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Cy Opening 7vrt Sept14 scrollback (Community)
Cy Opening 7vrt Sept14 scrollback // CommunitytalisanSep 15, 2002, 8:49pm
I am just a citizen who voted and happened to be at the Cy area in AW a
little early. You don't have to read this, reply to it, or anything. Please do not flame. This is being posted only for those interested who were not there. I personally feel the outcome was partially correct. I think Shan deserved the right for people to see his AV's. I know several there did not agree with the ultimate outcome. But please if you reply, keep it low key and topical. And whether you agree with how the Cy's are being handled or not, I sure hope you took the time to go vote anyhow. I know next year will be better. And of course, if you feel you can do a better job next year, volunteer! Thank you! Immigration Officer: Welcome to Alphaworld! :) Isn't it a beautiful day in the neighborhood? ShanKahtus: may I have the name of an attourney please OneSummer: yes ShanKahtus: that I have several weeks ShanKahtus: and this jerk will not come over here ShanKahtus: and put ShanKahtus: Shanwrks ShanKahtus: Several Avs on this sign OneSummer: I see Baron von Shrike: just as I won't change any of the other's signs. OneSummer: were they nominated ShanKahtus: I have a sign in here OneSummer: good Cyberwitch: hi everyone OneSummer: your nominations were posted OneSummer: hugssss CW ShanKahtus: but no world or location to view them OneSummer: where is your world at ShanKahtus: Cyberwitch Cyberwitch: they will be on the update page Kerstin: hi CW OneSummer: I am sure it will be posted ShanKahtus: I am a good froiend of WingOnite OneSummer: if they are nominated ShanKahtus: She introduced us Cyberwitch: Hi Shankahtus Kerstin: hi shan Cyberwitch: great ShanKahtus: after you got out of the hospital ShanKahtus: I made the Redwood Trees for her Cyberwitch: ohh thansk ShanKahtus: you are on the commitee Cyberwitch: ok need to get some things done with Kerstim OneSummer: ok CW Cyberwitch: yes we are trying to do our best ShanKahtus: Baron has a grudge against me and refuses to put my world name on my sign in here Cyberwitch: ok please let me explain ShanKahtus: I was told by gram that this world not be for several weeks yet Cyberwitch: the team before us should had made alot of corrections and didn't Baron von Shrike: just as I refuse to "update" any info provided after last saturday. ShanKahtus: I was preparing an entire world Shanwrks Kerstin: i'm sorry CW -- one moment -- phone ShanKahtus: to view my avs Cyberwitch: no please listen Guri Lady: :) Cyberwitch: no it was correct and anything that was done and enter was fro that time ShanKahtus: I received notification of my nomination on Last Sunday ShanKahtus: Telegram from HoneyB1, sent Sun Sep 8, 2002 1:16 AM: Cyberwitch: voting later took place but not changes on waht was done before Cyberwitch: that was to make sure things were update on like name coords etc not to ahve anything added from before Cyberwitch: jsut corrections not done on the page ShanKahtus: So am i wasting my time preparing Shanwrks? Cyberwitch: we were not going to change or add for people to do Cyberwitch: no but at the time someone enter you ShanKahtus: Baron is refusing to walk over here and add the name of my world Baron von Shrike: that is correct. Cyberwitch: was base at that time what it looked like not now ShanKahtus: and it could cost me thousands of Dollars Cyberwitch: u still have good chance base at that tiem Talisan: Cyberwitch, if Shan was nominated for his AV's, I certainly feel he should have a place for people to view them in. Linn: agreed Cyberwitch: thats why a person nom you in first placeif you change Cyberwitch: yes I agree ShanKahtus: and my sign is in this room Cyberwitch: if don't have a world that people see at the time we can on the update page add to it so people can see or the webpage ShanKahtus: how could i get any coords Baron by Saturday if i wasn't notified until Sunday? Cyberwitch: but for here BVS worked very hard Cyberwitch: and righ now bot set up as is Linn: sigh Cyberwitch: we can not chane it withourt messing everything up Cyberwitch: no fault of anyone ShanKahtus: his name is on this sign Linn: bot to vote???? Linn: wot? ShanKahtus: he could add the world to it Cyberwitch: so the best next thing we are putting on the webpage and for everyone to see ShanKahtus: in 60 seconds OneSummer: andras controlls the bot and won't be fiddling with the