frame rate-based proportional turning (Wishlist)

frame rate-based proportional turning // Wishlist

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=?iso-8859-1?q?eep=b2?=

Mar 8, 1999, 10:43pm
Turning when frame rate is high is too fast. AW needs to proportionately speed the turning so as to not cause overturning. Right now AW turns at a constant speed. I think it would be better if turning was proportionally sped up or slowed down relative to the frame rate. As the frame rate increases, turning becomes slower; as the frame rate drops, turning becomes faster to compensate. Dig? I think I've overexplained this enough as it is, wouldn't you say?

dthknight

Mar 8, 1999, 10:55pm
I think the turning speed is fine, although either a toggle switch for
something like you described, Eep, or a slider to set the speed (independent
of fps or possibly in sync with the toggle switch) would be a good feature
for some to have.

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=?iso-8859-1?q?eep=b2?=

Mar 8, 1999, 11:02pm
Too complicated. Take mouse turning for example. Turning is based off how fast you can move the mouse. A similar thing would be nice for keyboard turning. However, since you can't exactly press down the keys any harder (they're either down or up and don't act like a piano or electronic music keyboard where the keys can be much more sensitive), I feel the frame rate-based proportional turning is a good solution.

dthknight

Mar 8, 1999, 11:06pm
at least have it on a toggle switch then... and I still say a slider either
in addition to or seperate from the toggle switch for setting the speed
would be a nice feature. We have speed / acceleration settings for mice, so
why not for turning in AW?

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=?iso-8859-1?q?eep=b2?=

Mar 9, 1999, 1:05am
[View Quote] > at least have it on a toggle switch then... and I still say a slider either in addition to or seperate from the toggle switch for setting the speed would be a nice feature. We have speed / acceleration settings for mice, so why not for turning in AW?

Because the speed would be PROPORTIONALLY constant to the frame rate, dig? The turn rate would not change absolutely; only relatively. Perhaps I should elaborate more on what I mean by proportional turning. Right now AW turns at a constant speed in 1st person perspective from the moment the arrow key is pressed until let go. 3rd person perspective turning seems smoother, but only because the camera lags behind turning.

What I'm proposing is turning that smoothly/gradually, but quickly, builds up to the maximum turning speed. This will hopefully eliminate overturning and make AW turning seem less jerky/twitchy. Dig?

Now the frame rate-based proportional turning part just means that the time it takes to get up to full turning speed will be SLIGHTLY (not much, but enough to still make turning seem smooth and gradual, yet quick) longer as the frame rate increases. Note that the time is SLIGHTLY different, because when the frame rate is shit, you know how long AW takes to turn. Well, when the frame rate is low, AW should turn FASTER than when the frame rate is high, OK?

So if all of this is built-in, intelligently and intuitively, no user-controlled toggle switches and sliders are necessary.

grover

Mar 9, 1999, 1:09am
Have you ever tried to turn in a world while getting 50+ fps,
dth? it's impossible! a single click of the arrow key might send
you in a 720° turn. Navigation is impossible until the graphics
fully load, and frame rates drop to somewhere around 10-15 fps.
I have a feeling this will be fixed soon after Roland gets his
new P-III though, hehe

grover

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baggis

Mar 9, 1999, 3:00am
Hehe, Eep² ;-)

I really appreciate your overexplanition, makes it easy for someone like me
to understand !

/Baggis

[View Quote]

dthknight

Mar 9, 1999, 8:40pm
I get 20fps in some spots near my AW 'home' (using D3D drivers on a TNT will
explain that), and while it is a tad fast, guess I'm either just used to it
or can live with it better than you and Eep can :)

[View Quote]

rjinswand

Mar 9, 1999, 10:47pm
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I totally agree with them, we need proportional turning. There's a =
problem when your frame rate is too low as well... I first felt we =
needed proportional turning back when I first logged on 3 years ago with =
a 486-66. Now the problem is at the other end of the spectrum. 720 is =
great for blading, but sucks when you're just trying to wander around. =
:)

Rjinswand

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=?iso-8859-1?q?eep=b2?=

Mar 10, 1999, 5:26am
One workaround I've found is to use the mouse for turning while using the arrows for forward/reverse.

