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Sep 5, 2003, 5:53am

I have a p30/5usr world and I was thinking it could be fun to open it to
everyone to load a bot into.
This would allow far more people to chat in my world than could visit at one
time and the scene for those who did visit would be interesting with all the
bots going about.
What I'm not sure on is how secure it would be. I'm wondering if bots that
have only ordinary citizen speak and enter rights would be able to do
anything else that their owners may not? Can they vandalize the build or
kick people out or build if thier owners may not?
What other problems would you think i'd run allowing anyone to send a bot
into my world?
I would not find it tremendously difficult to reload the world from backups
as I host the server at home. Would bandwidth be an issue with bot logins?
Am I incorrect in assuming that citizen limits don't apply with bots?
Thankyou for all serious replies. :-)

Sep 10, 2003, 3:13am

Many thanks, yours is the voice most sensible in this thread and I really
think it would be fun to do this.
Ultimately since I host the server at home it's very easy to make backups
and restore so if anyone did screw around it would be fixed in the snap of a
finger.
I think I will open the world and see what happens.
Thankyou Alex.


[View Quote]

Oct 21, 2003, 6:53am

Just a reminder, I have opened the world subrosa to bots. anyone can log in
a bot and experiment, hang out, etc. No bot wars or other deliberately
offensive behaviour please.
Have fun!

Oct 23, 2003, 9:36am

FYI, this is still in force, you are welcome to log your bots into this
world.


[View Quote]

Nov 27, 2003, 1:22pm

Well it's only 5 users but there can be more than that in there to chat with
bots. People could log in there as a chat ability. For me it's the idea of
going in and seeing lots of avatars chatting and wandering randomly over the
terrain.
why each person who'd log in would put a bot in there is up to each person.
Of course I would hope that social disruption would not be one of the
reasons.



[View Quote]

Nov 27, 2003, 1:22pm

I have 2 instances of the chat relay bot (2 profiles). v2.1 b89
One logs into my world in AW, the other into my mirror world via
outerworlds. I'd like to connect them via the BONE network.
I created 2 accounts on the network via the standard BONE client, anar and
anarkissed.
I set up the AW instance to log in as anarkissed and enter channel #subrosa
(my world name). I accidently put my bone account password in as channel
password, I'd like to be able to change that.
So I set up the OW instance (world name Temps!) to log in as anar (another
login password) and enter the same channel, same password as the AW
instance.
A friend's bot logs in as Dls on this channel also, from another world in
AW.
Currently you cannot hear chat between any of the worlds. I can't quite
puzzle out what is going on yet. I have tried to sift through the results
window and it seems as though the OW CRB is logging in twice and the OW one
not at all.
When the client is stopped it fails to log out one of the accounts, anar or
anarkissed until the client is shut down. Upon exiting the client it comes
up with a windows error window (win2kpro,sp1)
An error log is available if desired.
The worlds and server are upgraded to the most recent.
Thankyou in advance.

