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Nov 11, 1998, 4:58pm

Hello,

We are considering about the possibility for our laboratory to
experiment a little bit with (low cost) HDM, such as for instance the
VFX1. We are doing some research in the use of multi-users virtual
reality for use in electronic commerce. Practically, it consists in the
design of virtual shops where the customer can be helped by a sale
person (a real one represented by an avatar, or a bot), can interact
with other customers, etc. We are currently using the active world
technology (of course !).

The information that I have found on the Internet seem to imply that the
systems needs to have a special support HDM (which mean the systems need
to be custumized specially for HDM).
(http://www.insead.fr/CALT/Encyclopedia/ComputerSciences/VR/vrml.htm)

I am wrong in this assumption ?

Do you know about any experiment in using HDM in Active World ?

Any other suggestions, comments (not too nasty preferably), ideas, etc.

Thank you,

Thierry Nabeth
Research Fellow,
INSEAD CALT (the Centre for Advanced Learning Technologies)
http://www.insead.fr/CALT/
nabeth at insead.fr

Nov 11, 1998, 9:26pm

[View Quote] > Hello,
>
> We are considering about the possibility for our laboratory to
> experiment a little bit with (low cost) HDM, such as for instance the
> VFX1. We are doing some research in the use of multi-users virtual
> reality for use in electronic commerce. Practically, it consists in the
> design of virtual shops where the customer can be helped by a sale
> person (a real one represented by an avatar, or a bot), can interact
> with other customers, etc. We are currently using the active world
> technology (of course !).
>
> The information that I have found on the Internet seem to imply that the
> systems needs to have a special support HDM (which mean the systems need
> to be custumized specially for HDM).
> (http://www.insead.fr/CALT/Encyclopedia/ComputerSciences/VR/vrml.htm)
>
> I am wrong in this assumption ?
>

Depends, as a test enough exists now. I cannot see how you can research to
the point of a sale as all results obtained will be false.

> Do you know about any experiment in using HDM in Active World ?
>

No , but I bet a few exist..

> Any other suggestions, comments (not too nasty preferably), ideas, etc.
>

Too many limiting factors exist to make e-commerce a viable prospect in a
multi user virtual environment at this present time.

>

Klassi

Nov 12, 1998, 2:30pm

i don´t agree to your last sentence, Klassi.
"Too many limiting factors exist to make e-commerce a viable prospect in a
multi user virtual environment at this present time."
But we will see, and i would be very intereste in the forthcoming of the HMD
project, as this would be just a real gimmick. People generally do use
monitors, thats it.

Thorus Adama
chief editor www.cyb-magazin.de
mayor of Thorusville, AW
President CIC
inventor and builder of the Cyb Cafe Chain, former evosonic radio cafe chain
thinking of aw the best plattform to become e-commerce a true live experience
ppl will love tojoin

[View Quote] [View Quote]

Nov 12, 1998, 7:42pm

"we will see" ??? What we have been said here more than a year ago, still waiting
to see. In the meamtime Klassi is right . At the present time it doesn't work.

[View Quote] > i don´t agree to your last sentence, Klassi.
> "Too many limiting factors exist to make e-commerce a viable prospect in a
> multi user virtual environment at this present time."
> But we will see, and i would be very intereste in the forthcoming of the HMD
> project, as this would be just a real gimmick. People generally do use
> monitors, thats it.
>
> Thorus Adama
> chief editor www.cyb-magazin.de
> mayor of Thorusville, AW
> President CIC
> inventor and builder of the Cyb Cafe Chain, former evosonic radio cafe chain
> thinking of aw the best plattform to become e-commerce a true live experience
> ppl will love tojoin
>
[View Quote]

Nov 13, 1998, 7:55am

Hello,

Some more information I have found in the Criterion Renderware web site:

====( http://www.csl.com/RenderWare/rwtech.htm )===
RenderWare® V2.1 released May 97.

Support for Stereo

With the impending rush of low cost stereo glasses and headsets onto the market, the
demand
for compatible 3D games is set to soar. Serious game developers need to ensure their
games
offer support for this exciting new area. RenderWare helps you take all this in your
stride.

Support has already been announced for the following stereo and immersive devices:-

* 3D-MAXTM - Kasan Electronics
The world's first low cost stereo, LCD shutter glasses. 3D-MAX makes it possible to
view
dramatic stereo color graphics, in sharp flicker free detail.

* i*glassesTM - Virtual I.O
Ultra lightweight, high quality and high resolution stereo head mounted display with
head-tracking.

