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Aug 20, 2003, 9:55am

Any power in place that seeks to judge and condemn a people for immoral
actions by way of mental or physical torture should be routed out, disbanded
and left powerless.

There is a very diverse culture here. Each person comes here with their own
unique personal situation. Noone should be tortured here. Instead,
influencing a good quality of life, moral actions and taking an interest in
meeting the needs of the people is what the focus should be.

Aug 20, 2003, 10:57am

.. . . I seriously don't know how to comment... I... eh... ug... eh... ble...
.....

You've really gone nutters with this whole democracy/free the people idea.
But, you just don't get it... AWCom is a company, they own the universe
software, as well as the browser you use to get to it. What you're doing,
is like building a house on someone else's land while they're living there,
and disregarding the owners, and the police because you're doing what's
"fair" and "right". AWCom doesn't need to meet anyone's needs! You cant
"free the people", you're not some missionary, to tame the wilds of AWCom
and bring civilization to it.

Also, where are these devices of torture? I don't see anyone being tortured
here. If someone doesn't like how they're being treated, they can leave;
that is, unless they're a masochist. People normally don't walk willingly
into the spinning blades of airplanes, or shoot themselves in the face, so
why would they accept this, "torture"?

Really... Is you're native language not English like good ole' hotbar, or am
I just missing something?

-Joe


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Aug 20, 2003, 11:18am

If you are doing or saying things that the diverse cultures of the world
consider to be immoral and doing them where people can view or know of them,
then why shouldn't you be "judged", "condemned" or mentally "tortured" by
those same people that you are offending???

That's how the world works, ya know...

"If you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen."


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Aug 20, 2003, 1:12pm

[View Quote] >If you are doing or saying things that the diverse cultures of the world
>consider to be immoral and doing them where people can view or know of them,
>then why shouldn't you be "judged", "condemned" or mentally "tortured" by
>those same people that you are offending???
>
>That's how the world works, ya know...

No it isn't. In a bigot country maybe, but in civilised countries,
there are public institutions created for the purpose of seeing that
rules are unforces, of judging and, if found guilty, penalising.
Private harrassing is forbiden in those countries: it is illegal and
sick. Private opinions are of course allowed everywhere, and should
be kept private.

Alex

>
>"If you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen."
>
>
[View Quote]

Aug 20, 2003, 1:18pm

[View Quote] I didn't realize consumers needed to be protected from their own bad
decisions. It was my assumption that if you didn't like a product, you
weren't supposed to keep using it, or keep paying for it. Activeworlds
was even so nice as to allow a free trial period (tourist or
citizenship, so you cannot blame them for _anything_).

If anyone is to blame, it's her. But maybe I misunderstood you, are you
saying that we're not supposed to tell her she's an idiot that she can't
realize that? I guess it would've been wrong to do it the first time
and simply tell her, like we did, that she cannot do anything but pay
and play. But, this isn't the first time. This is the, what is it,
sevenht time now? I'm sorry if I don't care what she thinks anymore (it
seems I'm really not the only one).

--
--Bowen--

No of SETI units returned: 69
Processing time: 57 days, 10 hours.
(Total hours: 1378)
www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu

Aug 20, 2003, 2:59pm

Hey Enzo :D
There is an extra $60 for you if Eep is allowed back LOL ;)

Elyk



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Aug 20, 2003, 3:15pm

If I didnt laugh at you all the time id filter you :)

- Mark

Aug 20, 2003, 3:27pm

We form our own opinions no matter what a government says... That is our
right... If I want to think you are an idiot and tell you that's my opinion
of you, then I will... And have done so...

Should I leave all opinions/beliefs up to the government to dictate??? I'd
say that is what a lot of Germans did back in the 1940's and we all know
what happened because of that...

Even in your country doctors are pulling the plug on the sick and elderly no
matter what anyone that's involved says just because your government says
they can... That would not stop me from calling the government unfeeling
creeps... Would it stop you from saying what your opinion is if it went
against your government???

If so then you are just a lamb and deserve to be led to the slaughter when
it's your turn to fall under unfeeling person's opinions and they have the
power to act on them... :o(

And, before you bring it up, I don't totally approve of the death penality
in the U.S. even though my government says it's legal...


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Aug 20, 2003, 4:07pm

You must feel really helpless to wish something like that back.

Check the google NG search if you love eep so much.

The Lady might sound a little strange sometimes (well, often) -
but I prefer strange over mean. Mean is usually on purpose.


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Aug 20, 2003, 4:23pm

The lady just for my own personal amusement when you play pac-man do you
email the creaters saying, pacman should be a democracy, where ghosts and
pac-men work together, and it is my right to declare my independance from
the game, blah blah blah. Basically, see how stupid that sounds? Its the
same thing here, I used to just sit back and chuckle at the silly posts of
yours, but one can only chuckle so much O_O

-Mod
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Aug 20, 2003, 5:30pm

Aug 20, 2003, 5:38pm

Yes, I agree, e n z o should delete your post titled "Enzo Please Delete
this".

