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Apr 20, 2001, 1:17pm

Sorry, this was meant to be posted under the administration account , nor
the run facter run one =)

F.

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Apr 20, 2001, 2:45pm

wow....what a string...ok heres my views...

First off I think no-one here is being unresonable...M a r c u s, I'm
guessing hasent been around Active Worlds as long as the rest of us and he
dosent understand the more technical side to AW and how it actully works.

Holistic. I think your idea of a Theme, one which could be setup then all
the settings saved as a AWTheme file which could be uploaded to an op then
specified in the Features box, would actually be a great idea...

Better yet why not make it so that you, once having setup the features box
be able to save all the settings, features, rights, lights and fog, etc.. as
one big Preset which can be loaded in the features box and the browser reads
the settings files and sets everything accordingly....

Holistic...nice idea...and I spose its quite possible. Although I think
Active Worlds right now is more concerned about keeping Active Worlds up to
date technilogically with the best possible performace and more building
features and wouldnt think of adding frilzz like this until they have
finished the core work.

The thing is that AW never will finish they're work keeping to up to date
becuase computers are getting more and more advanced everyday and as soon as
one version of active worlds is out of BETA. Computers are already months
ahead of it and theres demand for a new version.

I think both M a r c u s and Holastic have made interesting suggestions.
PErhaps more suited to the wishlist forum. But neverless lets not flame them
for making suggestions. Even if it is apparent that they don't understand
parts of how the software works...


-Gamer

Apr 20, 2001, 8:09pm

What do you mean "I made a post that fit the criteria?" Your post has
nothing to do with bots, but a feature that would have to be implemented
into AW, which most likely will not be added, and not a feature implemented
into the SDK. This is the bots newsgroup not the community newsgroup. The
initial post was about bots. Maybe you should post in Wishlist, that would
be a more reasonable thing to do.
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Apr 20, 2001, 9:08pm

LOL ... Dopey.

IT IS A PRODUCT ... NOT A PICK AND MIX !!!


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Apr 21, 2001, 12:05am

I think some of you are being too harsh to M a r c u s. Although I agree
he should have posted this in the wishlist group, in my opinion, he does
have a good idea. The way I interpret his idea is that the user would be
able to change a world's backdrop (in either public OR private worlds).
If the owner of a world doesn't want people changing the backdrop, then
they would check a checkbox under the world options, such as "Disallow
custom user backdrops." It would work similar to the new light command
in 3.1. There could be a "backdrop radius" like the "light radius." It
would only change the world's backdrop at a CERTAIN area and only change
it for a CERTAIN distance.

For example, if I teleported to 8832n 4094e in AlphaWorld and someone
was using a new backdrop command to specify a backdrop, the custom
backdrop would only be displayed five coordinates from the edge of the
citizen's property, NOT change the entire world's backdrop for ALL users
in ALL directions/coordinates. What could you use the backdrop feature
for? Say you are making an observatory and wanted a night sky backdrop
with stars. It would add mood and atmosphere to your building if you
used a custom backdrop.

Sure, there are problems that could crop up (like people using obscene
pictures as backdrops) and such, but I don't think we should dismiss M a
r c u s' idea. I think it is a good idea, yet I also think it would be
hard to implement and control. Roland, Hamfon, et al have enough things
on their to do list as it is. Maybe if Activeworlds.com, Inc. had more
programmers this idea might be implemented. But for now, I don't see how
or when it ever would be.

Builderz
Stuff-X - Bot & World Hosting Services
http://www.stuffx.com/aw/

Apr 21, 2001, 2:36am

And like with many products you should be able to choose. If a webdesigner
offered to do a website for a customer and charged $80 to allow a changed
background of the customer's choice or pay a reduced fee of $20 where they
could not choose the background choice, do you think that webdesigner would
ever get that $80 let alone $20?

There are too many people out there willing to provide the same service and
at a more reasonable price. You couldn't compete. So, it boils down to what
is the customer willing to pay for and what can you charge for it? %75 of a
citizenship fee ($15) should be the price in my opinion and I have seen no
objections towards that.

If you want to pay the extra $65 to have that control, have fun and enjoy
filling up AW's pockets. I am not paying them $80 to flick a switch for a
background, $15 yes.

So far I have not seen them address the citizen's wants, and this is proof
they aren't listening.




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Apr 21, 2001, 2:48am

Your weather bot changed the background for everyone at one time. That is
not what I am proposing, though you are in the ballpark.

Please tell me why this can not be done. Set it up so people click on a
button to download a citizen's background.