Here are the results pasted:
11/27/2003 8:52:15 AM] Welcome to ChatRelayBot version 2.1 (build 89)
[11/27/2003 8:52:15 AM] (subrosa) Creating instance...
[11/27/2003 8:52:15 AM] (subrosa) Logging in...
[11/27/2003 8:52:16 AM] (subrosa) Login successful, session ID $DA47
[11/27/2003 8:52:16 AM] (subrosa) Entering subrosa in Global Mode...
[11/27/2003 8:52:16 AM] (subrosa) [Dlsbot] enters
[11/27/2003 8:52:16 AM] (subrosa) [anarbot] enters
[11/27/2003 8:52:16 AM] (subrosa) Address of [Dlsbot]: 207.170.228.220
[11/27/2003 8:52:16 AM] (subrosa) Address of [anarbot]: 64.110.235.60
[11/27/2003 8:52:16 AM] (subrosa) Hide Chat not enabled: Attempting to
enable...
[11/27/2003 8:52:16 AM] (subrosa) Creating Bone instance...
[11/27/2003 8:52:16 AM] (subrosa) Hide Chat enabled: Taking over complete
chat functions.
[11/27/2003 8:52:16 AM] (subrosa) [0] [anarbot]: Xelagot 50EC9 [anarbot]
greets fellow bot [ChatRelayBot]
[11/27/2003 8:52:16 AM] (subrosa) Relay instance active in subrosa
[11/27/2003 8:52:17 AM] (Temps!) Creating instance...
[11/27/2003 8:52:17 AM] (Temps!) Logging in...
[11/27/2003 8:52:17 AM] (Temps!) Login successful, session ID $A56F
[11/27/2003 8:52:17 AM] (Temps!) Entering Temps! in Global Mode...
[11/27/2003 8:52:17 AM] (Temps!) [Temps] enters
[11/27/2003 8:52:17 AM] (Temps!) [danbot] enters
[11/27/2003 8:52:17 AM] (Temps!) Address of [Temps]: 207.170.228.220
[11/27/2003 8:52:17 AM] (Temps!) Address of [danbot]: 64.110.235.60
[11/27/2003 8:52:18 AM] (Temps!) Hide Chat not enabled: Attempting to
enable...
[11/27/2003 8:52:18 AM] (Temps!) Creating Bone instance...
[11/27/2003 8:52:18 AM] (Temps!) Hide Chat enabled: Taking over complete
chat functions.
[11/27/2003 8:52:18 AM] (Temps!) [0] [danbot]: Xelagot 139D [danbot] greets
fellow bot [ChatRelayBot]
[11/27/2003 8:52:18 AM] (Temps!) Relay instance active in Temps!
[11/27/2003 8:52:18 AM] * Relay system is online.
[11/27/2003 8:52:18 AM] (Temps!) Successfully logged into the Bone Network
[11/27/2003 8:52:19 AM] (Temps!) Successfully logged into the Bone Network
[11/27/2003 8:52:19 AM] (Temps!) [Bone] join: Dls -> #subrosa
[11/27/2003 8:52:19 AM] (Temps!) [Bone] join: anarkissed -> #subrosa
[11/27/2003 8:52:19 AM] (Temps!) [Bone] join: Dls -> #subrosa
[11/27/2003 8:52:19 AM] (Temps!) [Bone] join: anarkissed -> #subrosa
[11/27/2003 8:52:19 AM] (Temps!) [Bone] join: anar -> #subrosa
[11/27/2003 8:52:19 AM] (Temps!) [Bone] join: anar -> #subrosa

Nov 28, 2003, 5:02am

[View Quote] i did that and it appears to behave exactly the same except it doesn't crash
on exit:
[11/27/2003 7:18:54 PM] (Temps!) Creating instance...
[11/27/2003 7:18:54 PM] (Temps!) Logging in...
[11/27/2003 7:18:54 PM] (subrosa) [0] [anarbot]: Xelagot 50EC9 [anarbot]
greets fellow bot [ChatRelayBot]
[11/27/2003 7:18:55 PM] (Temps!) Login successful, session ID $A76F
[11/27/2003 7:18:55 PM] (Temps!) Entering Temps! in Global Mode...
[11/27/2003 7:18:55 PM] (Temps!) [danbot] enters
[11/27/2003 7:18:55 PM] (Temps!) Address of [danbot]: 64.110.235.60
[11/27/2003 7:18:55 PM] (Temps!) Hide Chat not enabled: Attempting to
enable...
[11/27/2003 7:18:55 PM] (Temps!) Creating Bone instance...
[11/27/2003 7:18:55 PM] (Temps!) Hide Chat enabled: Taking over complete
chat functions.
[11/27/2003 7:18:55 PM] (Temps!) Relay instance active in Temps!
[11/27/2003 7:18:56 PM] * Relay system is online.
[11/27/2003 7:18:56 PM] (Temps!) Successfully logged into the Bone Network
[11/27/2003 7:18:56 PM] (Temps!) Successfully logged into the Bone Network
[11/27/2003 7:18:56 PM] (Temps!) [Bone] join: anarkissed -> #subrosa
[11/27/2003 7:18:56 PM] (Temps!) [Bone] join: anarkissed -> #subrosa
[11/27/2003 7:18:56 PM] (Temps!) [Bone] join: anar -> #subrosa
[11/27/2003 7:18:56 PM] (Temps!) [Bone] join: anar -> #subrosa
[11/27/2003 7:18:59 PM] (Temps!) [0] ~anarkissed: *** ChatRelayBot version
2.1 (build 90) (aw://auth.activeworlds.com:5685/Temps!)

