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Aug 7, 2003, 12:31pm

"bowen" <Bowen at andras.net> wrote in news:3f323aa4$2
at server1.Activeworlds.com:

[View Quote] according to strike rapier not, he says that the dictionary only says a
database is a collection of data. So a memorylist is also a database.... :)

Aug 7, 2003, 12:33pm

"jerme" <JerMe at nc.rr.com> wrote in
news:3f325c3c$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com:

> I don't think it's that simple. If it's a buffer overflow the whole
> world server process/thread *should* die completely. Buffer overflows
> are fatal errors, as far as I know.
>
> So, if this is a buffer overflow, why does the process not die and why
> does the server wait some (random) period of time before coming back
> online?
>
> -Jeremy
>

i am sure the designer of the wordlserver can answer you much better then i
can. However this is for sure the way i would handle a continuous
overflow.Stop listing for a while and wait for the storm to die down, try
again after a certain period to listen and if the coast is clear start
handling requests again.

Aug 8, 2003, 3:41am

"just in" <anon at no.spam..com> wrote in
news:3f3306fb at server1.Activeworlds.com:

> I agree with that procedure - shut down briefly if overloaded...
> but...
>
> Some hosted worlds do not have this problem occuring - it never
> happens on AW's servers and they are managing many worlds with huge
> traffick loads. (hmmm maybe it is even occuring on their servers?
> They do get WFS when in Alpha World, but it usually is a wait of 20
> secs or so - not 5 to 10 minutes).
>
> The problem seems like there still needs a solution, because a local
> server should be able to handle the traffick generated by a bot and
> reasonable number of users (assuming they are not running on old
> Commador 64s).
>
> Perhaps there is an overload switch somewhere but its set to an
> unreasonably low figure?
>
i tend to believe it is a combination of factors. So it will occur on any
where hosted server as long as your bot generates instructions faster
then the server can handle them. It also seems to depend on the time the
server needs to handle each instruction. Setting an attribute is light
load handling message trafic is heavy load I found that too fast
messaging is an effective way to bring down a server.

Aug 8, 2003, 1:43pm

"andras" <andras at andras.net> wrote in news:3f33bfdb$2
at server1.Activeworlds.com:

>
>

mmm, i had a bot which upon logging into the world send everyone a message
about the whereabouts of everyone else (don't ask) everytime it logged in
the server shut down

I was not building at all

Aug 8, 2003, 6:54pm

"jerme" <JerMe at nc.rr.com> wrote in
news:3f33f9f9$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com:

> connected. I had 80 users clicking and chatting like crazy for 36
> hours on a P2 300MHz with not a single hickup.
>
> That's odd. My server is a Dell PowerEdge PIII 800Mhz (running Red Hat
> Linux 7.2, what OS are you using?). So if that's the case then it
> should have plenty of processing power.
>
> The server is also co-located in a data center. It shares a 5Mb/s line
> with 3-5 other systems in the same rack. However, the Cisco switch
> there is carefully monitered. If anyone should be hogging the line
> (and thereby cutting off service to my server) the people in the
> control center will know about it right away. So, I doubt bandwidth is
> the problem here.
>
> simply building too fast.
>
> What bot do you use to do this? Approximitly how fast do you have to
> build? I'd like to be able to reproduce this with a linux test machine
> I have on my LAN.
>
>
> I whole-heartedly agree. The world server design should be moved to a
> multi-threaded model. If done properly, this would allow for much
> higher loads. (Though I realize the problems this raises). Each child
> process then could become a client to a full-blown RDBMS (like MySQL,
> for example).
>
> A database system like MySQL can handle an *insane* number of queries.
> It would also make administration much simpler. (i.e. issue SELECT,
> DELETE, INSERT statements directly to the database, rather than having
> to worry with the world server.)
>
> This would open up the doors to many neat web applications, with PHP,
> PERL and other programing languages that can interface with MySQL.
>
> -Jeremy
>
>

if memory serves me well at least the unverse servers can run on top of
MySQL, it seems logical worldservers do the same. But thats speculation i
have no knowledge of this.

And if the worlddatabase was the issue here, how come you can bring down
a world by merely sending a lot of messages? The citizens are kept in the
universe server, so the worldserver doesn't lookup any names in the
database.

Aug 8, 2003, 7:44pm

>
> That would be nice but the server uses C-Tree for database handling
> (and that reflects to Baron Sweetman's post too).
>

tnx Andras. Seems like a weird bunch of hardly connected programs though.
The uniserver runs on ini's or SQL, the world runs on Ctree, the SDK
queries both....Cant say this looks like a well planned enterprise :)

Still doesnt retract from my experience that sending a lot of messages
brings down the world, thereby showing that its not a database problem
but a buffer problem.