I see you guys setting up a 3d environment so that we can rotate, move,
create, animate, "texturize", warp, teleport, flush, lol, etc... well you
get my point, but you can't allow us to change a 2 dimensional background?

Am I to believe we are at the edge of Active World's technology where
someone can not click a button (located at the citizen's area) and have a
background download (like pictures download) then? This would allow people
to change the background and it wouldn't interfere with other people's
areas.

Just like I have to wait for someone's objects to load, and pictures to
load, I don't see why we can't also wait for a background to load if we
want.

Of course the wish is to have it automatic (like have a bump command to
download it at the entrance of one's place), but if that in the eyes of a AW
technician would not be good, then I ask to put a button option so we can
allow our visitors to download it manually at their choice. If they don't
choose to download it, then they would see the background as the default AW
has.

AW can change whatever background they wanted to whenever they wanted to and
citizens would still have the option to keep it the way they want. It seems
like a win win situation and I don't see how it could not be done
considering everything else AW can offer.


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Apr 21, 2001, 2:54am

I did post in the wishlist earlier this month about it. I actually was
responding to a bot question and the group sort of went on this tangent,
hehe.

Anyways, You are recognizing exactly what I was thinking. Yes, allow it in
a limited area. I like the additional suggestions you made regarding
lighting.

As for porn, they will have to disallow the "create picture" action before
they rid that stuff.

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Apr 21, 2001, 3:05am

I don't know you and I don't know what you personally use to appreciate the
web, business, products, etc..

I will only tell you what I see. I do webdesigning and I know people who
look at my work and say "I like it Marcus, but the background should be this
color".

Am I to say, "Ok, that will be $80, let me change it"?

It's true I don't know AW's inner workings. If I did, I wouldn't be here
posting messages. I would be applying for a job so I could make the changes
and allow people to do this because I know they should have that option.

Are you telling me AW can create a 3d environment where we are rotate
objects, move, etc.. but we can't change one background?

I don't think it will tax them to allow it. It might even enhance our
builds making it better for AW. That means more people stay, and AW can try
to sell worlds to them.

Bottom line, $80 to flick a switch to allow change of background is way too
much. I propose %75 of the citizenship fee ($15) and so far I have seen no
objections from anyone regarding this price, even AW when they responded in
email and in here has not yet commented on the price issue.

Until further notice, this will lead me personally yo believe they are
snowballing us and thinking we will go buy a bigger package just so we can
use 1 single feature they aren't allowing us at a reduced fee. I am not
buying anything more from Active Worlds until they can show me personally
that they give a damn towards the citizen. Up to this point when I emailed
and I tried to discuss issues they have turned their head where other
services have listened and responded. That is why I am here, because it
appears they only listen to numbers and big wigs with the venture capital.

I have paid already for the service and I should be allowed to change the
background just like everyone else who are citizens. Until then, they won't
see another red cent.


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Apr 21, 2001, 3:07am

You posted the initial message, not me. I merely responded saying if you
can't allow them to change backgrounds without a bot, then don't expect them
to allow you change it with one.

Anything more, blame it on the devil }:-)


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Apr 21, 2001, 3:14am

Sorry, I thought I was reading Holistic1's response. He made the initial
post.

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Apr 21, 2001, 3:34am

GRRRR .... same old point every damned time.

AW does not exist in order to service AlphaWorld or the other public
building worlds. What proportion of AW's total $1.6 Million income last year
do you think came from $20 annual citizen ships of people who build only in
these worlds? If AW panders to the inane requests of the "customers" that
provide only a minority revenue stream, then they are being diverted from
the real driving forces of their business ... the facilities available to
and developed for those that are prepared to pay. What incentive would there
be for people to move to having their own private worlds if they are given
what they wanted in the public areas?

Also, where's the competitive advantage that AW would gain over anyone else
by pandering to the whims of citizens? Nowhere! There is no ..... Pah! Tell
you what, I'm just going to ignore the thread altogether.




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Apr 21, 2001, 4:08am

Well,in case you are reading this, without us they wouldn't have worlds
sold. Without us, there wouldn't be people who would buy a world. And that
goes with anything else they choose to offer to sell.

If they feel turning off citizens is the way to sell something and make
money, they can have their true space and worlds all to themself. I am
offering a middle ground where those who do not and WILL NOT pay for a world
just to flick on a switch to change backgrounds can still pay AW something
to have this feature.

I am not going to pay $80 for a world to find out I need to pay another
extra $69.95 for true space to create objects.

I paid 20 for a citizenship and now find out they aren't allowing a change
of background. What would I find out is not offered if I go buy a world?
Well, for one thing, you can only have like 10 people unless you pay more to
visit your place at onetime.