-Joe

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Aug 20, 2003, 6:20pm

I'll pitch in $40 for an even $100 ;D

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Aug 20, 2003, 6:22pm

Ere ere

- Mark

Aug 20, 2003, 6:23pm

[View Quote] E N Z O asked me to pitch in -$20 Million. You two decide who'll split
the cost. :P

--
--Bowen--

No of SETI units returned: 69
Processing time: 57 days, 10 hours.
(Total hours: 1378)
www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu

Aug 20, 2003, 7:41pm

*puts a dime in the collection cup*

-Joe

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Aug 20, 2003, 8:31pm

When the hell are you all going to learn 2 basic things?
No.1) TheLady never reads anything you guys post, she posts and forgets
about it.
No.2) Nothing you guys say here is gonna make her stop posting.
Conclusion: Why do you guys even bother reading her posts in the first place
if they annoy you? Curiosity? Looking for something to do to kill boredom?
It's strange how you are all drawn to her posts soon after shes posts them.
This is a new forum, is AW that boring that you spend all your time
chatting here in this forum?

Aug 20, 2003, 9:00pm

What you are missing is this, Daphne. You have no right to apply your
own moral judgemets as if they were valid for all. When you attack
(even behind their backs, and viciously) Goreans or others, you are
making a big mistake. You are playing God. I have no affinity with
Goreans (as far as I know), but moral standards also apply or should
to you.

Certainly we form our own moral opinions. What we do not have the
right to do is to hassle, torture or whatever justifying it as from
our own moral opinions.

Sept 11 happend just by the sort of reasoning you hold... A bunch of
people believe the american way of life and international intervention
is immoral. They may or not be right, but that gives them NO WAY THE
RIGHT TO APPLY HASSELING MEASURES. Hasseling has degrees, from
bullying to murder.

You have hassled many, I am one of them. I also know you do a lot of
good work. So just drop the bigotry?

Alex

[View Quote] >We form our own opinions no matter what a government says... That is our
>right... If I want to think you are an idiot and tell you that's my opinion
>of you, then I will... And have done so...
>
>Should I leave all opinions/beliefs up to the government to dictate??? I'd
>say that is what a lot of Germans did back in the 1940's and we all know
>what happened because of that...
>
>Even in your country doctors are pulling the plug on the sick and elderly no
>matter what anyone that's involved says just because your government says
>they can... That would not stop me from calling the government unfeeling
>creeps... Would it stop you from saying what your opinion is if it went
>against your government???
>
>If so then you are just a lamb and deserve to be led to the slaughter when
>it's your turn to fall under unfeeling person's opinions and they have the
>power to act on them... :o(
>
>And, before you bring it up, I don't totally approve of the death penality
>in the U.S. even though my government says it's legal...
>
>
[View Quote]

Aug 20, 2003, 9:17pm

[View Quote] So... you're being a bigot to the bigots? Shouldn't you be hating
yourself, or telling yourself not to talk... or something...

--
--Bowen--

No of SETI units returned: 69
Processing time: 57 days, 10 hours.
(Total hours: 1378)
www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu

Aug 20, 2003, 10:48pm

>So... you're being a bigot to the bigots? Shouldn't you be hating
>yourself, or telling yourself not to talk... or something...

not quite, bowen. you can have your own opinion and ventilate it.
but it has to remain your own opinion. in the world we live, a sort
of consensus has to be applied. at least, that is the basis of
western thought. since many years, the western society has based its
organisation in a 3-way power scheme: executives (president etc),
lawmaker, judges. each has its own function and is indeendant of the
others (the terms in english may be slightly different, my own laguage
is spanish). one big advantage above previous schemes is that the law
may not be made by an individual. not that this is always fair, but
it is fairer than others. linching (a private initiative) was
cosidered fair in some of your states a few decades ago... would it be
fair in your opinion? condemning people only based on your own system
of values, is that fair?

Daphne has in her posting here promoted the use of hatred, retaliation
and violence against people that she considers immoral, according to
her morals (disguised as puplic morals). I defy that, and abhore this
sort of bigotry.

Alex

[View Quote] [View Quote]

Aug 20, 2003, 10:52pm

[View Quote] That's your right as an individual, it's also her right to express her
hatred and hope that others agree with her so that action may be taken
to stop things that are rediculosly tedious to others. :-\

--
--Bowen--

No of SETI units returned: 69
Processing time: 57 days, 10 hours.
(Total hours: 1378)
www.setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu

Aug 20, 2003, 11:11pm

>
>That's your right as an individual, it's also her right to express her
>hatred and hope that others agree with her so that action may be taken
>to stop things that are rediculosly tedious to others. :-\

Sure, except when one has the choice to respect other people, one has
the ability to use that choice. Especially when one is ith a position
of power (as Daphne is, ruling on a few worlds). Hatred an bigotry
leads nowhere.