* 7th SenseTM - All-Pro Products
A head mounted display, providing a first person immersive experience with advanced
liquid
crystal display and wide angle, high resolution images.

==========( end of extract )========

Still some questions still need to be answered such as:

What do they mean by "Support has already been announced" ?
Does it mean that the support was not yet implemented in May 1997 ?
Has it been implemented end of 1998 ?

Does the support for HDM in Renderware implies, that HDM are automatically supported
in Active Worlds,
or is there something to do ?


work.

We are a research centre, so our objective is to identify/invent approachs that will
work in the future (preferably
a not too far future) rather than exploiting very mature approachs.

I personally believe that 3D ecommerce makes a lot of sense, and in a not too far
future, and I am waiting (and try
to contribute) for the inflection point were many people (and not only early
adopters) will generally consider multi-user
VR for ecommerce an an operationnal solution.

There are still many limitation (technical and not technical), but I also see
solution that are being proposed such as:
* bots technologies. (AW SDK).
* experiments conducted in Outerworld.
* trading of personal and public objects. (such as it has been annouced in the next
release 4.0 of Blaxxun technology).
. I believe this is somethinmg we will see coming somtime in AW.


Concerning our work with HDM, I am still not yet convinced about the value they
generate, since I am personally interested
by solution that can be used by a very large audience (can HDM really be used by a
large audiance ?).
But, experimenting can bring some usefull ideas. HDM can be good just as a promotion
tool (and attract more user),
and perhaps facilitate the building process.

So I will try to collect more information about HDMs, and see if we can use thems.
(this action is not high priority, but will be present in the "back of my head" as
something nice to explore).

Bye,
And thanks for your comments

Thierry Nabeth,
INSEAD CALT
http://www.insead.fr/CALT/




[View Quote] > "we will see" ??? What we have been said here more than a year ago, still waiting
> to see. In the meamtime Klassi is right . At the present time it doesn't work.
>
[View Quote]

Nov 15, 1998, 9:13pm

[View Quote] > Hello,
>

Hello..

> Some more information I have found in the Criterion Renderware web site:
>
> ====( http://www.csl.com/RenderWare/rwtech.htm )===
> RenderWare® V2.1 released May 97.
>
> Support for Stereo
>
> With the impending rush of low cost stereo glasses and headsets onto the market, the
> demand
> for compatible 3D games is set to soar. Serious game developers need to ensure their
> games
> offer support for this exciting new area. RenderWare helps you take all this in your
> stride.
>
> Support has already been announced for the following stereo and immersive devices:-
>
> * 3D-MAXTM - Kasan Electronics
> The world's first low cost stereo, LCD shutter glasses. 3D-MAX makes it possible to
> view
> dramatic stereo color graphics, in sharp flicker free detail.
>
> * i*glassesTM - Virtual I.O
> Ultra lightweight, high quality and high resolution stereo head mounted display with
> head-tracking.
>
> * 7th SenseTM - All-Pro Products
> A head mounted display, providing a first person immersive experience with advanced
> liquid
> crystal display and wide angle, high resolution images.
>

All very nice , every home should have them but 90% of the worlds population haven't
heard of such things.

> Still some questions still need to be answered such as:
>
> What do they mean by "Support has already been announced" ?
> Does it mean that the support was not yet implemented in May 1997 ?
> Has it been implemented end of 1998 ?
>

Many firms are watching and waiting and have said they will support the devices, some
time in the future if there is enough demand..

> Does the support for HDM in Renderware implies, that HDM are automatically supported
> in Active Worlds,
> or is there something to do ?
>

An interface!.

> We are a research centre, so our objective is to identify/invent approachs that will
> work in the future (preferably
> a not too far future) rather than exploiting very mature approachs.
>

Waiting and watching market trends is one thing, creating and then satisfying a market
isn't easy.

> I personally believe that 3D ecommerce makes a lot of sense, and in a not too far
> future, and I am waiting (and try
> to contribute) for the inflection point were many people (and not only early
> adopters) will generally consider multi-user
> VR for ecommerce an an operationnal solution.
>

Well it is possible as I could sell via that means and know how to bring in the users to
achieve the sales needed to make it economically viable but others means are available to
me which are allot easier to implement and achieve the same ends.

