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Apr 21, 2001, 2:51pm

So now you're claiming that Activeworlds sold you a "mystery bag" when it came to citizenship? You knew exactly what was available when you paid AWCI.


-Agent1


[View Quote]

Apr 21, 2001, 3:09pm

Feel free to submit any data here for me too look at. As long as you make
references and don't show anything for us to see, we will have to mind read
what you are thinking to conclude the same thing you are referring to, and
that ain't going to be easy.


[View Quote]

Apr 21, 2001, 3:13pm

I paid for citizenship, and went ahead building. I wanted to change my
background and ran into a snag.

Oh well, that's where my money stops. I won't pay Active Worlds until I see
them give what I want. You can burn me once, but you can't a second time.

I am glad I didn't buy a world and true space. That has saved me $150 which
I can use for some tasty sushi, hehe.

Bottomline, Activeworlds is good. However, their pricing is not reasonable
when you consider limitations of choice. I came to build here, and I want
to build. That includes the background.

[View Quote]

Apr 21, 2001, 4:13pm

[View Quote] > I paid for citizenship, and went ahead building. I wanted to change my
> background and ran into a snag.

Its not YOUR background its everyones background.

If you want your OWN background, stop being so cheap and buy a world, but
dont expect to change the background in a public world open to all:)

If you want your own background, do the picture object thing and build a
wall round your house so you can be in your own private world.

>
> Oh well, that's where my money stops. I won't pay Active Worlds until I
see
> them give what I want. You can burn me once, but you can't a second time.
>

They haven't burnt you, if you were capable of reading you could have found
out WHY you cant change the background before you bought your citizenship.


> I am glad I didn't buy a world and true space. That has saved me $150
which
> I can use for some tasty sushi, hehe.

I assume you'll want to be able to change the wallpaper in the restaraunt
because youve bought a meal there?

> Bottomline, Activeworlds is good. However, their pricing is not
reasonable
> when you consider limitations of choice. I came to build here, and I want
> to build. That includes the background.

In case you still haven't realised, the background is not a build object..
but if you find a way to change it then I can assure you that I will run a
bot that every time you change it I will change it back immediately.

I do agree in one thing however, its far to cheap, but luckily the money
comes from commercial applications so don't worry, your $20 won't be missed
when you go.

You are nothing but a troll depeperately trying to prove how inane and tight
you are.

Goodbye, you are the weakest link.

Moria

Apr 21, 2001, 4:16pm

LOLOL I'm not offended, in fact I haven't laughed so much at stupidity for
a long time:)

Sorry, let me clarify..

You are making a suggestion which is as follows...

I am to tight to buy a world, so I would rather affect everyone else who
uses AW so that my own personal gratifaction can be satiated for 75% of a
world license fee.

I think that sums it up.

As I said before, when are you leaving.

Goodbye, you ARE the weakest link.

Moria


[View Quote]

Apr 21, 2001, 4:27pm

"Its not YOUR background its everyones background."

If people post a picture and have it clickable, everyone can download the
picture into a reserved spot for background assignment if they want. I am
not asking AW to take my background and force anyone else to use it. If AW
makes ANY pic downloadable then it is a choice of everyone to use or not
use.

"If you want your OWN background, stop being so cheap and buy a world, but
dont expect to change the background in a public world open to all:)"

That was never my intention. To reinforce my point, it would be a download
option. You download pic 1 and use it as a background. If you want pic 2,
download pic 2. You choose which background you want instead of Active
Worlds choosing it for you. That doesn't have to be a $80 minimum cost. It
can be a reduced fee of what I propose %75 of a citizenship ($15).

"If you want your own background, do the picture object thing and build a
wall round your house so you can be in your own private world."

That was a thought, but if you look at the pictures available to us in AW
world, you will see the only ones big are see through giving a shower
curtain effect. They aren't solid pictures.

I would love (strike that), I would hate to tell my clients I webdesign for
that they are just being cheap because they want a particular background to
their page without paying for a bunch of extras they don't need or want on
their site. Not sure I would continue making much business with that kind
of attitude.

