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Sep 2, 2001, 2:49pm

I didn't refuse any offer for refund. That is not true. I will accept the
refund. That is the whole point in me bringing it up in Jan, it's the
reason I brought it up in NG earlier on, and it is why I am here now
discussing it.

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Sep 2, 2001, 2:51pm

If Active Worlds is going to refund my citizenships, let's see them do it!!

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Sep 2, 2001, 10:25pm

"He offered to integrate your existing cit as the world
cit, meaning it would be renewed when you renewed your world, and you'd
saved your 20 bucks at the end of the day"

Then he should have asked for $60 not $80, because I paid $20 already. Do
the math 80-20=60, 60 being the difference owed.

If I made a file for someone and charged them $20, and they later they came
to me weeks after asking for me to make them a website I would take the file
I made them, use that in the website and charge them $20 less that what I
would have because they already paid for that file. I would create a new
file and charge them $20. Now that is being stubborn and that is what
Active Worlds is doing. They only want money, and they won't see that I
ALREADY PAID FOR A CITIZENSHIP, I don't need 2 just like the person may not
need 2 files I make them for their site.


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Sep 2, 2001, 10:26pm

CORRECTION - I would NOT HAVE created a new file and charge them $20 again.

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Sep 3, 2001, 2:43pm

Do you renew your driver's license for the next year 3 weeks after getting
this years license?

Now let me show you some basic math kah

Do the math(I rounded the numbers):

$80 (world with citizenship)
-$20 citizenship (already paid)
______________________________
$60 remaining balance (This is the situation NOW)

If I want to continue after the year, then I would renew. That is the point
of "renewing". You have COMPLETED one period of time, so you will then
RENEW. If I was going to pay for 2 years of one citizenship, I would have
to "RENEW", Active Worlds would have charged something like this:

$100 (world with just the citizenship for 2 years)
-$20 citizenship (already paid)
______________________________
$80 remaining balance (This is the situation I would be faced with
assuming Flagg was accurate in saying he made the offer you are presenting
back in Jan. How different is than me getting a world and a citizen at the
end of this year? It would still be $100. I just don't see how me paying
$100 upfront is going to save anything. I have only paid $20 now for this.
Looks like I saved $80 by Active Worlds not allowing me to buy a world for
$60.

I do not see an email, a NG post, nor do I see an .html page that reflects
the second scenario which doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. Why
would I want to pay 3 citizenship fees upfront(especially after having given
them $40 for 2 citizenships when I only needed 1)?

Now addressing renewal, you are 4 months early because I have til December
to "renew" anything. In January, it would have been 11 months. When you
renew something, you do it at the time period it is expiring, so I wouldn't
be looking or expecting any kind of renewal offer til around December of
2001 when I might get a notice from Active Worlds saying something like,
"Dear valued citizen (ROFL), we noticed your citizenship is about to expire,
would you like to renew your citizenship? To do so, blah blah blah"

In any event, I didn't want a renewal of something I didn't even use for a
month. That is rediculous. Do you renew your driver's license for the next
year 3 weeks after getting this years license?



[View Quote]

Sep 3, 2001, 2:46pm

CORRECTION - Looks like I saved $80 by Active Worlds not allowing me to pay
the remaining portion ($60) which I haven't given them for a world costing
$80.

I would be more than happy to, now when is that offer going to cross the
table?

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Sep 3, 2001, 6:00pm

I never said it was each year. However, I have to pay it at some point.
Whether I pay it now or when Active Worlds allows me to pay $60, using $20 I
already gave them for a world is the issue.

You seem to totally miss the boat here.

"In any event, I didn't want a renewal of something I didn't even use for a
month. That is rediculous. Do you renew your driver's license for the next
year 3 weeks after getting this years license?" - I think this sums it up
pretty well


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Sep 4, 2001, 2:49pm

I have said do the math several times, and to be equally fair here please
show me how you feel I am getting some "golden offer" and I will look at the
numbers. Just show the numbers, and show me the math cause I think that
will help you see I am not saving anything at all by simply "prepaying" 3
citizenships. I already tried showing you with what I paid, $20, and taking
that out of $80 for the cost of the cheapest world leaving $60. It seems
simple enough.

I have also tried to see where you are coming from by paying $120 to somehow
be golden for me. It just doesn't add up. A world cost $80, I have given
them $40. I wanted one of the citizenships to be applied towards a world
and be charged the difference ($60). They still would have received $100
total from me for 2 citizenships and a discounted world at $60. I have only
used the other citizenship for 5 hours, barely used. It was a waste of an
account and I wasn't able to use it effectively the way I intended. But
again, this has nothing to do with refunding $40 even though active worlds
gets to keep the extra citizenship. This has to do with simply letting me
use one of my citizenships in a world. That would have saved me money.
Refunding the extra citizenship would have been nice but I wouldn't have
asked for that. I would have given it to someone in the world if
Activeworlds gave me the discount on it. And who knows, that person may
have wanted to get a world of their own and that would have been 2 sales of
worlds Active Worlds missed out on. Now, enough of that, I'll wait to see
your logic in humbers why I am getting a golden offer by simply prepaying.

"where do you get the "3 citizen fees" thing?"
I bought 2 citizenships, you are arguing I should have bought a world at
FULL price which includes a citizenship and that would have been the third
citizenship. Well, I only need one. I don't have 3 computers or 2 bots use
for those accounts. Instead of 1 wasted citizenships, I would have had 2
wasted citizenships. When you make a mistake once, why do it twice? Why
not learn from it the first time.