Aug 9, 2003, 11:16am

"kah" <kah at kahnews.cjb.net> wrote in
news:Xns93D28BBAD5F77kahatkahnewsdotcjbdo at 64.94.241.201:

> "baron sweetman" <petrossadeletethis at msn.com> wrote in
> news:Xns93D1F033B7649petrossa at 64.94.241.201:
>
>
> Actually, I believe the UniServer also operates from a "false" database
> system (probably Ctree as well).
>
> KAH
>
snippet from database.ini:

[misc]
;type=ini
type=mysql

[mysql]
host=SERVER
port=3306
userid=root
passwd=

Aug 11, 2003, 4:41am

"kah" <kah at kahnews.cjb.net> wrote in
news:Xns93D38DDBADDDCkahatkahnewsdotcjbdo at 64.94.241.201:

> "baron sweetman" <petrossadeletethis at msn.com> wrote in
> news:Xns93D29A1F1452Cpetrossa at 64.94.241.201:
>
LOL i was just making it up :) no it seems they do all in the ini's, was
just wishfull thinking on my side, sorry :(

But who knows it gives them inspiration ;)

Aug 10, 2003, 7:50pm

Finally Chazbot has reached enough maturity to be able to be called a
final release. Version 1.0 has a completely rewritten botmanagement,
whereby those in large, very populated worlds can decide to add as many
instances as their botlimit allows to spread the load amongst the other
instances by simply setting the maximum number of bots.
The bot calculates the event load on each instance and on that basis
swaps instances slower or faster to divide the incoming events over
them.On screen is shown what the current load per bot per timeunit is
with a minimum of 1 second. On that basis one can decide to add or take
away bots. All bots load under the same name making it seamless for the
visitor to talk with the bot whatever instance it is.

Also the main Chatwindow has been redesigned, making it more the
controlcenter of the bot, so only 1 window needs be open. The Chatwindow
now allows 2 way chatting in the same window which is now a full RTF
editor, so one gets WYSIWYG color/attributes setting for send chat.

Much more to read in the readme file.

Those who still have an install from more then 1 month ago do better to
reinstall a full installation.

Work in progress:
WorldMapper
Extending the point & click building
Terrain management

Aug 11, 2003, 3:56am

"xelag" <xelag at digitalspace.com> wrote in
news:i0pdjv8fsh1ma37ffe4qes2jcoadkmlchd at 4ax.com:

> Hi,
>
> Remember the golden rule: final is never final :)
>
> In my 3 to 4 years xelagoting my bot (hehe) I found out that soon
> enough. I hope and trust you will have a different attitude than AW's
> finals (at least, since Roland left). Final is the beginning :)
>
> Cheers and best of luck with your bot, the more good ones the merrier!
>
> Alex
>
> On 10 Aug 2003 17:50:27 -0400, "baron sweetman"
[View Quote] Lol, tnx Xelag. Lets hope i'll get to run the same distance as you :).
i meant final as in final for version 1.0 build 1. I already found some
bugs myself so the final release of version 1.0 build 2 will be arriving
soon :)

Aug 12, 2003, 4:01am

"strike rapier" <strike at Rapiercom.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
news:3f37e379 at server1.Activeworlds.com:

> Final is only the final... until you start work on service pack 1 the
> minute after...
>
> - Mark
>
[View Quote] just uploaded it :)

Aug 14, 2003, 5:55am

"baro" <baronjutter at shaw.ca> wrote in
news:3f3b36f3 at server1.Activeworlds.com:

> I was wondering if a very smart bot programmer not laid up by fluffy
> puff confections could program a bot that could not only do the hully
> gully, but do it on the panama canal. Is this even posible?
>
>
> What?
>
>
>

it easier then 'puffing' it up :) No need the be smart.

--
If polluting the Environment is against the law it follows that human
procreation should be outlawed

Aug 17, 2003, 2:16pm

Due to popular demand the texttospeech interface has been changed from
msagent to MS Speechapi. The installation contains Speechapi 4. Also has
a switch been added so only the chat containing your name will be spoken.

