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Dec 15, 1998, 9:23pm

Has someone compiled a wishlist FAQ?
It would be useful to look at ideas as they come up in the NG, and also COF
development responses where available (ie included in next build, not
possible at this time, in development etc, also COF comments on the
desirability of each "wish")

Here is a few of mine:

1. Better 3d hardware support (I really need to get the visibility and
framerate up)
2. A better building interface (perhaps a seperate program or module that
has each object type as a series of menus and sub-menues to select objects)
3. Individual avatars that can be carried throughout the universe (is so
I can be ME)
4. Voice over IP (admittedly hard especially in a group situation, but
maybe 1-to-1?)
5. File transfer to people in AW
6. Real Vudio and Real Video inside AW

Dec 15, 1998, 9:36pm

Are you new here? :)

--

[ Fluxen Dean-Christian Strik ]
[ ICQ: 11760568 ISG RhinoSoft ]
[ fluxen at bigfoot.com dean2 at bigfoot.com ]

The nice thing of standards is that there are so many to choose from.
-- Andrew S. Tanenbaum

[View Quote]

Dec 15, 1998, 10:11pm

hehe 8-) Lets bring this newbie to school 8-)

cheese

--
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Check out my homepage, it is chocked full of awesome graphics!
http://thecheese.home.ml.org
Maybe check out my town in AW!
AW- 10000N 500W
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
[View Quote]

Dec 15, 1998, 10:41pm

>1. Better 3d hardware support (I really need to get the visibility and
>framerate up)

Yep...
Maybe it would be expensive but it would work.
I mean: if you can play quake with 20 people at 50 fps why does AW run on
2fps with a Viper V330 !?!?!

>2. A better building interface (perhaps a seperate program or module that
>has each object type as a series of menus and sub-menues to select objects)

And maybe off-line building followed by easy uploading to a spot specified
by you as soon as you get onlin.

>3. Individual avatars that can be carried throughout the universe (is so
>I can be ME)

And maybe a board to accept/reject these homemade avatars!

>4. Voice over IP (admittedly hard especially in a group situation, but
>maybe 1-to-1?)

Rather 1 to 1 I think. I mean: if I remember correctly you want to speed
thing *up* ;-)

>5. File transfer to people in AW

Shouldn't be too hard as far as I know anything at all about it ;-)

>6. Real Vudio and Real Video inside AW

Forget it!
Not everyone has his private T1-connection...
Too bad actually; cuz the idea of real audio and video is in fact quite
cool...

Dec 15, 1998, 10:43pm

Sorry but I think his idea's ain't that weird.
I suggest we all start promoting these things.
Even if it won't work, it will at least result in *some* positive changes by
COF ;-)

[View Quote]

Dec 16, 1998, 4:18am

This might actually be a good idea, although it would require a lot of work.
Anyway it would be good because it would be a more discernable list of
demands set by the AW community....and there could even be a top ten list of
the most sought after new features. Roland only adds one he thinks are most
wanted, which may or may not be actually the most popular. A clearer way of
showing what is really the most popular could bring about the implementation
of our fav features all the sooner. And also we would then have our own
copy of "the list" for us to gripe about :)

Ok so its a bit different then what that guy originally posted about...but
its a kewl anyway.

lattas!

-raiven-

Dec 16, 1998, 4:55am

How about getting someone who knows cgi or java to make a vote/list page of the
top 100 sought after features?

Every person has a different idea of how each feature should be implemented, so
it would probably take a team of people to figure out just what feature a
request should belong with or if that request should be in a unique feature by
itself.

Every person has the option of adding as many requests that he or she wishes,
but only the requests that he or she makes that are common requests with others
may make it to the top 100 list.

OR, there could be a webpage of requests like ICQ has done
http://databases.icq99.com:8080/wishlist/viewwishes.db
But, of course, it would be better to have it sorted out to be presented to
Roland so it will be easier for him to see which ones are most wanted so they
will have a better chance of making it to the top of his List™. As you can
see from the ICQ wishlist database, there are hundreds of wishes and none of
them are exactly the same.


