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Jul 24, 2004, 12:22am

The idea of reinstating the draft was already shot down, you do realize
that, right?


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Jul 24, 2004, 12:24am

dude...

Welcome to present day... most of Iran could be destroyed without a single
person having to walk more than 20 feet.

- Mark R

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Jul 24, 2004, 12:30am

The Iran/Iraq is one big error to make :D

Poseidon

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Jul 24, 2004, 12:59am

Yes I'm quite well aware of that but it still doesn't make an illegal
invasion ok. There are agreed upon international coalition that The Butchers
Bush and Blair blatantly ignored and now the service men, woman, and the
Iraqi civilian population are paying for with life and limb.

A truly international coalition is what we as a world community have decided
to rely upon as a civilized approach to these dictatorial types. We learned
that from the world wars and I do not recall anyone disbanding the United
Nations accept the Butcher Bush.

His Nazi approach of cause the population the fear EVERYTHING the same way
his mentor Hitler did is what gives him his power. You as American citizens
are the only people in the world who have any power to stop him. I hope that
you do!

Cheers

Hu






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Jul 24, 2004, 1:07am

And you are a fool if you compare Bush to a Nazi dictator, yet ignore the
true "butcher" - But in your UN attack, lets not forget the other countries
that have blatantly walked from UN sessions simply because they disagreed.
Interesting.

Poseidon

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Jul 24, 2004, 1:21am

Furthermore, you tread dangerous water to attack an entire people for
something that roughly half the nation (more by now) completely disagree
with.. that being this war. You also tread on dangerous water in your claim
that this war is completely about money, and oil. I have news for you -
there has been evidence to suggest, and prove that the other handful of
countries that refused to enter this war, did so out of fear of LOSING their
oil rights in Iraw. Also very interesting. I don't disagree that we
shouldn't be in Iraw any longer.. but that honestly doesn't seem to be the
point of this entire argument. What offends me about what *you* are saying,
is that you are doing just what everyone outside of the US, accuses
Americans of doing - and that is simply throwing everyone of one "nation" or
"people" into one bag, one motive, etc, without distinguishing. News, thats
what youre doing right here. As I said, I dont agree with this war
currently... but attack American citizens verbally, and ethically, because
you feel the war is about money.. is dangerous.. Look through your facts
more. As I said, there is evidence that countries wanted to stay OUT of that
war out of fear of loss in oil rights.. So we ignore a "butcher" dictator
because he's paying us. Wicked cool! Your news report is biased, because all
of this is biased currently.

Poseidon

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Jul 24, 2004, 1:22am

^ Doh ;) Darn the Q for being by the W lol... *Iraq..

Poseidon

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Jul 24, 2004, 1:40am

poseidon,

I am aware that a large number of Americans disagree with this war and we
will see if their convictions are true by the way they vote - if indeed they
do. I would suggest however that the attacks are not coming from me but from
you and others in this thread - I will not sink into name-calling and
threats as you have done because I realize that this situation is equally
painful for us all and you don't need to be dealing with the trivialities of
flame-wars with me, perhaps you might decide to control yourself similarly?

Cheers

Hu

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Jul 24, 2004, 1:45am

I wouldnt say Ive flamed, or threatened you. Its against my personal policy.
If I were flaming you, you would have come back to 10+ replys from me to
everything you've written ;)

Poseidon

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Jul 24, 2004, 2:03am

As if France and other European countries didn't have oil driven interests
to go against the war?
The Justice Ministry in Iraq's interim government uncovered documents about
suspect oil deals in Saddam's regime.

There was a list of 271 companies, politicians and organizations that
allegedly benefited from the former Iraqi regime by getting large amounts of
cut-rate oil that would earn kickbacks when sold by oil brokers.

France is one of the countries favored most as the list documents 11 French
recipients of oil allotments, including a businessman with ties to the
French President, a diplomat who served under Chirac when he was prime
minister and a former French ambassador to the United Nations.

