Tourists+No Pics=Citizens Revolt (Community)

Tourists+No Pics=Citizens Revolt // Community

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the lady

Apr 27, 2003, 2:45am
People have maintained their citizenship through no tourists, to higher
prices and probably much more than I or anyone else could ever imagine to
show how much they love this place. It is a lot of suffering and is very
hard to watch. I keep hoping the company will be nice and put a checkmark
in the box to allow tourists in. But after seeing the results of 3.4 Beta,
I know not only will that not happen, but it will only get worse for people
here. The only hope for change is for a community effort......Citizens
Revolt.

We need to form a group. Telegram me if you are interested. (I already
some have interest.) And to those who want to only spy on our revolt by
telegramming me and telling me you are interested, let me say, I am very
familiar with how George Washington won the Revolution. We will See who
outspies who. By the way, we need some spy experts too.

We've been patient, and kind enough and it's time for Change to happen. I
understand that for now we can't have tourists building in public AWI
worlds, but we ask they be let in to talk with us at GZ and other places.

We ask to be able to select objects by right clicking on them and copying
object name and description in the box.

We ask for compromise and more accountability from both sides regarding
jpgs.

Again, I can't stress enough how this needs to be a community effort
Citizens Revolt. One person can't do it, two people can't do it, not even
three. It must be the Community!!

A copy of this was mailed to JP (Cryonics) and if he replies, I will post it
to the group.

maki

Apr 27, 2003, 3:15am
LOL!

maki
[View Quote] hit insert and the object properties box is all yours.

> We ask for compromise and more accountability from both sides regarding
> jpgs.

just use one of those referer scripts, awtaz.net/p.php.

just in

Apr 27, 2003, 3:26am
Hey people....

I don't understand what the problem is? Is it unique to Australia that
every internet account comes with a standard web space? Why then do people
insist on using free web sites when they already have space paid for? Maybe
its people are just unaware that its there or they don't know how to ask
their ISP for instructions on using it.

*shakes head in wonder*

~ Justin

PS - I am talking about storing the pics you use in AW - not world hosting
or object path hosting.

[View Quote]

dion

Apr 27, 2003, 3:48am
Not all ISPs offer it and those that do are reluctant to give it to you.
You must ask and most of the time, they'll refer you to a free server before
giving you their space. When you do get a login, it's often extremely
limited in space and bandwidth. I know I get space from Charter Cable but
it's like 500k and there's less than 5mb of bandwidth. It's just utterly
useless.

-Dion

[View Quote] I don't understand what the problem is? Is it unique to Australia that
every internet account comes with a standard web space? Why then do people
insist on using free web sites when they already have space paid for? Maybe
its people are just unaware that its there or they don't know how to ask
their ISP for instructions on using it.

*shakes head in wonder*

~ Justin

PS - I am talking about storing the pics you use in AW - not world hosting
or object path hosting.

[View Quote]

lord perception

Apr 27, 2003, 5:00am
[View Quote] Urgh, only 500k? 5Mb of bandwidth Only? At least I now know why these free
websites from hosts such as Geocities, Angelfire, Tripod proliferated in
numbers. I was wondering why people would sign up to them and make their
visitors fight awful pop up advertising and banner eyesores just to view a
page. :oP

Most ISP around NZ give you about 10 MB with your internet account and at
one stage I think my own ISP was dishing them out for free to anyone

ananas

Apr 27, 2003, 6:35am
The new HTTP header fields help to protect.

They help to protect artwork on your own object path as well
as use of free web space that is against the terms of usage
of free web space providers. The idea for this HTTP referrer
information even came from wishlist, from people who wanted
more protection for their artwork, wanted to stop parasitic
use of their object path or just wanted to send different
informations depending on the world you're visiting.

It is just good manner to identify yourself when you download
stuff. Traffic causes costs.

If you want to blame someone, blame the web space providers
but AW did the correct thing by adding those informations.
They do what every web browser does and adapted to the common
standards.

