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Nov 8, 2002, 2:25pm

Dear Activeworlds Community,

I am no longer going to be in the advisory status for the Cys. Nor have
any involvement with them or any community organization which lacks legal
advisory.
The reason for this decision involves laws forming on the Internet.
When E N Z O announced the rules of world ratings that will be put into
effect, it opened my eyes to what can and can't happen legally regarding the
Cys.
I am absolutely sure that E N Z O (with this move) is doing it to follow
rules that a company has to follow now days on the Internet, and thoroughly
understand the need.
It is a VERY good thing that this was brought to our attention.
The Cys are made up of volunteers who possess talents in many fields to
bring entertainment to all of us.
Unfortunately, they do not have on their staff a licensed lawyer.
My final advise to the teams is to not continue unless they can secure a
lawyer who is willing to read any content on the Cy pages, advise to any
content there and during ceremonies, and to be on a binder for any legal
needs.
Seriously folks, if you are engaging in anything on the Net, please make
sure you are covered legally on any content.
I for one do not want to have a paper delivered to me stating I am
facing a lawsuit for not knowing the laws.
Should the Cy team decide to continue, bless them for wanting to make
sure the Cys continue, but I hope to God they cover themselves legally.
I am hoping this post will not be followed with arguments or twisting of
my intentions. Please just read it and understand.

Thank You,

Antigone

P.S. No I haven't lost my smileys, I just want folks to take this
seriously:)

Nov 8, 2002, 5:26pm

Would someone like to explain how a virtual Community that exists only in a
software program that makes it possible to create virtual 3d worlds can be
held legally responsible for a virtual Community Awards event that was
started by a citizen of said Community and has since been run by other
citizens of that same Community???

ENZO, who owns most of the company that owns this software, is evidently
satisfied that there are no legal "entanglements" for the company in the
existance of a Cy Awards event, so why would anyone think that the "long arm
of the law" could possibly control, influence or extract punishment for what
this Community does with said event???

I admit that I was very worried that the company could get in trouble for
allowing the existance Adult ONLY worlds and content in what is advertised
as Family Oriented but if ENZO is not worried, then why should I??? I
don't think the Cy Committee has anything to worry about other than
regaining the Community's trust...

That leaves us what ENZO is saying::: The Cy Awards belong to the
Community!!! It's up to us to make them something we can be proud of...

So we have to decide what "face" we want to present to any that view this
Community, whether we view it as a citizen or a visiting tourist views it or
even if it's being viewed as a subject that draws the attention of news
media or by college students wanting to do a study on VR communities and
behavior...

The Cy Awards very much help to put the "face" on our Community that others
view and judge us by... If you want to see what a society values just look
at who they bestow awards on and what what those awards are for...
Judging by the repercussions from certain awards this round, I'd say the Cy
Awards failed to reflect the values of the majority of the Community...
There are more members of this Community than the ones who put in a vote,
you know...

As to the issue of whether or not Adult ONLY nominees should be allowed to
participate in the Cy Awards; JohnnyB's post under the heading of 'A Simple
Solution to the Cy Issue' follows my feelings pretty closely... Let me
paste here what I feel are the main points (with punctuation added/deleted
for better readability):::

""I feel that if you decide to live an 'adult/gorean ' lifestyle here,
that's your choice but when you make that choice, you must realize that
it's not in line with the rest of the community and will never be so.
Therefore, if you wish to be included in the community, you have no choice
but to give and take.""

""It's just not realistic to consider disallowing underage access to the CY
awards, committees, etc. As all have said, this is about community and
although the people in the adult/gor communities are still very much a part
of the 'ActiveWorlds' community, their decision to participate in an adult,
online lifestyle here precludes them from being included in certain
things.""

""Some may feel this unfair but life is unfair sometimes. Some may call this
discriminatory, racist, bigoted, whatever you like, but the essence of this
is the fact that if you DO participate in an 'adult' lifestyle here, is your
CHOICE. No one has forced you to partake of this. You decided and you
must accept the consequences and/or benefits OF your decision; plain and
simple.""

""You simply can't call this bigoted or racist. You have no choice if
you're black, white, too short, too poor, too whatever. If you're singled
out for such things, it is very wrong and just plain unacceptable. (But,)
You made the choice to do the things you do here and to say that you
shouldnt be discriminated against or
singled out is just not realistic. YOU made the choice. YOU must live with
the repercussions."".
------------------------

There is more that can be pointed out but I'll leave that unsaid
until/unless it becomes necessary to further elaborate... Thank you for
reading this post... *hugs*


[View Quote]

Nov 8, 2002, 5:48pm

:)

Hey, Al Gore invented the information superhighway, can he be held
responsible for all the porn?

If I go down Al is going with me!

E
[View Quote]

Nov 8, 2002, 6:12pm

Careful... some people might take you up on that if Al's slated to go with
you. ;)

Republicanly yours,
SW Chris

[View Quote]

Nov 8, 2002, 6:20pm

Wasnt it the guy who invented TCP/IP that invented the information superhighway? (Known to people who dont believe American spin as the Internet) Btw E N Z O.. how would you know about all the porn?

