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Mar 18, 2003, 10:21am

WHOOOOO HOOOOOO!!! you GO girl!!! And in getting back to topic... this is a
PERFECT example of why political discussions should not take place at the
Gate. It's easy for some people to say censorship at the gate is not
necessary, however I wonder why they never stay long at the gate, if they
visit that area at all. One or two visits there can not begin to enlighten a
person about why censorship is needed. I highly recommend you go at least 4
times a week for about 2 months. Get fully immersed in the whole idea of
what the Gate is all about. And THEN you will understand why censorship is
needed. The whole idea of AWGate is to welcome new tourists and allow them
time and freedom to get to know how to move around a bit. The G rating is to
allow people of ALL ages to visit AW. And yes, children as young as 8 come
to visit with their parents. Not everyone is expecting to see foul language
or sexual content in AW chat. Imagine being welcomed to AW at the Gate,
finding out that it is family oriented and then some idiot comes in and
propositions you to do things to his body??? Not a good impression. Neither
is a political debate, especially now. Whether you berate President Bush,
Saddam Hussein, or the french, you will most likely insult someone. So why
do it in front of people you just met and why do it while in the same breath
of welcoming new tourists to the program????



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Mar 18, 2003, 11:57am

Very well said {{{{{{{{{{{{ Lioness }}}}}}}}}}

AWDebate is for debates....

To quote a few of my fav macros...
1.You have to realize that here at The Gate...Gk's are trying to help new
ppl get acclimated to the software...and have fun doing it.

2.The primary purpose of AWGate is to provide a helpful, friendly entrance
to Activeworlds for all .

3. Anyone entering The Gate with the intent to insult, hurt , or cause
trouble will be ejected without warning...unless we feel like giving you a
hard time first .:)>

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Mar 18, 2003, 11:59am

and you lioness... GO GIRL!!


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Mar 18, 2003, 1:58pm

A civil debate? Not quite. I never said that it was a flame war, but to say that it was a proper debate is just moronic.

If I recall correctly, even you lost your "civility" on several occasions.

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Mar 18, 2003, 2:04pm

First of all I said sorry, I noticed I was replying in another thread I
thought it was.
Secondly, I do not hate America or americans. It is nothing specific towards
that country. If any other country would act as USA does, I would dislike
that also/instead.
I know many american people are against the politic of Bush; and all credit
to them.
Why repeat it over and over again, maybe for same reason some preachers
preach and preach beliving they might save a soul.

We cannot be 100% sure that Bush do not read this NG ( assuming he knows how
to read), but I would not be surprised if CIA, FBI or some other instance
would keep on eye on what is written in NGs ( maybe not in AW tho).

I am glad you have done something to let your goverment know you dislike
their actions. I am aware that if one or 2 people protest it will make no
difference, but if 20 million do it, they might have to start listening. And
if my preaching even open the eyes of one person I concider it a winning. I
am also aware that I piss off a lot of people, but I have been silent for
some 30 years, never said anything bad to anyone and what do I have ?
Nothing.

I have never claimed I know anything better than anyone else, actually I am
just a dumb fuck, but still I belive I should have the right to have an
opinion, even a strong one. Sometimes one needs to excaggerate (spellcheck)
to get something started.

What comes to the war itself, it is not the war that is my biggest concern,
but the total ignorance toward UN. I am just scared it will set an bad
example for other countries. The war again will not be over in 3 days, it
will take much longer, there will be oilfields burning and both people and
nature suffering; but worst of all will be the revenge attacks that will
mostly hurt the american civilianz. You can call me anti-american if you
want, but I just would not like to see civilianz get killed in Iraq nor in
USA. So my reason for beeing against Bush and those supporting him, is
actually not the fact I would hate USA, but because i like the people in
USA.

I have written e-mails to our goverment in matters that are important for
me, I can write an e-mail to Bush also, but I doubt he will read it and
contact me for consultation *g*. If Bush had some brains he would not turn
USA against Europe, but it almost seems he want USA ( those supporting the
war) to hate both Germany and France.

