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May 2, 2003, 8:01pm

[View Quote] Mmm I remember four years ago when The Lady went on (first ever?)
avatar hunger strike on top of a skyscraper in Metatropolis,
"for better communication between AWLD and the citizens" :)
http://mauz.info/awpics1999/COFmeta-19990210.jpg

--
Mauz
http://mauz.info

May 3, 2003, 1:07am

[View Quote] You forget one SMALL probelm Lady. This was all done BEFORE 3.4 was
released as an Open Beta. Things have changed since that time. AlphaWorld
is NO LONGER the "prize" world. This honor goes to AWGate (with maybe
AWTeen being a close second). Heck, this was all done even before the name
change from AWCorp to AWI if memory serves me right.

> well, maybe if i get to talk to ENZO himself about
it.................which
> is unlikely!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He seems to be monitoring the newsgroups AT LEAST on a semi-regular basis
now. I see no reason as to why you should have a problem reaching him
NOW.... *scratching head*

> seems one need to register and to logon to giving a vote ?
> if so, a hint: if you allow open access to the voting page, you probably
> will get more votes.

Registering on AWNews (which IS BTW Goober's OWN SITE and has NO LEGAL
RELATIONSHIP with AWI) is really quite painless. All that's needed is a
username and an email address that you check regularly. Again, I fail to
understand your problem... *scratching head some more*

> I have been around here for a long time.. a year before I became a cit..
> makes it about 6 years.. was PK 3 yrs with Razzle etc.. you notice that
> without the Tourists.. doesn't seem to be much need for PKs..

You haven't paying too much attention to the discussion about the GK's, have
you???

> well ..... like I said its interesting *smiles* as far as the tourist
thing
> I think it would be great to have them back...

And to have them back WITHOUT A PRICE for World Owners. I know Hamsterville
will flourish once tourists see the town and realize that citizenship DOES
have its advantages. :-)

Plus, it'll make putting together a Convention & Visitors Bureau more
worthwhile too. :-)


> Owning 3 worlds and payin for them to enter two of my worlds its been a
little let down ...
> there is not that many tourist visiting either of my worlds that allow
them ..... Also
> being part of Tours world I've not seen many visit there either..


Speaking of tours, a BRILLIANT idea just hit me (I know...this could be a
scary thought coming from me), but has anyone in the community thought of
SPONSORING tours of the AW Universe before tourists were costly (if not
unaffordable altogether by MANY World Owners)?? If not, maybe this is
something the AW Community might wanna pursue should tourists be allowed
back on Non-AWI worlds and AlphaWorld (Uhh....ohh...Me gets the feeling he
just volunteered his services to the AW Community :-/ j/k :-)).

Just my $.02 worth....Cheers for now everyone :-)

Patrick Cook (e.g. PC Hamster)
Mayor - city of Hamsterville
pchamster at attbi.com
Denver, Colorado (my REAL city :-))

May 3, 2003, 1:50am

In 1997, my first day at Activeworlds started in Alpha World. There was
noone explaining why I saw triangles, how to fly, teleport or the ability to
access other worlds. I believe I arrived during a transitional time between
two owners, which was before the gate was formed. During the course of it
all, I remember quite clearly being asked to push my back button, which took
me to more triangles. I felt pretty lost. I was thrilled when the creation
of the gate happened, but I have mulled over your point myself many times
and wholeheartedly agree that AWGate doesn't capture the whole essence of
AW. That is why when I made my first attempt at building a town, I included
Protagonist's picture and some older models first seen close to Alpha World
gz during the early days. It would be nice if AWGate portrayed where we
started from versus the newest tinkertoy model. They say the first
impression is the most lasting; no better way than to incorporate a little
of our history with the new.

[View Quote]

May 3, 2003, 2:44am

Here is your reply:

---------------
Thank you:)
---------------

[View Quote]

May 4, 2003, 12:36am

Cool..thanks for posting that The Lady:)

[View Quote]

May 4, 2003, 6:56pm

The commercial politics of AW seemed to have limit the free access
(tourists). Eventhough this remains discussable, let's get over it!.. It's
a choice....
But some worldowners are paying for the rights to allow tourist access. Why
not identifying these with a special icon ? That would only seem fair, not
?
Because at this moment it looks a bit like as if I place an advertisement
in a newspaper without having the right to mention the name of the
concerning product !..


