More proof (follow up to last posts) (Community)

More proof (follow up to last posts) // Community

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subdelta

Mar 21, 2002, 11:38am
Hello again boys, girls, transsexuals, drag queens and all you fuzzy
pink bunnies out there (sorry, I just sorta like the idea of fuzzy pink
bunnies ;¬P)

I've found some more evidence that Mr. Noll is a big, fat, LIAR. How
stupid does he think we are? saying that the supposed deletions are a
rumor. I overlooked the most obvious evidence of his intentions... right
on the AW web page on http://www.activeworlds.com/products/cancel.asp

Check this out... "... After 30 days, your citizen ID and any properties
built with that ID will be permanently deleted."

Now that doesn't seem to be that it's a rumor? Well, Mr. Noll, of your
reading this, now I don't just think your incompetent anymore; I think
your the WORST liar I've ever known. Seriously, either your talking out
your ass or you're just so out of it you don't even know what your own
company is doing.

I called the other day regarding this and left a message on his voice
mail to follow up with my last e-mail. I still haven't received a
response on that one either. I guess I have to insult him personally in
order to get anything out of him. Pardon me for saying so, but I think
only a no good asshole would lie straight out to a customer like that. I
don't think I'll stand for it either.

I think I'll call back and give him another piece of my mind.

subDelta

binarybud

Mar 21, 2002, 12:06pm
This is a NEW Rule and it applys ONLY to NEW cits. NOT current cits. so were's the lie?
They have to delete anyones property that does not stick around more than 30 days...sounds quite reasonable to me. ALL the old
stuff stays...unless requested deletion is issued......then normal channels are taken.

keep digging you'll find something to satisfy ya...:)
though i doubt it....;)




[View Quote]

dotar sojat

Mar 21, 2002, 5:04pm
Also if you would quyuote the entire sentance it refers to those who fill
out this handy dandy little form on that page.
[View Quote]

subdelta

Mar 21, 2002, 5:54pm
I talked on the phone today with Tom at AW Corp.
He informed me that this rule applies to any citizen, new or old, who expires after January 31, 2002, which includes current
citizens (meaning if you expire, Bud, there's a possibility you can kiss all your work in AW goodbye).

If you want more clarification, call them yourself.

subDelta


[View Quote] keep digging you'll find something to satisfy ya...:)
though i doubt it....;)




[View Quote]

brant

Mar 21, 2002, 6:07pm
I find it very disconcerting that AW's management is contradicting itself in
these statements. Someone should write a follow-up letter to Mr. Noll (use
some manners, this time), and inquire about the exact meaning of this
phrase.

[View Quote]

silenced

Mar 21, 2002, 6:08pm
Hmm.. I don't think it's anything new. The higher management hasn't always
told the complete truth.

--Bowen--

[View Quote]

binarybud

Mar 21, 2002, 6:16pm
WOW i still can't believe that...... that's one of the stupidest things i've seen yet.... sure does make ya wonder what the
hell these people are thinking..... there is absolutly no reason whatso ever to delete past builds..... Vandalism is another
story....but legitimate builds should NEVER be deleted.

I can only imagine the feelings that all these fine builders are going through knowing now that what they spent hours laboring
on....and at the time they did it it was common knowledge that they would remain.....will be unceremoniously destroyed. BTW ...I
have not talked to them one on one....but i did receive a chat log of a meeting with JP and the GK's where he did state in that
meeting that OLD cit builds would never be deleted....only NEW signups..... oh well rumors sure do thrive around here.....on one
thing can quell a rumor......that's the authorities issuing a truth...... OK...AWCOM...... balls in your court..... dispell the
rumors...... or explain the facts.......please.

Leo :) aka BinaryBud

ps; them deleting old builds is like telling someone that you can build wild things in AW, but then when they get there there is
nothing but an empty field.......NO EXAMPLES....START from Scratch? yea right...makes a lot of sense. NOT (all old builds
are nothing but good advertising for AWCOM)



[View Quote]

mauz

Mar 21, 2002, 8:08pm
[View Quote] Cryonics said that the deletion rule "only applies to existing and new users",
whereas the citizenships that have expired before this year wouldn't be affected,
because they couldn't have known that their buildings could be lost if they left AW
(pretty considerate from their part I think).