Dec 5, 2003, 11:53am

I still haven't figured out why this thing isn't working and I really need
someone more knowledgeable to help me.
Can anyone help solve this?
I will spare you the repost of the bot log but email it to anyone who needs
it to help me.
it would appear as though both bot instances are logged into the bone
network and a friend who joined my channel via his bone client was able to
talk into my world but the two bots do NOT relay between each other.
What I wonder is why the application doesn't have an option to relay between
instances of the bot so that if I have more than one instance logged into
worlds I can, with a click or two, get two or more to share the chat between
them instead of needing to log into another network. After all, all the
chat is currently passing through the same application on the same computer.


[View Quote]

Dec 10, 2003, 5:07pm

can you set something so that when one upgrades one doesn't lose the login
information for all but the default instance?


[View Quote]

Jan 7, 2004, 5:49am

actually I gave up on your chat relay bot because it kept crashing and
leaving hide chat enabled when I least expected it so that people would come
into my world and be unable to chat and I'd not even know to fix it.
It would be sitting there doing nothing in particular, the computer mostly
idle and the world empty and just up and crash out of the blue. I could
find no commonality to explain the crash, identify no activity in common,
nothing, it just crashes randomly.
It's a shame because the idea is wonderful but it's far too frustrating and
I did search for updates a fair bit before I gave up.
Perhaps it's not compatible with w2k.


[View Quote]

Nov 26, 2002, 1:34am

aside from thinking that this argument is more about having a b*7ching
session I have an idea for you, TZ. How about instead of replying to the
old post, you make a new post, reintroduce the information and author of the
post which "inspired" your new one and carry on from there? It wasn't that
long ago that people had to paraphrase each other in letters rather than
quote because the letters were manuscripts, not digital text.
By doing it that way you can just sidestep this nonsense about "proper
newsgroup behaviour." Personally I'd say that it's more aggravating to
listen to people snipe at others over harmless abnormal actions than the
harmless abberrations themselves.
Nevertheless I've learned that common sense is an oxymoron and when you're
the oxy, you just have to live with the morons.
And finally, Kah and company, nobody who isn't an owner of this newsgroup
and the servers on it has any business stating what is or is not "correct"
so if you want to waste our time sniping do come prepared with some
documentation please. Quotes with links for footnotes would be good.

Nov 27, 2002, 8:16am

[View Quote] No, it's not constructive, it's destructive. That is what I mean by
"sniping".

> I'm not saying "DON'T
> POST TO OLD THREADS! CUZZ I SAY SO AND I'M THE OWNER OF THE WORLD!"...

That'd be flaming.

> Whilst you're dismissing what I say as rubbish, without really justifying
> yourself. This isn't even news ettiquette, it's basic understanding of the
> concept of NNTP.
>
> KAH

If he has the message there to reply to and CAN reply to it, then there's no
technological reason not to. Network News Transport Protocol doesn't care
about how current it is when you reply to old posts.
Therefor you're making rules about expectation. From what I read, that's
EXACTLY what you were trying to do. You were in effect stating that people
expect stuff that old to be gone forever and he was breaking that
expectation. As though your expectation exists everywhere and is a rule.

Nov 13, 2002, 9:00pm

I wish I could check and find out what I said when someone answers me a
couple days later and doesn't make reference to remind me. I'd like to be
able to open a text file that shows outgoing and incoming telegrams all
lined up by time sent/received. Such a text file would also allow me to
save telegram conversations like I save chat logs, or to forward telegrams,
etc.

Nov 19, 2002, 2:55am

I'd like to be able somehow to scatter any given object randomly throughout
a world in which I have CT privs. I'd like the things to land according to
the elevation.dat file so that I could scatter trees at say 40% and cottage
objects at 10% and bunny objects at 15% and so on, by putting in the object
name and the percentage of fill. If I put 100% then, of course, they'd land
edge to edge and fill the world! (that'd be dumb)
I can see this being done most likely via a build bot of some kind. perhaps
though it could be done via propdump manipulation or via the world server or
browser to server interface?

Nov 19, 2002, 6:53am

What I really mean is say I want tree7m scattered all over my world. I want
to be able to clear forest when I'm ready to build so it can't be
permanently part of the ground object. The description implies that it
creates a single ground object or series of similar large objects like a
ground object that you plunk together. I wanted to scatter objects in a
world, it's more like what a build bot would do. does this do that? I
haven't had time to mess with it just yet but will go over it later when I'm
done my current project.



