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May 31, 2002, 12:46am

Well, although I've said my good-byes here, I have 20 something days
left and I couldn't help but second your remarks. Roland may well have
contributed more to the AW technology that anyone else in its short
history. As is all too often the case such people sneak out with
hardly a good-bye from all those they have benefited.

Let's all wish him a bright and prosperous future that he deserves.

[View Quote]

May 31, 2002, 12:46am

Well, although I've said my good-byes here, I have 20 something days
left and I couldn't help but second your remarks. Roland may well have
contributed more to the AW technology that anyone else in its short
history. As is all too often the case such people sneak out with
hardly a good-bye from all those they have benefited.

Let's all wish him a bright and prosperous future that he deserves.

[View Quote]

Jan 30, 2002, 2:21am

I'll just comment on this one because it's the one I think people
understand the least. And perhaps the explanation is not intuitive to
some (Certainly not to AW management).


Some examples:

When I leave my electrical devices turned on all day an night whether I
am using them or not my electricity bill goes up. Because I consumed
more electricity.

When I buy a big luxury car instead of a small economy car, I burn more
gas, so I pay more to drive it.

When I decide to become an Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer and buy
$600 worth of study materials, the bookstore, or Microsoft is happy to
take my money.

These all make sense right? Things of value generally cost money to
produce. And those costs get passed on to consumers, with mark-up of course.

I take the test and get the MCSE, Microsoft sends me free copies of all
their software, and many other services at a discount.

What gives here? Why is MS suddenly so generous?

One more (fictitious) Example: Acme computer company prides itself in
making the best computer in the world. They are so sure its the best
that they only make one model, and sell it for $2000. Market research
tells them that some people would prefer the computer to be blue, rather
than the old standard off-white. So they come out with a second model
in blue, which costs them $5 more in manufacturing cost. They put it on
the market for $2500, because people who really want a blue computer
will be willing to pay that much.

Pretty good deal for Acme, until customers find out the manufacturing
cost is only $5.

Some of AW's pricing makes sense, some of it makes not so much sense,
some of it is downright stupid.

Unless someone can enlighten me, pricing for land size in AW is in the
stupid category for the most part. Reasons:

There is NO shortage of land in AW. I can build 'till the cows come
home in AW at no additional cost. AW, has to pay for that big database
where all my objects are being stored. If I use a bot to hog as much
land as I can in AW...no cost to me. Added cost to AW. Inconvenience
to other users who have to build around me.

If I decide to buy a world *within the AW Universe*, and host it on my
PC at home where I have as much disk space as AWLD... No additional
cost to AWLD. Its JUST a parameter in the authorization process for the
world. Anyone wanting to use it would still have to buy and AW
citizenship (now especially). People who built there would be eating up
MY disk space bandwidth and CPU resources not AWLD's. I would have an
incentive to convince people to use AW, and might decide to charge them
separately for space in my world etc. I would in effect become a sales
rep for AW citizenships. (Oh, that's why Microsoft gives so many
goodies to people who get MCSE's by the way, they become preachers to do
things the Microsoft way wherever they work.).

Why not buy a Universe? Well, they are prohibitively expensive for one
thing. Plus you have all of the aformentioned servers expenses. And
there is (to my knowledge) no guarantee that once you get a few thousand
users the license fee won't suddenly skyrocket making it AWLD's profit
rather than yours. In addition, every user you get is a user that AWLD
loses (or fails to get). I can't buy Coke from the Coca Cola company
and put my name on the label and resell it hoping to compete with the
Coca Cola company can I? That's exactly the position the Universe
owners have put themselves in unless they have a significant other
reason to do so (European users for Example/Network delay).

AWLD has unnecessarily divided the community in multiple ways, without
as far as I can tell, significantly improving market penetration of
their technology.

To sum up: When a company has to charge a lot for a part of their
product that costs them little, or nothing, (or a negative amount!) in
order to go from being not-profitable to be profitable... Think now...

It means that something else in their product line is being given away,
or is being sold at too low a cost. Or it may mean that their cost
structure is just out of line with reality.

In the long run, better to fix cost/revenue inequities in your business
model than to gouge one customer to make up for giving something away to
another. Customers don't like it, investors don't like it. You often
have to make sudden desperation price changes to cope with changes in
customer needs and your own cost of production. Bad pricing strategy to
start with can turn suddenly unsustainable as you price yourself out of
the market in one area, having lost track of what you are giving away
somewhere else.

Maybe that's what we are witnessing now.

*Zips up asbestos suit*

[View Quote] > not being hosted on AWC servers... all worlds should be the size of
> AlphaWorld and there should only be one world price, preferably a low price.
>
> It'd be nice but many people dont have the boxes or the bandwidth for worlds
> that large, and as stated by cozmo good $$$ source.
>

Jan 4, 2002, 2:30am

Well I think people are just very frustrated. And as we all know, no
AW people read the newsgroups (and they are proud of that fact!).

[View Quote] > That's real 'productive'.....
> Casay
[View Quote]

Feb 5, 2002, 1:53am

[View Quote] > I know this is a little late.. but...
>
>
>
> *hacks away at his linux machine*
>
> Ahh, there.. no more Red Hat.. Sorry, can't use that anymore.
>
> Why doesn't AOL just grab the source and make their own version? All they'd
> have to do is change the Red Hat logos and recompile.
>

At the moment both sides are denying that there is a buy-out in
progress, and maybe there isn't.

The reason why AOL might want to buy Red Hat is that Red Hat is actually
a profit making company, which, for those of you who have never heard of
such a thing, means that they ACTUALLY make more money than they spend.

They have existing deals with IBM and a few other big companies to
support specialized version of Linux. I read today where Linux is now
at 4.5 million lines of code. I suspect that the number of people who
are even generally familiar with how that code operates is fairly small.

So, buying Red Hat would give them an instant development team. (With
the exception of a couple who have said they would quit if such a deal
took place).

I think my point is still valid though... since the breakdown in
negotiations with Microsoft last year AOL has done a number of things to
prepare for head to head combat with Microsoft if necessary.

I'm no big hater of Microsoft (I just don't like their attitude), and
I'm no big fan of AOL, but anything that keeps Microsoft from exploiting
their monopoly position at this point is good for technology, and good
for end users.

Mar 13, 2002, 2:57am

Using Outlook Express I think you can also use the RESET function under

"Tools/Options/Maintenence/Clean up now"

(someone obviously didn't spend too much time designing the menu on
Outlook Express did they?)

If you then go out of OE and back again the old messages will be
downloaded again.

[View Quote] > Remove your "account" that's stored in the newsreader then redownload..
> That's the only way I know how to do it with outlook (if you're using that).
> :)
>
> -Silenced
>
[View Quote]

Apr 11, 2002, 3:03am

Which is why I no longer watch TV.

I suppose you can forgive a screen writer for being ignorant about IP
addresses.