However, that was back in February, so since E N Z O now said otherwise,
I thought that they had reconsidered.

--
Mauz
http://mauz.info

zeo toxion

Mar 21, 2002, 8:16pm
thats still bad becuase people who have renewed since whenever aw started
the fees...if they expired now all their builds would be deleted too even if
they are 10 year old builds

[View Quote]

pc hamster

Mar 21, 2002, 8:25pm
Hi everyone:

[View Quote] Why should any one of us use some amnners when AWcom itself has been talking
out of its ass??? Looks pretty clear to me. There was NO date in which
they would go by when it comes to deleting stuff listed on that page.
Besides, how do you know this "Tom" person wasn't giving you any double talk
Bud???

As I said before, if you spot a tourist build that's either a work of art or
worth preserving, then TAKE IT OVER!!!! Do it NOW before AWcom spots it and
hits the DELETE key.

Just my $.05 worth.....Cheers :-)

Patrick Cook
Mayor - City of Hamsterville
pchamster at msn.com
Denver, Colorado
http://home.talkcity.com/MinivanAve/patrick32/

brant

Mar 21, 2002, 11:32pm
I don't care what AW's been doing - you still use manners because it's the
right thing to do. Would you reply if someone sent you an E-Mail calling
you incompetent and a complete idiot? Thus, on this particular incident
(I'm not saying anything about any other incidents), I'll have to side with
AW. The original letter was very rude and I don't blame ENZO for not
replying. Were I in his shoes, I certainly wouldn't have.

Perhaps if we all worked on basic communication skills, there wouldn't be so
many miscommunications around here.

-Brant

[View Quote]

dotar sojat

Mar 22, 2002, 12:50am
Good point Brant

[View Quote]

subdelta

Mar 22, 2002, 1:10am
Actually, the original letter was polite... that one is not posted here as it received no response. The second letter though... the
"rude" one DID get a response. I guess that's what it takes sometimes. Just because no one else has the guts to tell people exactly
what they think of them doesn't make it wrong when someone does it.

I've been told by many of my friends, associates, etc. that I am generally a very blunt person. It's just what I am and I won't
change that fact just because it makes some people become offended or uncomfortable.

I also hold very strong opinions, and won't change these for the same reasons. If you have a problem with that, Brant, I think I can
tell you where to go... but then again... that wouldn't be very polite of me, would it?

In the words of Eep (one who I respect because of his strong opinions as well)... "Drive on through."

subDelta
[View Quote] Perhaps if we all worked on basic communication skills, there wouldn't be so
many miscommunications around here.

-Brant

[View Quote]

macb z@x.y

Mar 22, 2002, 2:44am
[View Quote] > I don't care what AW's been doing - you still use manners because it's the
> right thing to do. Would you reply if someone sent you an E-Mail calling
> you incompetent and a complete idiot? Thus, on this particular incident
> (I'm not saying anything about any other incidents), I'll have to side with
> AW. The original letter was very rude and I don't blame ENZO for not
> replying. Were I in his shoes, I certainly wouldn't have.
>
> Perhaps if we all worked on basic communication skills, there wouldn't be so
> many miscommunications around here.
>
> -Brant
>

Manners are good, calling someone a liar is bad, sometimes even if they
are one. But aren't we wasting time arguing about that? The company
that Rick is the co-head of, is about to lose quite a few users over
this, and it would make sense for him, or one of his employees to clear
this up. There are 3 or 4 opinions among us about what will happen,
there has been no definitive response from the company. Everything
posted here has been second hand information.

Maybe that is exactly what the company wants to do. Leave the issue in
doubt so that people will sign up, just to protect their old property.
At this point, I have already made up my mind. Like me, there is a
group of people who will let their cits expire no matter what they say
now. There is another group who will sign up for more abuse no matter
what. And then there are those in the middle.