To even more popular demand the bot can now be configured to run on
different builds or versions of the SDK.

see www.petrossa.com/Chazbot for more details
--
If polluting the Environment is against the law it follows that human
procreation should be outlawed

Aug 25, 2003, 3:02pm

"alexthemartian" <alex at virtual-studios.net> wrote in
news:3f46d984 at server1.Activeworlds.com:

> how do i unistall chazbot?.. this is what readme said (latest version
> of chazbot): "To delete the bot from the registry, just run
> deletebot.exe, after that you can just delete the installation
> directory." deletebot.exe does not exist on my computer.. either it is
> missing (either from my computer or somehow not part of the
> installation of chazbot) or the readme needs to be changed.. now can
> someone tell me what i do to unistall it? do i just delete the
> directory?
>
[View Quote] please address all support questions to: petrossa at msn.com

--
If polluting the Environment is against the law it follows that human
procreation should be outlawed

Aug 29, 2003, 5:54am

Spurious (non existent) error codes generated by AW can result in total
bot failure.

Download the update from www.petrossa.com/Chazbot or choose Update News
from the Tools menu in Chazbot

--
If polluting the Environment is against the law it follows that human
procreation should be outlawed

Aug 30, 2003, 6:29am

"alexthemartian" <alex at virtual-studios.net> wrote in
news:3f4feb61 at server1.Activeworlds.com:

> plz not annother 10 meg bot.. but if it is 10 meg at least have all
> the features chazbot have.. which i think is too much to even have in
> one program. i think people should make these "mega" bots into 4 or 5
> seperate programs and people can download the one(s) they want, and
> also offer a package (for example: ms office or macromedia studio,
> etc.) that contain all the programs in one download.
>
[View Quote] Lol, Chazbot is 14 megs of which 75% is taken by third party dll's to
make up for the crappy mess MS has to offer in the way of API's.

And is aimed at world/universe owners who mostly have fast(er) links.
Downloading 14 mb in broadband takes a very short while. Then at $1 per
GB storage cost it costs about 1 dollarcent to store, which makes a bit
curious why the bot size should be an issue.

But as soon as someone wants to pay for me working my ass off to split
the bot in separate modules i'll be happy to comply ;)

In other words: don't look a gift horse in the mouth and blame MS for 75%
of the size.

--
If polluting the Environment is against the law it follows that human
procreation should be outlawed

Aug 30, 2003, 1:19pm

"strike rapier" <strike at Rapiercom.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in news:3f507ae5
$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com:

> 5MB's is rediculous.... Echelons only 4.5MB and Zeus is only 500kb and
> theyre more than paintball and chat could ever be...
why is that ridiculous? it's just another way of presenting a program,
question of taste and vision. If that's ridiculous, it's ridiculous to
build programs for a GUI using no or very few dialogs, having to twiddle
with ini settings.

It seems that a lot of people here suffer from a severe case of
Conservatism, where what was true a few years ago is an universal,
unshakeable truth.

Well my reality is that things change at a furious pace, what was true
yesterday can old hat today: storage space gets cheaper by the day,
broadband availability grows at a good speed (at least in Europe :)as
demonstrated by the huge price drops for bandwidth in the well covered
countries, what was 35 euro a month a year ago, now is half that.

But even in a third world country like the Czech Republic i can get
broadband in a remote village somewhere in the mountains. With a large
range of speed/price options.

For the life of me is don't understand this bickering for size, seems to
me like an inverted peeing contest.


--
If polluting the Environment is against the law it follows that human
procreation should be outlawed

Aug 30, 2003, 2:10pm

"strike rapier" <strike at Rapiercom.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
news:3f50caca at server1.Activeworlds.com:

> Yes... and now all things are more suited to CD distribution.. now
> even to DVD distribution..
>
> - Mark
>
[View Quote] thats an idea :) i should distribute the bot on a CD ;)

--
If polluting the Environment is against the law it follows that human
procreation should be outlawed

Aug 30, 2003, 3:00pm

"scuz" <scuz at awscape.com> wrote in
news:3f50d5a6$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com:

> heh. pay me enough to buy the cds and ill gladly send them to ya.
>
> -Scuz. Maker of the big bot that doesnt do much yet with 7 massive
> dlls in it >.<
>
tnx but i think i'll pass on that :)And let them bitch about size, we all
know size doesnt matter ;)

--
If polluting the Environment is against the law it follows that human
procreation should be outlawed

Aug 30, 2003, 3:43pm

"strike rapier" <strike at Rapiercom.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
news:3f50dc83 at server1.Activeworlds.com:

> Of course!
>
> Its how you use it that counts.. but at 5mb you must be using the code
> in em pretty shitely.
>
> - Mark
>

i dont know, i just know that to use 1 function from my third party libs
i need to ship the whole lib.

