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Aug 16, 2003, 6:17pm

sdk.QuickStartGlobal = True
sdk.aw_init AW_BUILD
Dim rc As Long
rc = sdk.QuickStart(342836, "PASSWORD REMOVED (-:", "Duobot", "Duobot",
"jediwrld", 0, 0, 0, 0, 0)
If rc Then MsgBox rc
peoplepos = 0

help, lol

BTW, thanks for sdkocx6 richard

Aug 16, 2003, 6:28pm

Feck knows.... (Btw, dont use SdkOcx6!!!)...

dim rc as long
rc = sdk.aw_init(AW_BUILD)
if (rc) then
MsgBox "Error Code on Init: " & rc
end if

[View Quote]

Aug 16, 2003, 6:29pm

What am I supposed to use then? heh heh heh
umm... thanks? lol
[View Quote]

Aug 16, 2003, 7:13pm

AwSdkDll2 - www.grimmsoft.com

Then use the RC number given to find the cause of the error on
www.activeworlds.com/sdk/reason.htm

- Mark

[View Quote]

Aug 16, 2003, 8:39pm

Your bot seems to be written in some lame programming language that isn't a
programming language at all. Perhaps you should, write it in a real one?

-Joe

[View Quote]

Aug 16, 2003, 8:54pm

Yeah... that too... but you gotta start somewhere (Just not VB... I can
honestly say once you know of arrays, loops and basic handling... get the
hell outta VB... don't go into API and such.. its a waste of time, C++ is
100% directly.. no screwing about. :)

- Mark

[View Quote]

Aug 16, 2003, 9:07pm

In article <3f3eb62a at server1.Activeworlds.com>, strike at Rapiercom.freeserve.co.uk says...
> Yeah... that too... but you gotta start somewhere (Just not VB... I can
> honestly say once you know of arrays, loops and basic handling... get the
> hell outta VB... don't go into API and such.. its a waste of time, C++ is
> 100% directly.. no screwing about. :)
>
> - Mark
>
[View Quote] Don't blame the weapon, blame the murderer. VB is a great tool for devoloping countless
solutions, not to mention that it can keep many young fellows with a null CV and zero
understanding of the job market out of the unemployment line. Keep your eyes on the ball.

../B

Aug 17, 2003, 1:21am

I don't see many openings for "Ultra-l33t VB pr0ramma for t0p seakrit
project!", the openings I see are "Talented C/C++ programmer needed for high
paying position.".

-Joe

[View Quote]

Aug 17, 2003, 3:59am

In article <3f3ef4ce$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com>, joeman at bootdown.com says...
> I don't see many openings for "Ultra-l33t VB pr0ramma for t0p seakrit
> project!", the openings I see are "Talented C/C++ programmer needed for high
> paying position.".
>
> -Joe
>

Then you are probably looking in the wrong places assuming that you even bothered looking
in the first place, of course the syntax is slightly different for job openings than the
one you used :)

My point is, learn all you can and don't underestimate corporate standards like VB out of
superiority syndrome or whatever other mystical reasons. Things are hard and they are
going to get harder; no one likes one trick ponies. If you know C++, learn VB and Delphi;
if you know windows, learn unix. Btw from my experience, the "for high paying position"
part is wishful thinking for any programmer with a null or less than two pages CV who
knows only one language (even if that is assembly).

../B

Aug 17, 2003, 4:24am

[View Quote] Ahh, but C++ is more portable and would thus have more opportunities
than any VB programmer. PASCAL might also be considered portable
(delphi wouldn't -- since it's the VB of the PASCAL language, and will
only be available wherever Borland develops it.).

Sure, it doesn't hurt to learn more languages. But some are better
designed for tasks then others. VB should really only be used for
client software. While C++ can be used for both... from a "overall"
standpoint C++ is the better choice of the two if you're going to learn
one or the other.

Wait... here comes the VB brigade. It is present now, a disturbance I feel.

--
--Bowen--

No of SETI units returned: 69
Processing time: 57 days, 10 hours.
(Total hours: 1378)
www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu

Aug 17, 2003, 4:38am

Ok, so... I know every windows version (save windows 1.0), unix, Linux,
Solaris, OS X.... I know VB, and C/C++, enough assembly to get me through
some tight spots, PHP, XBox API... and a lot more... So, now what do I
learn? It seems I've already met and exceeded your "quota" to diss on VB.
Also, I've read plenty of job listings.

So, I say I'm fully qualified to say that VB is a horrible programming
language. Not only do you need runtime DLLs to run the most basic code, but
its really not programming at all, only scripting. You can do a lot more
with C, its more portable, and it also does require 9 million runtime dlls
that bloat up your system.