From RFC2616 :

> The Referer[sic] request-header field allows the client to
> specify, for the server's benefit, the address (URI) of the
> resource from which the Request-URI was obtained

Further down (same RFC) you find :

> For example, a browser client could have a toggle switch for
> browsing openly/anonymously, which would respectively enable/
> disable the sending of Referer and From information.

but this recommendation refers to the protection of secure
documents and does not apply here, an AW world is not a secure
document. You still have the option to filter the referrer
yourself, using a local proxy.


[View Quote]

strike rapier

Apr 27, 2003, 7:08am
*Bangs head against wall* Gahhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now your *really* beginning to take too much reading time...

I know, why don't you go and spend $1,000,000 and get a brand new universe,
a huge several TB server to give everyone who registers free webspace and
infinite bandwidth and transfer.

And hell your outspying who??? There are people in Active Worlds who have
spent ages learning to investigate such things and will probably end up
knowing more than you! Gawd get with the Programme

Jesuz if you actually bothered to read other posts you will know that
Community Revolts like this accomplish *nothing* unless you can hit AWI hard
with facts and figures why its good to their business model, Rick and JP are
not idiots if they think something would be globally beneficial and the
benefits outweigh the costs then there is a pretty high probability that
they will try it, I just cant see that being the case.... your not even
talking about having it for a finite time, your talking keeping this
webspace *forever* and that's just plain ridiculous. If its for file hosting
what can AWI even recover from it? Sites like google display adds but you
may have noticed adds don't appear when you use a downloaded file from
geocties in Active Worlds.

And if you bothered to ask you would know all you have to do to copy
actions, is to right click the object, tap insert to copy it and now you can
copy and paste its actions etc, the building inspector will annihilate the
object for you once you have unselected it.

- Mark

[View Quote]

light form

Apr 27, 2003, 9:07am
*cough* while we are on the subject of buying new Universes...

http://groups.msn.com/ActiveWorlds/universereport.msnw

LF

kah

Apr 27, 2003, 9:10am
"maki" <maki at awgate.com> wrote in
news:3eab677b at server1.Activeworlds.com:

> just use one of those referer scripts, awtaz.net/p.php.

To still see old pics you'll need to use a proxying device and remove the
header locally. Also, I hope that site has a lot of transfer available :-))

KAH

kah

Apr 27, 2003, 9:12am
"dion" <Dion at digevo.net> wrote in
news:3eab6f2a$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com:

> Not all ISPs offer it and those that do are reluctant to give it to
> you. You must ask and most of the time, they'll refer you to a free
> server before giving you their space. When you do get a login, it's
> often extremely limited in space and bandwidth. I know I get space
> from Charter Cable but it's like 500k and there's less than 5mb of
> bandwidth. It's just utterly useless.

Over here you get something like 50MB and a fair amount of transfer from
most ISPs (you usually have to activate it, but they do that automatically
for you).

KAH

kah

Apr 27, 2003, 9:21am
"ananas" <vha at oct31.de> wrote in news:3EAB9635.32EF8846 at oct31.de:

> The new HTTP header fields help to protect.
>
> They help to protect artwork on your own object path as well
> as use of free web space that is against the terms of usage
> of free web space providers. The idea for this HTTP referrer
> information even came from wishlist, from people who wanted
> more protection for their artwork, wanted to stop parasitic
> use of their object path or just wanted to send different
> informations depending on the world you're visiting.
>
> It is just good manner to identify yourself when you download
> stuff. Traffic causes costs.
>
> If you want to blame someone, blame the web space providers
> but AW did the correct thing by adding those informations.
> They do what every web browser does and adapted to the common
> standards.

I disagree with you, it was not the right thing to do. There is no way
the browser can generate a correct Referer header, as locations in AW
aren't URIs. The definition of the header is as follows:
Referer = "Referer" ":" ( absoluteURI | relativeURI )

How would AW generate a valid, real absolute or relative URI? Not
possible. So the choice of this header was wrong. Since no headers in the
standard applies to AW's case, they should've invented their own (X-AW-
location or whatnot).