What's REALLY sad is that when they do drama programs on non-technical
things, like the Supreme Court, or the White House (the workings of
which are SUPPOSED to be taught in high school for heavens sake) they
make even more obvious factual errors.

Way too many people in the US these days think that these programs are
DOCUMENTARIES! Leave it to Hollywood to fill the void left by our
educational systems with.... more void.

Nothing they do surprises me any more.

[View Quote] > Hi, I was watching TV and the BBC had a drama series thing about an Inet
> company running a site... story of the episode was that they got
> domain-"squatters" (someone that registers domainnames that look like
> another, to catch people typing the wrong URL). They went on to do a WHOIS
> query, and this is the beginning of the funny part: they pointed at an IP
> and said it was a contact number! later, to try and trace the owners they
> did a port-scan on the nameserver... they thought it was illegal, and by
> only using a portscan they found the OWNER's street address... so, my point
> is why do these people write a bunch of stupid crap about things they know
> nothing about, and why do bigtime institutions like the BBC let them do it??
> lol
>
> KAH
>
>
>

Jan 3, 2002, 2:45am

I read the latest SEC (a dirtier word than damn around here) report for
AW a few months ago. I don't think anybody bothered to post the link in
any of the counter cultural hangouts (which is an interesting change
from the past).

What it said was (and I'm a little vague on the details) that at the
rate they are losing money, AW has about a year worth of reserves left
(that was then, less than a years worth by now).

I shared with a few friends the prediction that this would be the final
end for the VR we love and hate. Just from doing the math, I predicted a
year or less.

Another stock issue is out of the question. No more Juno type deals to
be found I am sure. Sales to big companies for 3D training, virtual
malls and the like become harder and harder when there isn't even one
success story to point to.

They want to increase the prices by a factor of 6 or so. I'm sure they
have calculated this amount assuming a significant loss of users.
They'll probably want to raise world prices too.

Some of us have the means, and will be willing to pay the new rates,
whatever they are. But we will be doing it so that we can share our
worlds, our "works of art" with an ever dwindling audience. What will be
the point, other than determining the point of no return?

Frankly, I think we have reached that point already. What WAS needed,
because its really too late now, was a spark of creativity at the head
office.

Chasing all the creative people off was probably not such a good idea.
Those who wanted to have it all for themselves, will ultimately end up
with nothing. Just like in Snowcrash. How fitting. How sad, for those
who really cared.

Yeah, I'll go sign the petition. But it won't matter. Really.

Jan 12, 2002, 6:23pm

Well Moria, your posts are USUALLY sensible.....

What other products that you have used have had a 600% price increase?
Public statements by JP less than a year ago said we have plenty of cash
on hand for operations in the foreseeable future.

Some of us are concerned not just about the increased price we will have
to pay, but also on the total cashflow that this will produce further
out. Without a significant change in the number of new users coming on
board, that total cashflow is likely to be less. What will bring new
users in now that the casual tourist is a thing of the past?
Netbroadcaster.com maybe?

Facts? Go to netbroadcater.com and read their own web page...then read
the press accounts (that they had to copy to their own site because they
were too old to still exist on the original sources). 10 employees...
may be giving up their office space soon... 7th fastest of the NEW
entertainment portals TWO YEARS AGO... No original content other than
one short film they made... lots of hits but average stickiness 1.5
minutes per user. Their domain name expires next month.

Facts are good. Let's have more. As a former insider maybe you can
fill us in. Absent any facts but what I can find on the net I'll draw
my own (pretty dang historically correct) conclusions.

"is it any surprise that AWcom posts little in this
newsgroup?"

Yes it is. They OWN this newsgroup and this is one of the best places
to communicate with CORE users... people who know how to use the
internet, are likely to have been around a while and are likely to stay
a while. If there is a more representative collection of AW users let
us know where they congregate.

The people who offended AWcom originally and were supposedly responsible
for AWcom's lack of participation have been BANNED!!!

I'm tired of hearing that because someone got their feelings hurt over
something three years ago AWcom will not communicate with its users.
That attitude is not only pathetic, its also pathological.

AWCom has to grow up sometime... The sooner the better.

If AWcom would post more to this group I would post less. That would be
fine by me, and I suspect would be fine by them too.

Make my day !



[View Quote] > Hiya SW.
>
> Sounds just like AW to me :)
>
> Screaming over a price rise, screaming over replaced textures,
> screaming over what aw are doing to other universes, screaming that
> new objects just might possibly not be for free elsewhere, and
> screaming that all of their negativity is not listened to.
>
> Staging protests and signing petitions and trying to raise the masses
> with incomplete or incorrect facts.
>
> Even the new objects were roundly condemned, and then people wonder
> why they arent listened to :)
>
> Forgetting to find out all the facts before screaming.
>
> Forgetting the golden rule that every person has one mouth and two
> ears and they should use them in that proportion:)
>
> Forgetting the second rule that to assume makes an ass out of u and
> me.
>
> Has there been one topic raised that thanked AW for restoring the
> textures removed by accident.
>
> Has there been one post explaining whats happening in the other
> universe and how it WASNT aw coms fault that there were problems?
>
> Has there been one post explaining why some worlds went down in the
> other universe and whos fault it was as opposed to assuming it was
> AW's fault?
>
> I guess now we'll have 100 threads from wanna be marketeers explaining
> how AW are using their new subscriptions to buy a new company without
> realising there are many ways to acquire a company without using
> cash:)
>
> never mind, one day they will be running companies too (maybe) and
> can implement their own ideas and strategies.
>
> Till then, is it any surprise that AWcom posts little in this
> newsgroup. Perhaps the real voice of the majority is not contained
> here?
>
> Moria
>
>
>
>
> On 12 Jan 2002 03:26:28 -0500, "sw chris" <chris at skywalkeronline.net>
[View Quote]

Jan 12, 2002, 11:54pm

[View Quote] > Hiya macb:)
>
[View Quote] Well it wasn't intentional. A healthy use of newsgroups is to sort
things like this out. I've never been to a web page yet where a company
reports negative things about itself. This may be the kick in the
pants that AW needs, but my impression was otherwise.

>
>
>
> Have you tried talking to people that know rather than relying on
> urban ledgends on the net?
>


There ARE nothing but urban legends regarding AWCom. I monitor 4
newsgroups, a few web based zines, tech-talk, and frequently talk to
people in-world. Pretty rare to find anyone (including employees) who
claim to actually know anything about the company's plans.

It is the company's prerogative to be secretive, I just don't happen to
think that it is good for them in the long run.

>
>
> I disagree, the only thing this newsgroup has displayed in recent
> memory is total negitivity towards AWCOM. Its a place for people to
> vent. Presence or lack of it hasnt changed that in the 5 years its
> been running, and it wouldnt change now:)
>
>
>
> I'm not talking three years ago, I'm talking today, look at the lists
> of posts from the few that have made them and determine yourself if
> the 20 or so that post here regularly are core supporters, or whether
> anything AW would do is a crime:)
>


Well, maybe they should shut the newsgroups down again then. I was
very much in favor of them being brought back, but my assumption (there
is that word again) was that AWCom would participate in them. If their
attitude matches yours (and it appears to) then the best thing from the
companies point of view is for all public opinion to be suppressed.