You can read about that in an "unbiased" report February 9, 2004 issue of
L'Express. http://www.lexpress.fr




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Jul 24, 2004, 2:08am

Forgive me if I accuse you without cause, I have been noticing that people
in this thread have chosen to be personally insulting and it doesn't help
when we, as a world, are facing such devastating events.

Cheers

Hu

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Jul 24, 2004, 2:13am

Indeed, this is an opportunity for the world community to expose the
corruption of individuals and governments everywhere; in fact we must, if we
are going to survive in a free state on this fragile planet of ours.

Cheers

Hu



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Jul 24, 2004, 2:37am

And I would have to add that he treads on dangerous water by assuming that a
good many of the natural citizens of this country are not as savvy as he is,
though (or because?) his residence is by the grace of a green card. Perhaps
many of us plan to use the bloodless voters ballot rather than some bloody
citizen uprising? Isn't that preferable? If only it could always be that way
everywhere. Hu, what do you want anyway? We don't need to read Active Worlds
news groups to have our eyes opened to anything besides what should be
contained here. I am sure that anyone who cares enough has his or her own
plan of action and this "insight" will not sway a single person even a
little bit. The others that don't care are probably laughing their avs off.

Hu, I welcomed you when you acquired a green card to stay in this country,
(why then did/do you want one?), not once but twice, but your foreign-born
status does not mean you can see things we cannot see. You have been here
how many years now? And it is by choice, you have options yet you chose to
stay. I am happy to see many people enjoy visiting or moving to my home, but
don't eat at my table then tell me the milk was curdled. I can see that and
will do something about it without being told. People resent having the
obvious pointed out to them, and then be expected to jump. If it is not
obvious to them, resentment is for unwanted criticism. So it is best leave
it to forums where it is sought out. Because you live so close to me, my
guess is that you and I are basically privy to the same public information.
I, too, am fully able to decide for myself what should and can be changed,
and what part I can and will play in it.

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Jul 24, 2004, 3:59am

Hi carolann,

I am totally grateful to be here and I have stated what my aim is, to get
people to vote Bush out. You are obviously feeling defensive about the
atrocities, illegal elections etc, that the Butcher Bush government have
unceasingly perpetrated since thieving the government of this country.

I will not stay here if Bush steals the government again either but this is
not a personal criticism of any individual Americans though it is an
indictment, a blot even on the so called democratic system that y'all hold
so dear.

If you feel personally attacked by anything I have to say in this thread
that is entirely your business and you are entitled to your beliefs and
feelings. Your discomfort or mine is small though when you consider the
babies, the solders and the civilian population of Iraq. I am sorry for your
pain I mean that truly however my residency in this land is meaningless to
me in the face of the needless devastation it is perpetrating. I am a
citizen of THIS PLANET and the man made borders created to separate,
isolate, and imprison are meaningful only to those who are trying to defend
something that is often NOT their own.

Don't get me started on the rape of the recourses and peoples of our plant
by US Big Business carolann. Most of what you mean when you say "don't eat
at my table then tell me the milk was curdled" has come to your table from
the pillaging of big business in the rest of the world. FACT: America has
just 5% of the world's entire population but it gobbles up a massive 30% of
the worlds recourses. There are many more statistical facts that I will not
bring up here that show that America is more part of the problem than part
of the solution so come down out off the clouds.

I believe that all of the problems can be solved as long as democracy is
maintained and even that with the advent of the Patriot Act is in jeopardy.
I believe that Government in this country is out of control and it is only
with the VOTE that that can be corrected.

Cheers

Hu
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Jul 24, 2004, 6:00am

Hi hu, My responses are intermingled with your questions in the most
friendly fashion.




We've already heard that elections are coming up. This particular one
happens every four years, no more than 2 terms each, for good reason. This
news group is made up of so many who don't live in the US that you shouldn't
even plague them with that tip.