results log. ShanKahtus: and the coords are not on the web page Cyberwitch: we well pe putting up signs and web page explaing this ShanKahtus: I was given no deadline to have the info in Cyberwitch: no he can't Baron von Shrike: I "could" add and change and tweak every sign in the place until it met with the approval of all; but I won't Cyberwitch: than it will mess up the bot how it is set now ShanKahtus: then ShanKahtus: let me change this sign Cyberwitch: it would change everything and than your votes might not than worl Cyberwitch: you wouldn't want that to happen do u? ShanKahtus: and OH let me here that even one thing was changed for anyone Baron von Shrike: the build stands as it is. ShanKahtus: How will i get any votes? ShanKahtus: \if no one sees my avs Cyberwitch: weare try to do so not to mess up votes if change it is the bot is set up Baron von Shrike: you're certainly not alone. it was up to the original nominators to provide valid information. ShanKahtus: I don't care about the votes ShanKahtus: I want the people to see my avs Cyberwitch: that is why we are now working on before the voting start instrutions to the people Cyberwitch: please if you let us work on it we are trying to do our best so eveyone will know the updates of yours Cyberwitch: they will if you have it in a world not before or web page we are adding to the update page and everyone will see that before voting ok but we need to do that first ShanKahtus: should i hurridly put together my avs in Shanwrks or is it a waste of time ShanKahtus: Baron von XXXXX is doing everything he can to see that my avs will not be seen Linn: when does voting start? Cyberwitch: and right now not able to do it cause have to tallk time to explain it before voting is slowing us down you undertand we are trying best we can so they can ok? Linn: 15 min? Vicky Ann o: 7vrt Baron von Shrike: I'll be adding the coords to the voting site at 7pm vrt Vicky Ann o: yes 15 minutes Guri Lady: Yes at 7 pm VRT :) Linn: lol Cyberwitch: but if we cahne at this sie anything than even if see your av it migh mess up your votes so best thing let us do the update page ok ShanKahtus: it would take 60 seconds ShanKahtus: to add this Cyberwitch: no BVS is not Linn: more like 3 months and 60 secs ShanKahtus: this could of been overwith 30 minutes ago ShanKahtus: listen Baron von Shrike: it was over with 30 minutes ago Cyberwitch: he made this site base on another date and after that bot set up he can not change it thats why the update page Kerstin: it was over because you promised me that you had not changed any nominations baron Cyberwitch: as soon as we get this update page going not before it Kerstin: i am looking at the page from last saturday, and i am looking at this sign, and they don't match Kerstin: please explain ShanKahtus: the Goreans Hate me becausse i am not Gorean and the non Goreans Hate me because i have a Gor World i am used to being shafted from both sides. I only want what is fair ShanKahtus: just say ShanKahtus: heck with you Shankahtus ShanKahtus: Shaft you again Baron von Shrike: I haven't changed a thing from the info provided on the nominations page as it stood on Sept 7, other than to delete a name that asked not to be included. Cyberwitch: listen please we are not against Gro I like some of their stuff they make awesome stuff ShanKahtus: Telegram from HoneyB1, sent Sun Sep 8, 2002 1:16 AM: Baron von Shrike: and that came from the cy execs. Cyberwitch: but this si nothing to do with who ShanKahtus: You have been nominated for Cy in the event of Creative Vision & Application Avatar Development ShanKahtus: As a member of the Cy Team I would like to congratulate you for being nominated and ask that you please get back to me a.s.a.p with some important info, voting will be reopen in the next few weeks for community to vote. Kerstin: the page from last week says : Baron von Shrike DMPartz ShanKahtus: Sept 8th Cyberwitch: it is soemthing to do with stuff not done before we start this ShanKahtus: I was notified Kerstin: this sign says Baron von Shrike BSLabZ Cyberwitch: yes that was wored wrong you were on the first list Cyberwitch: and that what that was for Kerstin: BvSLabZ Guri Lady: The person that nominate you, ShanKahtus, was asked for info long before Sept 7th. Cyberwitch: it was few day not weeks was correct in the ng ShanKahtus: OH? Cyberwitch: and that did not change what you ahd before Guri Lady: Yes. OneSummer: I believe the person that nominate you, ShanKahtus, was asked