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Jun 25, 2006, 6:08pm

Hi sweets:)

I realize that you are upset about the X rated worlds not being allowed to
participate in the Cys.

I have a couple of questions in that regard for you, that I will hopefully
be enlightened as to how it would help to include those worlds.

1. If an x rated world were nominated, how would you keep the under aged
citizens from visiting your world?

2. If an x rated world was nominated, how could the votes be just, if under
aged citizens were not allowed to see the world to make their voting
choices?

3. What evidence could you produce that showed that no under aged citizens
had attempted to visit an x rated world?

4. Have you or are you willing to do some statistics with signed petitions
to show the concern from all x rated world owners?

5. Do you have any suggestions to what could be done to protect anyone
involved in the Cys from a possible lawsuit from an angry parent?

6. Do you have a lawyer that is willing to put their signature on a legal
document that would protect anyone involved in the Cys and AWI?

These are questions that could help in the future plan of the Cys possibly
and I am only posting them to see if you have any suggestions.

Jun 25, 2006, 6:15pm

Honestly, if an X rated world wants to participate let em. They'll miss
out on votes, but that's their problem no?

Jun 25, 2006, 8:08pm

2 sweets threads.
She's like the new Eep ;P

Jun 25, 2006, 9:56pm

[View Quote] What evidence can you produce that they don't visit them anyway? There's a
list of them in the Worlds tab.

Maki Kato
Support AW

Jun 25, 2006, 10:45pm

Hey Maki:)

That isn't the point here now is it?:)
If they visit them anyways, then the Cys are not responsible in any way are
they?
That question has nothing to do with my intent. So I won't even attempt to
answer it.

[View Quote]

Jun 25, 2006, 11:19pm

Just saying, if you mark the nominees as adult a person is just as likely to
visit it as if they see it marked adult on the world list.

Maki Kato
Support AW
[View Quote]

Jun 25, 2006, 11:28pm

You might not have asked me, but I'll answer anyways....

[View Quote] Age is a client problem, not a server problem....Here's what I mean:

You can't control who visits your world with regards to age. From the
stand point of the server, there's no way to tell what age a user is.
The gor worlds that ask a user to state an age on entry are almost
laughable. "Umm, I'm 90 years old... yea."

It's up to the person(s) using the browser (the "client", in our
analogy) to determine their age and the appropriateness of content.

In other words, it's up to the parents to use the rating lock feature
and to monitor their children's on-line activity.

To put it bluntly, there's damn near nothing you can do about it.....

>
> 2. If an x rated world was nominated, how could the votes be just, if under
> aged citizens were not allowed to see the world to make their voting
> choices?

As Baro suggested, that's their problem isn't it?

Who are you to discriminate? Let the "CommunitY" decide, isn't that how
the awards are supposed to work anyways?

If an X-rated world is nominated and they loose by a landslide, then I'd
say the "CommunitY" has spoken....

>
> 3. What evidence could you produce that showed that no under aged citizens
> had attempted to visit an x rated world?
Absolutely none. But what evidence can any X-rated world show that
under-aged citizens don't visit every day?

That's a ridiculous question to ask, as you very well know that no
evidence can be produced either way.

>
> 4. Have you or are you willing to do some statistics with signed petitions
> to show the concern from all x rated world owners?
No, I haven't.. and I'm not willing to. :-P
>
> 5. Do you have any suggestions to what could be done to protect anyone
> involved in the Cys from a possible lawsuit from an angry parent?
Tell them it's not your fault, and that you can't control their kid.

If you want to be nasty, you could tell them it's their fault for not
supervising their kid. (See above.)

Seriously though.... You could try a disclaimer. What a novel idea, 'eh?

"The CY awards are not responsible for the content of any nominated
world....blah blah blah.....By visiting the CYAwards world, nominating a
world, voting in the CY Awards, visiting the CY Awards website, you
agree to indemnify and hold harmless AWI, the CY Awards, and the
individual members of the CY Awards staff..... blah blah blah"

Or....you could try a "Terms of Service/Usage" agreement, with language
similar to that above.