- Mark

- Mark
[View Quote]

Nov 8, 2002, 6:21pm

[View Quote] I think IPX was the original data transfer system? IPv4 as we know it today came
later. (maybe?)

--Bowen--

Nov 8, 2002, 6:46pm

There are also more members of this Community than the ones who debate
here in the NGs, and as someone pointed out in an earlier post, (if it
hasn't been deleted already :P) you don't hear from the people who are
happy with how things are going, so naturally it sounds as if the
"entire community" is up in arms over this when in actuality, it could
only be a small minority.

I think the only way we're every really going to resolve this whole
thing is by including the *entire* community (or at least a sizable
majority) in this discussion. One possible way to do that would be for
"Everyone's Favorite Troll", JBELL, to crack open AWDebate and invite
everyone, adults and teens alike, (or at the very least, representatives
from each "group") in to debate the issue. And with a little help from
AWI in terms of advertising the event, I think we could all come to some
sort of agreement amongst the majority on how to handle the next CYs. If
not, then once all sides of the argument have been heard, they could
narrow the possible solutions down to the top 3 and have everyone vote
on it. Either way, I think it's certainly a more democratic option than
having the vocal NG minority decide the issue for the rest of us.

[View Quote]
--
Goober King
We may find some use for AWDebate yet! :D
gooberking at utn.cjb.net

Nov 8, 2002, 7:15pm

How can you miss it?

E


[View Quote]

Nov 8, 2002, 7:15pm

I don't think it matters how many want something , its what laws say must be
done. I don't think a judge would say "O its ok because its in aw" The added
parental controls that will be added is a step in providing what many
software houses are providing as standered if any software is rated beyond
child.

As I originally suggested two awards one for adult and one for everything
else.

These are issues that where overlooked this year in haste to get adult
worlds in.


[View Quote]

Nov 8, 2002, 7:36pm

This is NOT a democracy!!! It is a program owned by a company whose
stated guidelines should be followed by the users of the program... THEY
have said so!!!

That the company rarely chooses to exercise their ability to enforce
compliance with stated guidelines does NOT mean that a Community
representative group like the Cy Awards shouldn't have to abide by the
guidelines!!!

Will the PeaceKeepers be next to stop complying with the guidelines stated
by the company who owns this program??? Will the GateKeepers follow
suit??? They and their actions are all representative not only of the
company they exist under but also of the Community they are a part of...
The same is true of the Cy Awards...

This issue does NOT need an open debate where one side or the other competes
to make a showing of how many like-minded ppl they can get together in one
place at one time!!! What needs to be done is to put the Cy Awards back
inline with the stated guidelines and make sure they stay there...

The company makes the Community possible and they have laid out some
guidelines they expect of the people that use their program to follow...
There is no question in my mind that any group that is set up to represent
the Community is also committed to, at the very least, follow the guidelines
set by the company that has made their existance possible...

BTW, ..... How long do you think the ppl that are "happy with how things
are going" (and therefore silent on many issues, not to mention unaware of
important issues) will remain happy if this universe is turned into an Adult
ONLY type universe???

Will they one day come to Alpha's GZ and see two avatars passing; one naked,
gagged and in chains being led another holding the end of the chain and a
whip???

Will we, the ppl that ARE aware of the issues at hand, allow that to have a
chance in being ActiveWorlds' future look??? The company has already
stated that the Community belongs to us so this is evidently up to us to
decide...


[View Quote]

Nov 8, 2002, 7:38pm

There isn't much hope of involving the "whole" community in a particular
issue, not unless you do something drastic like making the voting sheet pop
up as we log in or something. You'd be surprised by the amount of ppl that
just don't give a rats about the CYs or Gor.

I haven't filtered this thread simply because its amusing to see all the
broo ha ha about a adult world winning a prize, and then ppl raving about
"community"....... like there isn't room for individuals in a community,
entry is subject to conformity, and it is the job of every moralistic right
thinking community member to tell kids where they can not go, because you
all know better than the kid's parents.

Ya mob of ruddy wallys LOL



[View Quote]

Nov 8, 2002, 8:41pm

Don't feel much involved, eh, kellee??? Well that's fine but how about not
putting labels on ppl that feel quite involved... :o) You might feel
different if you actually understood the real issue that is being aired;
something your post here doesn't seem to indicate...

You are right about there not being much hope in involving the "whole"
community in a particular issue so I guess that is why some of us feel that
the issue needs to be brought down to the very basics of what is asked of
users of this program and definately by keeping groups that reflect or
represent this Community inline with the basics...

Thanks..
*hugs*

[View Quote]

Nov 8, 2002, 9:05pm

I thought the point was to air an opinion rather than "putting labels on
ppl" such as " you don't understand the issues being aired"

I am as much involved in "Community" as anyone, I just don't feel it is my
god given right to forbid others from anything simply because it doesn't
comply with my standards of morality.