Drac
carolann <carolannh at charter.net> kirjoitti
viestissä:3e76c32b at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> You know what? If you want to vent your spleen on what should be the
object
> of your hate, get out a paper and pen and write to the president and major
> leaders of the US. I did it, I wasn't pleasant, (it was only related to
the
> war, I still love my country) and guess what? They still haven't arrested
> me. I'm sure they didn't say, "Oh oh, CarolAnn says no to war, lets call
it
> off!" but I still added my feelings to those of millions of others. I
guess
> we can do that here. Do you think it won't do any good or won't make you
> feel as good? What good is saying the same thing over and over and over
> again in here? By now, there isn't an AW newsgroup reader who doesn't know
> that you hate Americans, America or at least everything American no matter
> what they do, think or say. It has to be directed at us because I'm sure
> Bush doesn't read these posts. If that isn't true, then why keep saying
the
> same thing over and over again? Say it once, say it twice, even say it 3
> times but not every other post in every topic. If it changed things
globally
> I'd back you up-but it hasn't. Even in the USA we don't directly make
those
> decisions. Do you know of a country that allows individuals to call a halt
> to these kind of actions because they learned it was wrong by reading a
> bunch of internet news group postings? Your point has been made and hasn't
> done a thing but insult a lot of people with many different view points,
> maybe even some in agreement with your war views, but probably not your
> limited views on the US in general. You apparently know more than our
> government, our news services, (the ones that many heads of state (etc etc
> etc) from around the world have no problems speaking with, stupid morons I
> guess), and you apparently know more and are wiser than 285,000,000
American
> citizens. Why waste your time trying to teach the naive and evil masses?
Go
> right to the source and leave us to our wicked ways.
>
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Mar 18, 2003, 3:12pm

I really know you personally don't, but sometimes it sounds like it just by
the wording and I worry that will encourage others to forget we are
individuals first (usually) and in here we are fighting each other and maybe
really are wasting our free time (yep-me included, but I came here to make
friends, not enemies, and this subject keeps getting in the way.). To keep
on topic, for AW purposes newcomers sure shouldn't start out feeling
hated-or as an instant challenger.

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Mar 18, 2003, 3:12pm

Drac get your head out of the sand.... if you keep shouting this stance for the world to see....they will truly see who you are......No Laws are being broken by Bush.....read the reslolutions your refering to.....they have a statement that allows use of force on Iraq upon noncompliance.....we(the US) are the only ones with balls enough to make Iraq own up to it's ways..... i know i know it's hard for you to swallow but try it'll make you feel better about yourself. lol

LOL


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Mar 18, 2003, 3:22pm

But Drac the thing your missing most is that the USA(citizens) do not HATE as much as you seem to think.
We do not HATE the French nor Germans....we ARE very disappointed in their STANCE...not there thoughts on the subject..
IMHO the French did a very wrong thing by ANNOUNCING they would VETO any resolutions we(US & Britain) put forth. That is not very fair dealings. I think there should be a rule that no country can announce a forth comming veto until a resolution has been forwarded.... this type of "deplomacy" by the French is a crock....and a signal from the French that they are weak. And shows the UN is not what it's supposed to be.......... UNITED.


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Mar 18, 2003, 3:25pm

france said they would only veto any resolution that has a war ultimatum .

Mar 18, 2003, 3:26pm

[View Quote] OK, military intervention does not equal war. They'll still veto it. This is the
kind of action that should get you removed from the UN security council.

--Bowen--

Mar 18, 2003, 3:39pm

its their vote , so they can vote how they like

Mar 18, 2003, 6:55pm

Here's a good draft for US citizens, just fill in the actual color :

http://www.bvfp.org/BV4P%20pstcrds%201-03.doc

(found on http://www.bvfp.org/ through http://www.war-times.org/)


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Mar 18, 2003, 9:18pm

As for me I believe if a person needs help in drafting such a letter for any
worthwhile cause it's good if help is available, and that is a good one. But
I did write for myself what I felt was most important and from my gut (from
"my heart or soul" might sound more feminine but just doesn't fit what I
feel about the possible terrible deaths of anyone's young and innocent or
old and feeble or anyone in between, ours or "theirs") and I guess in a huge
country a person has to take one step at a time and have realistic
expectations. I also have such letters for people to refer to, mostly from a
humanitarian perspective. Of course that postcard link says saving money by
not going to war will free it for other things, but peace for the sake of
peace is nice. Peace (as in-no war, realistically not always the same
though) when I wrote it was, and is at this time, my primary thought. I'm
not minimizing even one of the other issues, and I'm sure many countries
face some of the same social issues and they have to be addressed too of
course. But I think right now if people were to write or protest for a
cause, one thing at a time might stand out better and this is very critical,
time wise.