That wasn't so hard, was it?

>
> 6. Do you have a lawyer that is willing to put their signature on a legal
> document that would protect anyone involved in the Cys and AWI?

I doubt that any lawyer would care enough.... Try the ACLU though, they
seem to like pointless lawsuits these days.


Now, just to set the record straight... I'm not a big advocate of
x-rated worlds in the CY Awards, or X rated worlds in general. I think
some of them are pretty nasty, to be quite honest... However, those
questions were just so ridiculous and obvious that they were just
begging a smart-ass reply.

Better grab some steaks 'yall, we're going to have a nice fire to cook
over! :-P

-J

Jun 25, 2006, 11:36pm

Hehehe...I don't think that a fire is necessary:)
It isn't up to me what the Cys do anymore other than my interest of any AW
citizen.
And my questions weren't stupid if they generate ideas to solve problems:)
The disclaimer idea was a good one, and one that could be followed up on if
certain parties are interested.
Thanks JerMe, you may have made a great contribution to this entire fiasco:)

[View Quote]

Jun 25, 2006, 11:50pm

thank you JerMe....well said...

How can they justify an 8 year old going to see a build in pg13...or a 13
year old going to see an R (which was permitted entry) in order to vote on
the builds....they cannot....why make such a taboo out of just X...

I do think the times of the old one room schoolhouse is over. Parents have
the ability to set the rating with password. Of course the R X and even pg13
will have less votes...less population that is 'all'....

Therefore the awards shows, in real life, although R is acceptable, the
voting is done by adults, the show is shown at an adult time.

the only way around this is to get away from the little red schoolhouse
routine....best G build....best PG build...best PG13 build...best R...and
yes best X.....

then if only 5 builds of X...and only few people come in...judging is still
fairer...more votes in that 'category' is the winner....its not that
complicated.

as it stands now...you CANNOT say it is more legal to allow R rating....but
not X...that just does not make any sense at all....let the parents police
their own kids and let us adults stand proud over the work we did here at
AW, and deserve just as much credit for as any other world...whatever the
rating.....

sweets

Jun 25, 2006, 11:59pm

I do not cause trouble about this because I expect or even want to win....I
cause trouble about this because of the increased stigma this causes against
our X worlds, some we worked damned hard on, but need artistic freedom.

Things like this make us seem worse than we are....Taboo....dirty....not
worthy of mention or award....and this is so wrong....

we work hard....we dont expect rewards all the time but we do want people to
see our art for what it is....Adult...pure....

We put X on it for freedom....freedom of expression....freedom of
speech....but with a warning that it is Adult, and those who would be
insulted or whatever would knnow by that to stay away....but it is now as if
X = XXX which we know AW would not allow anyway.

I just want people to be fair about this...R may have good builds, it is
also adult....since there is not a clear line between R and X, many of us
chose X to be sure ....not to make people think we were scum....

Things like this just add fuel to the fire...causing a further stigma
against X worlds or people.....

let the witchhunt begin

sweets

Jun 26, 2006, 12:10am

sweets, you go out of your way to irk people and it does you no service.
*sighs and walks away*

Jun 26, 2006, 12:14am

I say what needs saying.....one way or the other

sweets

Jun 26, 2006, 12:17am

Besides the point I'm going to make - perhaps certain invidvidual aspects of
X rated worlds could be submitted for judgeing, but anyways, I bring myself
to the subject of this post. First of all, we need to ask ourselves if the
personal attacks are necessary
[View Quote]

Jun 26, 2006, 12:23am

Second - the issue of X rated worlds should be "If everyone cannot see it or
vote for it, it shouldn't be nominated", I think thats plenty simple to
understand, therefore statistics, lawyers, legal documents?? - that should
be neither here nor there. Third - we all have our opinions, we need not let
them get the best of us.

- YP

[View Quote]

Jun 26, 2006, 1:50am

That's fair enough, but the "if everyone can't see it" argument doesn't
seem to apply to pg-13 worlds no? How come one uninforceable and
generally ridiculous age limit is being picked as the cut off and not
others?

