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Oct 29, 2005, 10:13pm

Job Type -

* C/C++
* PHP
* Virtual Reality
* Website Design

Job Overview -

Develop C++ bot(s) or application(s) with PHP Web page support for a
private, free game world. Would prefer coders who are intimately
familiar with Active Worlds and its functionality and limits. Will only
consider people who are EXCELLENT coders, who are eager to explore a new
3d gaming adventure and who are excited about contributing to the
creation of something/someplace cool in AW!

You'll be hired to create bot(s) that will work in conjunction with the
new version (not yet released!) active worlds SDK:
http://www.activeworlds.com/sdk/
You will also need PHP(?) and HTML/Web design skills for creating a
remotely-updated, game-related Web pages.

Important Note: Due to the gaming requirements of the bot and AWs
ever-changing functionality, the application must allow changes to be
made by non-programmers at a later date. Although the Preston is far too
limited in its uses, please reference the Preston bot for an idea of the
type of GUI that is preferred: http://www.imabot.com/preston.htm

-----

Bot Requirements -

Basic World Monitoring:
- All basic, built-in, AW world-monitoring functions

Chat:
- global chat or a /shout command, "titles" after player names (CT, PS,
B, etc), basic chat monitor with swear words/caps/flooding check and
eject function, /home, /join, /ban, /gate and other location commands, etc.

Weather:
- bot-controlled, rotating weather and sky functions

Gaming:
- (details disclosed after contract signing)

RPG Elements:
Creation of a basic RPG set-up which includes:
- a monetary system
- ability to find, pick up and store objects
- sell, buy, and trade with other players and banks
(additional details disclosed after contract signing)

System backbone:
Global bot management system / PHP Web Page with the ability to maintain
scores, money and items for the entire world. System is accessible via
webpage and inworld commands. Includes an API to adjust avatars, scores,
money, and items from other programs.

Budget:
- Negotiable! - Willing to pay a fair price for an excellent, original
application!

Wish List:
The IDEAL bot(s) will combine:
- the ease-of-use/ease of programming of the Preston Bot
http://www.imabot.com/preston.htm
- the script-handling and world monitoring capabilities of the Xelagot
http://www.imatowns.com/xelagot/
- the overall flexibility of the Magsbot
http://www.turtleflight.com/magine/mb.html

This project requires the creation of a NEW, never before shared
application. Near-clones of the above, already-existing programs will
NOT be considered!

Do you think you can create such a creature?

-----

Business Requirements

1) Fully documented source is needed.
2) This is an exclusive-use project with the buyer retaining full,
exclusive rights to copyright, use and re-sell the project.
3) Project time frame: After your bid is accepted and details are
negotiated, 120 days to demo plus 60 more to completion.
4) Once your bid is accepted and all aspects are negotiated, your bid
cannot change.
5) 50% of negotiated price will be placed in an escrow account
immediately after bid acceptance. The remaining 50% will be placed in to
the same escrow account after the first demo. Payment in full will be
released to the programmer upon satisfactory completion of project.

Contact: 357730 at programmer.net

Please post here or send an email (with bid) if interested!

Oct 30, 2005, 5:45am

[View Quote] Like the dope you've been smoking, right?!

I've received 3 email bids thus far, all from VERY TIP-TOP QUALITY,
well-known AW bot creators. The VERY highest was ... well, let's just
say you're not THAT great of a programmer, from what I've been told. ;)

Thanks for the chuckle.

[View Quote]

Oct 30, 2005, 6:47am

[View Quote] And, you didn't have to be so ridiculous! :)

Oct 30, 2005, 8:15pm

Hello, Andras!


And, we would be willing to pay that ... *if* whoever we hire were
willing to fly to our location and work under our direct supervision for
6 months.

$20.00 is the going rate for a US-based, per-hour programmer who will
work on NOTHING else for 8 hours a day while under my employ.

I telecommute and work on a contract basis as well, and I might be
handling 5 or 6 different customers, all who are paying me
simultaneously. That said, I rarely dedicate 8 SOLID hours a day, 5 days
a week to one single project, and I seriously doubt that anyone in my
position does either! :)


That's too bad. We would have hoped to include you in our list of
potential programmers.