I suggest that the company owes those people a response to the question
NO MATTER HOW IT IS POSED. We are talking good business sense here,
not manners.

In answer to your question: "Would you reply if someone sent you an
E-Mail calling you incompetent and a complete idiot?" The fact is, that
two or three people e-mailed them back in January about this, and got no
response. As far as we know those requests were polite, and the more
recent impolite one was the one he chose to respond to. So, if the
issue is "what works", sounds like politeness is not the effective approach.

But the company, whether asked by newsgroup, e-mail or carrier pigeon,
owes its users a definitive, and PUBLIC answer. And, not an answer by
means that can't be posted here out of concern over manners. :)

pc hamster

Mar 22, 2002, 4:53am
Hi everyone:

[View Quote] My thoughts exactly Macb. Not only that, but there's STILL the question
over whether tourist builds (many of them being works of art) will remain on
AW. I myself will be working on the preservation of one such build in
Hamsterville (assuming its still there next time I log on that is!) and have
every intention of finishing it.

> Maybe that is exactly what the company wants to do. Leave the issue in
> doubt so that people will sign up, just to protect their old property.

Any citizen who has put in ANY amount of time into their cities, town,
and/or other builds on AW would want to make sure they renew their cit even
though they may never admit it of course. It's all a matter of pride.

> At this point, I have already made up my mind. Like me, there is a
> group of people who will let their cits expire no matter what they say
> now. There is another group who will sign up for more abuse no matter
> what. And then there are those in the middle.

I would belong in that group who is somewhere in the middle, though I'm one
who tends to put the joy of other people ahead of my own self satisfaction
(at least I like to think I do). As such, I just may go ahead and renew my
cit when or before it expires next year so people can enjoy my town and I
can reap in the fruits of my labor. :-)

> I suggest that the company owes those people a response to the question
> NO MATTER HOW IT IS POSED. We are talking good business sense here,
> not manners.

Once again Macb, I totally agree. :-)

> But the company, whether asked by newsgroup, e-mail or carrier pigeon,
> owes its users a definitive, and PUBLIC answer. And, not an answer by
> means that can't be posted here out of concern over manners. :)

See above.

In short, if the CARP situation doesn't kill AWcom, their obvious lack of
customer respect WILL eventually do them in.

Speaking of the CARP situation, I wonder just what AWcom is doing about that
now that they've acquired NetBroadcaster.com and are now subject to the SAME
rules that other webcasters are. For more info. on the CARP situation, see
my post in the General Discussion Newsgroup.

Anyone from AWcom (who just happen to be *miraculously* reading these NGs)
care to comment???

Just my $.05 worth....Cheers :-)

Patrick Cook
Mayor - City Of Hamsterville
pchamster at msn.com
Denver, Colorado
http://home.talkcity.com/MinivanAve/patrick32/

brant

Mar 22, 2002, 11:23am
I still disagree, but I'm not going to argue anymore about this letter. The
reason that AW isn't listening to everyone is because the community is very
disorganized. Just take these posts - people are spending more time
throwing accusations at AW than actually figuring out what to do to get
these policies changed.

The entire problem started with that worldowners meeting that turned into a
complete disaster because the organizers didn't let everyone share their
views on both sides (as well as not ejecting troublemakers, but that's
another story). Everyone emerged from the meeting with no definite course
of action determined. Then there were a variety of worlds that threatened
to close down, but they remained just that - a variety of worlds that
threatened to close down, instead of a lot of people shutting down their
worlds for a day to make a statement. There were protests in the AWDebate
world, but just as things looked promising and people were discussing
acceptable solutions, host J B E L L told everyone that the meeting wasn't
being held right now and that he wouldn't let anyone use the world until he
was ready later, at which time most people had left.

In short, if someone had stepped up and started to organize everyone back in
January in a logical fashion, there would be a lot more people here now, and
you'd probably be paying somewhat less for citizenships as well as not
arguing about this subject either. I'm not saying that AW isn't at fault
for instituting these policies. A lot of the blame rests on the community
as well.