You're still identifying yourself with your IP address, AW never hid it.

I want some way of identifying where the request came from (more
specifically the world, for the reasons you stated), but not in an
incorrect way that also destroys a lot of property from the last seven
years.

KAH

ananas

Apr 27, 2003, 10:00am
Nothing wrong about inventing an URI

It is a protocol identifier like http:, ftp:, telnet:, mailto:
gopher:, mk: and so on and as they invented the protocol they
can make an identifier for it too.

All companies create URI protocol prefixes for all kinds of web
browser plugins (especially the streaming ones). Why should AW
not do something similar?

What they now could add is a registry handler for this protocol,
that allows urlmon.dll to start the AW browser in the referenced
world. This is the last tweak that is needed to create a working
URI for the desired environment (windows).


And it allows the providers of free web space to take care for
their terms of usage, which cannot be wrong at all. If they
give away something for free they have any right to restrict
the usage. Most of them disallow using their ressources just
for storage, they pay for the traffic and the banners bring
this investments back. Free web space is a business and like
any other business they have to make money.

This is how it works.


The only thing that AW destroyed was the ability to do something
that should not have been done anyway.


[View Quote]

carolann

Apr 27, 2003, 1:04pm
Hmmm, I also have Charter Cable and have 10MB of space. You might want to
check into that. It says right on their website:
"10MB limit is hard-coded into the system.........."

[View Quote]

dion

Apr 27, 2003, 1:48pm
oo, did they upgrade it? I'll have to ask them. :-)

Thanks,
-Dion

[View Quote] [View Quote]

john

Apr 27, 2003, 7:39pm
Strike: its Ads and Ad not Adds and Add :-)

[View Quote]

m0e

Apr 27, 2003, 8:07pm
so far ... I have seen ppl talking about the jpg issue, and for the most
part, I can see both side of the issue, so will not "revolt" over this
issue :-)

Tourist are the life blood of our community, without them, we will not
grow.
sure they can be a major pain, but having done 4 years as a PK, I never
grew tired of helping a tourist.

for the past year+, tourist have not been able to enter some of the AWI
worlds.
because of this, some ppl have left, and the GZ's of these worlds have
for the most part become empty :-(

part of the experience of being a tourist was/is exploring what others
have built, and learning from this part of the history created by those
who have managed to find this place we call AW.

if a way could be found for the tourist to return to the worlds owned by
AWI, even if it meant that they could not build on them, I might become
more inclined to do more than lurk the gate ... lol ... more like move
my lurking back to 'yellow' ... and stop being a pest to the GK's :-)

the bottom line in this is .... tourist should be able to travel to any
of the 'Public' worlds, and if a private world owner is willing to pay,
to their worlds as well

I'm tired of seeing dead gz's, and overworked GK's

m0e


[View Quote] >People have maintained their citizenship through no tourists, to higher
>prices and probably much more than I or anyone else could ever imagine to
>show how much they love this place. It is a lot of suffering and is very
>hard to watch. I keep hoping the company will be nice and put a checkmark
>in the box to allow tourists in. But after seeing the results of 3.4 Beta,
>I know not only will that not happen, but it will only get worse for people
>here. The only hope for change is for a community effort......Citizens
>Revolt.
>
>We need to form a group. Telegram me if you are interested. (I already
>some have interest.) And to those who want to only spy on our revolt by
>telegramming me and telling me you are interested, let me say, I am very
>familiar with how George Washington won the Revolution. We will See who
>outspies who. By the way, we need some spy experts too.
>
>We've been patient, and kind enough and it's time for Change to happen. I
>understand that for now we can't have tourists building in public AWI
>worlds, but we ask they be let in to talk with us at GZ and other places.
>
>We ask to be able to select objects by right clicking on them and copying
>object name and description in the box.
>
>We ask for compromise and more accountability from both sides regarding
>jpgs.
>
>Again, I can't stress enough how this needs to be a community effort
>Citizens Revolt. One person can't do it, two people can't do it, not even
>three. It must be the Community!!
>
>A copy of this was mailed to JP (Cryonics) and if he replies, I will post it
>to the group.
>
>
>
>

swe

Apr 27, 2003, 9:34pm
you understood him right? THEN STOP COMPLAINING!!! >_<

-SWE Wu :)

