or - key to fly, it just types out
> in the text entry box.

I only have this problem when I click into the whisper chat field.

> I've done a little experiment, it seems Roland has made the arrow keys
> so that they move the cursor in the text entry box. Oh joy. trading a 2%
> benefit for a 98% frustration. I did not notice this before because I'd
> try to move *after* I hit return and my text entry box would then be
> empty (so the cursor had no text to move across).
>
> You know, if it was not so damn painful to use the mouse to move, this
> would not be an issue. The mouse as movement control sucks majorly.

Uh, you must not play very many (if any) 3D games (particularly FPSes) then because mouselook and keyboard movement are the de facto standard.

> That needs to be completely reworked, but I thought the keyboard focus would
> be easier to fix. I have this old drawing app that was originally
> released for Windows and Unix, so the programmers did not follow the
> Windows Way very closely, thus the pan and zoom are the easiest to use
> of *any* app I've *ever* tried. To pan (move) you hold the right mouse
> button and move the mouse slightly then stop (while still holding the
> button). Shazam! It's like an accelerator, the a small displacement of
> the mouse (from where you first clicked the right button) causes a small
> velocity in the direction of the mouse displacement, a large
> displacement causes a large velocity. You can slide all over your
> drawing surface very fast with complete control. Release the mouse
> button and motion instantly stops. To zoom click and hold the middle
> mouse button (it requires a three button mouse) and if you sweep the
> mouse from upper-left to lower-right you zoom in to fit the box you just
> drew so that it is full screen size. To zoom out you sweep the mouse
> from lower-right to upper-left, the box you drew compared with the full
> screen size is your ratio for zooming out. Well, we don't zoom in AW,
> but you get the idea. A really great user interface that is fast and
> easy to use and control.
>
> Something like this could be done in the AW browser for movement. Click
> and hold the right mouse button then move the mouse in the direction you
> want to go, the distance you move the mouse is the speed of movement. To
> select an object simply click and release the right mouse button without
> moving the mouse. The program could have a threshold radius of mouse
> movement before it decides the user wants to move their avatar. The
> object could be selected on button release if the threshold radius was
> not exceeded. Something like this has been done in some VRML browsers,
> but poorly. To move faster than a snail you'd need a mouse pad about
> half a meter across because you need to move and hold the mouse really
> far to get any speed. This is silly, motion should start at 2 or 3 mm
> and should be an eye watering blur with a mouse displacement of about 5
> cm or so.

This kind of mouse movement is just horrible. Go try a Superscape and/or an app like LEGO Creator (which uses Superscape) and see for yourself.

[View Quote]

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