[View Quote]

Nov 24, 2002, 12:04am

[View Quote] Not that I was asked but, reasons why I would say no to some of these ideas
if I were the software development decider guy:

>
> Avatar Customization flyout menu to let the user select clothing color
variations and/or skin tone for a personalized version of the selected
avatar.

Requires excessive coding and interfacing, excessive coding on the avatar
(and therefor longer download) more textures, etc. For what is a very
minor, albeit nifty, perk.

> Teleport Duplicate of Object.

While nifty and handy this would also be open to far too much abuse. Even
by accident objects would land in all kinds of stupid places and could be
damned hard to track down if they're small or the object code is typo'd into
a triangle lost in a hill or something. No thanks! Rather there should be
a command allowed for "create seed object" or something and it tosses out a
standardized object like sign1 wherever you happen to point or stand or
something.

> Full Object Inventory. (List all objects owned by user on an item by item
basis.)

This would rapidly clog the bandwidth on a large build, that's a LOT of
information to ship out to a user. Far better to get the propdump if you
can and get it out of that. What use would this be anyway?

> Teleport to Object's Location. (Choose object form a list of the N/S by
E/W coordinates in which the specified owner has one ore more objects. Also
usefull for finding lost Objects to delete them.)

would require the one above to implement.

> An "Automatically silde out of contact with other objects when moved"
check box, in the Object Properties dialog box, that would be checked by
default. When checked, moving an object into contact with another object
would cause it to align it's bounding box to the bounding box of the other
object.

As a builder this would quickly get me royally ticked. I want the thing to
go where i send it, I can turn on snap to grid, perhaps just have it
defaulted off, like snap to grid, it could "snap to neighbor obj." but it
still would only work in worlds that have a world registry as otherwise the
browser doesn't actually know the boundaries of the objects.

> A "Follow object" checkbox, in the Object Properties dialog, that would
cause your avatar avatar to be kept in the same position relative to the
object(s) you are moving. This would allow a way to easily carry an object
any distance without losing track of it.

That would be useful, but tricky to setup as the movement of the object you
are shifting seems to be calculated more in relation to your position than
to the world's position? Not sure.

> A "Bring selected ojbects with" checkbox in the Teleport dialog (for
teleporting your avatar) which would be availible if you have any objects
selected when you go to teleport, and when checked, would cause the objects
to be moved with your avatar to the destination even if teleporting to
another world. This option would be off by default.

Oh so potentially abuseable, and furthermore, a nuisance when dealing with
assorted OPs. It's a sad thing that there are people who's favorite hobby
is getting reactions out of other people and who will happily go for the
negative reaction. They really do ruin the game for everyone. Still we
have to try and 2nd guess these brats and not give them new tools.


> Vision enhancements for use while building, such as being able to select
Wireframe mode or a hybrid with normal visibility for closer objects and
wireframe mode for more distant objects.

Ooohhh, we will all have to buy newer faster computers for sure now!

> Drop-boxes displaying the commands that are supported by an object, or the
objects, sounds, textures, etc. that are available to select from. (or that
are already cached.)

Now THAT seems like a workable idea, although again it would increase
computation and bandwidth requirements.

>
> Here are some of the commands and command enhancement that would still
like to see added:
>
> Command abreviations,

Hmmm, it'd be more like it's got all new commands, only shorter, but then
you have to leave in backwards compatibility to old builds so you just have
twice the computation required.

Anyway, Enough trashing your ideas as that isn't my intention, I just want
to point out that when designing AW they have to consider three things
first: user abuse, bandwidth optimization and keeping the computer
requirements as low as possible. nobody on a 486 is going to try to do AW
but neither do you want to exclude everyone with less than a pIII power
computer. You make more money if you are more accessible. So when
designing and adding and stuff you have to weigh those factors against the
degree of gain that said feature will add. In addition, how much work is it
to add that feature? The programmer's are doubtless paid hourly or by
piecemeal, not standardized salary and even if they were, or were a partner
in the profits, they'd still be thinking "gee, do I really want to sit and
put in the time it takes for THAT feature?" So even though it might be a
really cool idea, these are reasons why it might not be implemented.