>
>
> Reasonable price! (though I would charge more)
>
> Don't forget - he asks for exclusive rights for such a bot Xelag and
> Faber developed for years.
> I did not even enter to this contest because people just never respect
> the work and quality you put into the project.
>

Oct 31, 2005, 4:19pm

kf said: "You really find there programmers, I mean professionals, who
do it for a living, who work for 20.00$/hour?"

-----

No. Not here. Here -- like every other place in the US -- professional
programmers make between $50 and $80 per hour. The average, for the US
hovers at around $44,000 a year for programmers. --
http://tms.ecol.net/jobs/asc3.htm

However, that rate is for a professional, exclusive-use programmer who
is working for a corporation, usually in-house, on a retail venture or
corporate project. Specialized consultants, of course, make much, much
more ... but, they also have 20+ years experience.

What we're talking about here and high school students who are still in
classes, can only work part-time, will surely be doing other tasks on my
time, who aren't even making $10.00 an hour at present, who will be
working on a game venture that will bring me no revenue.

These playing fields are entirely different, as are the hourly rates.
And, they should be.

If any of the "professional" programmers here can do better than to make
a few thousand dollars for 6 months of part-time, leisurely work, I
challenge them to do so. I don't, however, see any of AWs current
"professional programmers" selling any of their work to the community or
making any money whatsoever from their programming ventures.

So, what I propose is a win-win situation, for everyone:

- I win by hiring a programmer for a reasonable rate.
- The programmer wins by making money that they would not otherwise be
making, doing something they enjoy.
- The community wins by having a new, exciting, free-to-visit world with
a coll bot.

And, of course, should I not find what I need here, in the AW community,
amongst those who *should* be benefiting from my offer and who know the
ins-and-outs of bot making for the AW SDK, I will continue to plan b,
which DOES include tapping the Indian market for a programmer. :)

[View Quote]

Nov 1, 2005, 12:46am

Now, Mark. Don't get all in a snit because you were quickly dismissed as
a potential employee.

One thing you are not (nor have ever been, to my recollection) is
modest. Nor are you a bad coder. To the contrary, you are one of the
best with the AW SDK. This has never been in dispute.

However, this does not mean that you are valuable to me as an employee.
The same bad attitude that makes you stand out here at the forum is the
one that will make you a severe liability in the job market and to me,
as your potential employer.

Your "evidence collected thus far"? What, exactly, do do you mean, Mark?
Since you do not have access to our email inbox, are we to assume that
you're inferring -- since we have not chosen YOU above all others --
that we're now "screwed" ... as you so eloquently stated in your email
to us?

free world
You bet! We've got it like that. :)

Indeed! We would like the very best of the best in bots. This includes
having some (not all) of the features present in the AW community's
presently used bots. Are you inferring that what we are doing -- wanting
to improve upon the already existing bots -- is a bad thing? How strange!

Exactly! This is the true measure of a coder's ability to create an
application for today's user base ... "ease of use". Not everyone is a
coder, and we're smart enough to realize that our users will not be
coders, either. This is why, if we were to tally up the numbers, we
would find that of all of the existing bots, the Preston bot far
outshines the Xelagot or the Magsbot in number of downloads! It's
probably due to that sneaky little element ... "ease of use"!

On the contrary! We know that our best hope for a reasonably-priced,
talented coder lies in AWs already-existing, "student" population. We
currently have two coders in our employ, both of them still in high
school! The only student we've dismissed thus far as a potential lead
coder is you, Mark.

When we first opened the job, we opted to post publicly and give all of
the AW coding community an opportunity to comment and bid, even though
you, specifically, were someone we had our doubts about. After just 2
days, you eliminated yourself from the possibilities, not based on your
purported coding skills (which, we're hear are exemplary), but, based
solely on your poor attitude and unwillingness to see anything past your
own self as having any importance or worth. We are building a TEAM, and,
we think it unwise to hire someone who -- from the very outset -- is
showing themselves to be so very unwilling to play well with others.