[View Quote] > This might actually be a good idea, although it would require a lot of work.
> Anyway it would be good because it would be a more discernable list of
> demands set by the AW community....and there could even be a top ten list of
> the most sought after new features. Roland only adds one he thinks are most
> wanted, which may or may not be actually the most popular. A clearer way of
> showing what is really the most popular could bring about the implementation
> of our fav features all the sooner. And also we would then have our own
> copy of "the list" for us to gripe about :)
>
> Ok so its a bit different then what that guy originally posted about...but
> its a kewl anyway.
>
> lattas!
>
> -raiven-

Dec 16, 1998, 8:26am

[View Quote] 'cuz it doesn't use the D3D part of the viper...

>
that
objects)

I'm working on something like that.

>
>And maybe off-line building followed by easy uploading to a spot specified
>by you as soon as you get onlin.
>

Roland is working on that, it should be implemented in the next release of
the AWbrowser.

>
>And maybe a board to accept/reject these homemade avatars!
>
>
>Rather 1 to 1 I think. I mean: if I remember correctly you want to speed
>thing *up* ;-)
>
>
>Shouldn't be too hard as far as I know anything at all about it ;-)
>
>
>Forget it!
>Not everyone has his private T1-connection...
>Too bad actually; cuz the idea of real audio and video is in fact quite
>cool...

Absolutely don't forget it. You don't need a T1 connection for that. And
even if you did, compare the average modem-speed from 5 years ago with the
average speed now... and think about the average speed of modems over 5
years...

>
>
>

Dec 16, 1998, 8:34am

Um, I will want to make such a list. I'm not into cgi or java at the moment,
but I can do this manually. When I make a list, everyone can send his votes
and new submissions to the list to my E-mail adress, and I will add them. I
will post the list in this NG regulary, and mabye send it to Roland himself.
In the list I'll give the idea itself, with a short description or so, and
the number of votes. What about that?

[View Quote]

Dec 16, 1998, 12:24pm

and this would allow development ideas to be thought-through in some detail
by a lot of users, rather than individual pin-heads DEMANDING their idea be
developed RIGHT NOW.

discussion on specific proposals could be done here in the NG, and once
sufficient support around a concensus form of the development, then it gets
put up on a vote-list. Kind of pre-filtering to prevent prolific posters
spamming the voting list to push their cause.

Sheesh, you guys need to lobby more effectively...whinging does not get
results, but constructive community grass-roots activities do...just like in
RL.

BTW, yes I have come back to AW after about 10 months away, and no I haven't
been in the NG much at all, but I have been using AW since the bad old days
of Worlds inc, and browsers that didn't dynamically download. From my
perspective, the project has really come forward since then, but obviously
not at the pace some would like.

Oh ,yeah Fluxen and TheCheese...don't fucking patronise me.

Dec 16, 1998, 12:38pm

[View Quote]
Exactly, is the 3D engine in need of a major re-think? AW 1st came out
around the same time as Doom. look at the improvement in 3D games since
Doom, and maybe we COF could apply that to AW. Sure, it may mean more
client side caching, but the quality and framerate is possible in these
engines so why not AW?



that
objects)
>
>And maybe off-line building followed by easy uploading to a spot specified
>by you as soon as you get onlin.

Yeah, but you have the problem of multiple off-line users building in the
same space which will clash on upload....1st come 1st servered?



>
>And maybe a board to accept/reject these homemade avatars!


Y? If I cane be me in RL, why not in AW? sure u may get some nudes with
raging hard-ons walking around, but you get that on www anyway. (or porn
spam at least). Just like in snowcrash, casual users will probably stick
to standard AVs, those with more time to model, or $ to buy, will have
custom avatars. Probably have to be universe based, but y not dynamically
download that person's av when u 1st meet them?


>
>Rather 1 to 1 I think. I mean: if I remember correctly you want to speed
>thing *up* ;-)


yeah, but the day is coming when we will all be on cable modems (ROFL). But
seriosly, most telcos are looking at voice over IP, with associated
compression stuff anyway. could be something for AW in the future....dont
look to the present limitations look to the future concept...I would
actually like talking to your avatar, and hear your voice in return
(actually mono 8bit sounds shouldnt be that bandwidth intensive should it?)
remove half the typing.

>
>
>Shouldn't be too hard as far as I know anything at all about it ;-)


AW Client virus protection, or link to standard virus checkers? I like the
Snowcrash file offer (a credit card object?) that once accepted does the t/f
in the background.