Nov 24, 2002, 4:00am

I'd like to be able to set my screen so the top and bottoms can be pulled
back like the way the window's task bar can do. When you bring your mouse
up close they pop out, autohide, that's it. So that I could fly around a
landscape and build without seeing anything else on my screen except the
rendering window. This would be especially useful for screenshots.
Maybe even the chat window could be set to floating so you can park it
wherever on the screen it least disturbs your view and resize it to suit
you, sort like an always-on-top daughter window that can dock.
Ok, how about just putting in a fullscreen mode for the graphics window?
Even still recieve typed text but you can't edit it or see it before you
send it :-) Could go into and out of it by ctrl+shift+home/end keys. Hard
to do by accident but quick by keystroke and memorably tagged to 1st and 3rd
person view.

Nov 29, 2002, 6:17am

I like the idea and I think you covered the bases with it. Probably a major
feature to add though.

Dec 1, 2002, 11:28pm

That's what they're doing. This is how long it takes. try having a little
more patience or go find another company to patronize.


[View Quote]

Dec 27, 2002, 6:17pm

Teach people to turn on their chat log or use their blocks
I use whisper so I can discuss things privately. I dont want even that
listened in on.


[View Quote]

Jan 3, 2003, 1:07am

Right click on their avatar or name in the chat and you can select "mute on
sight". You don't need them in your contacts.
Tourists get in free. This is one of the many marketing ways to encourage
them to pony up the dough for their entertainment.
Remember, that's what this is, entertainment. Even if you do put your whole
world into it.


[View Quote]

Jan 1, 2003, 7:05pm

I'd like to have a little more time to respond and i'd like it to pop up a
dialog of some kind instead because if I'm typing and send chat right when
the green join request comes up it fails and I can't type the y anymore. If
I'm in a telegram window or other IM window I miss it by seconds. that's
annoying. Or maybe to add to the contact list privacy settings people who
can join automatically, people who have to wait for confirm, people who
can't join at all.


[View Quote]

Feb 3, 2004, 7:47am

As a world owner I'd like to be able to use a feature such as that offered
by a chat relay bot but via the browser. I've had terrible luck trying to
use a chat relay bot. I'd like my little world to allow users to chat from
all over the place. Other world owners may wish to decrease the auditory
distance. A feature world owners can set that would set the chat distance
would be a delightful option. I'd just like to be able to set the chat
range manually. Some would set it so you cannot hear farther than a few
meters and others would set it so you can hear world wide, etc.

Nov 30, 2002, 7:01pm

hey, fun, sending newbies in to edit the registry, what a cute idea! (NOT)
when desperately trying to reboot a system with a fuxored registry one can
hold the f8 key during boot to bring up the boot menu and select "boot to
msdos" then type the command scanreg /restore to bring up the backup
registry to restore your system and correct things if you actually try the
advice below and screw it up. Write that down, scanreg /restore


[View Quote]

Dec 1, 2002, 4:02am

Well you're not the only one reading here so I was thinking of people who'd
go in after reading this and play.

[View Quote]

Dec 18, 2002, 7:33am

I've always considered that illustration to be faulty as to my mind whether
it is half full or half empty depends on whether it has been only filled
half way or was full and emptied half way. Examination of the upper part of
the glass for lip prints, water residues or other cues might help if there
is no history in the area to determine it. Ultimately though, the really
interesting question is who's gonna finish drinking it?
I describe myself as a pessimistic optimist, which is to say, the worst
possible thing than can happen probably will but it'll all turn out for best
in the end. :-)



[View Quote]

Dec 19, 2002, 3:27am

and fools seldome differ ~grin~


[View Quote]

Dec 20, 2002, 12:52am

thanks, that was fun
[View Quote]

Feb 2, 2003, 6:54pm

andras has an app, dos CLI based, which will convert that cell.dat to a
propdump It's called awdat2dmp


[View Quote]

Feb 8, 2003, 6:40pm

Letting tourists go to alphaworld but not build might be good. That'd
require a change to build rights but such a change would do a world of good.
time to change it so you can let everyone except 0 build! Then tourists
would have MUCH more incentive to pay because they could see what they're
missing!
Think of it, if they could explore anywhere and chat with anyone in any
world, but they couldn't build unless they paid, wouldn't that work nice?
The price is a bit hard, but clearly many of us consider it affordable,
we're here!

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