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Jun 12, 2003, 2:44pm

MrBruce, Don't worry about it. It has happened for a long time in this NG
that there are those who will reply to a post with the intent of an
intelligent rebuttal. Then there are those will will try to divert
attention from the subject by picking at little things that are trivial to
the majority - it's manipulation to draw attention away from the real
subject at hand and it should be ignored. Then there are those that post
out of pure silliness. In the end, you have to sift it like flour to be
able to find those few posts that are keepers. 7 intelligent posts
discussing a subject of interest, 30 posts or more full of attention
diverting tactics so no one will be able to find those 7 intelligent posts =
problem gets pushed aside or forgotten about, or worse, implemented without
a vote from the citizens.

Jun 12, 2003, 3:51pm

Oh, my, god. Shut, up.


--
--Bowen--

Jun 12, 2003, 3:56pm

Suggestion the lady, leave aw, it would be best for everyone.


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Jun 12, 2003, 3:57pm

Everytime I see her posts I feel like yelling Shutup 5k times.

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Jun 12, 2003, 5:42pm

UR KEWL

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Jun 12, 2003, 5:45pm

The problem, the lady, is that while you are sifting through the posts,
looking for the keepers, you are only looking for people who think and act
like you do.

Since I have no answers from you to the questions I have asked you in past
posts, I expect I am one of the evil people you seem to need to ignore. You
dont' seem to be willing, or able, to discuss a subject with any one but the
people who think and act like you do.

Personally from what i've seen of your posts, I am thinking that you are an
instagator. And, when you don't get the caotic reaction you are looking for
in one post, you think up another subject to instagate. Take MrBruce's post
for instance, you seem to comizorate with him on his problems. So, he is the
only one you seem to be willing to talk directly to at this time. Why are
you not willing to respond to people who don't share your opinions? That is
what conversation is; shareing opinions and ideas even if they don't really
agree with your own. No offence MrBruce, I am trying to stay out of your
personal buisness.

I personally consider any one who would try to get people to go around
pointing fingers at other people without really giveing detail as to who or
why, and then not responding to them when asked who or why, a coward.

I don't expect a responce from you, the lady, because I am sure you consider
me one of those evil people who need to be ignored just because I don't
share the same opinion as you. And I know you are not willing to open your
narrow mind enough to even think about, or maybe even accept, that some one
elses opinion may be worth considering.

For the record, the lady, I think that some of your ideas are very good
ones. But, you don't seem to want to give details or a sugestions on how you
think the problems you see could be solved. Instead you bring your personal
beliefs in and alienate the readers by preaching and calling people you
dont' agree with evil and not worth associateing with. And when asked for
details and sugestions, it is ignored.

Also you don't seem to be able to seperate the real world community problems
from online community problems. That is also one of the problems you keep
running into. Problems in the online community can not be solved the same
way as in real life. For instance, you seem to like preaching, I still don't
know what religeon you are. And in here you are dealing with a whole lot of
religeons, not just yours. I expect in what ever town you are in, you are
able to get away with the they are evil, we are not, kind of thing, because
you are in a community of your own religeon. One of the things I like about
Aw is that it dosn't matter what religeon you are, it dosn't matter what
color your skin is, it dosnt' matter if you are handycap, and it dosnt'
matter what politicol beliefs you have. What matters here is we are all
human beings, we are the same.

I would really like to get that point across to you so that maybe you will
stop thinking about every one in AW as, me and them, good and evil. Untill
you do get that point, and start leaveing the me and them, good and evil out
of you posts, you will always run into problems getting your point and ideas
across, because just pointing a finger here and thre and saying they are
evil people, or there is a problem cause evil has crept into the community,
will not be accepted here as a valid arguement. Or, at least for me, it
won't be accepted as a valid reason to ignore other people.

Sorry every one that this is so long.

Also sorry about the bad spelling.

Ok, who will be the first to attack this post. Waiting :)






[View Quote]

Jun 12, 2003, 6:25pm

HIT
REPLY
BUTTON
NOT
NEW
POST

--
Brock - 308723 - DE Leader
[View Quote]

Jun 12, 2003, 7:55pm

Perhaps you word them wrong - I never have a problem getting my point
across.


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Jun 12, 2003, 7:59pm

What I don't understand is. Many of you have already made your
statements to The Lady to stop, leave, get a life or whatever and yet you
keep replying / reading her threads in hope to find something that you can
actually understand/agree with? I don't understand why you even make
replies to her if you want her to stop. Virtual Ping Pong in the NG's. LOL
Actually.. In my reality.. She is the manipulator.. She has you right where
she wants you and loves the attention, Negative or otherwise, and you keep
feeding her exactly what she so desires. So actually, she's smarter than
you think.
Oh, and of course, this is the opinions of the Bits. Wannabe Psycho?
oops.. Psychologist? LOL Anyway.. I read some of the threads until I get
bored of what I am reading and then simply right click on the group and
press catch up.
I just wanted to share what I see whether I'm right or wrong doesn't
matter.. Just food for thought I guess. Anywho, peace all!
*Sits back, sips on his soda and presses Send.