JermeL

Jul 5, 2003, 4:43pm

As a world owner, I don't want anyone to be completely anonymous.

How much you charge and how you manage that is up to you. Free or not, that
is not an issue to me and I wish you all the success in the world staying in
business, and indeed I hope you find a way to fill both your coffers and the
AW universe(s) with a lot of fresh new paying customers.

I am currently working with two museums to implement a VR facsimile of their
facilities, and the pro's and cons of using both Adobe Atmosphere and Active
Worlds were weighed and considered.

Since the museums are government funded, and must ensure that they are
'friendly' to all visitors, the primary decision to go with Adobe Atmosphere
was made because there is currently no way to allow the general public into
an AW world without also allowing them to be completely anonymous.

During our evaluation of technologies, the people who run the museum were
very excited about the possibility of allowing the many museum volunteers to
work on displays in an online and collaborative environment. The economics
of buying citizenships to do so were not an issue for them. Their smiles
started to droop though as I explained the tourists/citizen model and how
the only way they could allow the general public in was as completely
anonymous and unidentifiable entities.

The museums have IT departments who are quite familiar with online content.
They do not allow unregistered people to post to their own newsgroups
(incidentally neither does AW), so why should they allow visitors to be
subjected to comments from anonymous visitors?

Do what you want about the economics Enzo, but please consider doing
something other than just labelling everyone who's taking AW for a test
drive as 'cit 0'.

For one thing.. don't let anyone in until you've sent an email to the
address they are planning on using. That alone would give me some assurance
that you can at least track down a bad tourist even if they are citizen 0.

But better yet... give them free cit numbers that have restricted abilities.


[View Quote]

Jul 5, 2003, 4:54pm

[View Quote] All you have to do to destroy a tourist build is throw away your ID (i.e.
your cit) and log on with an anonymous email adress as a tourist.

There is no way to tell one tourist from another.. that's the main problem.

Imagine if eveyone visiting the USA was issued a temporary VISA with a
serial number of 00000000.

I don't think such a policy would deter terrorism or mischief makers.

Jul 5, 2003, 4:56pm

Codewarrior... shaddup...

Jul 5, 2003, 5:25pm

I second that, Strike Rapier. That codewarrior is a bit annoying as well.

--
Legion

"I think, therefore I am" - Rene Descartes,
17th-century French philosopher, Earth
[View Quote]

Jul 5, 2003, 9:04pm

Welcome to Active Worlds and the AW newsgroups CodeWarrior. I think you've
brought up a few interesting points that could help make our worlds more
secure and pleasant for our guests. Thank you. Positive input is always
welcome here.

Lady Murasaki


[View Quote]

Jul 5, 2003, 9:41pm

Well, no one is completely anonymous online. The world server logs both
tourist and citizen IP addresses. You can easily see the address if you
have access to the world log files or right-click on someone in a world
if you are a CT or have proper rights. Of course, someone could use one
or more proxies to mask their real IP. There are still ways to track
people down if they use a proxy, the question is if it is worth the time
and effort involved to find them.

Another thing you may be able to do would be to have a bot in the world
that would require people to register a name, e-mail address, or other
things with it. If the person enters the world and doesn't provide the
requested information within X amount of time, they could be ejected or
banned from the world. Of course, this method isn't full proof.

The last idea I have (budget depending) would be to have the museum
purchase a universe separate from the main AW universe. You could have
the main world tourist enabled that just displays basic information
about the museum and the need to register/become a citizen to see the
full "version" of it. The main museum could consist of one or two worlds
with tourist access disabled. Citizenships could either be free or cost
money. Those that would like to see it would then register, and you
would then be able to track them by citizen number, handle, IP address,
e-mail address, etc.

Builderz
http://www.3dhost.net

Jul 5, 2003, 10:24pm

or, you could take down thier computer IDs if its about them causing
trouble. or if its just about them registering, use builderz idea, and have
a bot make them register, or, a website to register from, which when they
do, gives them a cit in thier uni....