Jun 26, 2006, 2:20am

but but sweets, if it does you no service, then... well durn it... find
another way. Just making people mad just isn't the simple be all answer. I
mean, I do hear you, and in some ways I agree with you, but then there are
other ways I very much do not. I just get irked by reading the same post
over and over again over the months, reworded, but basically the same. I
really do want your point made, I just wish we could define it in such a way
as we could all agree on it. Fact is though, if you rate your world X, you
must expect that some people will view it XXX, and others will view it ADULT
only, and others will definetly view it as children and teens NOT admitted.
Period. If X worlds are allowed in the Cy's, then X worlds will recieve a
proportionately lower number of votes than other worlds, simply from the
fact that fewer people are allowed in.

Here is a simple fact... IF X worlds were suddenly allowed, then X world
owners would bitch and complain that they were not getting enough votes, and
thus they would insist on having their own X rated categories... thus
limiting themselves to a small segment of the population again... but... it
would not be the whole community.

Solution is SIMPLE. DO NOT allow X rated worlds in the Cy's and do what the
adult community in Real life has done and have its OWN awards for the X and
XXX rated worlds(movies etc).... a seperate awards completely. Naturally, I
do not believe you will approve of that either... and well, I doubt there is
enough support in the AW community for it.

So, basically, no matter how much I like ya, SHUT UP please. ;) Thank you!
Frankly, I believe there is absolutely nothing that could be done to make
all parties happy. I wish there were... but the philosophies are very
different.

Personally, I do not support the Oscar's, Emmy's or any other awards show. I
go to my Aunts Oscar BBQ because its a family get together and I get to
wrestle with my cousins.... but I could care less who wins... I know which
movies I liked watching that year and that's all that matters to me.

So, if you want to have a BBQ for the excuse of having an awards show...
I'll be there, as long as I can wrestle, but the awards themselves are not
that important. :)

-Tal

Jun 26, 2006, 4:57am

[View Quote] I agree. I mean, come on guys... all this bickering is just plain goofy
and worn out, from everyone. :P

X - rated material is all over the internet nowadays... heck, if your
computer doesn't have proper spyware protection and you visit the wrong
place, it could just randomly pop up on your screen as an ad! :O

I think you all are quick to forget that the x-rated worlds are a part
of our community as well, and certainly in no small part. Now I'm
underage and I can't really go there if I'm honest, but whats stopping
me from lying about my age? Just because the x-rated worlds have
idealologies that you or me don't agree with, does it mean we should
just exclude them from such an event?

I'd bet slappin a ToS agreement on the registration page would do it
next year if you're really worried. Idealy, If parents don't want their
kids viewing innapropriate material then *they* should be the ones to
take steps to prevent it. If they don't... whoops, their bad.

The Cys will be fine, either way. ;D

-Hyper

Jun 26, 2006, 10:40am

Well said Talisan I agree 100% with you!!!

TrueToMe2
[View Quote]

Jun 26, 2006, 2:56pm

It's truly amazing how a simple giggle about a typo can escalate to a full
blown flame war


shame on you people

Jun 27, 2006, 1:45am

How come 18 years olds can vote, but they can't drink? :O

[View Quote]

Jun 27, 2006, 4:08am

Haha, that's a loaded question.... I have no idea.

There really doesn't seem to be a whole lot of definite logic behind it,
except that they had to pick a number, and 18 was it.

Reminds me of the old... "If a guy is 18, he's old enough to be drafted,
to fight and possibly die for his country, but can't drink...."

-J


[View Quote]

Jun 27, 2006, 9:27am

That is in US
in most europeen country you can do that when you are 18.

Tengel

[View Quote]

Jun 27, 2006, 2:54pm

Yep... here in Canada as well :-)

"Tengel" <tengel at 3d-nordic.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
44a11611 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> That is in US
> in most europeen country you can do that when you are 18.
>
> Tengel
>
[View Quote]

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