[View Quote]

subdelta

Mar 22, 2002, 12:40pm
Personally, I don't think AW ever really listened. But that's my opinion.
Everything I've said in these posts are my opinions, based on evidence, but
I do no expect people to take them as absolute fact (I could be wrong and
this whole thing is just a mis-understanding, though I doubt it.)

Anyway, I still haven't decided what I want to do when my account comes up
for renewal in January. If AW decides to delete any expired builds of merit
I probably won't stick around.... assuming AW Corp doesn't decide I'm a
"risk" and troublemaker and delete my account. If they want to censor
anything that's their own choice, and they know the consequences of that
choice if they so decide. Silencing anyone is not a good way to build a
community. But as I've said, it's their decision.

If I don't decide to renew or they decide to give me the ax, I'll probably
move on to OuterWorlds. I hear it's nice there, and the community spirit is
abundant... much more than here. Maybe it's time for a change.

Peace out for now...

subDelta

[View Quote]

kellee

Mar 22, 2002, 9:15pm
I first heard the "rumour" of *existing citizens are to be deleted when they
expire* when a GK sent me the chat log of a meeting with JP. When it was
discussed in this NG I think most ppl where too unbelieving of such
stupidity for it to sink in but it WAS discussed. Despite this when I
mentioned it in another thread I was called a liar.

The earlier thread where i tried to come up with a plan as an alternative to
*existing citizens are to be deleted when they expire* ...... remember? I
suggested that Alpha be closed to new building and another world be set up
so that existing customers can bot builds of merit over. After a month, the
old Alpha could be closed down. This alternative may not be great, but the
only reason I can think of for *existing citizens are to be deleted when
they expire* is that Alpha is too big and unweildy and AWCorp want to
reduce the amount of the burden. In my eyes it would be better to just
delete NACs as they didnt pay and havent returned in over three years to
claim their property, but in this instance the ppl that screamed "You cant
do that" where listened to and they are going to delete US instead.
Gee great plan :o(((

The only other explanation is " dont let your account expire or we will
delete you and yours and make the towns you have built look silly because
of the gaps and missing roads, dont leave us or we will punish you.....be
warned that the rising fees are NOT just to build in AW but to save all your
existing builds from deletion.... na na na na is it worth renewing now ?"

I prefer to think that it is the former explanation and not the latter, and
that was why i have been pushing for an alternative.

And remember.....alternatives are not always what you want, they are what
you can put up with when the original suggestion is untenable to you. As an
existing builder i can see the mess Alpha will be in if for instance SW
Chris was to not renew. Can you imagine the holes that would be left in SW
City? That punishes all of the inhabitants of the largest city in AW.

I also know that i have not built any thing since i heard about this new
plan and i dont intend to. I can see it putting off just about any one, and
especially tourists who think about registering in an effort to have their
builds retained and not deleted.

We as a community is AWcorps biggest asset ..... and biggest PITA. Without
the community this would just be a cute little game that ppl tried out and
then moved on from. It is the community, as fragmented and diverse as it is
, that makes AW different. Maybe , if we spoke with a calm reasonable voice
that was willing to understand the problems of keeping all this going, we
WOULD get somewhere on this issue. The problem i assume, is the messy, old
fashioned world of Alpha. Maybe we may not be able to save Alpha as it is,
but we can save whats worth saving. Its either that or lose parts and
eventually ALL of the community as we know it.

*sigh*

kellee

Mar 22, 2002, 9:32pm
*Cryonics said that the deletion rule "only applies to existing and new
users",
whereas the citizenships that have expired before this year wouldn't be
affected,
because they couldn't have known that their buildings could be lost if they
left AW*


afterthought...... NACs are not going to be deleted because they are " a
part of history and they may return some day" .
Gee...... ya know, if they DID return and renew their cits for a year , then
eventually they would be deleted too

Rather defeats the whole purpose, dosent it??

Despite being warned that they WOULD be deleted if they didnt pay when
billing started back in '97, they didnt pay and opted instead to leave AW.
I remember when billing started......and i remember CLEARLY that ppl that
didnt start paying where going to be deleted, but it never eventuated, hence
the mess that many left " in protest" still stands.