>
>Forget it!
>Not everyone has his private T1-connection...
>Too bad actually; cuz the idea of real audio and video is in fact quite
>cool...

I thought that was the point of Real video and real audio..streaming means
that you can receive and play the file without waiting for the whole thing
to d/l. at the moment we get our sounds in AW after d/l.
An imagine placing an object that refers to a .ram file such as a TV screen.
The world server would only need to start broadcasting the .ram when a user
was in proximity to the object.

Dec 16, 1998, 4:13pm

Now cubic's question *was* a rhetorical question.... :)

--

[ Fluxen Dean-Christian Strik ]
[ ICQ: 11760568 ISG RhinoSoft ]
[ fluxen at bigfoot.com dean2 at bigfoot.com ]

The nice thing of standards is that there are so many to choose from.
-- Andrew S. Tanenbaum

[View Quote]

Dec 16, 1998, 6:08pm

You're fairly new yourself, Cubic. Try reading some of the early messages of these newsgroups. Too bad the old discussion messages aren't around...THEN you'd understand...that was before COF finally learned how to DELETE messages.

[View Quote] > Sorry but I think his idea's ain't that weird.
> I suggest we all start promoting these things.
> Even if it won't work, it will at least result in *some* positive changes by
> COF ;-)

Dec 16, 1998, 6:10pm

Roland couldn't give a shit what the community wants. It's obvious COF has its own agenda. Roland has a list of improvements/features/bugs (I've seen 2 versions of it) but maybe 5% of the things ever get done.

Sure, it might be INTERESTING to see what "the community" wants, assuming it's a legitiment voting system, but I seriously doubt COF will give a shit...

[View Quote] > This might actually be a good idea, although it would require a lot of work.
> Anyway it would be good because it would be a more discernable list of
> demands set by the AW community....and there could even be a top ten list of
> the most sought after new features. Roland only adds one he thinks are most
> wanted, which may or may not be actually the most popular. A clearer way of
> showing what is really the most popular could bring about the implementation
> of our fav features all the sooner. And also we would then have our own
> copy of "the list" for us to gripe about :)
>
> Ok so its a bit different then what that guy originally posted about...but
> its a kewl anyway.

Dec 16, 1998, 6:11pm

[View Quote] [View Quote] Even RenderWare's Direct3D driver is shit-slow...

Dec 16, 1998, 6:19pm

Woo, your newness (renewness? awayness?) is DEFINITELY showing. For as lo=
ng as I've been in these newsgroups (since around summer '97), there's be=
enn MUCH discussion of ideas, features, options, etc. COF RARELY got in o=
n the discussions and hardly any of them ever got implemented (that weren=
't already supposedly thought up by COF, et al). For example, my first su=
ggestion was to add group selecting/copying/moving/deleting/editing. It O=
NLY took COF 1.5 years to implement. Of course other people said my sugge=
stion wasn't new and Roland himself even said he thought of it (or someth=
ing). Eh...whatever. Point is: COF is slow...DAMN slow. They wouldn't be =
able to make it as a REAL company because their development cycle is shit=
=2E Look at AW...yes it might be the best online 3D VR multi-user, real-t=
ime building environment, but that's not saying much considering such env=
ironments aren't even that popular to begin with. AW is like 3-4 years ol=
d now...it's development has been WAY slow. Only idiots still use softwar=
e rendering when cheap 3D cards can snap it with 4MB RAM tied behind thei=
r PCI/AGP slot. Gimme a break.

[View Quote] > and this would allow development ideas to be thought-through in some de=
tail
> by a lot of users, rather than individual pin-heads DEMANDING their ide=
a be
> developed RIGHT NOW.
>
> discussion on specific proposals could be done here in the NG, and once=

> sufficient support around a concensus form of the development, then it =
gets
> put up on a vote-list. Kind of pre-filtering to prevent prolific poste=
rs
> spamming the voting list to push their cause.
>
> Sheesh, you guys need to lobby more effectively...whinging does not get=

> results, but constructive community grass-roots activities do...just li=
ke in
> RL.