[View Quote]

Apr 21, 2001, 4:37pm

If you take a closer look at what I am saying, you will get a more accurate
proposal. I am not requesting 1 particular image be forced upon citizens as
Active Worlds is doing now and what your response seemed to categorize me
under.

It is very much the opposite. You could have your picture where your area
is. People come to it and there could be a sign or a picture sample like in
the objects yard with pics whereby people could preview your picture. If
they didn't want that picture as a background, then they simply don't click
the button and leave things the way they are.

People do this all the time with skins on winamp, and in chat programs such
as odigo. There are even sections you can submit your own.

This is definately doable and at no time do I want any one pic to be forced
on anyone.



[View Quote]

Apr 21, 2001, 4:39pm

[View Quote]

> I would love (strike that), I would hate to tell my clients I webdesign
for
> that they are just being cheap because they want a particular background
to
> their page without paying for a bunch of extras they don't need or want on
> their site. Not sure I would continue making much business with that kind
> of attitude.

Do you charge more than $80 for a website? If so then why not pay $80 for a
world/website and you can do what you like, as your customers can when they
buy one of your websites.

If you DON'T charge at least $80 for a website, then get real and don't
expect everyone else to be as dumb as you to not charge.

Moria

Apr 22, 2001, 2:25am

"Do you charge more than $80 for a website?"

A website yes, to just change the background no. I don't see what you are
trying to get at by asking that.

"If so then why not pay $80 for a world/website and you can do what you
like, as your customers can when they buy one of your websites."

That assumes I need all the stuff a world has to offer. Rephrasing myself
from before, If I did a website and added extra things my client didn't need
nor want and charged them for it, how would that make me look to other
customers? (I am not a mechanic, just joking folks LOL)

"If you DON'T charge at least $80 for a website, then get real and don't
expect everyone else to be as dumb as you to not charge."

Ok, so you are saying AW wants/needs at least $80

They should then offer services which add up to that $80 and not make it the
next dollar amount after buying a citizenship. That is just poor marketing
to an economical customer.

I want to weigh the services and choose what I want to pay for. If AW wants
to have at least $80, I will to pay $69.95 for true space to use my own
objects in AW (Alpha World, Mars, Wild AW, etc..) and $15 for the ability to
change the background in AW (Alpha World, Mars, Wild AW, etc..). The total
comes to about $85.00. This is a useful package to me, and even though I
don't really need True Space it will however give them the $80 you appear to
be arguing they would need.

I would have no problem with that, but right now everyone that comes to
Active Worlds is in a catch 22. If you buy true space, then you can create
your own objects. However, all they say about True Space is that it "is
available to citizens" but they say nothing about needing a world first in
order to actually use it. Same thing with a world, if you buy a world, you
have to pay more for a program to make objects. I don't want people double
dipping in my wallet when I go to the checkout counter. AW can try that
tactic all they want, but that will give me more of a reason to not buy a
world or TS yet. My advice, save your money until they offer a combo. That
is a more honest approach.

[View Quote]

Apr 22, 2001, 3:36am

[View Quote] > I would have no problem with that, but right now everyone that comes to
> Active Worlds is in a catch 22. If you buy true space, then you can
create
> your own objects. However, all they say about True Space is that it "is
> available to citizens" but they say nothing about needing a world first in
> order to actually use it.

Bzzzzt wrong.. you dont need a world in order to use truespace for 3d
modelling, its a stand alone program.

> Same thing with a world, if you buy a world, you
> have to pay more for a program to make objects.

Bzzzztttt wrong.. you can build objects in notepad, you dont need an
additional program.


>I don't want people double
> dipping in my wallet when I go to the checkout counter.

They dont.

>AW can try that
> tactic all they want, but that will give me more of a reason to not buy a
> world or TS yet. My advice, save your money until they offer a combo.
That
> is a more honest approach.
>

Its not a forced combo because truespace isn't needed, but if you WANT
truespace theres a special offer.

Now go get your facts straight and stop whining.

Moria

Apr 22, 2001, 3:57am

No, I understand, if you want to change a backdrop in a world by clicking,
you can do it if you purcahse the world and program a bot. There wont as far
as I know, ever be a feature to change someone elses backdrop, in a world
that does not belong to them.