>
>
> Perhaps they have, and maybe just maybe some of the users dont like
> the adult AWCom, so they wont see it.
>
>
>
> You'd hate that:)
>
>
> Moria
>
>

Don't confuse my lack of optimism for lack of HOPE. I wouldn't still
be here if I didn't have HOPE that things might eventually change. I
in fact spend an ever increasing amount of money to support that hope.

I'm always on the lookout for evidence that it is not money down the drain.

ACTIVEWORLDS IS THE BEST IMMERSIVE 3D PROGRAM IN THE WORLD RIGHT NOW FOR
ANY PRICE.

If we all put that line at the top of all our posts you think Rick and
JP would get their butts back in here?

Well... their lead is narrowing. There really are some interesting
things on the horizon. I would like to see AW positioned to fend off
some competition. I think there is room under the tent for "yes-men"
as well as people who gripe a bit. I'm afraid I'll always be the
latter. But I still consider myself a supporter, and I think most of
the people who post here are too.


So many have given up.

I won't post on this topic again... take the last word if you want
Moria. I hope when the company makes its further announcements next
month that they have truly weighed public opinion on all of this. The
petitions, boycotts, world owner meetings may seem silly to the owners
of AW, but there is a resentment in them that is both broad and deep.
AWCom needs to deal with that. It's not a lost cause unless they treat
it as such.

Feb 7, 2002, 2:52am

[View Quote]
> Anyway ... all I can say is "Fair enough!" ... No doubt plenty of people
> will have a lot of issues with it still, I think it goes to show that AW
> aren't the selfish, singleminded, evil ogres that so many people have
> insisted on implying over the last few weeks.
>
> Wonder what people are gonna say though ...




Well I think you or someone else suggested that all of us who complained
owe AWLD an apology or something.

Don't hold your breath.

This is the first time that I have known the company to bow to public
pressure AT ALL. I congratulate them on that.

If nobody had complained we would still be looking at a 600% increase
and probably doubled world prices. So I am not about to apologize for
complaining.

I have nothing against the owners of AWLD being selfish. If there are
selfish AND smart... there will be a LOT of new AW users this time next
year. I want the "Web in 3D"... which means half of America will know
about and use AW... if there's no chance of that happening then I am
prepared to wash my hands of it.

I personally don't see how the price increases are going to make lots of
new users. Maybe there is a phase II of this plan that will make it
all clear to me.

But on that... I won't hold my breath either.

Feb 10, 2002, 5:19am

[View Quote] > Unfortunately, even advertising won't work as well as it could at attracting
> new people to AW all the time some of those that are already citizens are
> bitching about the AW pricing policy and slagging off the company in totally
> unrelated public forums!
>
> That's just plain dumb!
>
> Grims
>

As one of the slaggers... I do a good bit of it in non-AW public forums.

I'll try not to make this so much a slag as a short history lesson.
I'll look up "slag" later... I'm inferring its meaning from the context
of your post.

It used to be that such stuff (slag) was deleted here, and I never cared
for playing footsie with the censors. Sometimes I just can't let it go
though when the posts here have no bearing on reality.

There is advertising, and then there is EFFECTIVE advertising. People
who make their living in the advertising business are supposed to be
able to tell the difference.

I first heard of AW from an article in Computerworld... I forget the
year, but my user number is under 2000. There was practically nothing
at GZ when I first visited it. I would guess that there were only a few
hundred, maybe not that many, people in the (real) world who were using it.

The next year or so was the best time in AW, because it was obvious that
the user base was growing! We felt that we were on the ground floor of
something REALLY important. I couldn't get enough of it... learning to
build, working with others doing the same, devoting my personal home
page to AW, telling all my friends about it. I even became a GK for a
while. The politics of that turned my stomach though.

As far as I could tell, there was nothing (other than server imitations)
that was keeping AW from becoming the most popular thing on the
internet. I didn't see the Web as disappearing or anything, but it
seemed perfectly reasonable to me that at some point everyone would at
least know that they could "browse" content in AW more effectively than
with a 2D interface. I don't think I was the only one thinking along
those lines either. Of course this assumed a steady improvement to both
the browser and the server end of things. But there were several smart
people at the company and I KNOW they had good ideas along those lines.

Then things changed. I'll be politically correct here and not say what
I think caused them to change. And then there was a series of .. lets
call them obsessions in AW:

Community Obsession: There had to be lots of community groups. With
someone APPOINTED to lead each group. There had to be control of what
was said in AW, and then at the Gate and there had to be groups of
people invented to exercise that control. (GKs originally had no eject
authority, and some of us really didn't think it was necessary). I
don't think the true AW community ever recovered from this. There are
people to this day who think they are quite special because AW has put
their name on a wall somewhere. In some cases in closed worlds. One
has to laugh. The community obsession destroyed the community,

Server Obsession: Clearly one server could not handle the whole
internet. If there were going to be 10 million users the load would
have to be spread somehow. I think there were several solutions to this
floating around, but the one that predominated was the one involving (in
theory) the most income to AWLD. I think that was short sighted. I
think that the user base started to erode rather than grow at that
point, but that's just a gut feel... the numbers are closely held. I
know that there are no other universes with substantial user
populations. If there were one, I would have moved long ago. The
server obsession destroyed the user base that was the need for servers
in the first place.

Bot Obsession: I think a lot of technical time was wasted with the
concept that all of AW's shortcomings could be solved with bots. There
are certainly some useful bots out there, but during this period of time
the user interface hardly improved at all, and simple improvements to
the scripting language for objects were deemed unnecessary because a bot
could do it. Why put the animation for a flying bird on the object
when you can have a bot doing it (other than ease of use, efficiency,
bandwidth, server load, hehe). I think a lot of users stopped being
interested in building, which seemed to be something only a C programmer
could do effectively and entered some strange vegetative state after
playing 2D board games in AW for too long. I'd rather have seen them
in AWSchool. The Bot Obsession has given people something to do other
than create, and hence eliminated the original use for bots.

Mall Obsession: Nine Million man hours of AWLD time must have gone into
convincing people that they should be shopping in AW. Only problem is,
there were no shops convinced of this. And really... without a LOT more
users than AW ever had, who could blame them? It's a great concept...
just the time hadn't come for it to be practical. And now it probably
never will. The Mall obsession proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that
pleasing its USERS, and not some big merchandiser was the key to AW's
future. It also demonstrated how ineffective AW was for some things.
At least given the current technology.

Stock Obsession: When AW went public I think everyone had high hopes
that so much money would be raised that there would be no limit to what
could be done. But as far as I can tell, nothing really changed as a
result of the stock offering. It could be that AWLD was really close
to being out of money and the stock offering kept it going longer. Does
anybody know for sure (who can speak)? It's not a good time to be
depending on the stock market to run your business, unless of course
your business is doing pretty well on its own. I think I contradicted
myself in there somewhere. The Stock Obsession raised money, and made
AW more dependent on continuing to raise money... lots of it, to survive.