-SWE

[View Quote]

Jul 6, 2003, 1:41am

If I didn't know better I would say that the lady has a new name in the news
groups. This and the last 2 threads sound exactly like her. But we know
better, don't we?

codewarrior I agree about the VISA. But, we are not talking about VISAs in
the US, we are talking about tourist builds in the VERTUAL worlds. Yes, you
are right, at this time all one needs to do is go in as a tourist and
distroy a tourist build.

What I was saying in the post was that awi may be able to find a way to stop
that from happening. Maybe find a way for tourists to build according to
their isp or what have you. Another way other then by the number 0.

Then only that tourist and the world owner can delete that tourists build.
Mabye the tourist could build under a tourist guest name. Guess that tourist
would have to log in with the same name all the time that way. And since it
would be registered as that tourist's name then I guess no other tourist
could use it. Kind of solves another comment you made in one of your posts
about tourists always changeing names. No, it wouldn't be a paid account, it
would be a way to track the tourist and to maybe put a stop to vandelisum.
That tourist would still not have all the other things a cit has like a
contact list and such. It would just be a way to track the tourist.

I am not a techy so please don't jump on me about technical stuff connected
to my idea. It's just an idea, and the techy stuff is for AWI to work out if
they go for it.

Now, can I ask why you are dragging this up again?

And why you are directing this issue at me?

Imagine

[View Quote]

Jul 6, 2003, 3:03am

This is a very big step in the direction of a solution, but in order to
satisfy
people like lawyers representing government funded institutions, you would
need to satisfy them that the visitors register *before* being allowed to
speak publicly.

Given however the new disable all chat feature and a bot that could
do as you suggest in the 'foyer' world, it sounds like a workable solution
could now be made to satisfy this kind of application. As long as you don't
stock it with avatars that can perform rude gestures, you could now ensure
a reasonably 'safe' area in the initial world.

Although having to fund an entire universe wasn't in the original plan,
the fact that it comes with a number of citizenships gets around the other
main problem which was to have a cit pool available for staff, tour guides,
VIP's and the like.

It also might be workable with just a Galaxy server given the ability for a
bot to moderate all chat. Since bots can now force feed the av choice as
well, the visitors could be given a completely invisible avatar until they
do
register, meaning they would interact very weakly if at all with anyone
else (neutrino cits).

Thanks for giving me a fresh way to look at that Builderz!

[View Quote]

Jul 6, 2003, 3:46pm

Not all computer have computer IDs, they can also be masked and probably
even removed.
[View Quote]

Jul 6, 2003, 3:50pm

Its called an analogy if you didn't know. No idea how that would be
possible, the entire program would have to be redone that way.
[View Quote]

Jul 6, 2003, 7:04pm

I know it was an analogy. And I got an email from codewarrior, and it's
settled as far as I can tell. On that part.

Any way, I was thinking that AWI could add a tourist database. One where a
trourist could sign up and get a tourist password. Have it so that the name
the password was issued to is not changable. That way the world owner would
see the tourists name, maybe in brackets or something, on the object select
box, rather then a big 0 where a name should be. That would also take care
of tourist vandals, cause they wouldn't have that tourists name or password
so they wouldn't be able to vandalize the trouists property. The world owner
can still delete what ever tourist property they need to. And the tourist
who built on that property can still delete his own tourist build and make
changes.

The tourist would still not have all the privies that a cit has. They would
just be trackable and their builds would be more secure. And the world owner
would more then likely be happier because he wouldn't have garbage all over
the world that the vandals leave.

I know that it would take some programming to make that happen. I assume
that is what AWI pays thier programmers to do, ie, inhance the program so
that we may have a pleasenter experiance in AW.

The world owners and cits who don't own worlds pay way to much as it is.
Dont' you think they should use some of that money to do what, it looks
like, every one wants?

Imagine


[View Quote]

Jul 7, 2003, 12:00am

IP addresses change all the time too.

But a user account with a proper password and a verified email address
is a user account with a proper password and a verified email address.

[View Quote]

Aug 13, 2003, 8:24pm

Right now I'm banned by IP and MAC address from mutation, but thanks to
proxy masks and MAC address spoofers I could easily get in if I wanted to. I
also happen to be banned from mutation due to a proxy mask, MAC address
spoofer, and a stolen cit (-:
[View Quote]

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