Now we are being told that WE are to be deleted if we dont renew and thats
"ok" because we have been warned?

To delete the ppl that DID pay and retain the ones that didnt ......and
obviously if they were not willing to shell out 20 bucks for two years THEN
, i dont think 70 pa dollars will suit them now......mmmmm GREAT plan

NOT

baro

Mar 22, 2002, 9:43pm
Wow. So 3+ year old useless junk from people that contributed little or
nothing but crap that gets in the way of paying builders have their junk
saved for ever. BUT current people who have put in way more money and time
and continue doing so get their things deleted. I love it, I couldn't have
come up with such an amazingly fair and well though out plan if I had a year
in a time chamber and a magical thinking hat.

pc hamster

Mar 22, 2002, 10:05pm
Hi everyone:

[View Quote] Brant - Even *I* will agree and concede that certain factions of the AW
Community tend to act a little immature and somewhat pre-maturely, BUT....

> The entire problem started with that worldowners meeting that turned into
a
> complete disaster because the organizers didn't let everyone share their
> views on both sides (as well as not ejecting troublemakers, but that's
> another story). Everyone emerged from the meeting with no definite course
> of action determined.

[snip....]

> In short, if someone had stepped up and started to organize everyone back
in
> January in a logical fashion, there would be a lot more people here now,
and
> you'd probably be paying somewhat less for citizenships as well as not
> arguing about this subject either. I'm not saying that AW isn't at fault
> for instituting these policies. A lot of the blame rests on the community
> as well.

You obviously haven't done any reading on the history of AWcom have you???
If you want (and if he's so inclined), Goober King could probably give you a
history lesson you wouldn't soon forget. Then maybe you would change your
way of thinking. I say this because this problem goes back WELL before
January of this year. In fact, it goes back at least the last FIVE YEARS!!!
But I'll leave the rest of the history lesson for Goober. :-)

However though, lemme give you MY little "Welcome To ActiveWorlds' Way Of
Takin' Care Of Business". This I haven't told anyone yet, so it'll be the
first time.... (someone please feel free to correct me on the timeline of
some of these events relating to AWcom)

I had sent in my Money Order for my 3D Homepage, which was to be a P-10 3DHP
as that's what I had paid for. Right around (or maybe even perhaps AT the
same time), AW came up with this "brilliant" idea of eliminating tourists
from AW and eliminating the option of P-10 3DHPs. I know this because
Noelle Petersen (sp?), who was the person at AWcom I had been working with
regarding the purchase of my then-new 3DHP, hadn't moved my page over to
Server 3 (which housed all P-10 3DHPs). In fact, it didn't even look like
it had been touched, let alone moved.

I was going to email Noelle about the matter when I had learned that all
P-10 3DHPs had been eliminated as an option. Right around then, AWcom had
come up with yet ANOTHER "brilliant" idea to have me send in another $20
just to make it tourist-enabled. I was going to send in the $20, but then I
got to thinking. I thought to myself the page was ALREADY paid for, so WHY
should I pay AWcom AGAIN just to make it tourist-enabled???? That would be
like me buying a box of cookies only to be told by the storekeeper that I
would have to pay the store AGAIN just to be able to carry the box out of
the store.

Do you NOW see where we are coming from here Brant??? I hope so. If this
doesn't do the trick, then maybe a history lesson from Goober (or anyone
else who's so inclined) would perhaps be able to convince you that logic and
reasoning alone just doesn't cut it when approaching AWcom with ideas. You
have to blunt as well as reasonably-minded and objective (All of which seems
to fit SubDelta's personality quite a bit if I say so myself).

In short....Until Barney Fife (referencing to Don Knotts' character in the
1960s TV show "The Andy Griffith Show") leaves the post held by Mr. Noll (as
he seems to fit the profile of Barney Fife to a T), NOTHING will get done
and AWcom will still lose $$$ as well as users. And like I said, if the
CARP Proposal and NetBroadcaster doesn't kill them, their OBVIOUS lack of
comeptant management WILL.