for info long before Sept 7th. ShanKahtus: I think I may have been nominate on the very last day Guri Lady: Anyone I nominated..I got emails askign if info was correct or to add any other info. Cyberwitch: it jusst mean we ahd missing infor from that time OneSummer: that's right Curi Lady Guri Lady: Yep. OneSummer: so its no one's fault here Cyberwitch: this is all before the last voting when they cut down ShanKahtus: the person that nominated me is here Guri Lady: Everyone I nominated..I got an email asking me to make sure I gave the correct information ShanKahtus: ask her Guri Lady: If the person that did nominate you didn't follow through..I am sorry. Guri Lady: The fault is on the end. :( Cyberwitch: and we had added all from the old list we saw missing stuff we try to correct it and update it that is all so fair to all Kerstin: CW is what was on the web site last saturday the info that the nominators corrected a while back? Guri Lady: is on that end^^ sorry typos :) Cyberwitch: MM correctsome ShanKahtus: so I will be shafted? ShanKahtus: it is OK Cyberwitch: that is what trying to do et mroe of a update page but can't till we get all info Kerstin: this is exactly what i said would happen and the committee would not listen ShanKahtus: I should expect as much OneSummer: well the person who nominated you should of took care or it for you ShanKahtus ShanKahtus: I work night an day Cyberwitch: no you will not if you please let us do the update pae instead wasting time explaing we can get it up and your infor will be there ShanKahtus: to make original avatars ShanKahtus: that is OK Cyberwitch: ok look you were voted on what you first made not now what you made ShanKahtus: I see what is going on here Linn: yep Linn: complete chaos just as before Cyberwitch: we were jsut looking for mising infor from the old voting page Cyberwitch: now Cyberwitch: ok wait lets go somewhere to tlk and maybe eplain more please Linn: let us all listen Cyberwitch: too many people talking hard to workwith one ata time OneSummer: yes CW Linn: hummm OneSummer: maybe you can go talk somewhere else OneSummer: thanks Cyberwitch: when we knew the last voting was not done righ casue of missing infor Linn: among other things Cyberwitch: we than said we are going to use the old where everyone is back on to make more fair Cyberwitch: understand that so far? Linn: tell it all Cyber ShanKahtus: If I find out Cyberwitch: foget I am not going to talk if everyone is to explain over ShanKahtus: that anything has been changed ShanKahtus: for anyone OneSummer: Linn if it's ShanKahtus that has a problem why do you need to listen in ShanKahtus: and not this ShanKahtus: sign Kerstin: CW you can not change some nominations and not change others -- it is wrong Cyberwitch: listen please we are not Linn: part of the process we all need to know OneSummer: why is that OneSummer: its not our bussiness ShanKahtus: if it will be the fair thing to do for a human being OneSummer: that is way to silly Linn: agreed Kerstin Cyberwitch: this information was only to corredt missing information ShanKahtus: How can you not fix this sign? Kerstin: i am standing here looking at a nomination that was changed. if you change for one you must change for all who ask. or change none Linn: thats the whole prob here Cyberwitch: not change anything else Cyberwitch: you are not listening OneSummer: as I see it you have a person with a concern OneSummer: then others pushing to make more problems Linn: no Guri Lady: 2 mins Linn: just to be sure all is done fairly ShanKahtus: OH? ShanKahtus: kerstin? OneSummer: that is not for the well being of all the communites ShanKahtus: what was changed OneSummer: so now your saying your a judge ShanKahtus: Baron changed his own sign? Cyberwitch: I will not talk than till people are really ready to listen to waht was done or forget it Kerstin: Baron's nomination was for DMPartz. this sign says BvSLabZ ShanKahtus: OH Really? Baron von Shrike: AW changed the name of the world at my request at the time of renewal. OneSummer: good cause there are people here I am thinking that want to just cause problems OneSummer: as always ShanKahtus: that is definately grounds for a suit OneSummer: and not work for the betterment of the communites ShanKahtus: let me get a picture of this sign Linn: no OS you are wrong Kerstin: there are people here who want this to be fair to everyone OS Cyberwitch: if he did he jsut might screw up his voting too OneSummer: well Kerstin ShanKahtus: yep yep