The current Obsession? I guess its survival. No more tech-talks.
No more Q&A with ENZO. I've only seen JP speak publicly once in AW.
Until the next Edgar report we really won't know what's going on I guess.

Plain dumb? People complaining isn't dumb. What's dumb is ignoring
complaints of your user base. What's dumb is fragmenting your user
base into little cliques based more on who you know than what you know.
What's dumb is bragging about how you don't read tgrams, newsgroups,
and various other forms of input from users. What's dumb is following
business plans long after they have proven themselves not to work.
What's dumb is doing anything to reduce your users base when what you
need most is MORE users. There were once enough resources to try lots
of experiments, I know even people within AWLD were frustrated that
their ideas didn't get much of a hearing. Now, their resources are
depleted I would guess. There are no options any more. Nothing we can
say or do will change it now.

How can something like AW have come to the point where it's survival is
in question? I think the users deserve an answer to that. AWLD hired
staff to build the new AWGate. I just read this the other day. I was
shocked! They were PROUD of it. I can remember a time when AW users
would have done just as good a job for free, just because they loved AW.
Now we all have to pay.

That's just plain dumb!!

Feb 8, 2002, 5:00am

As I recall, the company promised to delete non-citizen properties WAY
back when the original $20 user fee was developed. Many of us were
disappointed that they never followed through on that. The beginning of
much skepticism about such promises. Much of that really old NAC stuff
is pure junk. People experimenting, learning to build...failing, and
then getting bored with it and leaving.

We suspect that the REAL reason that stuff was never deleted is that
doing so would have given a more accurate feel for how many ACTIVE users
there really were.

As far as HOW they would do the delete....using a bot would be moronic.
The position and orientation of every object in AW is in a single
multi-gig database. In SQL the command would go something like "Delete
from Proptab where citname='nac'" . I'm sure B-treive (sp?) has
something similar that would allow for global cleanups such as that, and
the process would probably run in minutes (the case for deletes on most
database systems).

I think it would be kinda neat to see the area around AWGZ looking like
it had been nuked. Land hogs would fill it up in a day or two I am
sure. I wonder in the end if the results would look better or worse?
Hard to say.

I really doubt that people who left AW more than a year ago care what
happens to their old property. As for people who have temporarily
stopped using AW for whatever reason, they could have a "holding" period
for such objects....as much as a year maybe.

I know that in my original neighborhood of AW (way out in the boondocks)
deleting the old NAC stuff (and even some of the ridiculous AWHS
preservations) would sure make the place look a lot nicer. AWLD has my
permission to delete my stuff the day after my Cit expires. I've given
up on the idea of having a virtual burial place in AW. Will probably do
my tombstone in VRML instead.

As for your source of information... I'm sure the PKs get all sorts of
inside info. But the top folks at AWLD are ultra secretive about some
things... that's what makes them so cool after all. I don't think any
of us are smart enough to figure out where they go from here. Well,
except in general north, south, east, west terms anyway.

Fun to speculate though.

[View Quote] > I brought this up because a PK told me that in a PK meeting J.P was there and
> told the group that this will happen. Now who can say you know. but 1 week
> ago another PK told me aboout the new $6.95 plan befor it happend, she said it
> was from secret meeting. then it happens. It could very well be true and
> happen right behing our backs. Please consider this issue. From that one
> correct fact I got from a PK I can hold the 2nd one with high regards.
> Anyways. Lets keep clear minds andbe open for anything and look out for
> posibility that NAC and expired cit stuff could be vaporized!! :) Duskbat
>
[View Quote]

Feb 10, 2002, 9:06pm

Yep, I thought that was interesting too.

Also it looks like AskEarth is becoming a real product rather than just
a demo.

[View Quote] > "gavroche" <gav at vrg8.com> skrev i meddelandet
> news:3c66ac2d$1 at server1.Activeworlds.com...
>
>
> With ads from AskEarth. Isn't that Danny and Ron?
>
>
>
>
>

Feb 10, 2002, 9:58pm

Well I don't have a horse in this race. But I know that AW has in the
past rewarded people sort of as a pay-off for not doing bad things, once
they had demonstrated that they COULD do bad things. There is some of
that in the origins of the PK's in fact.

White Hat hacking is a valuable thing as long as the person responsible
doesn't decide to change hats somewhere along the line.

There are some well known hackers that constantly break Microsoft
security. The responsible ones give MS a few weeks to produce a patch
before announcing the flaw to the world.

Others can't resist doing it the other way around though... making sure
that they get credit for the hack. It's an ego thing.

If AW simply charged for the browser...and then charged for upgrades,
then charged for the server, and corresponding upgrades, and then let
people have all the users and land that their servers could support...
then there would be very little reason to hack anything. There would
also be a lot more users in my opinion. It's not a model that AWLD has
ever shown any interest in. Adobe has.

AW is such a tempting hack target I suspect because it attempts to exert
control over things (User ID, user limits, land limits) that don't
really have any (real) cost associated with them.

Just curious: Can you be sure that someone didn't hack into your server
and steal a copy of the hacked server? Stranger things have happened.

Also, that part about you hosting a cracked server for someone else, and
therefore not being responsible for it. You lost me there somewhere.
I'm sure your intentions were honorable though. Right?

One of the first macro viruses for MS Office was for "educational
purposes". It still got out and caused some damage.

There have been some bots out there that sent passwords back to the
mother ship too. The average user has no way of knowing this. When
discovered the author can always claim it was left over from the
debugging stage.

The term hacker was originally applied to people who created things...
for people to actually use. Now that the term is more often applied to
people who try to break things, regardless of their motives, its a shame
that the creative people have to share the epithet.

I don't know any of the people who are battling it out with each other
here. Quite an interesting conversation though. Keep it up.