Chazbot contains about 6 mb of libs/dll's, and the main program has about
5 mb statically linked in. i am sure i dont use all of it :) but have
very little choice in the matter, except to use crappy MS stuff which is
not really much of an option
--
If polluting the Environment is against the law it follows that human
procreation should be outlawed

Aug 30, 2003, 4:58pm

"strike rapier" <strike at Rapiercom.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
news:3f50ec57$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com:

> Course... until you have seen the actual source code for the MS stuff
> you can't say if its crap or not :)
>
> - Mark
>

i can just judge the book by its cover, the API's are counterintuitive,
bugridden (what MS stuff isnt) and have an extremely steep learning
curve.
In other words, crap.

--
If polluting the Environment is against the law it follows that human
procreation should be outlawed

Aug 30, 2003, 5:10pm

"strike rapier" <strike at Rapiercom.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in
news:3f50f580$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com:

> An extremely steep learning curve eh.. well.. if you can't stand the
> heat...
you skip crappy MS and buy something with a gentle curve so you dont
waste your time proving how smart you are ;)

--
If polluting the Environment is against the law it follows that human
procreation should be outlawed

Aug 31, 2003, 4:24am

"alexthemartian" <alex at virtual-studios.net> wrote in
news:3f515af6$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com:

> btw.. im kidding
>

Lol, noone in AW wants to pay for any bot. They'll pay $30 for a model
that took a week to build but will not even pay $1 for a bot that took 6
months to build. Weird isn't it?
--
If polluting the Environment is against the law it follows that human
procreation should be outlawed

Aug 31, 2003, 4:27am

"baron sweetman" <petrossadeletethis at msn.com> wrote in
news:Xns93E85409C6F66petrossa at 64.94.241.201:

> "alexthemartian" <alex at virtual-studios.net> wrote in
> news:3f515af6$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com:
>
>
> Lol, noone in AW wants to pay for any bot. They'll pay $30 for a model
> that took a week to build but will not even pay $1 for a bot that took
6
> months to build. Weird isn't it?

which is strange mostly because people from other Universa gladly pay for
it. Chazbot got 115 euro from outside of AW donations.

--
If polluting the Environment is against the law it follows that human
procreation should be outlawed

Aug 31, 2003, 1:56pm

"bowen" <Bowen at andras.net> wrote in
news:3f519746$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com:
> I only have 3 bots to use. I, however, can place as many objects as I
> want.
>

i fail to see the relevance

--
If polluting the Environment is against the law it follows that human
procreation should be outlawed

Aug 31, 2003, 4:50pm

"bowen" <Bowen at andras.net> wrote in news:3f523f57$2
at server1.Activeworlds.com:

[View Quote] i wasn't asking for anything, people can make donations

--
If polluting the Environment is against the law it follows that human
procreation should be outlawed

Aug 31, 2003, 4:55pm

"bowen" <Bowen at andras.net> wrote in news:3f523f57$2
at server1.Activeworlds.com:

[View Quote] IMHO you can use any bot over and over, it's not limited to 1 single
usage. Or do you mean to say that there is a big diff between for example
a wordprocessor and a bot in usage terms?

Both can used as many times as you want, but you'd pay for a wp but not
for a bot? I am very confused now, or maybe you are ? ;)

--
If polluting the Environment is against the law it follows that human
procreation should be outlawed

Feb 1, 2003, 7:24pm

is implented already for half a year in Chazbot,
www.petrossa.com/Chazbot


"technozeus" <TechnoZeus at usa.net> wrote in
news:3e3c15a2$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com:

> Sounds like a challange for someone looking for a bot idea. :) They
> could make it so that you could choose which avatar to teleport, and
> then click on the object you would like them teleported to... not sure
> how it would make sure they don't end up stuck in the object, but as I
> said... sounds like a challange for someone. :)
>
> TechnoZeus
>
[View Quote]

Feb 1, 2003, 7:34pm

was not much of a challenge anyway :) you just put the av high up above the
centre of object and it will slowly sink down :)

"technozeus" <TechnoZeus at usa.net> wrote in
news:3e3c3b3a$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com:

> Well.. I didn't say necessarily a "new" challange. :)
>
> Thanks for the info.
>
> TZ
>
[View Quote]

Feb 2, 2003, 7:13am

the ostrich algorythm works in 90% of the case ;)


"technozeus" <TechnoZeus at usa.net> wrote in
news:3e3c6352$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com:

> if gravity is turned on... and if it's not a "very tall" object. :)
>
> TZ

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