I'd also like looking up and down to be more smooth and not in steps like it is now. AW is way too jerky...in everything it does. "Sometimes you just have to let it flow." Keep the flow. Flow is good. Go with the flow..._.´¯`·._.´¯`·._.´¯`·._.´¯`·.

[View Quote] > I totally agree with them, we need proportional turning. There's a problem when your frame rate is too low as well... I first felt we needed proportional turning back when I first logged on 3 years ago with a 486-66. Now the problem is at the other end of the spectrum. 720 is great for blading, but sucks when you're just trying to wander around. :)

andras sarkozy

Mar 10, 1999, 5:36am
[View Quote] > One workaround I've found is to use the mouse for turning while using the arrows for forward/reverse.
>

I'm using the same method.

>
> I'd also like looking up and down to be more smooth and not in steps like it is now. AW is way too jerky...in everything it does. "Sometimes you just have to let it flow." Keep the flow. Flow is good. Go with the flow..._.´¯`·._.´¯`·._.´¯`·._.´¯`·.
>

I agree.
Andras
P.S.: Nice wave !

=?iso-8859-1?q?eep=b2?=

Mar 10, 1999, 6:37am
Thanks, although I like this one better:

·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.

It's smoother.

[View Quote] [View Quote]

andras sarkozy

Mar 10, 1999, 7:46pm
[View Quote] > Thanks, although I like this one better:
>
> ·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.·´¯`·._.
>
> It's smoother.
>

Relatively perfect :)

rjinswand

Mar 10, 1999, 10:13pm
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Yep agreed. Roland and I were discussing at AV98 this very topic... =
in conjunction with reworking the avatar actions scheme. What would you =
think of having the camera follow the avatar's head as you turn or nod? =
I think it could get nauseating at times unless you had configurable =
limitations (like whether to roll or pitch or just yaw, and side to side =
extremes).
Any similar or opposing ideas?

Rjinswand

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=?iso-8859-1?q?eep=b2?=

Mar 10, 1999, 10:42pm
I'd rather have control over what my avatar does and not have idle SEQs do it automatically. Eventually it could even be to the point where VR suits (with joint sensors) are worn and anything you do, your avatar does. Walking/running/flying (obviously) might still have to be done using unconventional device (i.e. keyboard, mouse, "movement device", etc), but sophisication might exist to the point of using treadmills or those suspension devices (don't recall the actual name) used in astronaut training that have full 320°³(?) movement capability.

But I definitely think from 3rd person perspective (and from other avatars' 1st and 3rd perspectives), the avatar's head should at least move in-sync with looking up and down (page up/down keys). And instead of turning the entire body when looking left/right (left/right arrow keys), the head (if using a human avatar) should only turn (to a certain extent), at which time other parts of the body (shoulders, torso, etc) would move to allow for more rotation. I think parts of existing SEQs could even be used for this, too. Non-human avatars would probably turn differently.

The more realistic AW gets, the more immersive it will be, and the more popular it will get. Just always keep the idea of the Star Trek: The Next Generation+ holodeck in mind...

[View Quote] > Yep agreed. Roland and I were discussing at AV98 this very topic... in conjunction with reworking the avatar actions scheme. What would you think of having the camera follow the avatar's head as you turn or nod? I think it could get nauseating at times unless you had configurable limitations (like whether to roll or pitch or just yaw, and side to side extremes).
> Any similar or opposing ideas?

veto

Mar 11, 1999, 12:43pm
I agree with not having the idle seqs move your view...I think it would get
annoying after about five minutes. The thing I always wanted was a third
person view directly behind the av looking straight out towards the horizon.
Why have four 3rd person views that all look down on you?

[View Quote]

veto

Mar 11, 1999, 1:14pm
You can use pageup pagedown in 3rd person? I can't. Or did you mean 1st
person? heheh or do you just wish we could :)

Veto

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=?iso-8859-1?q?eep=b2?=

Mar 11, 1999, 7:34pm
Good point. What I meant was if a person looks up and down, their avatar's head should move as well, and this should be visible from other avatar's 1st and 3rd-person perspectives.

But in 3rd-person perspective, the camera should be user-controllable (ala Tomb Raider) instead of at fixed positions like it is now.

[View Quote] > You can use pageup pagedown in 3rd person? I can't. Or did you mean 1st person? heheh or do you just wish we could :)
>
[View Quote]

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