And before you say ANYTHING about my not understanding .....I will point out
I am a mother of two boys, the older of which would not be adverse to
seeking out a bit of "naughty" internet viewing here and there. It is my job
to censor his activities as I see fit and no one else's.

Porn sites, magazines and other activities are a click away from most young
teens fingers, you cannot protect them from it all except by bringing them
up correctly, and endowing them with a respect for women and a respect for
other human beings rights, both to say what they think and to enter and be
judged for CY awards, if thats their bag.

You cant teach that if you don't practice it.

And besides, I wasn't labelling anyone by name. Just a generality that you
saw fit to claim.

ya wally :o))


[View Quote]

Nov 8, 2002, 9:28pm

You're going to need some serious moderation in there if you want everyone
to be heard. "The speaker calls upon the respected Senator from
Delaware..."

Chris

[View Quote]

Nov 8, 2002, 9:38pm

Well, the entire issue being discussed is not just about morality. Btw I
agree with you entirely on that part of it, kellee. One part is what
parents might think if they saw adult worlds being promoted and awarded for
their efforts. And yet another is that because of ENZO's declaration that
the CYAwards world will be set at the world rating of its highest winner's
(or is it nominee's?) world rating, either way a part of this community is
going to be alienated; either kids whose parents monitor the content of
what they do, or adult worlds that allow x-rated activity to go on.

For the first time in its history, the CY Awards is being forced to define
just what makes up the community: people or worlds. If CyCom puts a cap on
the maximum rating of a world that is allowed to be nominated for a CY, then
every person can still participate, it is only the content of certain worlds
that will be excluded. But if they do not, then many kids will be excluded
from the CY's.

SW Chris



[View Quote]

Nov 8, 2002, 10:21pm

I think I more closely resemble a wallabe than a wally --- though at times
the difference is moot... :o)

Two points:::
1. Evidently nothing has been forbidden to exist in this VR universe hence
the existance of BDSM and other Adult ONLY worlds and content.
2. I thought this discussion had already gone past the stage of defining
"parental responsibilities" and had moved on to defining "community
responsibilities" and what that means here in AW...

*hugs* ya, ostrich chaser!!! LOL

[View Quote]

Nov 8, 2002, 11:26pm

A WALLY ( meaning A) is a cute name. Like if your child was to trip over
you would say "didn't ya look where you where going, ya wally?

A WALLY ( meaning B) The chimpanzee (Wally Walpamaur) on the paint adverts
that gets paint all over his face and his wife ( another dressed up
chimpanzee) says "Don't be such a wally, Wally"

A WALLABY is a marsupial that resembles a kangaroo

An EMU is an Australian long legged, flightless bird

An OSTRICH is an African flightless bird

A Kellee is some one that threw in her two cents worth on the entire issue
but NOW you've got me...... I gotta correct the spelling and meaning of
Wallaby!!!! THAT is important!

heheheh:o))


[View Quote]
*hugs* ya, ostrich chaser!!! LOL

Nov 9, 2002, 1:35am

Well, gee Daphne, that sounds like a democratic decision to me! If the
Company says that the Community belongs to us, then that means that
*we*, as a Community, decide, not the Company's guidelines. And since
it's obvious that the Company doesn't care enough about its own
guidelines to actually enforce them, then we can still make this a
democracy if we so choose. Sounds like AWI is finally taking the "hands
off" approach that its predecessors took oh so long ago...

[View Quote]
--
Goober King
And with good reason...
robrod at prism.net

Nov 9, 2002, 2:08am

and what about the points made in the rest of my post?? The part you so
nicely snipped of and seem to have ignored???

Good old Goob.. The Devil's Advocate!! A role you have told me more than
once that you assume... You do the part well, I must say.. *G*

[View Quote]

Nov 9, 2002, 3:00am

I do try. :)

[View Quote]
--
Goober King
Everyone's good at something... like whining, for instance...
robrod at prism.net

Nov 9, 2002, 9:42am

personally i feel that the gorean worlds would be bet suited to have there
own universe. if not no gorean world should be a open world and people would
have to be checked before they enter. i feel it important to protect out
kids from what we would prefier them not to see.

but one persons views on whats moraly right and wrong is diffrent from the
next. but the community needs to meet both ways on the matter instead of
standing back and pointing fingers at each other. there will allways be
people who do not approve of other people, but we can not as members of the
community say well you have no right being her so leave. thats just
discrimnation but they need to take steps to prevent people who shouldnt be
viewing there worlds from viewing them.

i have allways felt that if they want they should pull togehter and get a
gorean universe. cause it would make me alot more comfertable knowing that
as a memeber of a community group im not going to be trashed personally fo
the desisions of the group, mainly ina time when i have had to take a leave
of absence from the group to sort things out, but they have the right to be
here two. they have options and we have options but they are members of the
community if people choose to belive it or not.

coryashire


[View Quote]

Nov 9, 2002, 5:34pm

There *is* reason they call it Devil's advocate, you know... ;)

SW Chris

[View Quote]

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