We've received many, many emails from coders who are not nearly as
"expert" as you are with the AW SDK, but, I can assure you -- they stand
a much better chance of being hired, not only by us, but by the job
market in general, based upon their overall demeanor.

warey of your motives as there is no apparent logic behind them that any
of us can see...

*shrug* Feel free to think what you wish. We are exactly what we present
ourselves to be, no more, no less. Time and our actions will tell the
tale. We have no agenda, aside from that which we have already stated.

We want to hire exceptional coders to build an exceptional bot.

Feel free to email if interested with comments, questions or resumes.

357730
357730 at programmer.net





[View Quote]

Nov 2, 2005, 6:16am

Hello, Lady NightHawk!

> BTW I sure hope you'd consider my envirobox over current aw type skyboxes or
> backdrops. My envirobox (my skybox on steroids ;o} ) allows the user to have
> a mountain scene (for instance) but the sky part is transparent so the user
> can use aw's sky colors plus clouds, stars, etc.

This is one feature of the world that we're obsessing on. One thing we
want is as realistic a sky (enviro!) as possible!

> My envirobox idea rocks (although admittedly others may have thought of it
> also LOL) ... you can see it in action at Aeon, better yet gram me when you
> see me on and I'll give you a *demonstration* ... the envirobox is FREE for
> d/l at my site (you can find that from that aw IE browser when you arrive in
> Aeon, once there go to the gallery, the envirobox in my world is EnviroSet2
> or something like that).

We have seen your envirobox in use before, but, would like to come take
another look! We'll make sure to add it to the list of possibles, and
come back to check it out again really soon! That's a promise!

> I can of course make *more* if needed.

MORE is always good! We may want to consider a "custom" set of
backdrops. Can you create such a thing?

One of my skyboxes is currently in use in a real game made in Germany :o}

Congratulations! Although, your use of the phrase 'real game' made me
chuckle! AW *is* a real game ... kinda! ;)

Thanks for your comments!

Nov 7, 2005, 2:59pm

Hello, TheNorm!

Actually, if you get REALLY lucky, you can find someone who will do
freelance work, for cash, for even less!

We just hired a local coder (in the SF Bay Area) who will be working for
us for $10.00/hour, ca$h money.

The free market is a WONDERFUL thing ... for everyone. :)

[View Quote]

Nov 8, 2005, 2:23pm

Hello, Norm!

Thanks for taking the time to respond to our post.

I'll respond the same way that I did to your email :) by reiterating
what I said above, (in response to kf, who said said: "You really find
there programmers, I mean professionals, who do it for a living, who
work for 20.00$/hour?")

----------

Here -- like every other place in the US -- professional programmers
make between $50 and $80 per hour. The average, for the US hovers at
around $44,000 a year for programmers. --
http://tms.ecol.net/jobs/asc3.htm

However, that rate is for a professional, exclusive-use programmer
who is working for a corporation, usually in-house, on a retail
venture or corporate project. Specialized consultants, of course,
make much, much more ... but, they also have 20+ years experience. :)

What we're talking about here are high school students who are still
in classes, can only work part-time, will surely be doing other tasks
on my time, who aren't even making $10.00 an hour at present, who
will be working on a game venture that will bring me no revenue.

These playing fields are entirely different, as are the hourly rates.
And, they should be!

If any of the "professional" programmers here can do better than to
make a few thousand dollars for 6 months of part-time, leisurely
work, I challenge them to do so. I don't, however, see any of AWs
current "professional programmers" selling any of their work to the
community or making any money whatsoever from their programming
ventures.

So, what I propose is a win-win situation, for everyone:

- I win by hiring a programmer for a reasonable rate.
- The programmer wins by making money that they would not otherwise
be making, doing something they enjoy.
- The community wins by having a new, exciting, free-to-visit world
with a coll bot.

And, of course, should I not find what I need here, in the AW
community, amongst those who *should* be benefiting from my offer and
who know the ins-and-outs of bot making for the AW SDK, I will
continue to plan b, which DOES include tapping the Indian market for
a programmer. (Update: Actually, we have been able to find help right
here in the good, old USA for between $10.00 and $20.00 per hour.)