Assuming my citizenships were only used to renew then I wouldn't have to
renew til December 2003 (3 citizenships: 2000-2001, 2001-2002, 2002-2003).
Is this what flagg was offering? cause if he did I totally missed it, and
yes it would have been at least an opportunity. I don't know about golden
since it is merely prepayment without any deal like 25 for 3 year
citizenship. However, it would have shown that Active Worlds recognized I
signed up with their program and in doing so I didn't see a menu of choices
at the time of registering. I thought a citizenship and world were seperate
when in fact a world includes a citizenship and I WOULD NOT HAVE BOUGHT 2
citizenships. There was no reason for me LOOKING at the registration window
launched by the register now button to think I could get a world with a
citizenship saving me $20. It just isn't there and that is what I would
like active worlds do in the future.

You want to talk about golden opportunity, that is a "golden offer" HONESTY
and openness at the time and PLACE someone types in their credit card
number.

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Sep 4, 2001, 4:26pm

correction; "I don't know about golden since it is merely prepayment without
any deal like 55 for 3 year citizenship."

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Sep 4, 2001, 10:52pm

No, that is not what I am saying. If you bought 4 citizenships and I was
activeworlds, and after 3 weeks you came to me requesting 1 ($20)
citizenship be used with the purchase of an $80 world, I would charge you
$60 and not give you a citizen with the world. One of the 4 would carryover
since you ALREADY PAID for that 1. The other 3 would be negotiable if you
bought a bigger world, thus giving me more money.

In my situation, I bought 2 citizenships. I wanted one to carryover into a
world without Activeworlds giving me a citizen with the world. I don't need
3, but would live with the fact I have the 2 I bought. Get it now?


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Sep 4, 2001, 10:54pm

I did email, no response yet.

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Sep 5, 2001, 5:54pm

"when using your existing cit as the world cit, it would be renewed freely
whenever your world would be renewed!"

So, where is the world then? So far they have $40 of my money, and I have
no world.

"the cit wouldn't be counted in the price, you would've payed $10
every year, saving at least $10 bucks a year"

So if I bought a world, then I would I would have had 3 citizenships. I
only need 1, and I asked that they credit one of my existing citizenships.
Simple math, you only need one, so you use one of the 2 pre-existing
citizenships. I have already paid them $40 and I see no world.

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Sep 5, 2001, 5:58pm

"if you buy 4 cits, you get a world..."

Where does it say this?

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Sep 6, 2001, 4:26pm

That is what I was trying to do in January. It's now September 6, and one
person so far gets it.

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Aug 31, 2001, 12:04am

If they inform the tourist at the time they get a citizenship they could
save money in the long run by getting a world, then the costs wouldn't seem
like a lot. It would mean $20 less than the initial cost.

If activeworlds is too stingy to save just $20 for their users, what makes
you think they will lower the costs of worlds accross the board? They get
who they can get addicted and charge up the wazooo. Sorry, but I ain't
getting addicted on this. You guys can milk their pockets.

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Aug 31, 2001, 4:44am

Simple question, YES or NO:

When you registered for a citizenship and clicked the "Register Now!"
button, did it inform you that you could also buy a world which would incude
a citizenship?

All I want is a simple YES or NO, I don't need excuses or reasons why we
could have done other things. This is way they set it up, the programmers
made it so you would click a button to register if you were signed on as
tourist. Working with that method, did Active Worlds inform people when
registering about this fact regarding citizenships within a cost of a world?

If I had known I could have bought a world with citizenship, then I would
have bought that. Now my only choice is to buy a world which would come
with a citizenship I don't need.


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Aug 31, 2001, 3:35pm

NO NO, see http://members.aol.com/chessmusic/gcn/gcnmusic.htm (Best for
higher connections)
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Aug 31, 2001, 3:39pm

I am :-)

http://members.aol.com/chessmusic/gcn/gcnmusic.htm (Best for higher
connections)


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Aug 31, 2001, 11:51pm

So if you post a URL I can report you?
http://members.aol.com/chessmusic/gcn/gcnmusic.htm

If you want it, enjoy, if you don't DON'T CLICK


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Sep 2, 2001, 5:48am

umm, they have no say so. This newsgroup is controlled by AW not my isp.

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Sep 2, 2001, 10:31pm

I posted a link, and we are allowed to do that. That is pretty much the
point of the net to send links so we can share info. THEY EVEN MADE SEARCH
ENGINES WHICH WOULD MAKE THESE INSTANTLY. If there are to be punishments
given out for posting links then I want everyone tracked that emails me crap
that was not asked for or reasonably expected.

And finally, some people here object to posting pictures and HTML, they want
links instead. This isn't an argument for it but a defense that posting
links here to my knowledge is fine.

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Sep 3, 2001, 2:56pm

You call that spam? I see 3 posts for a url I made, that means 2 you can
argue spam. You can't really argue spam is just one url. Now let's see how
many urls you have down below. I see 11 links on this post of yours. Does
this mean you are 5 times as bad as me?

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Sep 3, 2001, 6:03pm

I was just pointing out that there are just as many, if not more (5 times
more) clickable links than what I had posted (regardless of the content
behind them or their function). Here I will make this on ZERO. Dear
mediaone, Marcus didn't put one single link in a NG post. He must be a bad
bad boy. LOL

Sep 4, 2001, 1:16am

"its the email urls the newsreader puts arent spam urls you put are"

And I even deleted all those I could and you still have a gripe with me.
Are you just here to attack me?

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