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Jun 12, 2003, 8:18pm

I did answer you. : )

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Jun 12, 2003, 8:35pm

I think I like their label of "Hot Potato", "Unable to Work Her Way To
Freedom", "Altruistic", "(These I won't mention, not for newsgroup)", better
than the new one you just gave me, "Manipulator"; however, I'll be fair
about it and add yours to the list.

[View Quote] Actually.. In my reality.. She is the manipulator.. She has you right where
she wants you and loves the attention, Negative or otherwise, and you keep
feeding her exactly what she so desires. So actually, she's smarter than
you think.

>
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Jun 12, 2003, 8:47pm

"I am sure you consider
me one of those evil people who need to be ignored just because I don't
share the same opinion as you."
------

-I know I am one of them *G*


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Jun 12, 2003, 9:25pm

You are right, you did answer that question. And somehow I overlooked your
answer. Just read back through the posts and found it unread. I apologize.

another, I've had trouble maintaining being involved in community oriented
things myself. And I've wondered whether the things I think would help me
would also help someone who attempts to destroy the community. I'm not sure
what the answer is to that question. Maybe it is something similar to what
they did to me after I couldn't get a job in Active Worlds doing anything
because of the problem with my bad reputation. They gave me a lot of
responsibility somewhere else, sole responsibility, not shared
responsibility. There's a big difference. When you have sole
responsibility of something, it gives you much more hope in eventually being
included and accepted by peers that already have shown leadership
capabilities; whereas, shared responsibility still leaves some doubt within
you. Also, It all boils down to what you think of yourself. If you are
solely responsible for your job, there's absolutely no doubt when you've
accomplished it or if it becomes very successful that you did it yourself.
Take that to the next step, when you know you've accomplished something on
your own, what you think of yourself is much more positive than if the
responsibility was shared. The important thing to remember is if this is
done, it must be in a setting where the leader is very trustworthy. Usually
people that have a problem wrecking a community and are not able to feel
included have a very big problem in putting their full trust in leaders,
either because they've been treated unfairly by them in the past, felt put
in compromising situations, or even abused. That leader also must have
flexibility in the ability to allow the troubled person to experiment with
the things that best help them to get their job done. I'm very fortunate in
that the last job I had, no one came and told me I couldn't do this or that
when it came down to how I felt I could best get the job done. Nor was the
leader someone that smashed the law down over our heads. Also, the leader
was vey trustworthy, just right for the job. Regarding negative behaviors
that might arise, there are craftier ways to divert them other than direct
confrontation. Always maintaining positiveness and friendliness upfront,
allowing flexibility to experiment with different ways in getting the job
done, negative behaviors diverted in indirect ways might even help to turn
the punishment into a regular job. The ultimate goal for them is inclusion
and feeling accepted. Then hopefully, the negative behaviors will
cease.<<<<<<<

You are right, in some cases being nice or giveing responsibility to a
trouble maker sometimes dose help. I do practice that option my self. But,
it dosn't help in all cases, and if you are not a world owner there are not
a lot of community jobs to hand out even if that would help.

I'm glad the job they gave you worked out :)

wants to
hear. I used to work for someone when I was younger, that I realize now had
the most wisdom of anyone I'll probably ever meet. Whenever there would be
a new law that affected the business we were in, he'd always say, "It's
probably because someone found a way to abuse the privilege."
Unfortunately, as much as we love our freedom of speech, freedom to change
screen names, etc., it also gives way for us to use that privilege in an
abusive way, unmoral way, a way of avoiding responsibility for our actions,
generally..........in a way to fool someone, the ones we love, the ones we
dislike, those we want to hurt, those we want to get revenge on. But what
we must remember about this online community, is there is a double whammy
involved when we do that. There are always going to be those that have the
ability to watch these actions (by hacking, etc) and use them as evil means.
If we are to survive and flourish as a community, BOTH of these realities
must be taken into consideration, because, unfortunately, if it is not, what
the community is really saying is, "Go ahead evil, you are allowed to rule
this place I love." And what the company is really saying is, "Go ahead
evil, we'll allow you to wreck our business." As a community, WE must
decide the balance.<<<<<<<<,

I do think that you need to stop seeing evil everywhere you turn. It seems
like an obsession. It's not healthy. Most of the stuff you call evil is in
reality normal every day occurances. Most people just deal with it.