> There are still many limitation (technical and not technical), but I also see
> solution that are being proposed such as:
> * bots technologies. (AW SDK).
> * experiments conducted in Outerworld.
> * trading of personal and public objects. (such as it has been annouced in the next
> release 4.0 of Blaxxun technology).
> . I believe this is somethinmg we will see coming somtime in AW.
>

Well I can tell you have researched and I bet you enjoyed yourself whizzing around. A
solution to ?, creating yet another medium to sell things, or should I say utilizing an
existing medium. Is this something that the AW community wants?..Most get emails each day
offering discounted items, many web pages have flashing adverts, special offers, sponsors
etc.

> Concerning our work with HDM, I am still not yet convinced about the value they
> generate, since I am personally interested
> by solution that can be used by a very large audience (can HDM really be used by a
> large audiance ?).

Yes for games consoles, but not multi user in large numbers.

> But, experimenting can bring some usefull ideas. HDM can be good just as a promotion
> tool (and attract more user),
> and perhaps facilitate the building process.

Wake me up when we have holographic monitors, TVs and telephones, should be about two
decades after we get true voice input and throw our keyboards away.

Klassi

Nov 16, 1998, 1:41pm

Currently I am also working on the use of HMD's for AW. I have found so far
the Virtual I/O glasses have given the best results. It has a SDK driver for
use specifically for the windows95 & 98 platform. It also allows use of
mouse emulation and setup of hot keys. This basically means that the Virtual
I/O can be used now for AW. But.....and there always seems to be a but,
there are some drawbacks to the Virtual I/O and AW's use of it.
*1st off...The Virtual I/O's only work in 640x480 res. which to me really
suxs
*2nd AW does not currently have a full screen mode which would be needed for
best results...
*and 3rd If you use the Virtual I/O's...you cant use the mouse at the same
time in AW..which keeps you from selecting or activating things that need
the mouse input.
As part of my current research, I have been incorporating the use of the SDK
to make a driver that will at least allow use of the mouse and Virtual I/O's
at the same time and use of a joystick also.




[View Quote]

Nov 17, 1998, 7:09am

Hello,

Thank you very much for this information.

We were indeed considering to do some experiments with the i-glass.
(a friend of mine will lend us i-glasses for our experiments, before buying
some).

I remind you for those interested that I have collected some information about
HDM at:
http://www.insead.fr/CALT/Encyclopedia/ComputerSciences/VR/vrml.htm

In particular I recomand you to have a look at Stereo3D
http://www.stereo3d.com/

Bye,

Thierry, -- calt
http://www.insead.fr/CALT/

[View Quote] > Currently I am also working on the use of HMD's for AW. I have found so far
> the Virtual I/O glasses have given the best results. It has a SDK driver for
> use specifically for the windows95 & 98 platform. It also allows use of
> mouse emulation and setup of hot keys. This basically means that the Virtual
> I/O can be used now for AW. But.....and there always seems to be a but,
> there are some drawbacks to the Virtual I/O and AW's use of it.
> *1st off...The Virtual I/O's only work in 640x480 res. which to me really
> suxs
> *2nd AW does not currently have a full screen mode which would be needed for
> best results...
> *and 3rd If you use the Virtual I/O's...you cant use the mouse at the same
> time in AW..which keeps you from selecting or activating things that need
> the mouse input.
> As part of my current research, I have been incorporating the use of the SDK
> to make a driver that will at least allow use of the mouse and Virtual I/O's
> at the same time and use of a joystick also.
>
[View Quote]

Nov 18, 1998, 6:40pm

OK, you have my atention... how much do i-glasses Virtual I/O glasses cost, what
else are they compatible with (other worlds/ games (QuakeII *hopeing
wistfully*)) and when do realistically think that your sdk driver will be
released? I would sincearly love to get a HMD, but dont want to buy somthing if
it won't be worth it. Thanks Chris (aka Duma in ZurichIV)

[View Quote] > Currently I am also working on the use of HMD's for AW. I have found so far
> the Virtual I/O glasses have given the best results. It has a SDK driver for
> use specifically for the windows95 & 98 platform. It also allows use of
> mouse emulation and setup of hot keys. This basically means that the Virtual
> I/O can be used now for AW. But.....and there always seems to be a but,
> there are some drawbacks to the Virtual I/O and AW's use of it.
> *1st off...The Virtual I/O's only work in 640x480 res. which to me really
> suxs
> *2nd AW does not currently have a full screen mode which would be needed for
> best results...
> *and 3rd If you use the Virtual I/O's...you cant use the mouse at the same
> time in AW..which keeps you from selecting or activating things that need
> the mouse input.
> As part of my current research, I have been incorporating the use of the SDK
> to make a driver that will at least allow use of the mouse and Virtual I/O's
> at the same time and use of a joystick also.
>
[View Quote]

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