[View Quote] > To chickengurl, Derek Rayburn, and everyone,
>
> I will say this one last time.
>
> No cracked, hacked, mutilated, bloated, Trojan filled, cloned or otherwise
> universe server, ever left my systems or servers to a 3rd party. (Which
> means *ANYONE*)
>
> ALL of my servers have an Authenticode in an extended 4 bytes of the EXE
> files. Example: 7F 7F 00 01 etc. followed by the creation date and hashed
> and keyed file CRC .
>
> You are correct, "X Worlds" was hosted by one of my servers in the past.
> Even though it was hosted by me, I was not the owner and accepted no
> responsibility for it.
>
> Maybe you should look at other sources for these "hacked" universe servers.
> A good deal of names come up, including yours, because if I remember
> correctly and records will show this, you were also in possession and
> running a cracked universe server.
>
> Like I said before, email Roland regarding my activities. Not that he would
> want to respond to you anyway, you email address is a clear sign of your
> immaturity.
>
> Maybe one day, someone will get their facts right about me and my
> activities. And like I have said before, how come I still have access to
> the AW universe server, and also have the following citizenships if I really
> was the evil hacker and anarchist people make me out to be?
>
> AWST 03, AWST 04, AWST 05, AWST 06, AWST 07, AWST 08, AWST 09, AWST 10, AWST
> 11, AWST 12, AWST 13, AWST, Gavroche, SP1D3R XOR, AWST, Gavroche, ... L u k
> e ...
>
> Maybe you should be the one who stays out of trouble instead of being in
> cohorts with the likes of Radon and Xero who have clearly caused the
> community damage.
>
> Oh, and this is for anyone who wants clear facts....
>
> YES, I have got an unmodified original copy of the Active Worlds Universe
> Servers. Versions: 2.1, 2.2, 3.0, 3.1, 3.2 alpha, 3.2 beta.
> YES, I have successfully "hacked" these universe servers to allowed them to
> run illegally.
> YES, I have on more than one occasion ran these "hacked" universe servers
> for educational, non profit use with a limit of 5 users and 2 worlds.
> YES, I have successfully written a clone of a 3.1 universe server from
> scratch that is 100% compatible with the Active Worlds protocol and
> encryption systems.
> YES, I have on more than one occasion ran the 3.1 cloned universe server.
> Once such instance was the VRGate universe, which I volunteered to close
> down and ban public access to.
> NO, I have NEVER released a "hacked" universe server or a "cloned" universe
> server to the public or any other party. Including my closest friends.
> YES, AWST have been using the information gained by these hacks to help
> AWCorp crack down and cure security bugs in the Active Worlds Software. One
> such example is the impersonation hack which luckily I have not seen in the
> public, but could have easily erased every world in active worlds.
> YES, Active Worlds Corporation asked me to close down my cloned universe
> servers from public access to prevent legal action.
>
> Anything else you want to know?
>
> One last thing, I challenge you to find a site that I have created that
> allows people to download any hack that I have created or any invitation to
> enter one of my universe servers.
>
> Good Day,
>
> Luke Twydell.
>
[View Quote]

Feb 12, 2002, 4:57am

[View Quote] > Hi everyone:
>
[View Quote]

**** stuff deleted******


>
>
> 1). !Friends isn't a private world and 2). The private world owners on the
> Yahoo list were a LYNCH MOB compared to you guys. At least you guys had the
> prescence of mind to be civil about your disagreement. :-) I have since
> left the aforementioned Yahoo! Group (may they boast their Cys while the
> rest of us do something CONSTRUCTIVE to save AW! Can you believe they were
> planning a large protest on AWGate???? While the idea was a good one, I
> thought AlphaWorld would make a better choice. Naturally, as with all my
> other ideas I brought up on there, they shot it full of holes and cast me
> off as being "clueless").

***** stuff deleted ******

!Friends *IS* a private world. Owned by Steller.

You shouldn't take criticisms thrown out in newsgroups too personally.
It's well known that people say things to other people in such forums
that they would never have the nerve (or ill manners) to say in person.
I include myself in that (even though I try to do better).

Sorry I haven't been following your idea, or the protest ideas too
closely. I think when people feel strongly about something they should
express themselves in whatever way is available to them.

I'm not sure what "constructive" things can be done to save AW. I think
there is a shortage of money because the money has been spent poorly. I
could be "constructive" and send them a donation of $1000, but it would
still get spent poorly. My reason for being against the price increase
is not that I don't have the money to pay, its because I think the money
that is flowing in already is not being used wisely. I also think the
new pricing will drastically cut the size of the users base. That to
me is intolerable. I don't know anyway to protest that constructively.
I've posted my views here, as have others. At least new users don't
read this stuff, and potential users can't. So only "hard-core" AW
users and management (if they choose) will see my "protests". That's
about as constructive as I can be.

If AW management hasn't come to their senses by the time my ID is up for
renewal, I will let it expire. I know many other people that are
planning to do the same thing. My "protest" in this case is to announce
that here, in advance. Once I am gone, I will be gone for good though,
as I think most people will be. There are other programs that are
coming along, and with more users to support them will come along
faster. Once I have committed to one of those programs (probably
Atmosphere) I won't want to turn back. It's not an easy decision to
make either. I am truly heartbroken that things have come to this.

In my opinion AWLD doesn't listen to or care about their users. It's
been that way for a long time... so I don't expect it to change.

I think the best thing that could happen for AW would be for AW
management to conclude that they just can't make enough money off of it
to satisfy themselves, and then maybe they would look for someone to buy
the technology from them. Leaving them to do whatever they plan to do
with Netbroadcaster. I don't expect it to get to that before my ID
expires though, so, I'm probably history.

If AWLD is reading this they are probably thinking: "Good riddance!"

:)

Feb 21, 2002, 1:36am

I like that baker analogy.

Several years ago Joe decided the townsfolk were tired of the 30 mile
drive to the next town to get baked goods, so he opened up the
"Townsville Bakery". It was a tremendous success. He and his wife did
all the work and the kids helped too and tended the cash register.

Every year Joe would tell people how well the business was doing. They
hired on a book keeper. The kids went off to college so other people
were hired to help out. Thinking there might be enough business for a
second store, Joe leased some office space from which to manage his
"empire".

People kept asking Joe if he was sure it wasn't better to just stick to
running the bakery in Townsville, but Joe insisted that business was
really good and he was opening two new bakeries in nearby towns.

Staff had to be hired to man the office space, which had grown
considerably. A larger copier had to be obtained, a new modern phone
system. Joe took on a partner from out of town who nobody knew very
well and was rarely seen.

People who visited the other towns noticed that the bakeries that had
opened there had subsequently been closed. But Joe said all was fine,
and they got a second copier, and a new computer system for the office.

The original bakery itself really hadn't changed much at all, except Joe
and his wife were never there any more, all the work being done by hired
staff. In fact it had been so long since Joe had visited the store that
most of the stores customers didn't even know who Joe was any more.

When the prices of those cakes went from $1 to $6 and then back to $3
practically over night and you also read in the paper that the bakery
was being merged with an auto parts dealership in another state... well,
the townspeople were sure puzzled as to what might be going on.

As far as light bulbs, I have to admit to being of the low wattage
variety myself. But I guess after you have been around for as long as
I have, you see patterns in these stories that are unmistakable. I'd
love to know what's really going on at Joe's bakery. I'm sure that some
day I'll hear all the facts, and they won't be that far off from my
guesses.

Where are the Power Puff Girls when you really need them? :)

[View Quote] > If that baker begins to lose business and is about to go bankrupt or must
> pay the bank back for a loan, etc, etc, that money would go towards keeping
> his business alive. Later on he can lower the prices again, but he highers
> the prices hoping enough people will stay to get him more money than before
> and be able to pay off his debt.
>
[View Quote]

Feb 23, 2002, 3:56pm

[View Quote] > LOL, the principle is a pretty stupid thing to debate about.
> *roll eyes* Now AWCom has to ask permission to update their own program? LOL
> :)


Grrrrr... I hate it when people attack principles. Without principles
it would be impossible to have a legal system that works (and failure to
apply principles makes some of our current legal systems work poorly).