Facter



[View Quote]

Apr 22, 2001, 4:42am

"No, I understand, if you want to change a backdrop in a world by clicking,
you can do it if you purcahse the world and program a bot."

That will be $80, I am not paying that much just to flick a switch so I can
use a background. I think that feature can be put in place at a reduced fee
making a win win situation for both citizen and Active Worlds.

"There wont as far as I know, ever be a feature to change someone elses
backdrop, in a world that does not belong to them."

If by "someone elses" you mean citizen, I do not want to change another
citizen's background. I was addressing worlds that Active Worlds has like
AW and AWteen.



[View Quote]

Apr 22, 2001, 4:48am

"Bzzzzt wrong.. you dont need a world in order to use truespace for 3d
modelling, its a stand alone program."

I never said you couldn't use truespace by itself, but when you do "use
truespace for 3d modelling", that is as far as you can go. You can't bring
those objects into AW world or AWteen. That is where they get you. You
then have to buy a world if you want to use it for building.

"Bzzzztttt wrong.. you can build objects in notepad, you dont need an
additional program."

Are you serious? Where is this feature in notepad to allow me to build
objects with, let me get this straight, you are saying "notepad"?

Notepad helps keep track of file names, I don't think you can actually build
objects in it.

"Now go get your facts straight...."

I say the same to you, unless you can show me how to build objects in
notepad, I doubt you have your facts straight.






[View Quote]

Apr 22, 2001, 5:38am

You talk a lot of stuff about things you do not understand.

And trying to explain it does not help unless you try to understand.

You do not even know what notepad is and try to discuss world
server stuff? Forget it unless you are willing to learn some
basics about AW technology.

[View Quote]

Apr 22, 2001, 6:13am

[View Quote]

Apr 22, 2001, 6:22am

"You talk a lot of stuff about things you do not understand."

That is what people do a lot. To better understand what you don't know, you
discuss it among your peers. I don't see anything wrong with that.

"And trying to explain it does not help unless you try to understand."

Have you tried to explain it?

"You do not even know what notepad is and try to discuss world
server stuff?"

As far as a citizen is concerned, within the use of the Active Worlds
program to build in worlds like AW and AW teen, I don't see where notepad
comes into play outside of tracking filenames and actions. Perhaps there is
a higher level use for world owners that is not applicable in this instance.

If you know of somethings that notepad can be used for by citizens in worlds
such as AW AWteen, feel free to mention them.

"Forget it unless you are willing to learn some
basics about AW technology."

I am here, willing to learn about the basics of AW technology.



[View Quote]

Apr 22, 2001, 6:39am

[View Quote] Not me, several others tried, but with little success.
I am just one of those poor people who are too curious to
use filters.

> "You do not even know what notepad is and try to discuss world
> server stuff?"
>
> As far as a citizen is concerned, within the use of the Active Worlds
> program to build in worlds like AW and AW teen, I don't see where notepad
> comes into play outside of tracking filenames and actions. Perhaps there is
> a higher level use for world owners that is not applicable in this instance.
>
> If you know of somethings that notepad can be used for by citizens in worlds
> such as AW AWteen, feel free to mention them.

This is what you said : "Notepad helps keep track of file names,
I don't think you can actually build objects in it."

Well, you can. Objects and avatar geometry, some even do the
tags and joints with notepad I heard.

> "Forget it unless you are willing to learn some
> basics about AW technology."
>
> I am here, willing to learn about the basics of AW technology.

You should know then that the backdrop is a world feature,
not an object attribute. This is explained several times in
this thread. They even explained to you how you can change the
backdrop for yourself.

--
"_
|
/\
\ /
__/ /_

Apr 22, 2001, 7:05am

I was talking about AW and AWteen. Read the thread. I was not addressing a
world I could own.

[View Quote]

Apr 22, 2001, 7:52am

>
> Are you serious? Where is this feature in notepad to allow me to build
> objects with, let me get this straight, you are saying "notepad"?
>

No I am not saying "notepad" I am saying notepad. I think youve been
watching too much Austin Powers, real people dont hold up their hands and
wave in quotemarks around names.