I was very shocked when a couple of years ago, after gladly agreeing
to help Daphne to make a free bot for her event on Halloween, she
forbade me to make a bot fot another world which she CONSIDERED
immoral (oct31 I think). This was a very difficult decision, but I
decided not to help Daphne. This sort of incident has beeing
repeating itself, when she waged a 'behind your back' war against GOR
and lately against myself.

Bigotry? Nice and good people can turn out as biggots... just you
wait :(

Alex

Aug 20, 2003, 11:21pm

Usually I'm nice to you, but this is just so incredibly stupid that I feel
like I'm gonna explode... anyway, I have no real idea what your talking
about or why it fits into an AW newsgroup. How is physical torture inflicted
over the internet? And what about mental torture? Can't you just leave the
place on the internet your in?

"There is a very diverse culture here. Each person comes here with their
own
unique personal situation. Noone should be tortured here. Instead,
influencing a good quality of life, moral actions and taking an interest in
meeting the needs of the people is what the focus should be."

WHAT THE HELL? WHERE? WHAT TORTURE? HOW DO YOU INFLUENCE A GOOD QUALITY OF
LIFE FROM ACTIVE WORLDS? Oh crag-monkeys... my heads goona explode...
[View Quote]

Aug 20, 2003, 11:25pm

oh dear, hope you won't really explode :) use your brains if possible!

Alex

[View Quote] >Usually I'm nice to you, but this is just so incredibly stupid that I feel
>like I'm gonna explode... anyway, I have no real idea what your talking
>about or why it fits into an AW newsgroup. How is physical torture inflicted
>over the internet? And what about mental torture? Can't you just leave the
>place on the internet your in?
>
>"There is a very diverse culture here. Each person comes here with their
>own
>unique personal situation. Noone should be tortured here. Instead,
>influencing a good quality of life, moral actions and taking an interest in
>meeting the needs of the people is what the focus should be."
>
>WHAT THE HELL? WHERE? WHAT TORTURE? HOW DO YOU INFLUENCE A GOOD QUALITY OF
>LIFE FROM ACTIVE WORLDS? Oh crag-monkeys... my heads goona explode...
[View Quote]

Aug 21, 2003, 8:33am

Joeman, AW has always been a self-policing world. There have always been
key people involved in how AW is governed. Nothing is new about my idea of
forming a democracy. We already have certain powers in place, we have from
the beginning. However, what we don't have is the ability for all citizens
to make their wishes count in the form of a vote. AW seems to have (or
allow) certain powers to control immoral actions; however, it is cruel,
severe, and could be damaging to the citizens. What we need to understand
is judging and taking action on undesirable actions without allowing them
the opportunity to defend themselves is nothing less than allowing the most
severe form of a dictatorship in power. Coupled with no solid
foundation/group in place to meet the needs of the citizens, it leaves them
traumatized with no place to go. All of us have an obligation to invest in
the future of AW. The process has begun.

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Aug 21, 2003, 8:59am

It is no secret, especially to the leadership of AW (which includes you)
that there is a power in place to get and maintain control of the citizens.

However, your post skims that fact and instead seems to center on a peer
pressure or bullying type focus.

There is a huge difference between being under the power of bullies versus
being bullied by people that have no power of you. Shall I name some?

Unfair job opportunities
Mishandling of private and personal information
Favoritism
Invasion of Privacy
Mishandling or Abuse of funds/royalties/perks

and more.......

[View Quote]

Aug 21, 2003, 9:19am

mod, I play Ms. Pac-Man. "Every man needs a good woman by his side and Ms
Pac-Man is just that woman"

As I stated in an earlier post, AW has always had leadership in place in one
form or another, independent of the local area in which we live. Has always
been a self-policing world. It lacks allowing its' citizens voting power.
It lacks a strong organized effort by way of core people in place who's job
is meeting the needs of the people, influencing moral behavior, spiritual
issues, health issues and many more.

http://www.basementarcade.com/arcade/mspacman/msmain.html

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Aug 21, 2003, 9:23am

"the lady" <thelady263414 at hotmail.com> wrote in
news:3f4361c7$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com:

> Any power in place that seeks to judge and condemn a people for
> immoral actions by way of mental or physical torture should be routed
> out, disbanded and left powerless.
>
> There is a very diverse culture here. Each person comes here with
> their own unique personal situation. Noone should be tortured here.
> Instead, influencing a good quality of life, moral actions and taking
> an interest in meeting the needs of the people is what the focus
> should be.