Principles are like programming. Establishing a solid principle allows
us to avoid having to go through all the work (for those of us who work
at it) involved in making the hundreds of decisions we make every day.

Without principles, I would leave my house every day, notice that
someone had a nicer car than mine, and have to stand there and decide if
I should steal it. A LOT goes into such a decision. Those of us who
apply principles have it easy. Those of you who don't must get awfully
tired at the end of the day... and awfully tempted. Our jails are full
of people who don't understand the concept of applying principles to
their daily lives.

So, for the benefit of the "principle impaired" among you let me use an
example:

I'm off to visit my condo that I haven't been to for a month. If for
ANY reason during that month the building management has entered the
condo I will find a note there stating when, and why they entered. Its
part of the building bylaws that this will be the case. But even in
building that are rental properties that is also the case. Whether I
own the property, or rent it, I can almost count on that note being
there should such an entry have taken place. Is there a federal or
state law requiring this? Not that I know of.

Now, how do they get into my unit? Do they break the door down? No.
They have a key. Furthermore I KNOW they have a key. They told me so.
They told me who has it, and what are the circumstances under which
it can be used, and who to complain to if I think it has been misused.
Its that way everywhere I have ever lived that involved community
maintenance of property. It is NOT the case where it comes to a
detached house. Nobody has the key to my house. I own the house, and
the land it is on and there is no "building manager" or maintenance
person who's job it is to check up on the place. Different situation,
same P-R-I-N-C-I-P-L-E.

It can be argued that in the present case of the "spy bot" there is no
community property involved. Many (if not most) world owners don't use
AW computers to host their worlds. They have bought a license to use
the server code. They server code remains the property of AW. We all
have the browser that we have licensed from AWLD but the browser remains
the property of AWLD. As far as I can tell though, NO PART of a world
not hosted on an AWLD server belongs to or is the responsibility of
AWLD. If I use the Netscape browser does Netscape have the right to
monitor which web sites I visit? Does Microsoft have the right to
monitor users of its software? If you have read any new lately you
will know that the answer is no. And when there is any remote
appearance of such monitoring, PRINCIPLED companies go to great lengths
to correct the situation.

Again:
<principle impaired mode>
When I go to my condo and find a note that someone has entered I review
it, possibly contact the building manager for details of the event.
When I come back to my house and find that the people I bought the house
from 18 years ago retained a key and are having a party here while I am
gone, I call the police.

The difference? No, not that there was a party involved.... think more
carefully now...

The difference is that in one case I KNOW that the key is in the hands
of someone else and in what cases they will use it. In the other case
the key has been kept secretly, and used without my knowledge
beforehand, and possible has been used many times when I didn't discover it.
</principle impaired mode>

What AWLD has here is a key to our worlds. Citizen number 1. We know
this because we have caught them in our worlds on more than one occasion
doing various things without telling us beforehand (or presumably
afterwards if they got away with it). We only know what that key will
do based on examples from when they have been caught. We don't know
what the full potential of that key is. Nobody at AWLD is talking to
us about that except for brief explanations each time they get caught.

The people at AWLD (and apparent quite a few of their users) are
principle impaired. They don't apply principles as a normal part of
their business activities. By not applying principles, they are forced
to think through in detail the possible consequences of every action
they take. More often than not they miss something in the process.

If they would apply principles that MOST of us accept and use in our day
to day lives, they would save themselves a lot of embarrassment. And
just possibly their company would not be in the predicament they find
themselves now.

What AWLD needs is MORE reliance on principles, not less. It will be
good for us users (for what time we have left) and it will be good for
the company, both now, and in their next incarnation. Some of the
people who run AWLD are over 40 years old. I can forgive you high
schoolers out there, but I can't imaging someone who has been around
more than 40 years not understanding the need to deal with your
customers on honest and forthright basis.

Feb 25, 2002, 12:18am

[View Quote] > Its not a backdoor unless it wasn't made to do that and it is neccesary to
> build the database. The bot will be used in the future for updates and we
> can't have an eruption of threads every time it happens. Its not coping our
> builds or anything its just collecting a few things which will benefit the
> cmmunity but the community has to jump on every little thign AW does and
> make them look like malicous hackers. Why can't you just accept that they
> know what thay're doing (and they do) and leave it alone.
>


What definition of BACKDOOR are you using? Something that does
something that it was not intended to do is usually referred to as a
"Side Effect".


Check this:

--------------------------------
http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/B/backdoor.html

BACKDOOR: Also called a trapdoor. An undocumented way of gaining access
to a program, online service or an entire computer system. The backdoor
is written by the programmer who creates the code for the program. It is
often only known by the programmer. A backdoor is a potential security risk.
--------------------------------

I and a couple of others are using the term properly. An INTENTIONAL
bit of code put in by the programmers (for whatever reason).

You and other keep getting this confused with "What the bot did." and I
think most of us agree that the bot did not do any harm in this
particular case. So there is no need to keep explaining that to us.

Now read the last sentence of that definition: "A backdoor is a
potential security risk."

That has nothing to do with the competence of the programmer. It has
to do with the ability of a dishonest insider, or a hacker on the
outside becoming aware of the backdoor and how to access it. And I know
with a fair degree of certainty that this has been done on occasion.

How do we know the backdoor exists in the first place? Because people
(AWLD people) have used it in the past and slipped up and left tracks.
Just like they did this time, except in the past the tracks have been
things like screwed up builders lists etc. We KNOW, we have EXPERIENCED
this, we are not just hypothesizing here.

It was NOT necessary to build the database (whatever the database
actually is), since the information could have been solicited from
interested world owners.

Feb 26, 2002, 12:21am

[View Quote] > AWLD 1 has always been there and you know it. ALWAYS if you were not aware of it then that's where the problem lies.
> AWLD 1 is needed and quite acceptable.....they can come to my world anytime and inspect it. not a problem. if you have a problem
> with it then you need to find another playground they own this one...:)
>
> Leo :)
>


I only know about it by word of mouth. I have never seen a web page,
help page, or any other hardcopy documentation on it. My first
recollection of it was when its use screwed something up in a world I
helped run. My second knowledge of it was an AW employee playing
around where they had no business. My third knowledge of it was in
these newsgroups where it had been used to screw with someone in another
universe.

Please give me some real examples of why it is "needed", I have yet to
hear one example that was not relatively frivolous (like this index thing).

I have been involved in situations where people asked AWLD for help, in
tracking down stolen objects, among other things. Always the answer
from AWLD has been NO, we don't get involved in such things. Now THAT
might have been a valid use for something like AWLD1 or whatever its
called. But as far as my knowledge goes, it gets used to settle
personal grudges that people with the password have against users who
don't. In fact this index thing is the ONLY time I have heard of it
being used for (in theory) some sort of community purpose. I await
enlightenment.