In AW I could have 100 people for only $20.

There is no way, no how, nada that I am going to milk AW's pockets with
money until they provide me a service I am asking for. Charge me 75% of a
citizenship just to flick a switch so I change a background.

Every 6 citizens that want this will give them the cost of a world. If 100
are in AW at one time, that makes ~17 worlds AW could have sold. It's up to
them to try. Is the cost of allowing it going to hurt them? I don't see how
a 3d program such as AW could require that much more extensive research to
allow. It is economical, it is affordable, it is doable, why not do it?

People will not pay the total cost of a world just to change the background,
and that is one customer who will eventually walk away when their
citizenship runs out.





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Apr 21, 2001, 6:13am

when does it run out so we can look forward to loosing you?

Moria



> People will not pay the total cost of a world just to change the
background,
> and that is one customer who will eventually walk away when their
> citizenship runs out.
>

Apr 21, 2001, 7:03am

Making an object that could change the backgrond or an activate command in
alphaworld could cause massive reprocussions...people could ruin aplha world
by littering it with objects that changed the background to pornographic or
unacceptable pictures...or they could put like 10 fdifferent objects with 10
different background near someones work so cause massive downloads for
anyone visiting....

its a nice idea...but it wont happen...becuase it could be abused too
much...

and quit withthe pointless web designer crap. Being a Web Design and being
in alpha world are completely defferent...

-Gamer


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Apr 21, 2001, 7:17am

LOL, some people take things they don't like at such a personal level.

If you paid at least $80 for a world and feel that is a fair price, then it
should be ok for someone to not pay the $80 because feel it isn't.

How else do you suggest someone make a suggestion? Please tell me how you
would make one and I will be more than happy to try that approach. I
already emailed Active Worlds. I messaged Roland. I talked to teachers in
AWSchool. I went to AWGate. I asked Bot programmers about this.

What else can I try without making someone offended, or are you just
offended because I made the choice to suggest something?


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Apr 21, 2001, 7:21am

That isn't what I said. Let me clarify myself.

We can move objects. To have that ability and not be able to change a 2d
background seems odd to me. It appears Active Worlds is deciding not to
allow it.

The objects was just a comparison. It seems a lot harder to be able to
create a program where you can rotate and move objects over laying a 2d
background.

I don't see "massive reprocussions". Please list them so we can address
them.


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Apr 21, 2001, 11:11am

To answer Holistic1 original question, the DJBot can change the url on an
object to play a list of midi files. I believe it would work the same with
ambient sound as well. From my viewpoint all things are possible to a clever
programmer.

To address marcus point of view: I paid the $80+ for my world spent months
building it to the theme I chose and there ain't no way I want someone to
come and change it around to match their preference. This is why my world
is closed to the public. I get tired of hearing the tourist complain about
something they aren't paying for.

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Apr 21, 2001, 11:20am

"To address marcus point of view: I paid the $80+ for my world spent months
building it to the theme I chose and there ain't no way I want someone to
come and change it around to match their preference."

If you paid for a world, your theme should still continue and at no point am
I advocating tourists, citizens, Active Worlds people (pk's, gks', etc...)
to alter the background of YOUR world. If I came to your world and you gave
me space to build, I would not consider changing the background under any
conditions even if you did allow it. My "point of view" addresses worlds
that function like AW where a citizen doesn't own all the rights, but rather
people share. Please read on for more clarification.

"This is why my world is closed to the public. I get tired of hearing the
tourist complain about something they aren't paying for."

I do too. I am a citizen, and by being able to post here you probably
already know I paid my dues for citizenship. Furthermore, I am willing to
pay Activeworlds for the ability to have my own background downloaded when
people come visit my spot if they want. This fee I am proposing should be
%75 of the citizenship fee, $15. I am willing to pay, just not the $80.






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Apr 21, 2001, 12:48pm

You're not paying $80 to "flick a switch for a background", you're getting your own world to build in. Activeworlds requires that the world owner be able to control the world background because otherwise many effects in lots of worlds would be ruined.

If you don't like the world background, complain to the world owner.


-Agent1


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Apr 21, 2001, 12:52pm

The world background is an attribute of the world; if a world owner decides to let you build, you may. If they decide to add your citizen number to the caretaker list, then you can change the world background for the world.

Being able to build and being able to change the background are totally different.

-Agent1


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Apr 21, 2001, 1:02pm

"You're not paying $80 to 'flick a switch for a background'..."

Ok, then where do I change the background so visitors can see my background
without me paying at least $80 or someone else paying at least $80?