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Mar 19, 2003, 12:56am

Guys, please do everyone a favor and move the discussion to the "American
Support" thread in general.discussion.

Chris

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Mar 19, 2003, 12:58am

:) I hinted at that in my post. I didn't say I wasn't at fault for
slipping. But most of the time, it was civil.

What's your definition of a proper and civil debate?

SW Chris

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Mar 19, 2003, 1:10am

I wasn't advocating any opinion whatsoever in that post. But in my opinion,
and I'm assuming being "jumped at" means being yelled at in caps or being
warned of ejection in a threatening manner by a Gatekeeper, in that
particular case it wasn't a productive environment.

The reason why the word censorship is a token word that people use is
because it has such a negative stigma attached to it. But censorship's
definition is only to limit the expression of something. And there are
different levels of doing that. Like all words, they weren't originally
intended to bring either positive or negative feelings to those who hear it.

For instance, the anti-libel laws in most first-world nations are a form of
censorship. And that leads to a positive and productive environment. But
there is a higher level of censorship that exists in most dictatorships.
The free press is censored from saying anything bad about its government.
That is a higher level of censorship. Do you see where I'm going with this?

If everyone here is actually serious about moving the level of censorship to
one where it leads to a productive and positive atmosphere, then you're
going to have to go talk to the head Gatekeeper, and you're going to have to
be armed with plenty of documented cases where Gatekeepers have abused their
power to eject. And you're going to have to approach the head GK with
respect and perhaps even a little flattery to get your point across and
advocate a position that is fair and equitable. Disbanding the Gatekeepers
or disallowing their use to eject anyone at anytime are not good positions
to take!

To my knowledge nobody's done this yet.

Chris

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Mar 19, 2003, 1:32am

I definitely don't think the GKs should be disbanded, but I don't think they
should be allowed to eject whenever they want. I definitely wouldn't have a
good impression of AW after seeing some of the macros they are using - it's
simply too much.

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Mar 19, 2003, 1:58am

Agreed. :)

SW Chris

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Mar 19, 2003, 4:53am

Any reason and any method would be fine at this time. It's
already too late to change things but not too late to show
Bush how wrong it is what he is doing.

I have choosen those links because they have a few more
interesting things to say though.


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Mar 19, 2003, 7:05am

Useless to go on since we are no lawyers, but an attack is an attack.
Especially if the Un "troops" (inspectors) has to flee an attack because one
country is about to attack, even tho the security council has not given
permission.

Drac
binarybud <leo at realPANTStourvision.com> kirjoitti
viestissä:3e775365$3 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
> Drac get your head out of the sand.... if you keep shouting this
stance for the world to see....they will truly see who you are......No Laws
are being broken by Bush.....read the reslolutions your refering to.....they
have a statement that allows use of force on Iraq upon
noncompliance.....we(the US) are the only ones with balls enough to make
Iraq own up to it's ways..... i know i know it's hard for you to
swallow but try it'll make you feel better about yourself. lol
>
> LOL
>
>
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Mar 19, 2003, 12:05pm

My definition for a proper and civil debate is one without insults and downright bickering :P

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Mar 19, 2003, 12:29pm

Time will tell that Bush is doing the exact right thing at this time.


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Mar 19, 2003, 12:30pm

Who the hell died and left you NG god, Chris? Just ignore us if you don't like it.


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Mar 19, 2003, 12:30pm

so in a year those thousands of dead ppl will be forgotten and it will be
all good ?

Mar 19, 2003, 12:36pm

LOL your making things up again want me to point this out each time you do it? hows about talking facts not dreams?

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Mar 19, 2003, 12:42pm

oh so in this war no one will be killed ?

Mar 19, 2003, 12:46pm

did i say that? hmmm your dreaming out loud again joker.

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Mar 19, 2003, 1:10pm

so being being killed is making up things , and dreaming huh ?

Mar 19, 2003, 1:22pm

sure is...especially if it has not happend yet...lol

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Mar 19, 2003, 1:53pm

duh ?

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