Me? What have I done? I don't even believe in war of any kind. I am not
allowed (nor do I want) to kill my neighbor if I disagree with him, why
should Any government be? ANY. I just think there are ample forums out there
where people want to discuss this stuff. Let's you and I discuss what you've
been building lately. I remember you were quite good at it. You and
Dreamtime had some interesting things with unique concepts going there. I
hope you are still enjoying them. AW should be like a swimming pool or a
hiking trail..a place to unwind and relax until you have to get back into
r/l for another day of.real life.



government have
is



I didn't think it was, and didn't take it that way, but I'd prefer my
editorials on the editorial page.



that y'all hold so dear.




Nope. I didn't take it personally, nor did it sound anti-American except
that you didn't give us credit for enough intelligence to question what goes
on around us. And we shouldn't be discussing it here.







No doubt about it. Or anywhere that people are suffering. I felt that way
before March 2003 though, including about the civilians of Iraq. I've done
something actual about it-pitifully inadequate though it was. But let's
discuss it in private real life or even private AW worlds among interested
others.






No need. As you said, our pain is trivial.



defend



I have to say-I have always thought that was kind of silly myself. But as
you know, those borders were drawn long before you and I came along to set
them straight. Everyone seems to have them. I kind of get the feeling that
making borders is an almost ingrained instinct of man. We do it in all sorts
of ways; cities, countries, shower curtains, dog houses, private towns and
worlds in AW.




Ok hu. The whole world shares in that guilt in varying degrees, though, but
big business can be heartless. (as can individuals).






No hu, we live in Wisconsin. You KNOW where my milk comes from.



up a massive 30% of the worlds recourses. There are many more statistical
facts that I will not bring up here



ok. (then I don't have to respond I really hate being guilty of my own
complaint.)






I've been out of the clouds and in the trenches for years. Don't
underestimate my awareness.




Right. Let's see if it works.






If the Gov't is out of control-the vote means nothing. If the vote can
correct it, the Gov't is not out of control.




Cheers back,

CarolAnn

Jul 24, 2004, 7:34am

Is nothing to do with me I'm afraid... I'm British - so I have Tony Blair to
put up with instead :-p

John

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Jul 24, 2004, 7:52am

even if it was reinstated "all" of us wouldnt be drafted. im 19 and i
wouldnt be in the front of the list either-those sorry ass 18 year olds
would
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Jul 24, 2004, 7:58am

personally im tired of hearing about this shit
the terrorists have won
i cannot travel by plane without a security officer "patting me down" they
have turned what was a fun way to travel into a nightmare
i cannot turn on the tv without hearing the word terrorist or iraq
i cannot even read the AW Ng's without listening to it
agree with me or not-the terrorists still alive dont care about iraq-they
have taken a chunk of our rights as americans-freedom
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Jul 24, 2004, 1:39pm

stuff it buddy....

Your political opinions are in no way related to AW or the AW community.
So, don't even try.

Go find somewhere else to spam your little protest site. (Then, grow a
brain and try to figure out why we're at war in Iraq.)

-J

(That sounded a little Eep-ish didn't it... whoops)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jeremy Booker - Owner / Webmaster
JTech Web Systems
www.JTechWebSystems.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about
itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." -Mathew 5:34




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Jul 24, 2004, 1:41pm

HU said

> I will not stay here if Bush steals the government again either but this
is
> not a personal criticism of any individual Americans though it is an
> indictment, a blot even on the so called democratic system that y'all hold
> so dear.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
>Why don't you pack and move to Iraq, the home of the depraved?
Maybe just back to where you came from. Why are you in our country anyway
if we are evil and vile? Did you come for a job or to go college? I hate
to say it but seems your always somewhere saying somewhere else is
better.
If there.com is so great why you in this NG don't they have one?

To put it simply, only a foolish horse bites the hand of one that feeds
him. Excuse me for being blunt but you are guest in this country. If we
are evil blood thirsty why have you not been kicked out for your views
or beheaded? Try running down Iraq on Iraq NG, I tell you heads
would roll.

Really nothing personal but please give it a break. The people that
will decide who run this country will be the voters not you .