[View Quote]

light form

Apr 28, 2003, 2:06am
Well, if you move back to yellow anytime soon, tell me, because I need some
more builds to feature in the newsletter. Banging in random coords just isnt
cutting it anymore.

LF

swe

Apr 28, 2003, 6:29am
use ptolemy's mapper, i remeber seeing it somewhere. anything that looks
nice from the top should like nice from below aswell! :D

-SWE Wu

[View Quote]

jerme

Apr 28, 2003, 11:42am
I totally agree with andras here.

I specificly remember making a post to the Wishlist group asking for this.
Though my idea was a litle indepth, they implimented the basics of it.

The fact that the AWBrowser now *correctly* identifies itself to other
servers is not a bad thing in and of itself. It just takes a little
adjusting to and forces you to find a decent web host.

-Jeremy

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jeremy Booker - Owner / Webmaster
JTech Web Systems
www.JTechWebSystems.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about
itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." -Mathew 5:34
[View Quote]

light form

Apr 28, 2003, 2:02pm
Got a URL?

LF

swe

Apr 28, 2003, 3:45pm
emm, jer, he's ananas not andras :)
and i also agree! this (as soon as its slightly improved) will be the answer
to all those security problems everyone was bitchin about!

-SWE

[View Quote]

swe

Apr 28, 2003, 6:14pm
oops, turns out he didnt make one for yellow, thou theres on for mars,
cofmeta and atlantic. oh, and thebeans! :)


[View Quote]

jerme

Apr 29, 2003, 12:39am
sorry.. didn't look closely.. lol

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jeremy Booker - Owner / Webmaster
JTech Web Systems
www.JTechWebSystems.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about
itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own." -Mathew 5:34
[View Quote]

light form

Apr 29, 2003, 2:03am
What has he got against Yellow!

LF

lord perception

Apr 29, 2003, 2:23am
[View Quote] If I recall correctly Yellow has bot access disabled, in which case he won't
be able to get his mapper bot in to map it.

light form

Apr 29, 2003, 3:31pm
I had not known that, not having any real interest in bots since Prestons
went out.

LF

rossyboy

May 2, 2003, 1:26pm
Wow really? O_O over here in the UK the ISPs actually advertise it as a
feature... how good it is depends on the ISP of course.

"dion" <Dion at digevo.net> wrote this
(news:3eab6f2a$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com) in community on 27 Apr 2003:

> Not all ISPs offer it and those that do are reluctant to give it to
> you. You must ask and most of the time, they'll refer you to a free
> server before giving you their space.

codewarrior

Jul 5, 2003, 4:09pm
I'm a newbie to AW, but as a world owner, I have no interest whatsoever in
allowing *totally anonymous* people to enter my world for any reason.

I dont' care one whit wether they paid or not. Give them free accounts..
whatever.... the economics of it are up to AWI, but noone comes into my
world with a cit number of '0'.... period.

No sane website will allow you to post without *verifying* your email
address, but anyone can come into AW and cause trouble by supplying a fake
email address and I just won't have that.

Yes.. I was a tourist too once, but I gave a valid email address and would
have quite happily waited to reply to a confirmation emal before trying out
the AW software.

The concept of tourists is a good one, but the way it is implemented (i.e.
you can't tell tourists apart) could use a fresh look.

strike rapier

Jul 5, 2003, 4:21pm
*Raises an eyebrow* Please check the date before bringing back up The Ladys
rubbish :)

- Mark

[View Quote]

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