> Notepad helps keep track of file names, I don't think you can actually
build
> objects in it.

I think you should just change that to I dont think.

Notepad is a text editor, objects are text files. Just cause you don't
understand either objects or world principles it doesn't mean it can't be
used... its a bit like not understanding that you cant change defaults on a
FREE generic world, in the same way as you can't change the pop up on the
yahoo websites that you get for free.

In fact it is this lack of understanding that makes you seem so amusing and
permeates your arguments with idiocy.

People have been building objects in notepad ever since AW came along, in
the early days it was all we had, and even now for some its quicker than
using a modeller which generates too many vertices for simple objects to be
useful.

In fact you can even build avatars in notepad, and some of the longtimers
will even tell you that I wrote a program using a window based on notepad to
build your own with an interface on the front to make it easy.

Now, go away and stop trying to twist the conversation by saying I only
meant AW or AWTeen.. in fact, as it happens, most objects were built by
citizens using notepad that were then submitted to AW to include in AW.

Of course, that was in the days when people LEARN'T what was possible
instead of just whining about it was to expensive (when in reality its
avctually to cheap) and having everyone else laugh at them.

However I would like to thank you for giving me so much amusement.

Feel free to have the last word after this, unless its particularly amusing,
I see no reason to correspond further with someone who is the weakest link a
nd has no ability to read and understand.

Please advise of your websites youve designed so that we can go and laugh
further.

Goodbye.

Moria

Apr 22, 2001, 8:17am

I am sure authorship as your would win a nobel prize in the FICTION
category!!! Just make up whatever interpretation of my words you want
without reading the intent. I am having just as much amusement that someone
who claims to have hands on experience as you isn't willing or won't
recognize what I am presenting.

Now, on a practical level let's see what newcomers to AW probably do:

1) download AW
2) install AW
3) sign on as tourist
4) learn to build with objects in AW object yard

If you are saying I can use "notepad", I am using quotes to stress, to build
objects then you are not applying its usage to AW or AW teen. Active Worlds
as I understand uses paths to accept or reject objects to be used in a
particular world.

Therefore, whatever capabilities I may have or in this case do not have with
notepad to create said objects you mention within your posts are not useful
for a citizen who wants to build in AW or AW teen since at no point does
AW's path go or will go to an object created by that citizen.

I would like to see someone respond in a more practical manner than just
claiming to know a lot of technical stuff that can't be useful to a citizen
in AW or AWteen.

[View Quote]

Apr 22, 2001, 8:58am

[View Quote] > If you are saying I can use "notepad", I am using quotes to stress, to
build
> objects then you are not applying its usage to AW or AW teen.

You didn't state AW or AWTEEN you said it can't be used to make objects
period. soooo bzzzzzzzzzttttttt wrong again.

In fact for a lot of AW and AWTEEN, as I said in my work of fiction, many of
the models were created with notepad. They may not have been assembled into
buildings in notepad, but they were created in notepad. sooo bzzzzzzzzzttt
wrong again a second time.

If you mean you can't use notepad to BUILD in AW and AWTEEN I might agree
with you, but in fact thats not quite true either but its a bit
convoluted.. you have to use the output of notepad to feed a build bot or a
macro to make that little trick work. so bzzzzzzzztt wrong for the third
time.

People can't mindread.. I did try but theres this huge haze where yours
should have been. Try stating what you are thinking clearly and consisely
otherwise you will get responses based on what you say not what you were
thinking.

>Active Worlds
> as I understand uses paths to accept or reject objects to be used in a
> particular world.

ermmmm sorta, not fully correct though.

When you type in a model name it first accesses a registry file (if used in
that world) to see if it is legal to use, if it is, then and only then does
it go and looks at the path options for the world, determines the directory
it needs, then looks for it, if it finds it it then downloads it. Then it
references the textures included in the model, downloads it and places it
and displays it on your screen. Finally it applies any action command fields
on the object.

It doesn't use paths to reject items, if there is no registry then it goes
straight to the path and if it cannot find the object either on the legal
path or local path it just applies the default triangle, so yes partially
right, although you can bypass this with a local path in any world, but then
all people there have to have that object on a local path in order to see
it, and this won't work easily in a registry governed world.