Jul 24, 2004, 2:34pm

Yes Derek,

You are right but American freedoms were never real because of the terrorism
America itself practiced before and since 9/11. Weather you believe me or
not America is the consummate terrorist organization but it tells others
they can't be. America possesses mega weapons of mass destruction yet it
tells others that they cannot have them, double standards don't work. I'm
sorry to say it but if one lives by the sward one must expect to die by the
sward.

BTW Derek you might think you hear a lot about terrorists through the news
media but what you here is ONLY what the western tourists want you to here
to keep you in line and in support of their brand of terror.

Cheers

Hu

But American freedoms were never real because of the terrorism
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Jul 24, 2004, 2:45pm

I would only say one other thing to you personally carolann, I can't vote in
this country (it's stupid because I live here) but I can encourage others to
vote. That is my soul intention, to encourage huge numbers of people in this
nation who do not vote to do so in this election.

In an election year this close to the time of casting votes there is no
place (even the sacred AW NGs) that one aught not to discuss the state of
this nation.

It seems quite a lot of you passively agree with me as this is quite a busy
little string.


Cheers

Hu
www.darksharman.com




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Jul 24, 2004, 2:49pm

Would that the western terrorists Be tourists in reality. LOLOLOL

(sorry bout the spelling error)


Cheers

Hu
www.darksharman.com

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Jul 24, 2004, 4:30pm

[View Quote] Why don't YOU move there? at least you'll feel how the people live there and what the killing means. It is easy to protest from your comfy living room.

>
> Maybe just back to where you came from. Why are you in our country anyway
> if we are evil and vile?

The USA is his/her country too - you have no right to claim it as only yours. I would bet my one year salary that Hu gave more to our country than %95 of the population!

> Did you come for a job or to go college?

Does it really matter?

> I hate
> to say it but seems your always somewhere saying somewhere else is
> better.

As almost everybody on the face of the Earth :)

>
> To put it simply, only a foolish horse bites the hand of one that feeds
> him.

Right now Hu is feeding himself/herself without any help of you.

> Excuse me for being blunt but you are guest in this country.

Bro, you are dead wrong here.
The immigrants to the US bring the knowledge and wisdom what your school system forgot to squeeze into your kids head.
Why is that that the most valuable immigrants for your country are the well educated engineers, doctors, teachers, etc? Did you ever check the requirements for an immigrant visa (sorry, it is called now permanent residency :)?
If you think they shouldn't be in the US then you just don't understand the need of the gray cells of the American economy.
I met several 20+ years old who simply can't subtract two numbers in their head :( I wouldn't talk about the teens who can't read and write even after a college graduation.
I witnessed once when the electricity was out that the cashier burst in tears because she couldn't calculate the change from a $10 bill for a $8.47 bill (she was 19 years old as she told). Don't you think the problem lies somewhere else?
Your rude comments are just a great example how the citizens' brain can be manipulated: immigrants? - that should be bad!!! What if they are terrorists? Hey - they demand things!!! Ouch - some immigrants criticize us!!! Nooo - we should expel ALL immigrants!!!
Immigrants are not GUESTS but a major part of the US economy!
<I'm not talking about the cheap labor Mr Bush just legalized>

> If we
> are evil blood thirsty why have you not been kicked out for your views
> or beheaded? Try running down Iraq on Iraq NG, I tell you heads
> would roll.

Few of us tried - our head is still in place :)

>
> Really nothing personal but please give it a break. The people that
> will decide who run this country will be the voters not you .
>
>

That is the big fear Hu (and several others) have :(

--
Andras
"It's MY computer" (tm Steve Gibson)

Jul 24, 2004, 4:51pm

[View Quote] views
>
> Few of us tried - our head is still in place :)

They probably only bother executing westeners when they can get a good photo
/ video opertunity, and probably didnt want to go to all the trouble of
getting you to set up a webcam.

- MR

Jul 24, 2004, 4:52pm

How refreshing and predictable that the sanity that finally enters this
discussion had to be from someone from neither the (old) UK Empire nor the
(new) US Empire. Thanks Andras for your thoughtful input, personally I had
decided that BRO's comments were beneath my ability to answer as I use my
mind to think of this situation in it's global context.