Sure, it might be *easy*, but sometimes the easy way, isn't the best way to
do things. Compare a basic C application with a VB one, both do the exact
same thing. You'll find that VB wastes like, 400 - 900KB on god knows what.
I will admit, I've used VB for a few simple programs when I don't want to
mess with Winsock and windows in C, but all of those programs sucked. All I
can say is: been there, done that, hated it.

Seriously... learn C for Christ's sake.

-Joe

[View Quote]

Aug 17, 2003, 5:48am

In article <3f3f22de$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com>, joeman at bootdown.com says...
> Ok, so... I know every windows version (save windows 1.0), unix, Linux,
> Solaris, OS X.... I know VB, and C/C++, enough assembly to get me through
> some tight spots, PHP, XBox API... and a lot more... So, now what do I
> learn? It seems I've already met and exceeded your "quota" to diss on VB.
> Also, I've read plenty of job listings.
>
> So, I say I'm fully qualified to say that VB is a horrible programming
> language. Not only do you need runtime DLLs to run the most basic code, but
> its really not programming at all, only scripting. You can do a lot more
> with C, its more portable, and it also does require 9 million runtime dlls
> that bloat up your system.
>
> Sure, it might be *easy*, but sometimes the easy way, isn't the best way to
> do things. Compare a basic C application with a VB one, both do the exact
> same thing. You'll find that VB wastes like, 400 - 900KB on god knows what.
> I will admit, I've used VB for a few simple programs when I don't want to
> mess with Winsock and windows in C, but all of those programs sucked. All I
> can say is: been there, done that, hated it.
>
> Seriously... learn C for Christ's sake.
>
> -Joe
>

To me, no one is qualified to say any language is a "horrible programming language",
especially when we are talking about the most used problem solving language in corporate
environments used by millions of programmers but this is the internet, anyone says
whatever they want :)

Nobody cares in the real world (!=bots) for the "400 - 900KB" wasted (which is a false
assertion) or the "9 million runtime dlls that bloat up your system" (ditto). They want
the job done, as fast as possible and have a solution that can be easily supported and
developed; not have 3,000 lines of code just for sending an app to the systray (or your
winsock example) just because it *might* execute 100ms faster. I have seen a lot of bad C
code as well as a lot of bad VB code and a lot of bad Java code and a lot of bad ------
(insert lang name here) code; all languages are great just as all OS are great, it's how
you use them that makes the difference.

If you have the knowledge you mentioned, that's good for you; you are not a one trick
pony which was the point in my original post. Anyway this has gone enough off topic so I
rest my case here; not sure why you assume I don't know C though :)

../B

Aug 17, 2003, 8:00am

Well,
Perhaps the better descriptor would be "Horrible programming language -
for me", after all each to their own tallents, abilities and what they
prefer to use... Anyway, Visual Basic is good in the fact thats its a Rapid
Development Platform... this is of course until you try to intergrate some
API... then you end up with 30 modules / classes full of API and
basic-classes code just for WritePrivateProfileString API...

The way I look at it, C++ cuts down on the dependancies... but creating its
dialogs can be hellish at points, even with MFC, in *most* cases the C++
code is also more portable to other systems. The other benefits I can see
are things like inline asm code, dynamic memory allocation (new / delete are
the most brilliant things for 3 / 6 character words!). Granted some things
may generally be harder (char arrays etc) with faster-than-light speed and
handling... and you have CString or you own classes if you need them, but
theyre slower... but its left to the programmer to decide, and its quite
viable to dump one to the other half way down a procedure just to make life
easier for yourself and dump a little speed.

Next, the limitations... I, personally find the syntax of the VB language
hard to cope with and rediculously hard to track, as you said, C++ freaks if
you miss a ; out but its nothing that can't be solved by reading though 2 or
3 lines of code. I just like the { } syntax.... I also like how you can
create different levels of variables encased in { }'s in different sections
of the procedures....

Course... the best bit of C++ over VB is OOP, the class based structure and
derivision etc of C++ kicks the preverbial shite out of anything VB can
offer like that... I remember using Brants classes for avatars... and it
ended up taking like half a second to loop though the avatars and check
several variables, mainly because you had to call bloody member functions to
get and set variables! Now on a bot that handles typically 50 to 100 events
a second this is... bad... Then, I created the whole project in C++, and
whooosh, direct access to all the variables, and public, private and
protected content!

Not to mention no variants! (Unless you use COleVariant classes for DAO DB
as Im having to...) which speeds things up a rediculous level... and the
concept of overloading is absolutly brilliant... Take my Zeus bot for
example... the console message to user function, its overloaded with....

ConsoleMessage(CString szMessage, int red, int green, int blue, bool bold,
bool italics);
ConsoleMessage(CConsoleMessage *pConsoleMsg);
ConsoleMessage(CAwMessageDump *pMessageDump);

Now thats infinatly better than having 3 different function names for each
of them... they may need different bodies but its still a brilliant way of
handling things...