Of course, the term "coder" might be offensive to YOU, but, the people
on the biggest coding freelancing sites out there, like:
www.rentacoder.com
and
www.getcoder.com
don't seem to be offended by either the title "coder" OR by the $10.00
or $20.00 they're asking for. :)

Thanks for your comments, Norm.

----------

[View Quote]

Nov 9, 2005, 4:52am

Pardon?

Are you assuming that WE are paying "a specialized consultant (who
makes) much, much more" ???

That would be a wrong assumption.

That would also be the second time you've told us "you are screwed".

Why is everyone who doesn't agree with you "screwed", Mark?

Just curious. :)

[View Quote]

Nov 9, 2005, 12:07pm

[View Quote] Then, why haven't you?

Nov 26, 2005, 8:25am

[View Quote] Although we've already hired a team of lead programmers from outside of
the AW community (as well as two VERY inexperienced "baby" programmers),
we would be happy to add you to the team as well! More heads are better
than less! Your AW experience will be valuable!

All I ask for is a one year citizenship renewal. $70.

Done. Please send an email to the team at 357730 at programmer.net and
we'll work out the details. Also, if your programming contribution
starts to increase beyond what you think is reasonable for what we've
traded, we are open to negotiating additional payment for your time.

Cheapest offer you've had yet eh?

Actually, one person offered to help if we would erect a huge sign in
the world that read "Bot created by XXXX". :)

Don't think I am a bad programmer because I don't ask for much.
That thought was never even a consideration. :) We just figured that 1)
you like programming and 2) you're willing to trade somethin you need
for doing what you're already doing on a daily basis.

Thanks for replying!

Oct 29, 2005, 10:23pm

Job Type -

* C/C++
* PHP
* Virtual Reality
* Website Design

Job Overview -

Develop C++ bot(s) or application(s) with PHP Web page support for a
private, free game world. Would prefer coders who are intimately
familiar with Active Worlds and its functionality and limits. Will only
consider people who are EXCELLENT coders, who are eager to explore a new
3d gaming adventure and who are excited about contributing to the
creation of something/someplace cool in AW!

You'll be hired to create bot(s) that will work in conjunction with the
new version (not yet released!) active worlds SDK:
http://www.activeworlds.com/sdk/
You will also need PHP(?) and HTML/Web design skills for creating a
remotely-updated, game-related Web pages.

Important Note: Due to the gaming requirements of the bot and AWs
ever-changing functionality, the application must allow changes to be
made by non-programmers at a later date. Although the Preston is far too
limited in its uses, please reference the Preston bot for an idea of the
type of GUI that is preferred: http://www.imabot.com/preston.htm

-----

Bot Requirements -

Basic World Monitoring:
- All basic, built-in, AW world-monitoring functions

Chat:
- global chat or a /shout command, "titles" after player names (CT, PS,
B, etc), basic chat monitor with swear words/caps/flooding check and
eject function, /home, /join, /ban, /gate and other location commands, etc.

Weather:
- bot-controlled, rotating weather and sky functions

Gaming:
- (details disclosed after contract signing)

RPG Elements:
Creation of a basic RPG set-up which includes:
- a monetary system
- ability to find, pick up and store objects
- sell, buy, and trade with other players and banks
(additional details disclosed after contract signing)

System backbone:
Global bot management system / PHP Web Page with the ability to maintain
scores, money and items for the entire world. System is accessible via
webpage and inworld commands. Includes an API to adjust avatars, scores,
money, and items from other programs.

Budget:
- Negotiable! - Willing to pay a fair price for an excellent, original
application!

Wish List:
The IDEAL bot(s) will combine:
- the ease-of-use/ease of programming of the Preston Bot
http://www.imabot.com/preston.htm
- the script-handling and world monitoring capabilities of the Xelagot
http://www.imatowns.com/xelagot/
- the overall flexibility of the Magsbot
http://www.turtleflight.com/magine/mb.html

This project requires the creation of a NEW, never before shared
application. Near-clones of the above, already-existing programs will
NOT be considered!

Do you think you can create such a creature?