I wonder how these faulty empires keep emerging when all they seem to be
based on is the class oppression of their own people, greed, and very small
minded double standards that they impose aggressively upon the rest of the
world?

The thing I find the most surprising in this particular empire (The US) is
that it is the desperately poor and uninsured classes that seem to defend
the system that keeps them down. And it is also from the under privileged
classes that they draw there army solders - I guess they aren't much good
for anything but battlefield fodder they sure as hell don't seem to be able
to think independently enough to say. ENOUGH OPPRESSION ALREADY.!!!

Cheers

Hu
www.darksharman.com




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Jul 24, 2004, 7:14pm

If you look at recent polls, Bush and Kerry are nearly tied, so I can
see where you are coming from when you want to try and make every vote
count.

I don't agree with you, however, when you say that soldiers can't think
independently. Have a look at this article:

"U.S. soldiers seek asylum in Canada"
http://victoria.indymedia.org/news/2004/07/27691.php

Builderz

[View Quote] > The thing I find the most surprising in this particular empire (The US) is
> that it is the desperately poor and uninsured classes that seem to defend
> the system that keeps them down. And it is also from the under privileged
> classes that they draw there army solders - I guess they aren't much good
> for anything but battlefield fodder they sure as hell don't seem to be able
> to think independently enough to say. ENOUGH OPPRESSION ALREADY.!!!

Jul 24, 2004, 7:31pm

Thank you builderz, I have added that link to my site here:
http://www.darksharman.com/

Yes you are right, I to have seen solders on the BBC complaining bitterly
about the war and also in the film Fahrenheit 9/11. It is very obvious to me
though that American politicians believe that the poor here are a disposable
population. That was the real point of my statements and as well if I can
incite so form of rebellion amongst the poor so that they can start to band
together and say, ENOUGH!

Cheers

Hu
www.darksharman.com



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Jul 24, 2004, 8:05pm

What I think is strange is that Bush has decalred himself leader of the free
world, yet people get upset if a non US citizen critizice him.

If he has choosen to be my leader, and I do not like him, I should be
allowed to say that, maybe not neccesary in the AW newsgroup though.

I also strongly belive that the current goverment in no cases increase the
freedom anywhere. The control of people has incresed in the name of security
.. I have spoken to many americans, and they do not like the development
either. This problem is of course not only in USA but only growing in EU
where the power is more and more concentrated to the big countries. Small
countries are beeing forced into this imperialism. Small countries can
decide for example 4% in matters that concerns them 100%. Like what do
Germany and France know about raindeers, yet they are supposed to decide
about it.

D
"hu" <miracleweb at hotmail.com> kirjoitti viestiss
news:41029229 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> I would only say one other thing to you personally carolann, I can't vote
in
> this country (it's stupid because I live here) but I can encourage others
to
> vote. That is my soul intention, to encourage huge numbers of people in
this
> nation who do not vote to do so in this election.
>
> In an election year this close to the time of casting votes there is no
> place (even the sacred AW NGs) that one aught not to discuss the state of
> this nation.
>
> It seems quite a lot of you passively agree with me as this is quite a
busy
> little string.
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Hu
> www.darksharman.com
>
>
>
>
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Jul 24, 2004, 8:14pm

I would also be interesting in knowing it, maybe you woul like to share? :)

First it was the massdestructionweapons, when they did not find them, it was
Al-Quaida, when they did not find proof for that,,, what is latest update
for reason for war? ( I mean the official one that white middle class use).

D
"jerme" <JerMe at nc.rr.com> kirjoitti viestiss
news:41028295 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> stuff it buddy....
>
> Your political opinions are in no way related to AW or the AW community.
> So, don't even try.
>
> Go find somewhere else to spam your little protest site. (Then, grow a
> brain and try to figure out why we're at war in Iraq.)
>
> -J
>
> (That sounded a little Eep-ish didn't it... whoops)
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Jeremy Booker - Owner / Webmaster
> JTech Web Systems
> www.JTechWebSystems.com
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> "Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about
> itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." -Mathew 5:34
>
>
>
>
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