Admittedly... I still use VB at some points..;
Even though I usually hate using it (Seem to put ; after every line....);
Which gets realllly reallly reallly annoying;

But, like I said.. when you basically want to take something like a text box
and do some replacements at once, you can't beat VB for dev time, 10
seconds, literally... best because of its form based development... Of
course once you start dumping into things like API, and copying and pasting
a exoillion lines of API code into modules... (Unless you were l33t and made
a VB add in *G*) it gets damned annoying! Personally I don't see why you
have to have a hundred lines of const int WM_BLAH = &3B2C...

A B at stard with C++ is the things like strtok that take a lot of working out,
and really... its best to dump the loop to a class and read pointers to char
arrays from there... VB rules on strtok vs split...

Anyway, thats what I wanted to say.. I just find C++ more of an actual
programming language... and less of just writing stuff out in plain english,
lets face it.. natural language IS slower... GUI vs DOS... DOS wins hands
down for most things (excluding graphics design etc, hehe)...

- Mark

[View Quote] > To me, no one is qualified to say any language is a "horrible programming
language",
> especially when we are talking about the most used problem solving
language in corporate
> environments used by millions of programmers but this is the internet,
anyone says
> whatever they want :)
>
> Nobody cares in the real world (!=bots) for the "400 - 900KB" wasted
(which is a false
> assertion) or the "9 million runtime dlls that bloat up your system"
(ditto). They want
> the job done, as fast as possible and have a solution that can be easily
supported and
> developed; not have 3,000 lines of code just for sending an app to the
systray (or your
> winsock example) just because it *might* execute 100ms faster. I have seen
a lot of bad C
> code as well as a lot of bad VB code and a lot of bad Java code and a lot
of bad ------
> (insert lang name here) code; all languages are great just as all OS are
great, it's how
> you use them that makes the difference.
>
> If you have the knowledge you mentioned, that's good for you; you are not
a one trick
> pony which was the point in my original post. Anyway this has gone enough
off topic so I
> rest my case here; not sure why you assume I don't know C though :)
>
> ./B

Aug 17, 2003, 10:08am

Ah, thanks
[View Quote]

Aug 17, 2003, 10:09am

I'm terrible at making windows programs in C++ though, rofl.
[View Quote]

Aug 17, 2003, 10:11am

I agree. I myself use red hat and windows, and in terms of programming I use
C++, C, Java, and VB (more if I knew more).
[View Quote]

Aug 17, 2003, 10:13am

I know like 2 things in C. One of them is printf, and the other is scanf
rofl.
I would use C++ if I was good with the windows API in it (-:. I'm great with
swing in java, too bad there isn't an sdk for that...
[View Quote]

Aug 17, 2003, 10:14am

Exactly why I'm using VB... its just easier lol
[View Quote]

Aug 17, 2003, 10:21am

"Course... the best bit of C++ over VB is OOP, the class based structure and
derivision etc of C++ kicks the preverbial shite out of anything VB can
offer like that... I remember using Brants classes for avatars... and it
ended up taking like half a second to loop though the avatars and check
several variables, mainly because you had to call bloody member functions to
get and set variables! Now on a bot that handles typically 50 to 100 events
a second this is... bad... Then, I created the whole project in C++, and
whooosh, direct access to all the variables, and public, private and
protected content!"

yeah, that's why I want to use C++. But I don't get how your supposed to use
the windows API with it... and I don't really remember the windows API
anyway, roflmao.

"Not to mention no variants! (Unless you use COleVariant classes for DAO DB
as Im having to...) which speeds things up a rediculous level... and the
concept of overloading is absolutly brilliant... Take my Zeus bot for
example... the console message to user function, its overloaded with....

ConsoleMessage(CString szMessage, int red, int green, int blue, bool bold,
bool italics);
ConsoleMessage(CConsoleMessage *pConsoleMsg);
ConsoleMessage(CAwMessageDump *pMessageDump);

Now thats infinatly better than having 3 different function names for each
of them... they may need different bodies but its still a brilliant way of
handling things..."

Another reason I want to use C++... but I'm terrible at windows API, not to
mention C++ in general rofl.

"But, like I said.. when you basically want to take something like a text
box
and do some replacements at once, you can't beat VB for dev time, 10
seconds, literally... best because of its form based development... Of
course once you start dumping into things like API, and copying and pasting
a exoillion lines of API code into modules... (Unless you were l33t and made
a VB add in *G*) it gets damned annoying! Personally I don't see why you
have to have a hundred lines of const int WM_BLAH = &3B2C..."

Which is why I was using VB, I want a windows GUI but I suck at windows API
(and don't know how to combine it with the AW SDK anyway).

"Anyway, thats what I wanted to say.. I just find C++ more of an actual
programming language... and less of just writing stuff out in plain english,
lets face it.. natural language IS slower... GUI vs DOS... DOS wins hands
down for most things (excluding graphics design etc, hehe)..."