-----

Business Requirements

1) Fully documented source is needed.
2) This is an exclusive-use project with the buyer retaining full,
exclusive rights to copyright, use and re-sell the project.
3) Project time frame: After your bid is accepted and details are
negotiated, 120 days to demo plus 60 more to completion.
4) Once your bid is accepted and all aspects are negotiated, your bid
cannot change.
5) 50% of negotiated price will be placed in an escrow account
immediately after bid acceptance. The remaining 50% will be placed in to
the same escrow account after the first demo. Payment in full will be
released to the programmer upon satisfactory completion of project.

Contact: 357730 at programmer.net

Please post here or send an email (with bid) if interested!

Oct 29, 2005, 10:26pm

Job Type -

* C/C++
* PHP
* Virtual Reality
* Website Design

Job Overview -

Develop C++ bot(s) or application(s) with PHP Web page support for a
private, free game world. Would prefer coders who are intimately
familiar with Active Worlds and its functionality and limits. Will only
consider people who are EXCELLENT coders, who are eager to explore a new
3d gaming adventure and who are excited about contributing to the
creation of something/someplace cool in AW!

You'll be hired to create bot(s) that will work in conjunction with the
new version (not yet released!) active worlds SDK:
http://www.activeworlds.com/sdk/
You will also need PHP(?) and HTML/Web design skills for creating a
remotely-updated, game-related Web pages.

Important Note: Due to the gaming requirements of the bot and AWs
ever-changing functionality, the application must allow changes to be
made by non-programmers at a later date. Although the Preston is far too
limited in its uses, please reference the Preston bot for an idea of the
type of GUI that is preferred: http://www.imabot.com/preston.htm

-----

Bot Requirements -

Basic World Monitoring:
- All basic, built-in, AW world-monitoring functions

Chat:
- global chat or a /shout command, "titles" after player names (CT, PS,
B, etc), basic chat monitor with swear words/caps/flooding check and
eject function, /home, /join, /ban, /gate and other location commands, etc.

Weather:
- bot-controlled, rotating weather and sky functions

Gaming:
- (details disclosed after contract signing)

RPG Elements:
Creation of a basic RPG set-up which includes:
- a monetary system
- ability to find, pick up and store objects
- sell, buy, and trade with other players and banks
(additional details disclosed after contract signing)

System backbone:
Global bot management system / PHP Web Page with the ability to maintain
scores, money and items for the entire world. System is accessible via
webpage and inworld commands. Includes an API to adjust avatars, scores,
money, and items from other programs.

Budget:
- Negotiable! - Willing to pay a fair price for an excellent, original
application!

Wish List:
The IDEAL bot(s) will combine:
- the ease-of-use/ease of programming of the Preston Bot
http://www.imabot.com/preston.htm
- the script-handling and world monitoring capabilities of the Xelagot
http://www.imatowns.com/xelagot/
- the overall flexibility of the Magsbot
http://www.turtleflight.com/magine/mb.html

This project requires the creation of a NEW, never before shared
application. Near-clones of the above, already-existing programs will
NOT be considered!

Do you think you can create such a creature?

-----

Business Requirements

1) Fully documented source is needed.
2) This is an exclusive-use project with the buyer retaining full,
exclusive rights to copyright, use and re-sell the project.
3) Project time frame: After your bid is accepted and details are
negotiated, 120 days to demo plus 60 more to completion.
4) Once your bid is accepted and all aspects are negotiated, your bid
cannot change.
5) 50% of negotiated price will be placed in an escrow account
immediately after bid acceptance. The remaining 50% will be placed in to
the same escrow account after the first demo. Payment in full will be
released to the programmer upon satisfactory completion of project.

Contact: 357730 at programmer.net

Oct 30, 2005, 5:47am

Thanks! Easier to remember our cit# this way. ;)

[View Quote]

Oct 30, 2005, 7:21pm

Hello, Mark.

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my post.

Your price tag is right in line with most of the bids we've been
receiving, both inside the AW community and out. Overall, the bids we're
receiving outside of AW are a bit LOWER, but, I believe this is
primarily due to people being unfamilar with the AW SDK and the
associated learning curve.