And please post the URL for the documentation.

Funny how many people claim it is known and documented but not one can
point to the document.

As for finding another playground... I have. But I'm going to play in
this one for a while longer too. Just for grins. What bothers people
so much about this?

Mar 3, 2002, 3:09am

Oh good. Now that the port scanning duel is over we can get back to a
more relevant never-ending argument.

Count me in !

[View Quote] > It is not right that AWC should be able to index worlds without prior
> permission from world owners. Correct, content is your legal property such
> as objects etc.
>
> - SR

Feb 24, 2002, 8:43pm

I think this was directed at my post....


RE: AWLD has filtered me... By that I meant that AWLD management have
indicated publicly for the past 3 years or so that they don't read the
newsgroups. They have also indicated that they are overwhelmed by email
and tgrams. I prefer to complain publicly, so that it is "on the
record". It also spurs other users to think. Thinking, like physical
exercise, is good for you. Another advantage is that when AWLD and or
it's users finally realize that they have screwed up again, I can point
back at my 6 month old posts and say: "See I TOLD you so!!". I of
course take a risk of being publicly proven wrong. But that's pretty
rare of course. And I don't really mind :)

I continue to point out that they don't read the newsgroups, because
that in fact is one of my complaints. I think they SHOULD read them,
and respond regularly (That was a suggestion!). Their claims that they
don't read them are childish IMNSHO.

RE: What the Bot did... I don't really care what the bot did (some
other people may though). My complaint is that they have an
undocumented backdoor to user owned worlds (and universes). If anyone
wants to claim that is *IS* documented, please provide a URL. (And by
documented...I mean documented with complete capabilities of the
backdoor spelled out).

I don't think such backdoors should exist (documented or not). I
suggest they get rid of them. (That was a suggestion!).

Thanks for pointing out the lack of clarity in my previous post.

PS: My complaints are ALWAYS well thought out, if not always well
explained. Tee Hee.

PPS: Not my intent to pick on any individual for defending AWLD. Like
I said, I've done it before, and I'll do it again if I think its
necessary. Anyone who says the complaints are "stupid" should, as you
have advised me, point out specifics... and make suggestions as to why
the complaints are not valid. What I have heard thus far: comparing the
spy bot to Web Search engine bots, is not a valid comparison! A VALID
comparison would be if Internet Explorer were sending information about
my PC back to Microsoft. They (Microsoft) have gotten in trouble about
that in the past and have always bowed to public pressure and removed
the offending backdoor code. Microsoft gets embarrassed when their
screw-ups are publicly pointed out. I'm not sure its possible to
embarrass AWLD.

[View Quote] > It certainly would be a shame to say that moff piett is defending anything
> and everything AWCom has ever done. What he is doing is pointing out the
> stupidity of some of the complaints that have been recently made.
>
> As far as having a duty to complain, if AWLD filtered you, why are you
> complaining here? Take it to e-mail. Otherwise, if they aren't filtering
> you after all, go right ahead. But ONLY if your complaints are well thought
> out and have a suggested solution attached to them.
>
> SW Chris
>
[View Quote]

Feb 24, 2002, 8:45pm

Yep.
What's a baro?

[View Quote] > Did I mange to do it?
>
>
>

Mar 3, 2002, 6:13pm

I wasn't aware until looking it up that "click" was an accepted
alternate. I am a traditionalist though:
-------------------------

From Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) [web1913]:

Clique \Clique\, n. [F., fr. OF. cliquer to click. See Click,
v. i.]
A narrow circle of persons associated by common interests or
for the accomplishment of a common purpose; -- generally used
in a bad sense.

From The Free On-line Dictionary of Computing (13 Mar 01) [foldoc]:

clique

<mathematics> A maximal totally connected subgraph.
Given a graph with nodes N, a clique C is a subset of N
where every node in C is directly connected to every other
node in C (i.e. C is totally connected), and C contains all
such nodes (C is maximal). In other words, a clique contains
all, and only, those nodes which are directly connected to all
other nodes in the clique.

-------------------------

I use the term as a pejorative. There is nothing in the definition
though that says you are not a member of a clique unless you set out to
be.

In another group that I read we are having a discussion about the RIGHT
way to maintain a healthy community. About all that we have agreed on
so far is that it is hard work. There are those of us that want to
simply exclude anyone who doesn't "fit" and others of us who want to
include everyone, or pretty close to everyone. To do either requires
constant attention.

The last few hundred posts (or so it seems) remind me of two drunks
getting into an argument at a bar. Neither one REALLY wants to get into
a fight, so they just shout insults and threats at each other. If
either of them have friends present, they general move in to calm the
situation.

Not here in OUR community though! We do nothing but spur them on! The
community of AW has proven itself inferior to the real world so often
and in so many ways. "You don't like the way we do things? Then GO!"

Is there surprise that there might be someone so cowed by the AW
community that they stay isolated in their own world? Look at the
worlds list. There must be dozens from what I see. I feel sorry for
people, possibly so afraid of what goes on in the real world that they
would seek refuge here in AW only to be met with something worse.

We do indeed have cliques within the AW community. We ARE a clique, and
within our clique are cliques within cliques. None of us can credibly
deny this to anyone who comes here from outside.

If you don't SEE the problem, then you ARE the problem.

Look at the mathematical definition. It talks about connectedness.
Doesn't it seem obvious that a new user of AW would have trouble
connecting? All the social organizations in AW are fully staffed with
people who know somebody who knows somebody who knows ENZO.

What happened to the democracy we were promised? More importantly, what
has ANYONE done to shake up those institutions that have a stranglehold
on what we call our community here?

Last night I visited a tiny build I did a few years ago. It was the
closest thing I could find to GZ. I made a little office building.
Later I tore it down as a joke and made a "ruins" out of it. I was so
sick of seeing the ruins surrounding it. So sick of waiting for the
AWHS to clean things up. Now all the junk in the area has AWHS for
IDs! The trash, abandoned builds, vandalism, at some point became
"historical". And yet, when my ID expires this summer I am told all of
my things will be deleted. I wasn't a member of the right clique I guess.

The AW community should stop gloating about how fair minded, forgiving,
understanding and caring they are. The recent posts make a mockery of
those concepts and not one of the participants, even those who advised
"thinking out of the box" attempted to actually do so themselves.

Wake up AW community, your days are numbered.

Mar 13, 2002, 2:08am

Based on that reply, maybe they are reconsidering their pricing once
again (although I think its too late).

What they need(ed) to apply to the situation is a little more common
sense and a little less accounting. Somehow they don't seem to have
figured out that fewer users means less revenue. Simply adjusting the
prices up every time the user base drops will lead to 6 users paying ten
thousand a month for the pleasure of one another's company. I guess
those folks will be using AW from high speed satellite connection on
their yachts (drinking Starbucks coffee of course!)