In addition, thanks to some people who know what they are talking about,
theres now an excellent facility in some worlds to use secondary paths which
has helped enormously.. but yoiu won't be interested in that cause it wont
ever go near AW or AWTEEN I wouldn't have thought.

>
> Therefore, whatever capabilities I may have or in this case do not have
with
> notepad to create said objects you mention within your posts are not
useful
> for a citizen who wants to build in AW or AW teen since at no point does
> AW's path go or will go to an object created by that citizen.

Nice twist but actually not correct. I can pick up a number of objects in
AW that I built (in Notepad) because I submitted them to AW and got them
accepted. Of course, any citizen can submit objects that they have built..
whether they get accepted or not depends on the owner of that world, in this
case AWCOM. Also see above re local paths, it won't work in AW but I don't
know if AWTEEN has a registry in operation.. I guess it probably does if it
allows for user building, so in some cases AW's path does go to objects
created by citizens. so bzzzzzzzzzzt wrong for the fourth time.

>
> I would like to see someone respond in a more practical manner than just
> claiming to know a lot of technical stuff that can't be useful to a
citizen
> in AW or AWteen.

If you want to restrict yourself to AW and AWTEEN then I suggest you state
that as opposed to blanket statements such as you can't use Notepad to build
objects with which only make you look silly as they are blatantly wrong.

If you had said you can't use notepad to easily assemble objects in the
worlds to make buildings then I would have agreed with you, but you didn't
so, once again you look silly and I get another laugh. bzttzzzzzzzttttt
number 5

Finally I suggest you start to read these replys before you answer them so
that you can try to grasp that people have already given you the answers you
need, even if they are not necessarily the answers you want.

PS where are the websites you've done?

Moria

Apr 22, 2001, 9:41am

If you read each of my threads you will see what I was thinking because I
typed them out. If you just target the ones you responded to and copy one
of my sentences in my posts or just a set of them then you are taking them
out of context and not getting the full picture.

This is mainly why I am not addressing your posts in more detail here
because they don't relate to worlds like AW and AWteen. I would rather
stick AW and AWteen since that is where I want to build at.

My response to the initial post dealt with background changing in worlds
like AW and AWteen manually vs. a bot, and I mentioned it many times
repeating myself in many places to insure people who might only read one or
two posts would still get the main point that I wanted to change backgrounds
at a lesser fee than $80. As the posts grew, I had to section out stuff to
clarify specifics so that the person I was responding to could get a clearer
understanding of my point of view. It's all there, you just have to look at
the thread.


[View Quote]

Apr 22, 2001, 12:40pm

[View Quote] Your logic is flawed. Changing a background on a webpage is like being the one with access to a world's attributes and changing it there. What you're proposing would allow anyone to change the background image of any "public-use" website (IE - Not when the page is created, but when they view it).


-Agent1

Apr 22, 2001, 12:46pm

[View Quote] Let's see what you get for that $80 fee...

$70 - "World 'License' " (...)
$10 - Actual fee to have a certain world; on renewal, this is what you pay.

You are not paying $80 to change someone else's backgrounds because THIS IS NOT CURRENTLY A FEATURE! If you own a world, you can do what you like with it. If you don't like AW's background, set up a local path that overrides it with one you can live with.


-Agent1

Apr 22, 2001, 1:40pm

"You are not paying $80 to change someone else's backgrounds..."

I agree, I am not.


"...THIS IS NOT CURRENTLY A FEATURE!"

I hope it never becomes a feature.


"If you own a world, you can do what you like with it."

Whoohoo, but I am not milking AW's pockets in order to do it. I have
already proposed what I feel is a fairer price. I even emailed Active
Worlds on how they could market a combo of services and get more money.
Selling a world initially at $80 is way too much for someone who just wants
to change the background, which brings us to your last comment.

"If you don't like AW's background, set up a local path that overrides it
with one you can live with."

Are you saying people who visit me will see the change as well when I set
this up (without them doing any extra work from the norm)?




[View Quote]

Apr 22, 2001, 2:04pm

[View Quote]
Why should you be able to alter their perception of the world? If they want to see it, tell them how to create a local path as well...