I also agree that there are very few, REALLY exceptional C++, SDK
programmers out there. I would include all of the people that you
mentioned on that list (including yourself).

When I said "something unlike Preston, Xelagot or Magsbot", that was
said with the greatest respect for those existing applications. We've
used all of those bots for years and they each of them have many
positive qualities that nobody has -- thus far -- been able to duplicate.

We simply wanted to make VERY clear that what we are NOT looking for is
a clone or an add-on script. We want an ORIGINAL, high-quality
application, and, we are willing to both wait and pay to get that. What
we want is to create the "next generation" of AW bot, and, we know that
the talent exists out there to create such an app (hence, this post).

As I said, the IDEAL bot will combine the ease-of-use of the Preston
Bot, the script-handling and world monitoring capabilities of the
Xelagot and the the overall flexibility of the Magsbot.

We believe our design strategy is sound, and we await programmers who
are confident that they can be the ones to bring our vision in to being.

Thank again for your response.

-----

[View Quote]

Oct 31, 2005, 8:03pm

Hello, equin0x:

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

free of

I've been in AW since 1995 and have been an AW citizen since 1996. After
all is said and done, I still think AW offers the best options for
combining both gaming AND community in one application. Call me crazy. :)

Strike, so I

We're not only looking for good programming skills. We're also looking
for a positive attitude and good outlook towards creating a cool game.
In those areas, you are more than capable of competing with Mister
Strike Rapier. ;)


We have a ton of positions available, and we're posting here to 'test
the waters', so to speak. We're looking to build a TEAM. We anticipate
this project taking anywhere from 6 months to a year, so, we're not in a
hurry.

in game

Would you be willing to consider a position in story/plot development
for a series of quests?


I've also copied this post to your above email address.

Thanks again for your post, Josh!

357730

Oct 31, 2005, 8:07pm

[View Quote] Your email was bounced back. :/

Oct 31, 2005, 8:40pm

[View Quote] Correct. This is a new cit#. That doesn't prohibit me from having more
than one account, does it? ;)

Nov 1, 2005, 4:43pm

[View Quote] Secrecy? What makes you think I am anyone but who I purport to be?
Just because my AW user name is a number rather than a name doesn't make
me any more "secretive" than if my name were "poseidon", does it?
Or, is your name REALLY Poseidon? ;)

I can assure you, once people agree to sign a contract and begin work,
they are fully aware of who they are dealing with.

Until then, the only information germaine to this forum is this: We are
new owners. We have a new world. We want to build a new bot. We are
looking for employees.

Don't read anything more in to this than is necessary.

You have a contact email if you're interested. :)

357730 at programmer.net

Nov 1, 2005, 5:17pm

[View Quote]
Did you ever consider that maybe ...
1 - We don't want people to see the name of the world we're building
just yet,

and ...

2 - We're kind of busy and haven't the time for tgrams?

Please remember, is was US who started this communication thread. Our
communication path has always been wide open. You have a forum. You have
an email address.

Perhaps it is YOU who is paranoid? ;)

Nov 2, 2005, 6:05am

Hello, Vera!

Below, an email we just sent to someone within the AW community. Perhaps
this will calm everyone's fears. :)

--------------------

Hello, XXXXXX!

Thanks for taking the time to send an email. We're finding that it's
much easier for us to communicate with everyone via email or in the
forum, at the long day's end!

Let me preface my below comments by saying this: Your curiosity is to
be expected, as '357730' is an entirely unknown entity. But, we also
must admit that EVERYONE within the AW community is also just as
"unknown" as far as their true identities go! We are, after all,
avatars and screennames, correct?

That said, I can assure you that our "other" user names would also be
as equally unknown in the forum! We are NOT anyone high-profile, we
don't have a "history" in the forum or in AW. We don't know very many
people at all, actually! We're just "common folk" who are AW friends
turned IRL friends ... and we have the financial means and the
long-standing love of AW to create something cool. It's really that
simple.