yep OneSummer: your on the committee for Cy's Linn: Kerstin is right OneSummer: you wait until now to say something was wrong OneSummer: please GALLANT Sir Gary: probly when they decided to BE the committee Weebo: yep we jumped in and helped when it was needed Baron von Shrike: Kerstin? Weebo: we done what we could do when we could Linn: i propose we cancell till next year this will never work now Weebo: if you have a problem maybe you can join the rules committee next year maki: oh gee...I wasnt aware people could change the nominations to the thing they want nominated...lol FreeFLYER: We would encourage eveyone to please go visit thoses siote of nominations you can go to there are many talented peopl in aw Weebo: we could sure use the help LadyALucard: it will work, but you must be BIASED of no one FreeFLYER: adn of course i know you al can read typonese right Linn: cancell till next yr ShanKahtus: Go to Shanwrks Talisan: I understand and appreciate all the work you folks have done. Perhaps this can all be a learning experience for the future if you folks are not too fed up to be around again next year ;) LadyALucard: that is why anyone on the committee should not be up for the award Linn: right ShanKahtus: I agree Linn: thats why it was a mess to start with ShanKahtus: the sign behind me FreeFLYER: We have found so many gremlins this year and sure they will be put to death before next year's event Baron von Shrike: is that the correct spelling? Baron von Shrike: shan? Malka: gotta watch for conflicts of interest... to maintain integrity.. GALLANT Sir Gary: thatts why the rule was made in the first place maki: indeed...then this will solve the free right to choose what you want nominated problem? lol Linn: that and empty worlds in top 5 Malka: that is a given.. LadyALucard: or excuse me for saying so, building right next to where the voting is to take place if you are nominated ShanKahtus: and Several Avs ShanKahtus: naaaaaaaaa ShanKahtus: that is correct as is ShanKahtus: OH good ShanKahtus: thanks Baron von Shrike: and does the teleport land people exaclty where you want? GALLANT Sir Gary: yea geeee what could the reason be for that Baron von Shrike: does the teleport work? Linn: well this years has no meaning behind it Linn: :-( ShanKahtus: thank you very much for being fair about this and thank you all for all the work you have done LadyALucard: it does for me Linn you know why? FreeFLYER: : ) Baron von Shrike: thanks for your patience. Linn: why? ShanKahtus: I am sure you did not get paid for it Weebo: we did the best we could do :) maybe next year you could join the cy team ShanKahtus: and i very much appreciate it LadyALucard: because the judges decided and not by recruiting votes ShanKahtus: Going to set my avs up properly thanks again Guri Lady: Welcome to the Cy Awards Community Voting Area. :) Guri Lady: Teleports have been set up for easy access and viewing of the nominees work. Linn: lol Linn: a joke it is Guri Lady: We would encourage everyone to please take the time to visit as many nominated sites as you can. LadyALucard: so i am honored this year, and i think it will still work once the bugs are worked out Linn: too late for that now Guri Lady: Once you are ready to cast your votes, proceed to the voting area. CarLBanks: when will voting be working LadyALucard: i really do think NO ONE should be allowed to build anwhere near here Linn: lol LadyALucard: or have signs ups but what is here Linn: then cover it Guri Lady: Signs with the nominees names will be posted in the voting area. To vote for a nominee, simply click on the sign with their name on it. GALLANT Sir Gary: i did!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Guri Lady: You may only vote for one nominee in each category. Any additional names clicked will be discarded. Guri Lady: Each citizen is allowed to vote only once. Attempts to vote more than once will not be registered. Hoppi: where is voting area? Jardine: Guri Lady: Please note: You can not revoke your vote once it has been cast, so be very careful where you are clicking. Linn: hi Jardine Jardine: hi Linn Talisan: to the right Hoppi ZaroLene: hey Linn LadyALucard: Summer? Linn: hi Z ZaroLene: hi Hoppi Guri Lady: The CyVoteBot will tally all the votes and it will tell you how many categories you voted on. Talisan: How long will voting be open for? Baron von Shrike: the voting area teleport has been temporarily disabled. sorry for the inconvenience Guri Lady: Okay, hun. Guri Lady: :) LadyALucard: Gury lady are we supposed to turn in coords or soemthing? Guri Lady: Sorry folks that it was turned on. :) Guri Lady: Do you now have cords? Hoppi: Hi Zarolene Guri Lady: that=thought LadyALucard: i can get them if you need them or just into gz is fine it is the entrance to the world hehehe Griffin HLR: hugs Hoppi , hugs Zaro :) Guri Lady: Oh hehe Hoppi: Hugs Griff ZaroLene: hi Griffin Guri Lady: Welcome to the Cy Awards Community Voting Area. :) dreamer2: hiya - mind if I go visiting some nominated sites? Guri Lady: Teleports have been set up for easy access and viewing of the nominees work. FreeFLYER: At this poin Lady A if you put sign to specific at Your GZ would be helpful CarLBanks: when will voting bot be up Guri Lady: Please do, dreamer. :) dreamer2: kewl ;) thankee Guri Lady: :) CarLBanks: *waits for voting bot8 Talisan: lol, now it's an event. :) Guri Lady: hehe CarLBanks: I'm also done deciding Guri Lady: Hiyas, everyone. :0 Guri Lady: :) Guri Lady: ((hugs)) CarLBanks: ok CarLBanks: where is votig bot CarLBanks: I'm done deciding Garnet: hello Guri :) huggss Aleena: Kerstin? Kerstin: yes aleena i'm here Hoppi: is voting open? Baron von Shrike: I am awaiting word from "on high" to activate the voting teleprt LadyALucard: do you want it in whisper FreeFlyer? Guri Lady: Welcome to the Cy Awards Community Voting Area. :) Kerstin: aleena you had 3 nominations in write-in category but you only have one sign and there are no teleports -- ask baron to change it CarLBanks: I'm done Guri Hoppi: Can I be "on high"? I say go Baron von Shrike: :) CarLBanks: we need voting bot open Guri Lady: Teleports have been set up for easy access and viewing of the nominees work. We would encourage everyone to please take the time to visit as many nominated sites as you can, there are many talented people in aw. Guri Lady: Waiting for the voting bot, carl :) Garnet: oh a voting bot? oh cool CarLBanks: I gotta goto AWTeen at 7:30 Guri Lady: Okay. We trying to hurry. :) FreeFLYER: well Carl we will be open all week Guri Lady: Thank you for being patient. LadyALucard: ok then it would be ALucard 0n 0w then hehehe Guri Lady: ((hugs)) to all Hoppi: voting will be open for days I think CarLBanks: I have decicded CarLBanks: ok going to AWTeen CarLBanks: I'll be back after show Guri Lady: Okay, Carl Thanks. See you then ((HUGS)) LadyALucard: so when you vote it teleports you to that world? GALLANT Sir Gary: no GALLANT Sir Gary: these are the nominees LadyALucard: ok Cyberwitch: eveyone when go into the tepoeport room check people out than go there GALLANT Sir Gary: there is a teleport to go to the voting area Garnet: hi there Baron :) Baron von Shrike: hyas hun :) Cyberwitch: you have whole week to do it Guri Lady: The signs in the "viewing" area for nominee will teleport you to their build Garnet: been busy I see :) Guri Lady: Teleports have been set up for easy access and viewing of the nominees work. We would encourage everyone to please take the time to visit as many nominated sites as you can, there are many talented people in aw. Weebo: please check on the web page LadyALucard: oh ok Guri Lady: :) Baron von Shrike: :) FreeFLYER: The teleports are for your convinience in veiwing the nominee's work Aleena: Bye all Cyberwitch: than when ready for for your chose of one vote per room Weebo: let's go with it Guri Lady: Yes. LadyALucard: bye bye Aleena Cyberwitch: rememebe you don't have to vote all on same day FreeFLYER: the voting bot will hankde your votes soon as it is up and running FreeFLYER: handle Cyberwitch: the bot will tkae care of it Guri Lady: Once you are ready to cast your votes, proceed to the voting area. LadyALucard: too bad you can't block this area off until it is all worked out Cyberwitch: but remeber be careful before voting Guri Lady: The teleport is now ready :) Cyberwitch: casue one vote in room can not change it Guri Lady: To vote for a nominee, simply click on the sign with their name on it. Garnet: Cyberwitch.. how many days will the voting take place? Cyberwitch: before voting check out the teleports Cyberwitch: one week Cyberwitch: till the 21 Guri Lady: Each citizen is allowed to vote only once. Attempts to vote more than once will not be registered. Garnet: :) Cyberwitch: so take your time Guri Lady: Please note: You can not revoke your vote once it has been cast, so be very careful where you are clicking. Cyberwitch: yes only one vote per cit GALLANT Sir Gary: boy that aint much time FreeFLYER: the voting bot should be