-Agent1

Apr 22, 2001, 2:11pm

"Your logic is flawed. Changing a background on a webpage is like being the
one with access to a world's attributes and changing it there."

If I am a webdesigner for a client, then I make the changes not the client.
My logic isn't flawed because I am equating the webdesigner with a builder
using Active Worlds REGARDLESS if they own a world or not.

Now, to make "flawless logic" from that section of your post, I will assume
you are equating webdesigner with specifically a WORLD OWNER, not just a
builder using Active Worlds. In that case, we are talking about 2 different
things, the way it is now (which you seem to be projecting) and what I am
proposing could be in the future.

"What you're proposing would allow anyone to change the background image of
any "public-use" website (IE - Not when the page is created, but when they
view it)."

The only way that last part of your post can be logically valid is if the
visitor is in fact the builder who has the account rights to the location
with the background or has the private password. Otherwise, they can NOT
make any changes regarding that area and are someone who is merely viewing
the build (including background) and NOT making a single change as you are
asserting. The builders are the ones who would be supplying the backgrounds
for download. To equate this with webdesigning, say I make 2 sites. One
site is flash based, and the other is html without flash. The visitor to
the site has a choice to pick either page, and thus viewing background 1 in
the flash page, or viewing background 2 in the html page. The visitor
didn't change the page in any way when they went to see it.


[View Quote]

Apr 22, 2001, 2:26pm

Well, at least we are getting closer to talking about the same thing. But
we just quite aren't there yet.

"Why should you be able to alter their perception of the world?"

If I made a build, then I am the one with the "intended" perception not the
world owner who may not even know I made the build. Why not present that
build (including background) to the person and if they want another
perception then they can become a builder and make a change. If you made a
build in AW or AWteen and wanted a background with pink and purple polka
dots, even though I am not too crazy about pink and purple polka dots, I
would view your build with the pink and purple polka dots background because
that is how you intended it.

"If they want to see it, tell them how to create a local path as well..."

That is something I will have to do for now seeing that people are saying it
is possible. If I made the changes would those changes be stored in the
Active Worlds directory? If so, then I probably just zip the files and have
people download the zip and use that. Then the changes will be automatic
for them, but I am not sure if that is possible or not yet.


[View Quote]

Apr 22, 2001, 5:00pm

Ummm . . . right. The backdrops of worlds such as AW and AWTeen were
put there by a citizen. If you want to change a backdrop buy your own damned
world. And don't give me that crap about "$80 to flick a switch" and blah
blah blah. You don't have any valid points to your argument. This feature
most likely will not be added, just drop it.

[View Quote]

Apr 22, 2001, 5:25pm

"Ummm . . . right. The backdrops of worlds such as AW and AWTeen were
put there by a citizen."

I would like to see someone like Roland confirm that. Until then, I beg to
differ. I don't think a citizen put "backdrops" (background?) there unless
they were given special rights beyond the norm.


"If you want to change a backdrop buy your own damned world."

For $80? ok, give me $80 and I will do it. Then, I have some swamp land to
sell in Florida, you are sure to love it.


"And don't give me that crap about "$80 to flick a switch" and blah
blah blah. You don't have any valid points to your argument."

Well, you are sure showing your valid points with all the blahs. I think I
need to take notes on your extensive use of the word "blah".


"This feature most likely will not be added, just drop it."

I have been telling people on AW about this wonderful thread and people seem
to agree with me. Why should we have to pay $80 for a bigger package if all
we want to do is change the background? It may not be a valid point, but it
sure is a valid question.

To support this valid question, I will provide valid points to validate the
validity and therefore validate my thoughts on the issue which you say I
can't validate.

1. A world offers various unique features that a non world owner can not
have access to.
2. Changing background/backdrop is one feature that a world offers.
3. Therefore, the ONE feature of changing the background is PART OF THE
TOTAL number of features found within the world's unique features.

If a feature is part of a whole set of features, then it should not carry
the same value/dollar amount that the set of features has. It should hold a
value = PART OF THE TOTAL. This is just common sense and a valid point when
addressing costs involved with selling services to Active World's citizens.








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