Can't you please just remove her posting ability? She's filling the
newsgroups with mad ramblings!

KAH

Aug 21, 2003, 9:42am

In response to your questions:

How is physical torture inflicted over the internet?
And what about mental torture?
Indirectly maybe. However, that statement was made to impress the fact that
physical and mental torture go together. In other words, both are
abhorrible acts against a people. One can be just as bad as the other.
Mental torture, although you can't see it, feel it, touch it, is just as
serious as physical torture. One shouldn't be more impressed upon than the
other.

Can't you just leave the place on the internet your in?
Yes. However, AW is a real community, with real people, real friends, real
relationships. It isn't within the scope of being humane to ask someone to
leave their realm of community to allow mental torture to persist plaguing
innocent people.

What torture?
When immoral acts are committed in AW, an organized effort by a group of
people mentally torture them. This not only happens for immoral acts, it
happens for other things, too.

How do you influence a good quility of life from activeworlds?
As I stated in an earlier post, by forming a core group of key people to
oversee meeting the needs of the community - spiritually, physical health,
mental health, morality, and other important issues concerning the people.

[View Quote]

Aug 21, 2003, 1:05pm

Alex

Would you care to tell me just how I would even be able to "apply my own
moral judgements" on anyone in AW in a Real way as opposed to a Virtual
way??? Maybe by picking just anyone to help host CitBingo whether I feel
they could do a good job, get along with others and keep the world G-Rated
like AWI has posted it??? Maybe you want me to do the same in AWTrivia and
let a potty-mouthed kid be a host so they can offend any players they choose
to???

That's not a "Real way" I might apply my "moral standards" but it IS a way
in which I help keep the 2 worlds I run for AWI within their stated
rating... I suppose you'll see something wrong with that too... I
suppose you'll say that people that I turn down might be so hurt they cry
and crying is Real... :o)

I have every right to form my own moral standards and if someone offends
them then I have the right to say they have... I can't choose for others
but I can most certainly choose for myself... If others want to adopt any
of my choices, then that is their right because it was there choice to do
so... I cannot make others believe as I believe and doing so is not my
goal... You line about opinions having to remain your own is a lot of
hooey, if you ask me... Do you think people form opinions just by picking
them off the "opinion tree" or something??? They learn them by experience;
by listening to others and choosing for themeselves which ones they want to
keep or not...

Then there are others who play God, like you did a few years ago while we
were both named as co-organizers of the AVATARS Convention... You kept
talking down to me in the e-mail group that had been set up and, even though
I asked you to please stop doing it, you couldn't seem to quit... Since
I had started the job there and promised Bruce that I would do it, I
finished my end of it --- and THEN blasted you in an e-mail... If you could
put me down then I guess I could return the favor; and did... Now you
organize the AVATARS Convention and IN MY OPINION it's becoming less and
less of what it was once was... Heck, Alex... Your attitude that year not
only alienated me but it also alienated 2 others of the 3 ppl that helped
for years to pull it all together and made it the grand event it used to
e --- but is no more!!! Give yourself a pat on the back for that, dear...

As for some bot you said I asked you to make for Halloween, I don't even
remember anything about it, but if I did as you said then it was because I
had probably asked you for the bot script to be an exclusive one... That
you wanted to let Oct31 world have it too would have been a problem in that
case...

You want to talk about hassling someone then why don't we talk about the
hassling you gave me over a kid that took up a lot of land in AWTeen??? I
knew the kid, you didn't... I knew that he had big plans... He didn't
really realize just how much land he had covered!!! You didn't know him
from Adam... All you knew was that he had made a mess... Well that's
true... He had made a mess and I accepted the job of cleaning it up...
Why??? Because I knew the kid had value...

You got so ticked off at me defending him that you even wrote to AWI, asking
that they shut down his account!!! (Who was playing God then, Alex???)
Yes, you helped clean up the mess --- one fairly small part of it it turns
out... I worked for days on end cleaning it up and with the kid's
blessing, once he realized the enormity of what he had done...

Maybe what you don't know is that a year down the road, that same kid was a
good part of the AWTeen council and helped that world in quite a few ways...
You were wrong yet you felt it was YOUR right to try to get him kicked out
and your right to stand there telling me what I should do and when... :o(



LOL... "hatred, retaliation and violence" indeed!!! LOL

Alex, IRL I would never go to someone's house and hassle them or hassle them
when I saw them on the street... In AW, if someone ticks me off then they
and others will hear about it... You didn't seem to care that you put me
down for one reason or another, so if you have been bad-mouthed by me then
that is your payment for it... I sure ain't coming to the Netherlands and
knocking on your door or sending you harassing e-mail... That's not my
style... My style is to voice my feelings and you have definately earned
some negative feelings for me to voice...

Maybe you should have thought of "my style" before you felt god-like enough
to put me down among other things... :o)



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