'357730' represents a group, albeit a small one. The name was chosen
because -- quite frankly -- we thought it quite cool! Cit number
357730 ... that's all. That's who we are. As far as our 'actions' and
history in AW? This is it. This is the first time that our group, as
it stands, has come together to create a world. And, who we are as
individuals? That's just unimportant. However, you can be assured
that we are 1) adults 2) responsible 3) respectful and 4) have
honorable intentions. That's all that matters, in our opinion.

We've already hired 2 programmers and 2 modellers. Suffice to say, in
order to sign a contract and for us to pay them, they had to know our
true names, first and last. That's when it matters, correct? When
it's time to collect the pay check? :)

Thank you for your concern for the community and your interest in our
project.

--------------------

[View Quote]

Nov 2, 2005, 6:08am

[View Quote] We apologize if the type of name we've chosen is causing you some
discomfort, SW Comit. We kind of like it! It's simple, to the point, and
everyone knows our cit# at a glance ... GREAT if we decide to get unruly
at the gate! ;)

Nov 2, 2005, 11:32pm

[View Quote] Hello, Anduin! Good sleuthing! :)


That would be one of our group as well!


What's next? Why, the same thing, of course! Just because you now know
some of our members' other screen names doesn't change a thing!

We are STILL a group of new owners, still have a new world, still want
to build a new bot ... and are still looking to hire coders!

The same as it ever was! :)

Nov 1, 2005, 12:46am

Now, Mark. Don't get all in a snit because you were quickly dismissed as
a potential employee.

One thing you are not (nor have ever been, to my recollection) is
modest. Nor are you a bad coder. To the contrary, you are one of the
best with the AW SDK. This has never been in dispute.

However, this does not mean that you are valuable to me as an employee.
The same bad attitude that makes you stand out here at the forum is the
one that will make you a severe liability in the job market and to me,
as your potential employer.

Your "evidence collected thus far"? What, exactly, do do you mean, Mark?
Since you do not have access to our email inbox, are we to assume that
you're inferring -- since we have not chosen YOU above all others --
that we're now "screwed" ... as you so eloquently stated in your email
to us?

free world
You bet! We've got it like that. :)

Indeed! We would like the very best of the best in bots. This includes
having some (not all) of the features present in the AW community's
presently used bots. Are you inferring that what we are doing -- wanting
to improve upon the already existing bots -- is a bad thing? How strange!

Exactly! This is the true measure of a coder's ability to create an
application for today's user base ... "ease of use". Not everyone is a
coder, and we're smart enough to realize that our users will not be
coders, either. This is why, if we were to tally up the numbers, we
would find that of all of the existing bots, the Preston bot far
outshines the Xelagot or the Magsbot in number of downloads! It's
probably due to that sneaky little element ... "ease of use"!

On the contrary! We know that our best hope for a reasonably-priced,
talented coder lies in AWs already-existing, "student" population. We
currently have two coders in our employ, both of them still in high
school! The only student we've dismissed thus far as a potential lead
coder is you, Mark.

When we first opened the job, we opted to post publicly and give all of
the AW coding community an opportunity to comment and bid, even though
you, specifically, were someone we had our doubts about. After just 2
days, you eliminated yourself from the possibilities, not based on your
purported coding skills (which, we're hear are exemplary), but, based
solely on your poor attitude and unwillingness to see anything past your
own self as having any importance or worth. We are building a TEAM, and,
we think it unwise to hire someone who -- from the very outset -- is
showing themselves to be so very unwilling to play well with others.

We've received many, many emails from coders who are not nearly as
"expert" as you are with the AW SDK, but, I can assure you -- they stand
a much better chance of being hired, not only by us, but by the job
market in general, based upon their overall demeanor.

warey of your motives as there is no apparent logic behind them that any
of us can see...

*shrug* Feel free to think what you wish. We are exactly what we present
ourselves to be, no more, no less. Time and our actions will tell the
tale. We have no agenda, aside from that which we have already stated.

We want to hire exceptional coders to build an exceptional bot.

Feel free to email if interested with comments, questions or resumes.

357730
357730 at programmer.net





[View Quote]

Nov 2, 2005, 6:16am

Hello, Lady NightHawk!