Just my $.05 worth....Cheers for now everyone :-)

Patrick Cook
Mayor - City Of Hamsterville
pchamster at msn.com
Denver, Colorado
http://home.talkcity.com/MinivanAve/patrick32/

subdelta

Mar 23, 2002, 12:15am
kellee,

I don't think ANY large scale deletion of NACs or otherwise is acceptable. Like it or not, NAC builds are a large part of AW history
and make up a large part of the properties in AW.

subDelta

[View Quote] I first heard the "rumour" of *existing citizens are to be deleted when they
expire* when a GK sent me the chat log of a meeting with JP. When it was
discussed in this NG I think most ppl where too unbelieving of such
stupidity for it to sink in but it WAS discussed. Despite this when I
mentioned it in another thread I was called a liar.

The earlier thread where i tried to come up with a plan as an alternative to
*existing citizens are to be deleted when they expire* ...... remember? I
suggested that Alpha be closed to new building and another world be set up
so that existing customers can bot builds of merit over. After a month, the
old Alpha could be closed down. This alternative may not be great, but the
only reason I can think of for *existing citizens are to be deleted when
they expire* is that Alpha is too big and unweildy and AWCorp want to
reduce the amount of the burden. In my eyes it would be better to just
delete NACs as they didnt pay and havent returned in over three years to
claim their property, but in this instance the ppl that screamed "You cant
do that" where listened to and they are going to delete US instead.
Gee great plan :o(((

The only other explanation is " dont let your account expire or we will
delete you and yours and make the towns you have built look silly because
of the gaps and missing roads, dont leave us or we will punish you.....be
warned that the rising fees are NOT just to build in AW but to save all your
existing builds from deletion.... na na na na is it worth renewing now ?"

I prefer to think that it is the former explanation and not the latter, and
that was why i have been pushing for an alternative.

And remember.....alternatives are not always what you want, they are what
you can put up with when the original suggestion is untenable to you. As an
existing builder i can see the mess Alpha will be in if for instance SW
Chris was to not renew. Can you imagine the holes that would be left in SW
City? That punishes all of the inhabitants of the largest city in AW.

I also know that i have not built any thing since i heard about this new
plan and i dont intend to. I can see it putting off just about any one, and
especially tourists who think about registering in an effort to have their
builds retained and not deleted.

We as a community is AWcorps biggest asset ..... and biggest PITA. Without
the community this would just be a cute little game that ppl tried out and
then moved on from. It is the community, as fragmented and diverse as it is
, that makes AW different. Maybe , if we spoke with a calm reasonable voice
that was willing to understand the problems of keeping all this going, we
WOULD get somewhere on this issue. The problem i assume, is the messy, old
fashioned world of Alpha. Maybe we may not be able to save Alpha as it is,
but we can save whats worth saving. Its either that or lose parts and
eventually ALL of the community as we know it.

*sigh*

kellee

Mar 23, 2002, 1:16am
I repeat *And remember.....alternatives are not always what you want, they
are what
you can put up with when the original suggestion is untenable to you.*

Deleting existing cits is untenable to me, so I am allowing alternatives to
be suggested ......saving existing builds in a new world, ( both NAC and
existing cits, any thing that ppl deem worth botting over in that month)
deleting NACs.......or some other plan that makes both AWCorp happy and the
community happier than if they where deleted.

*the ppl that screamed "You cant do that" where listened to and they are
going to delete US instead.* Is that what you prefer?
Do you prefer Alpha to be one huge monument to ancient non paying NACs with
a few brand new temporary builds and no ongoing community ?

What is acceptable or unacceptable to you or I or the community ultimately
counts for nothing unless we can make allowances and be willing to give in
on an issue. If indeed the talk of deleting ANYONE is because Alpha world is
a burden too great to bother with then something WILL be done, and we will
have no say in any thing unless we show we are willing to accept less
attractive policies but ones that are preferable to the one mentioned.