Eh, AW STILL doesn't have much community despite the INTENSE community ef=
fort put out by the citizens. Please try and stay current and informed be=
fore looking lame. In fact, I'd say most of the work has been done by Luc=
rezia Borgia in terms of "community" development. She must've cast a spel=
l on Rick or something...

> BTW, yes I have come back to AW after about 10 months away, and no I ha=
ven't
> been in the NG much at all, but I have been using AW since the bad old =
days
> of Worlds inc, and browsers that didn't dynamically download. From my
> perspective, the project has really come forward since then, but obviou=
sly
> not at the pace some would like.

Only a mere 10 months yet you think AW didn't dynamically download then? =
What crack you smoking? Better trace your AW history at http://tnlc.com/m=
auz/history.html and learn a little...

> Oh ,yeah Fluxen and TheCheese...don't fucking patronise me.

Yea, you do it WAY too much all by yourself. ;)

Dec 16, 1998, 7:12pm

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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charset="iso-8859-1"
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OK, been back in the NG 2 days and look at the replies I have got. =
Shows how serious some of you guys are about building community...I =
don't mind debating other points of view, but 'cause I like AW and the =
(admittedly imperfect but still progressive) ideas of COF doesnt make me =
an idiot.

Fluxen:

Are you new here? :)

MGIB:

Why new? There always been from time to time some sycophants poping in =
ngs with the same style and same arguments.=20

The Cheese:

hehe 8-) Lets bring this newbie to school 8-)

EEP:

Woo, your newness (renewness? awayness?) is DEFINITELY showing.=20

Please try and stay current and informed before looking lame.=20

What crack you smoking? Better trace your AW history at =
http://tnlc.com/mauz/history.html and learn a little...

------=_NextPart_000_006D_01BE2995.0D62D780
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV>OK, been back in the NG 2 days and look at the replies I have=20
got.&nbsp;&nbsp; Shows how serious some of you guys are about building=20
community...I don't mind debating other points of view, but 'cause I=20
<EM>like</EM> AW and the (admittedly imperfect but still progressive) =
ideas of=20
COF doesnt make me an idiot.</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>Fluxen:</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Are you new here? :)</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>MGIB</STRONG>:</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Why new? There always been from time to time some sycophants poping =
in ngs=20
with the same style and same arguments. </DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>The Cheese:</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>hehe 8-) Lets bring this newbie to school 8-)</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>EEP:</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Woo, your newness (renewness? awayness?) is DEFINITELY showing. =
</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>Please try and stay current and informed before looking lame. =
</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>What crack you smoking? Better trace your AW history at <A=20
href=3D"http://tnlc.com/mauz/history.html">http://tnlc.com/mauz/history.h=
tml</A>=20
and learn a little...</DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_006D_01BE2995.0D62D780--

Dec 16, 1998, 7:22pm

[View Quote] Only a mere 10 months yet you think AW didn't dynamically download then?
What crack you smoking? Better trace your AW history at
http://tnlc.com/mauz/history.html and learn a little...


I didn't say that...I was around just after the 1995 asteroid strike, about
December I think. I registered my current account a little later, in late
1996 I think. my citizen number is 126677. And sure, u may have been
around longer, but I have seen AW develop quite a lot and don't need to
check history sheets (although they are quite good).

> Oh ,yeah Fluxen and TheCheese...don't fucking patronise me.
Yea, you do it WAY too much all by yourself. ;)
OK sorry about that, won't happen again.

Dec 16, 1998, 7:34pm

[View Quote]
That is because COF is a company. Companies focus on staying profitable,
and sure you could cite TQM principles, or marketing focus on the customers,
but in the end it is their invested capital, and hence thier right to decide
what happens to the product, what gets developed and when. When a bigger
company buys out COF and puts in the time and $ required to make it the
killer app, guess what...they will want us to pay for it....watch the bleats
start then.


>Sure, it might be INTERESTING to see what "the community" wants, assuming
it's a legitiment voting system, but I seriously doubt COF will give a
shit...


I just thought a compiled wishlist FAQ would more clearly show what has
already been discussed, and where it might stand with COF. Also, given
that COF doesn't spend the time in this NG that you all would like, it might
be a means for COF to respond to wider consensus rather than not responding
to the deluge of individual requests. If you set it up at a web site, COF
could occassionally visit there and provide the "official" opinion on the
feasbility of widely wanted features.