> BTW I sure hope you'd consider my envirobox over current aw type skyboxes or
> backdrops. My envirobox (my skybox on steroids ;o} ) allows the user to have
> a mountain scene (for instance) but the sky part is transparent so the user
> can use aw's sky colors plus clouds, stars, etc.

This is one feature of the world that we're obsessing on. One thing we
want is as realistic a sky (enviro!) as possible!

> My envirobox idea rocks (although admittedly others may have thought of it
> also LOL) ... you can see it in action at Aeon, better yet gram me when you
> see me on and I'll give you a *demonstration* ... the envirobox is FREE for
> d/l at my site (you can find that from that aw IE browser when you arrive in
> Aeon, once there go to the gallery, the envirobox in my world is EnviroSet2
> or something like that).

We have seen your envirobox in use before, but, would like to come take
another look! We'll make sure to add it to the list of possibles, and
come back to check it out again really soon! That's a promise!

> I can of course make *more* if needed.

MORE is always good! We may want to consider a "custom" set of
backdrops. Can you create such a thing?

One of my skyboxes is currently in use in a real game made in Germany :o}

Congratulations! Although, your use of the phrase 'real game' made me
chuckle! AW *is* a real game ... kinda! ;)

Thanks for your comments!

Nov 9, 2005, 5:33am

[View Quote] Agreed! :)

Dec 4, 2005, 5:42pm

What I find distressful in all of these 'Freebie' posts is this:

Nobody has mentioned the possibility that *AWI* should host Freebies for
the community!

We, as dedicated, loyal AW COMMUNITY MEMBERS, have contributed many,
many years of paid citizenships, costly world ownerships, freely donated
objects, avatars and bots, helpful Websites, utility programs, fan
sites, newsgroups, etc ... to the success of the AW application.

AW's COMMUNITY MEMBERS (that means you and I) have also donated our
time, effort and creativity to creating worlds in AW that have cost us
thousands of dollars and hours. The worlds that we've created as a
COMMUNITY have brought new visitors to AW and, in a lot of cases, kept
those new visitors here to create new citizenships.

Without *you and I* building worlds, avatars, objects and bots that are
of interest, I suspect that AW's world list would consist of a long line
of empty, 3-d chat rooms! And, after 10 years of world building and free
object, avatar, bot and world donations, Active Worlds, Inc. has been
the sole financial beneficiary of our enthisuasm and long-standing
loyalty to their application and their vision.

Perhaps someone who has "connections" withing the Active Worlds
insider's group should approach AWI and ask if they might be willing to
host Freebies for their Loyal Community Members and Fans?

I, for one, think we are due a big freebie ... compliments of AWI. :)

--------------------

[View Quote]

Dec 4, 2005, 7:52pm

[View Quote] First, to answer your query: To my knowledge, Objectd' world and the
associated Web site (www.awcommunity.org/objects/) are NOT owned by AWI.
They are just another one of hundreds of Active Worlds fan Web sites and
worlds that are privately owned (and financed) by AW citizens.

Aside from the original 10-or-so, 10 YEAR OLD avatars, it is AW's
COMMUNITY MEMBERS who are donating all of the creativity, time,
knowledge, avatars, objects, textures, bots, utilities, fan sites,
newsgroup posts, game ideas (I could go on and on) that have made and
continue to make AW what it is today.

I invite you to take a close look at www.activeworlds.com.
AW's contribution is, of course, the browser and the original,
10-year-old avatar/object content. :)

ALL other links are listed as: '3rd Party Products':
"These products and tools were not developed nor are they supported by
Activeworlds. We provide these as a courtesy. Thanks to: Andras , Ima
Genius , MicroMouse Productions & Fyrene. (etc, etc)

Another page of note is the 'community' ... 'organizations' page.
This is where we see that AW is run almost exclusively by a community of
VOLUNTEERS (again, you and I).

Also, take a look at the 'community ... 'resources' page.
You'll see that all AW 'resources' offered (aside from the SDK) are,
again, resources that originated and were developed OUTSIDE of AW, Inc.
and have been offered for free by ... you guessed it ... THE COMMUNITY
MEMBERS!

Of course, they did just offer us a rebate if we've been citizens since
before 2002. That bears mentioning, I suppose. :/

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