[View Quote] I don't think ANY large scale deletion of NACs or otherwise is acceptable.
Like it or not, NAC builds are a large part of AW history
and make up a large part of the properties in AW.

subDelta

goober king

Mar 23, 2002, 1:57am
You give me far too much credit, PC. Fact is, I've already argued this
point with Brant many times, and he is far from the newbie you seem to
be painting him as. That being said, I will agree with you that this is
a problem that goes well beyond January 2nd. Even when it seemed like
Rick & Co. were turning around and starting to listen to us (i.e. AW
3.3), they go and pull something like this, which only goes to show that
the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Frankly, I think the only reason that AW has lasted as long as it has is
*specifically* because of this community. If everyone was to actually
follow up with their threats of not renewing their citships, then this
place would go down the tubes faster than you can say "GZ frame rate",
Netbroadcaster.com or not. As far as I'm concerned, the future of AW is
now out of our hands. If Rick and JP can't wake up and realize that the
community is its biggest asset SOON, then it will be too little, too
late when they eventually DO.

[View Quote] > Hi everyone:
>
[View Quote]
<snip>


--
Goober King
Ponders starting another AWUniv course: AW History 101
rar1 at acsu.buffalo.edu

macb z@x.y

Mar 23, 2002, 5:45am
[View Quote] > You give me far too much credit, PC. Fact is, I've already argued this
> point with Brant many times, and he is far from the newbie you seem to
> be painting him as. That being said, I will agree with you that this is
> a problem that goes well beyond January 2nd. Even when it seemed like
> Rick & Co. were turning around and starting to listen to us (i.e. AW
> 3.3), they go and pull something like this, which only goes to show that
> the more things change, the more they stay the same.
>
> Frankly, I think the only reason that AW has lasted as long as it has is
> *specifically* because of this community. If everyone was to actually
> follow up with their threats of not renewing their citships, then this
> place would go down the tubes faster than you can say "GZ frame rate",
> Netbroadcaster.com or not. As far as I'm concerned, the future of AW is
> now out of our hands. If Rick and JP can't wake up and realize that the
> community is its biggest asset SOON, then it will be too little, too
> late when they eventually DO.
>


Too little too late for me already. And just think of how many people
have already gone. I know MOST of the people I met when I first came
to AW are gone. Not just gone to another universe. GONE.

Until recently that meant that they had lost interest in 3D altogether.
But there are so many new programs under development now that it
won't be the case much longer. I highly recommend anyone who hasn't
had a chance already... take a look at Adobe Atmosphere. More
capabilities in some respects than AW already. And FREE.... how can
you beat that?

But that's just the tip of the iceberg. Those of us who think that 3D
VR is a big part of the future of computing now know that AW will be a
footnote in that future and not much more. If you're too set in your
ways to figure that out though. Hang in there for the next episode of
Mayberry RFD. hehe

swe

Mar 23, 2002, 1:20pm
i agree, i dont understand why everyone wants nac world, they all suck, and
pointless. i mean what can they be used for? well if everyone like em, they
should make a world, with all the NAC worlds, callled awNAC or something,
but, u cant build there, and all the buildings will be right next to each
other, to not take up space...
[View Quote]

swe

Mar 23, 2002, 1:21pm
makes u wonder, if enzo or the other dude have ever studied buissness, or
anything like that...
[View Quote]

silenced

Mar 23, 2002, 9:46pm
From what I heard they haven't. They're liberal arts majors, which doesn't
make them at all qualified to run a business. Seems that their business
expert isn't too swift either...

--Bowen--

[View Quote]

subdelta

Mar 24, 2002, 1:38am
I don't think the issue is quite a much how they can run a business, but the
moral issue involved as well. I mean, is it really moral to tell people who
have used your product for years (some before you even knew the product
existed) that if you don't fork over the money you'll destroy their
creations? I don't think so.

Their past instances (stated in my letter) with Protag and Dataman leave
much to be desired from an ethical standpoint as well... Anyone else have
anything to add to this point?

subDelta

[View Quote] --Bowen--

[View Quote]

silenced

Mar 24, 2002, 1:45am
Yeah, it's all true. Makes me wonder whom they backstabbed to get ahold of
the company.

--Bowen--

[View Quote]

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