Yup. I want my windows API though, lol.

Aug 17, 2003, 10:25am

Then use... mfc....

- Mark

[View Quote]

Aug 17, 2003, 10:35am

I suck with MFC too, rofl
[View Quote]

Aug 17, 2003, 10:41am

What do you include to get CString? heh heh heh
[View Quote]

Aug 17, 2003, 10:50am

Well in that case you need to actually go and learn it... its simple..

- Mark

[View Quote]

Aug 17, 2003, 10:51am

StdAfx - precompiled header

- Mark

[View Quote]

Aug 17, 2003, 10:58am

thanks
[View Quote]

Aug 17, 2003, 12:49pm

Let me give all of the newbs to programming a piece of advice from my own
experience...

Way yonder back, I wanted to be a programmer. I was shopping one day, and
found a book in a bookshop called "Using Visual Basic" it was about £6.99 so
I bought it...

I took it home... fired up Visual Basic.. and then set to work! I wondered
why most the stuff it told me to do didnt actually exist in my version of
the VB IDE... and why I had to load it up though MS Word each time, It didnt
say anything about that in the book... oh dear... yep you guessed it, I
thought VBA was full VB... what a prat I was...

Anyway, VB went out the window for a few weeks... then, a friend gave me a
VB package, the one above the training edition... and I realised... wow!
Timer control, this must be the real deal! Indeed it was... I managed
form.print "Hello World" and was amazed with myself and went running off
bragging about how good I was at VB... sad sad me...

I spent about 10 hours a day coding... lol, Managed to make 3 calculators
erm... all using inputboxes and just had basic stuff... litterally, utter
crap...

You only learn how crap you are at something when your either humble...
which lets face it no new programmer is... or you have a more experienced
programmer take the piss... in my case it was the latter... and Robbie
(Gamer at the time) absolutly slammed me when I couldent even impliment a
simple function!

I copied and pasted and thought I was soooo l33t not understanding the first
bloody thing about what the hell I was doing with all this code, error after
error.... It was about this time Baron was close to having a mental
breakdown from me telegraming him every... 30 seconds or so... (no...
literally) and at this time he gave me this really brilliant idea.... why
not... get a book!? The idea seemed so enlightening at the time, so I went
off down to PC world and I got a book called 'Visual Basic Step By Step'
from the MS press....

I spent the next 3 week or so doing NOTHING but learning things from that
book, it actually explained what functions, subs etc are, what control
attributes and GUIs are... I thought I was so good before but I knew NOTHING
that this book was teaching me...

One thing I must stress to every new programmer, programming takes utter
dedication, if you can not be bothered with it, turn back now...

Anyway, I kept learning and learning, bots were the key to me learning VB, I
made everything with it, database bots, drawing bots, the works, being
reassured by friends that I could make it and always having the fallback of
chuckling at the person who taught me almost everything else I know about it
(Baron) when he took out all of AWGZ with a PK bot on eject by accident...

Now I know I was bad... but some people out there are worse... telegrams
such as 'how do I put text in a text box'... a person can explain to you how
to put text in a text box... but thats all, but if you LEARN how about
control attributes and properties, you will be able to handle everything!
Background colours, fonts etc...

But you have to keep commiting yourself to it.. never give up and seek help
from people when you need it, but don't be a idiot and try and get *all* the
solutions from other people, its what I tried doing with Baron.. it dosent
work... you end up getting more and more confused....

But keep at it, and remember you have to LEARN... get books, read
websites... its all good...

Eventually I got to the point (World Core 5) where VB could no longer handle
what I needed to do with it... and that was the end of VB for me... now Ive
started all over again (Although this time I promised myself I wouldent
hassle anyone!)... And hey, look where its got me. Im lead programmer for an
AW distributor :)

- Mark

Aug 17, 2003, 2:59pm

[View Quote] Bad C code will not compile. There may be practices you don't agree
with that others do (like using a break to get out of a loop), but, it's
not bad code. Unlike VB, you can't really make a horrible mistakes and
get the same result.

--
--Bowen--

No of SETI units returned: 69
Processing time: 57 days, 10 hours.
(Total hours: 1378)
www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu

Aug 17, 2003, 3:04pm

[View Quote] Cstring? You mean the microsoft string handeler? There is an ANSI C++
string class you know. (#include <cstring> - or was it just <string>?)

--
--Bowen--

No of SETI units returned: 69
Processing time: 57 days, 10 hours.
(Total hours: 1378)
www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu

Aug 17, 2003, 5:37pm

The problem isthat I'm not recieving any error codes... and I'm using
awsdk2.dll
[View Quote]

Aug 17, 2003, 6:24pm

if RC is null... everything is OK and your doing something else wrong...

- Mark

[View Quote]

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