"...you're getting your own world to build in"

That is great, but I don't want my "own world to build in" and all the
frills that come with it. I just want one thing, to change the background.
Doing that is not worth $80. I'll pay, but not $80. I propose %75 of the
citizenship to be the fee for this, $15.


"Activeworlds requires that the world owner be able to control the world
background because otherwise many effects in lots of worlds would be
ruined."

Please identify to me exactly how "effects in lots of worlds would be
ruined" in a 3d program like Activeworlds if a download feature were used to
change background for a citizen's spot in AW worlds. This is not addressing
ownership of a world. This is where you pay a citizenship fee and build in
AW worlds and want to change the background. Again, there should be a fee,
but not $80.

"If you don't like the world background, complain to the world owner."

I have, and I am addressing it as well here.

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Apr 21, 2001, 1:03pm

[View Quote] No use to reply to him. Remember the good old days when you played your old LP on a phonograph and the needle stuck in one track?
His rants sound like the same:
news://news.activeworlds.com/3ae18915%241%40server1.Activeworlds.com
news://news.activeworlds.com/3ae123ea%241%40server1.Activeworlds.com
news://news.activeworlds.com/3ae1152b%241%40server1.Activeworlds.com
news://news.activeworlds.com/3ae10e44%40server1.Activeworlds.com
news://news.activeworlds.com/3ae04209%241%40server1.Activeworlds.com
news://news.activeworlds.com/3adfb20a%40server1.Activeworlds.com
news://news.activeworlds.com/3adf4a8e%241%40server1.Activeworlds.com
news://news.activeworlds.com/3adeee77%241%40server1.Activeworlds.com

Andras

Apr 21, 2001, 1:04pm

"The world background is an attribute of the world; if a world owner decides
to let you build, you may."

I am not talking about citizen owned worlds. I am talking about AW worlds
where citizens pay AW to be able to change backgrounds.

"Being able to build and being able to change the background are totally
different."

Yes they are, but they should both be allowed if you are a citizen building
a town or building in AW world.


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Apr 21, 2001, 1:07pm

Yes, but you got to choose which LP's you bought. Activeworlds is choosing
what LP will be played and they are playing it for us 24 hours a day, 7 days
a week, 4 weeks per month, and 12 months per year.

Or were you referring to Active Worlds being stuck on one track? Cause then
I could see where you are coming from.


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Apr 21, 2001, 2:17pm

If you want this feature, you can program it with a bot - why does it need
to be added to our features when we already have an existing mechanism for
citizens to do such a thing if they do so wish to?

The SDK was designed so that if you wanted to do this kind of thng, you
could - and this wouldnt be hard to do with the SDK at all - so program it
up and let me know how it goes, I'll come have a look at it when you are
done =)

Facter.

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Apr 21, 2001, 2:28pm

Please see my comments below:

[View Quote] So you are saying that ANY citizen that brings a custom made bot into
Active Worlds can change AlphaWorld's default backdrop at a certain
location, inside a certain range that other citizens can download and
see? Sure you can make your own bot or use already existing bots to
change a backdrop if you own your own world. What I believe M a r c u s
is saying is that he would like a trigger added to the "activate"
command that can change the backdrop so other citizens can see it in ANY
world when you click on something (such as a sign or button). This is
currently not a feature of the Active Worlds Browser.

> The SDK was designed so that if you wanted to do this kind of thng, you
> could - and this wouldnt be hard to do with the SDK at all - so program it
> up and let me know how it goes, I'll come have a look at it when you are
> done =)

I think you are misinterpreting what M a r c u s is saying. Maybe you
should re-read some of his posts.

Builderz
Stuff-X - Bot & World Hosting Services
http://www.stuffx.com/aw/

Apr 21, 2001, 2:31pm

That is pretty much what I am proposing. So long as a citizen who has paid
$20 (plus some possible extra charge for this feature)could change the
background and not have to buy a whole world.


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Apr 21, 2001, 2:34pm

I think you have to own a world in order to do what you are saying. I am
suggesting AW offer a way citizens who do not want to pay for a whole world
can pay a reduced fee (from the $80 for the minimum world)to allow this to
happen.

If it has to be with a bot, then I'll learn how to do it with a bot. If AW
can set it up without needing a bot, then that may be more preferrable to
those who don't want to learn it with a bot. Doesn't matter to me
personally.


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Apr 21, 2001, 2:47pm

To be quite honest...this string is pontless....and ill save you quoting
your "if you dont like it, get your own newsgroup" speech M a r c u s...so
I'm going to ignore this string...some of your weak compasrisons and
unreseached statements are bording on just plain annoying...don't even
bother to reply this post....I wont read it...I'm sure others agree...

-Gamer



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