working now GALLANT Sir Gary: we were down more than that Guri Lady: The CyVoteBot will tally all the votes and it will tell you how many categories you voted on. Garnet: Gallant .. you dont hink you can make your mind up in a week? Cyberwitch: will if you visit two rooms perday you csan than able to vote for all rooms GALLANT Sir Gary: was to be three weeks i thought GALLANT Sir Gary: some ppl only come on on the weekend FreeFLYER: voting will take place for one week please ask everyone you know to take advantage of the teleports and please do vote GALLANT Sir Gary: or a day off drom work Griffin HLR: sorry..... how many votes do you get? did you say 1... or 1 per catagory? OneSummer: Yes Griffin HLR Cyberwitch: So please take your time check out peoples places LadyALucard: man i coulc get lost here hehehe Cyberwitch: you have all week to look and vote Weebo: plenty of time Cyberwitch: on vote per room per cit Weebo: can always come back if undecided Cyberwitch: no LadyALucard: why only a week, is there a hurry? Cyberwitch: never that Griffin HLR: ahhh ok . per room *s* ty*s* GALLANT Sir Gary: yea i thought there was to be a list of finalists that had been reduced to like 5 per catagory or something like that Guri Lady: Cy Awards Community voting closes on Saturday, September 21st, at 7pm VRT. LadyALucard: there you are hehehe Weebo: that was for the selection committee on the last agent1 webmaster@shatteredplattersdotcomSep 15, 2002, 10:17pm
If there's a problem with how the Cy Awards are being run, take it up with the people in charge. What do you expect this post to do *except* cause argument over what happened? I didn't read very much because it seems like a matter left between the Cy Nominee and the people running the Cy Awards.
Next time you want to post a chat log this long for other people to read, *PLEAE* post it to an Internet site and provide a link. Not many people are going to bother reading 24kb of text, so they shouldn't have to download it. -Agent1 [View Quote] jstone2004Sep 15, 2002, 10:45pm
to be honest, I don't see what the big deal is with how the Cy's are run. I
think that we need to respect how they are doing things. Change is eminent, it can't be stopped, so we should just accept that change and work around it, giving them room to do what they have to do. If I hear any more arguing and accusing, I'm going to throw up. J [View Quote] anduinSep 15, 2002, 11:26pm
An identity claiming to be known as "jstone2004" <jstone_2004 at yahoo.com> scribed the following <3d8529be$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com> at community:
>to be honest, I don't see what the big deal is with how the Cy's are run. I >think that we need to respect how they are doing things. Change is eminent, >it can't be stopped, so we should just accept that change and work around >it, giving them room to do what they have to do. If I hear any more arguing >and accusing, I'm going to throw up. I personally think it's very badly run and the CY Awards are not valid for this year. What's wrong with the webpage and setting up drop down menus for each nomination of each area, and when selected your AW Browser teleports to the location. I dunno, I'm not gonna bother this year myself. -- ,,,,, (o o) /--------------ooO--(_)--Ooo--------------\ | Anduin (317281) | | o The Gorean Scribe | | o http://www.anduin-lothario.com | | o World: GorSJ (18+ Only) | \--------------ooO-------Ooo--------------/ kahSep 18, 2002, 5:28pm
"anduin" <anduin at anduin-lothario.com> wrote in
news:e5baoukkg6ia79ooj52cdjqvt66njd4blg at 4ax.com: > I personally think it's very badly run and the CY Awards are not valid > for this year. What's wrong with the webpage and setting up drop down > menus for each nomination of each area, and when selected your AW > Browser teleports to the location. I dunno, I'm not gonna bother this > year myself. I only voted for stuff I knew about, which is unfair to the other nominees that I didn't know about. This was because it would've taken WAY too much time for me to first run through the entire teleport center which wasn't complete and did not have much quality on the nominations (raw and uncut, many duplicate nominations and completely incorrect nominations, an example is 9 9 9's nomination for the Linux server Roland & Co wrote ages ago...). Also, they don't even seem to have gotten my reply to their information request telegram, because when I asked the on-site people about it they told me to mail Mountain Myst about it... KAH |