Dec 16, 1998, 9:47pm

--------------7BD2B078E8F3F41A477A8ED7
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Because you gonna tell us how to build a community? You are talking of
business or community? What's this community where users are ignored?
And stop this lame argument we have heard so many times mixing up AW and
COF. As if you don't like the management , you don't like the product.


[View Quote] > OK, been back in the NG 2 days and look at the replies I have got.
> Shows how serious some of you guys are about building community...I
> don't mind debating other points of view, but 'cause I like AW and the
> (admittedly imperfect but still progressive) ideas of COF doesnt make
> me an idiot. Fluxen: Are you new here? :) MGIB: Why new? There always
> been from time to time some sycophants poping in ngs with the same
> style and same arguments. The Cheese: hehe 8-) Lets bring this newbie
> to school 8-) EEP: Woo, your newness (renewness? awayness?) is
> DEFINITELY showing. Please try and stay current and informed before
> looking lame. What crack you smoking? Better trace your AW history at
> http://tnlc.com/mauz/history.html and learn a little...



--------------7BD2B078E8F3F41A477A8ED7
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<HTML>
Because you gonna tell us how to build a community? You are talking of
business or community? What's this community where users are ignored?&nbsp;
And stop this lame argument we have heard so many times mixing up AW and
COF. As if you don't like the management , you don't like the product.
<BR>&nbsp;

[View Quote] --------------7BD2B078E8F3F41A477A8ED7--

Dec 16, 1998, 10:31pm

[View Quote] That *is* what I mean ;-)
That is inefficient. How would you call it!!?!

>that
>objects)
>
>I'm working on something like that.

Fine.
After all someone wakes up ;-)

so
>
>Roland is working on that, it should be implemented in the next release of
>the AWbrowser.

Cool.
At last.
Finally.
When?
Actually, what version will that be?


>
>Absolutely don't forget it. You don't need a T1 connection for that. And
>even if you did, compare the average modem-speed from 5 years ago with the
>average speed now... and think about the average speed of modems over 5
>years...

Indeed: in 5 years. But not now, here. ;-)
>
>
>

Dec 17, 1998, 6:23am

The >quoted> is the seemingly last message that is staying on subject...

Why don't you guys just ignore posts that seem to have no other reason then
to insight instigation. I read Eep's post and was just like "Oh great now
the whole thread that started out well, is going to be full of posts
regarding these types of comments, and 'who said what', 'no that's not
true', I did not say that', 'how dare you!', and blah blah blah" Then I
thought "Well maybe they just ignored it? Nah -- but you know what? that
would be a good idea"

(raiven waits as he is sure there will be posts from Eep declaring how he is
merely stating his opinion. And how this IS a place to discuss opinions blah
blah)

Ok so you have a right to your opinion. I am just saying if it serves no
purpose then to distract from our current discussion, and state your
complaints, please post it into a diff thread called "COF pisses me off" or
SOMETHING. :) Thanks

later

-raiven-

[View Quote]

Dec 17, 1998, 10:28am

[View Quote] um, stupid? Because lots of ppl have 3dfx/d3d cards, and they can make AW a
lot more pleasant. At current only a voodoo rush does something...

>
>
>Fine.
>After all someone wakes up ;-)

I'm still sleeping :-)

>
specified
>so
>
>Cool.
>At last.
>Finally.
>When?
>Actually, what version will that be?

2.1

>
>
>
>Indeed: in 5 years. But not now, here. ;-)

why? now here some ppl already have modems fast enough. And if it's
implemented, everyone who gets a faster modem can use it, too.

>
>

Dec 17, 1998, 11:43am

[View Quote] > Ok so you have a right to your opinion. I am just saying if it serves no
> purpose then to distract from our current discussion, and state your
> complaints, please post it into a diff thread called "COF pisses me off" or
> SOMETHING. :) Thanks

You missed it. As this wishlist ng is just about talking to a deaf wall without
any concern shown here by COF, it's already a "COF pisses me off (into the
wind)" ng.
They hadn't time yet to change the name, that's all.:)

Dec 17, 1998, 12:00pm

Objet:
Re: Wishlist FAQ? - Community?
la date:
Thu, 17 Dec 1998 22:45:58 +1100
De:
"David Watt" <watt at cia.com.au>
A:
"mgib" <mgib at worldnet.fr>

if you dont like the management, raise some capital and buy the rights
to the product. lets see you do a better job. easy to shoot your
mouth
off when its not your money up there.
-------

Curious how someone who started a thread in a public place suddenly
switches to arguments by private mail.
I understand somehow. You felt your arguments might be lame enough so
not to stand for them in public.