But,
was that going too far?<<<<<<<<

Protect it's citizens from what? We were all tourists at one time or another
and I know that no one needed protecting from me :) So, Yes, if that was the
reason the tourists were banned, I think they went to far. I dont' think
that was the actual reason for banning them tho. Either way it went to far.
Without the tourists to continue the groth of the community, the community
will stagnate and eventually die out.

actions,<<<<

What do you consider sever actions?
In a free building world, such as Alpha World, your builds should be safe if
you built as a citizen. If you don't like the conversations people around
you are haveing, you can always leave for a little while till they leave. Or
maybe call a PK. I don't usually hang out in Alpha World but when I was
there I didn't see any sign of anything as bad as, sever actions, so you
will have to clearify that for me, sorry.

community should be given some options,<<<<<<<<

As for a private world we have, as world owners, been given the option to
eject trouble makers. If you are haveing problems in a private world, you
should talk to the world owner.

then ability to vote.<<<<<<<<<

Vote on what? The only vote that would help as far as I can tell is the
ability to vote some ones cit privileges to be revoket to stop the trouble.
For that to happen you would have to get AWI on board with it. I dont' see
that happening. But you can try.

I and a whole lot of other citizens seem to be getting along ok in AW. We
have our share of trouble makers to deal with on occasion. But we seem to
handle it and come out of it ok. It's dwelling on it that dosnt' help. It
just makes the problem seem larger then it really is. I'm not saying that
there aren't problems in AW, i'm saying learn to deal with it and get past
it without starting an uprise over it. If something extreamly serious
happens, then you can always call AWI and talk to them and see if you can
come to a solution with them.

Imagine

[View Quote]

Jun 12, 2003, 9:32pm

We could start a evil people's club. The only restriction to get in is, you
have to be deemed evil by the lady :) Oh what evil we could do if only the
lady would deem us so. lol

Imagine

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Jun 12, 2003, 10:55pm

Darn, that's so restrictive. I haven't been deemed evil yet. I think you
need to loosen your requirements.

Ryan

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Jun 12, 2003, 11:08pm

ok, just for you. If she deems you ungodly, you can squeeze in. :)

Imagine

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Jun 13, 2003, 12:16am

It's ok, sometimes it is very hard to tell by the way they are threaded.
I've done the same thing myself. : )

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Jun 13, 2003, 1:17am

Consequences for severe actions? I would consider any kind of hacking
needing to be dealt with severe consequences.

Protecting the citizens from what? AWI said that one of the reasons they
would not open the worlds to tourists is because they build and leave
pornography. I would call that a protecting the citizens measure.

Regarding the ability to vote. Everyone in public AWI worlds should have
the ability to vote and have the outcomes implemented. Everyone! This
place has challenged the rights of free men, women and children!
Absolutely! Positively!


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Jun 13, 2003, 2:30am

[View Quote] I think you should report hacking to the authoreties. If you can prove a
citizen of AW is hacking, then show your proof to AWI and i'm sure they
would probably stop the cit account of the hacker.
>
> Protecting the citizens from what? AWI said that one of the reasons they
> would not open the worlds to tourists is because they build and leave
> pornography. I would call that a protecting the citizens measure.>

In a publick building worlds like Alpha Worlds, right click and delete when
you see trourist porno. You can do that as a cit. I have seen citizen builds
with porno in them. It isn't just the tourists. If that was one of the
reasons they gave, it was more of an excuse then a reason.

> Regarding the ability to vote. Everyone in public AWI worlds should have
> the ability to vote and have the outcomes implemented. Everyone! >>

Like I said, you would need to get AWI on board with the voteing thing. So
you will have to talk to them about it. Personaly, I think that if we start
voteing on things then sooner or later we would end up voteing on who is
worth being a citizen and world owner. If you don't like the person or
world, then vote it out. No, voteing isn't the way.

This
> place has challenged the rights of free men, women and children!
> Absolutely! Positively!
>
>
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Jun 13, 2003, 8:31am

The problem with evilness is that it is so relative. What I might consider
evil, might be the ultimatum good for another and vice versa. I will not
give examples here so I will not get the ultra-nationalistic idiots all over
me again.
Other problem is, that I do not belive anything/anyone is 100% evil or good.
Every person has his/her good and evil sides, and when we know evil is a
relative concept; in the end we will have severe problems knowing if someone
is evil or good.

So I wonder how one should be accepted to the club. The Lady should make a
test of everyone wanting to join, and the result would show how many percent
evil one is according to her standards, and everyone who would reach a
certain percentage would be accepted. Then again people change their
opinions so the test should be renewed on a regular basis. It would also be
possible thet The Lady changed her opinion, that would cause an instant test
according to the new standards of evil; it might even result in a suspension
of a majority in the club....