This is a very common practice for a company to answer to complaints
from customers by saying "try to do my job, and let's see if you can do
better".
It's welknown a company runs with its own money, not with the one of
its customers, so customers have no rights to feel concerned about the
service *they* paid for.

Errr.. you really know anything about business, or you are just trying
to bluff us?

Now to spare you a new mail, here is the usual following lame argument
you should be supposed to use:
"If you don't like it , leave it and ask to be refunded."
You don't like my car? Buy a japanese one! Now, THAT'S business LOLOL!!

Dec 17, 1998, 7:52pm

sorry about that, wrong button. happy to share discussion in public.

[View Quote]
What besides my MBA?
What besides running my own management consulting company?


> Now to spare you a new mail, here is the usual following lame argument
>you should be supposed to use:
> "If you don't like it , leave it and ask to be refunded."
> You don't like my car? Buy a japanese one! Now, THAT'S business LOLOL!!


No, I wouldn't tell you to "vote with your feet". All organisations must be
company focussed, and I grant COF aren't living up to your expectations.
What i am saying is that they have to balance a number of competing
priorities, including making money, so that YOU are not going to be their
main focus. Just because you bleat a lot, doesn't make you representative
of all customers either. Just cut them some slack, and realise that its
their show and they move the development forward in the direction and at the
pace they need to not how YOU need them to.

Dec 17, 1998, 7:58pm

So, after the flames, who has some ideas on setting up a FAQ?

By having it vailable on an AW website, with a once a month post here saying
(read the FAQ at ...) it will prevent "newbies" like me from opening old
wounds.

You can even include right at the top of the FAQ that COF doesn't actually
respond to the wishlist if that makes you happy.

I would really like to explore some of the development issues for AW, and
the wishlist faq and associated wish "voting and comment" idea is good.
allows us to actually work through some of the issues in detail associated
with each wish that

We can even channel some of the negative energy in the NG to playing devil's
advocate for each wish, highlighting technical and practical difficulties,
which the NG can have thought through before hitting COF with them.


[View Quote]

Dec 17, 1998, 8:08pm

[View Quote] [View Quote] You didn't?

> BTW, yes I have come back to AW after about 10 months away

Looks to me like you did...

Perhaps you should've stated this in the first place:

> I was around just after the 1995 asteroid strike, about
> December I think. I registered my current account a little later, in late
> 1996 I think. my citizen number is 126677. And sure, u may have been
> around longer, but I have seen AW develop quite a lot and don't need to
> check history sheets (although they are quite good).

Dec 17, 1998, 8:14pm

[View Quote] [View Quote] Eh, I'll believe it when I see it. Some pretty big names (Intel, Sony) have tried their stint at online multi-user 3D VR yet they've flopped. There just doesn't seem to be a big enough market for this...it's been 3-4 years...that's a LONG time in the computer industry, especially for something trying to catch on. Look at VRML. Need I say more?

> it's a legitiment voting system, but I seriously doubt COF will give a
> shit...
>
> I just thought a compiled wishlist FAQ would more clearly show what has
> already been discussed, and where it might stand with COF. Also, given
> that COF doesn't spend the time in this NG that you all would like, it might
> be a means for COF to respond to wider consensus rather than not responding
> to the deluge of individual requests. If you set it up at a web site, COF
> could occassionally visit there and provide the "official" opinion on the
> feasbility of widely wanted features.

OK, I think we need to stop talking about COF as a single organization and instead refer to the few people who make it up: Rick Noll (Enzo), JP (Cryonics), and Roland Vilette. If you knew more about the personalities of these people, you'd understand "COF" a little better.

Dec 17, 1998, 8:18pm

What you have to establish credentials before making comments here? how
elitist!

[View Quote]

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