Drac
imagine <imagines at joimail.com> kirjoitti
viestissä:3ee90d93 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> We could start a evil people's club. The only restriction to get in is,
you
> have to be deemed evil by the lady :) Oh what evil we could do if only the
> lady would deem us so. lol
>
> Imagine
>
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Jun 13, 2003, 10:03am

The problem with moral relativism is that if everyone were to follow it,
the world would be a place of total chaos. Just think: If someone
started a killing spree against gays or blacks or abortionists or any of
the other persecuted groups, using the excuse that they are morally
justified in ridding the world of these people, then, in a morally
relative world, no one could do anything to stop that person. Since he
believes that he is morally just in his actions, that must mean it's ok,
right? :P

[View Quote]
--
Goober King
Not everything is relative
awnews at awnews.org

Jun 13, 2003, 2:17pm

This is why I don't join clubs. They get so complicated :P
[View Quote] This is why only people who the lady deems evil can join. It would be what
ever the lady considers evil.

>The Lady should make a
> test of everyone wanting to join, and the result would show how many
percent
> evil one is according to her standards, and everyone who would reach a
> certain percentage would be accepted. Then again people change their
> opinions so the test should be renewed on a regular basis. It would also
be
> possible thet The Lady changed her opinion, that would cause an instant
test
> according to the new standards of evil; it might even result in a
suspension
> of a majority in the club....<<<

Let's hope the lady dose change her opinion. I agree with you that people
aren't 100% evil.
>
> Drac
> imagine <imagines at joimail.com> kirjoitti
> viestissä:3ee90d93 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> you
the
don't
> posts,
and
in
> ignore.
> but
> are
> looking
MrBruce's
he
> is
Why
> That
> your
around
> who
coward.
> don't
open
> some
> good
> how
> you
asked
still
> lot
you
like
> what
> dosnt'
> all
you
> evil
and
> are
> it
an
divert
> real
that
to
posts
attention
intelligent
implemented
>
>

Jun 13, 2003, 3:29pm

The Lady, I hate to point this out but if you aren't happy with AW you
should just plain leave rather than complaining, after all it would save you
money.

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Jun 13, 2003, 3:38pm

If that is a real question I have at least one answer for you from my
perspective. It's kind of like watching Jim Carrey or Robin Williams. You
don't really expect them to come up with anything intellectually stimulating
or sound, as a matter of fact that's exactly why you're watching/listening
to them, to see what amusing, off-the-wall kind of stuff will come up next.
Come on-be honest-isn't that why you've read some threads? Entertainment.
You are reading this one you know. But in this case it's written with the
expectation what is said WILL be taken seriously. Anyway, because it in some
way is supposed to have some real meaning maybe your intelligence gets
insulted or something strikes you in a certain way and no matter how hard
you try to keep your fingers off the keyboard, somehow a post is sent in
your name. (Not all fit this of course, just a very few posts, maybe even
mine included, and for the most part these newsgroups are so educational and
helpful for everyone, especially the technically un-savvy like me)
Anyway-just my take on it.

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Jun 13, 2003, 4:00pm

[View Quote] Yes, but, if you watch The Mask 200 times, you get bored of it. It's
not that she's said it, it's that she's said it over and over and over,
and over, maybe once more for luck -- because you know people hated it
the first time, why not reiterate it a third and 90th time.

--
--Bowen--

Jun 13, 2003, 4:54pm

Well yes, of course, but that's why I only watched The Mask 11 times,
eventually I knew what was coming. But let's say they changed the name of
The Mask to something else-for example "Persuasion of Children". You have no
way of knowing it is the same thing until you've seen it. After all, both
Carrey and Williams have been in at least semi-serious movies before. (I
think anyway).

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Jun 13, 2003, 5:34pm

Where do you find the time to type these huge responses? lol

Does anyone even read these??
--
- Syntax -
http://www.swcity.net
http://forum.swcity.net

[View Quote]

Jun 13, 2003, 6:05pm

Yup, they start as something fun and simple.. Then a few club members don't
like what other club members are doing. It becomes Political. The voting
process starts. The President of the club gets booted out. The name
calling, slander begins to boil over. The club divides. Lawyers get
called.. etc.. etc.. so on... Yup.. it's a mess. LOL

Is AW a club? (Carolann) this is retorical. ;)

You guessed it.. I'm just reading the NG's cause I had a few minutes to kill
and wanted to get a couple chuckles.

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Jun 13, 2003, 8:27pm

Will someone on a 64 bit system please query for how many times the word
'MrBruce' has been said or posted... I tried but a 8 byte variable to count
em overflowed...

- Mark

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Jun 13, 2003, 10:09pm

LOL your just jealious :P
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