I think a lot of us have thrown in the towel on this one. We would
all like to see a comeback, but it's too emotionally draining to keep
one's hopes up.

Based on the 50 or so posts after yours its easy to see that the
remaining users of this newsgroup are still struggling with the concepts
of the copyright law, even after dozens of such discussions in the past.
If that's intended to drown out any true discussion of what faces this
community, so be it. I think many people have tuned out of these
groups and are off somewhere else talking about the future one of many
new technologies. I'll keep reading and posting 'till the bitter end
though ('cause I care) *sniff*.

If you keep taking statistics...make sure to add these: Number of
worlds with someone in them (90 at the moment), number of worlds that
are inhabited, and open (70 or so), number of worlds with more than 2
people (about a dozen). The terms "world", and "universe" have never
seemed so out of place. Maybe "room", "house" and "auditorium" would
be more suitable.

We cudda been a continda !

[View Quote] > After seeing the huge 2800 worlds with the release of the "home page" worlds
> I naturally assumed there would be a big drop once all the trial period
> expired. Sure enough they did drop very quickly. But the drop continued
> and after getting down into the 1400s I decided to keep notes. This was the
> result:
>
> 30/01/2002: 1341
> 31/01/2002: 1319
> 01/02/2002: 1297
> 03/02/2002: 1277
> 07/02/2002: 1266
> 02/03/2002: 1247
> 10/03/2002: 1222
>
> My biggest problem with AW right now is the inablity of tourists to enter
> worlds without the world being enabled to do so. I wrote to AW by email to
> arrange this for my world and got this response:
>
>

Mar 13, 2002, 2:48am

As a public service to those of you so busy with AW events that you
don't follow the news....

Here is what would happen if this event went ahead as planned, using the
Olympic name, and logo: NOTHING

By the time the organization got word of it and had time to do anything
REAL about it (other than have the secretary send out the standard email
response) the event would be over, and all 14 attendees would be on to
other great things. You could have all pleaded ignorance (up till now
at least) and gotten away without having all of your personal belonging
confiscated and being paraded in cages through your local community and
being pelted with stones by the local townspeople).

Why is this committee full of such stuffed shirts? : Because a lot of
their members are probably lawyers. They get paid for being stuffed
shirts. If you got paid what they do... you would be that way too!

How can such common words like "Olympic" be copyrighted? What about
the word in other languages? etc etc etc : Same way the word WINDOWS
can be copyrighted. Microsoft is suing a company that is coming out
with a product called "Lindows". Is it because they are morons? No.
Its because if they don't sue, and then someone calls a product
ZINDOWS and then MINDOWS, soon someone will actually name a product
WINDOWS and when Microsoft sues them, the judge will say that Microsoft
has not done what is necessary to protect their trademark (which
includes going after products with similar names and people using the
name even for nonprofit causes) and Microsoft will be screwed.

The Olympic Committee (whether you like them or not) makes tons of money
on all those stickers, flags, key chains, parkas, T-shirts and on and
on. They get a piece of the action on every bit of it... and if they
find a bit of it where their piece of the action is missing, they go
after that too. All of this adds up to a lot of money with which they
can hire stuffed shirted lawyers.

Anyway... have your event, why not make up your OWN catchy name for it
and invent your OWN fancy 3D logo (that Olympic logo is boringly 2D in
my opinion). Just don't call your even the WINDOWS XP GAMES, or you
will have to have this silly thread all over again.

And while you are at it... Please think about PAYING for software you
use, including AW objects, avatars and even concepts. We always hear
about BIG companies and organizations going after the little guy on this
kind of thing. The reason for that is that the starving artist isn't
in a position to take such actions. If the software you use costs too
much, find some shareware or free ware that will do the same thing.
Every time you register a shareware product you do something to bring
down the prices that the big companies charge. Think about it.

(no this is not aimed at anyone in particular here, just a pet peeve of
mine)

Check the business section of the Sunday paper every now and then and
you won't find US Copyright law so mysterious. (And by the way
International copyright law is much the same, just harder to enforce).

[View Quote] > Yup...I told them that it was a Community event with no income being made.
> I wish I hadn't asked either:(
> But I didn't want to see friends get in trouble....sowwy:(
> And moreso...I was hoping they would give the go ahead....they are a bunch
> of stuffed shirts....but put on a fantastic show!:)
>

Mar 19, 2002, 4:56am

I think you have it exactly right. :)

[View Quote] > We can't fault management for doing their jobs... How about faulting them for
> NOT doing their jobs? Why do you stand for AW management beating up it's users
> when even at higher rates their plan still fails?
>
> Ask yourself these questions and see if you can find answers...
>
> 1. Why have Jp and Rick failed to advertise AW on any television market so that
> people would learn about it?
>
> 2. Why has AW failed to bundle their software with video cards, new pc's etc. so
> that more people would learn about it?
>
> 3. Why has AW failed to have their software on the shelves in stores like others
> that are rapidly growing while AW fails?
>
> I have seen AW spend money and beat up it's users for more money, but simple
> math tells you that even if AW charged every user $1,000 per year they would
> still not cover the amount Rick Noll stated would be needed to run the company.
>
> The key to success in America and the world is advertisement and getting the
> word out! It's not holding a reunion for your handful of employees and friends
> to gamble and booze it up on the company credit card. It's not killing your
> market share by 600% rate hikes. Approximately 30% of users were overseas with a
> 2-1 conversion rate. They are gone. Approximately 30% were handicapped users on
> fixed incomes who were shocked, hurt and run off by the increases. Approximately
> 30% were children who may or may not get their parents to spring for more $$
> during war and recession. The remaining 10%... well they are peeved that their
> friends have been run out and they themselves still feel the taste of the bad
> faith AW dished out January 2nd.
>
> Look at the user count at any time of the day and you will see the numbers are
> about 50% of what they used to be. Very sad considering those numbers were
> climbing up daily prior to Jan 2. It was a deadly decision that AWLD made. And
> it is a sickening shame that they did it too...
>
>
>
>
[View Quote]

Mar 19, 2002, 5:11am

[View Quote] > Hello all --
>
> I felt a post was necessary because today when I came into my world,
> Nova, I saw this: "Warning: this world expires in 25 days."
>
> Nova was established in 1998 and I have allowed the builds to remain from
> the beginning. I kept increasing my world. I went to 40 meters then 50
> and eventually got to the 90 meter point, where I am now. I did it for
> the builders there. I paid so people could build on Nova and express
> themselves. It was a fun thing for me as well, because I experimented in
> making things and helping my builders. Well I have a hard decision to
> make. Renewing Nova will cost me $860 which I have planned on and I have
> readily available. HOWEVER with the NEW AW, I am not feeling the warm
> fuzzies. I am seeing bankrupcy, and me in line with many others never to
> see my money again :( I have been alerting my builders since January what
> my decision is. My decision is to renew Nova but as a smallar world. My
> host is backing it up for me so if AW makes it, after these crazy
> decisions, I will bring Nova back to 90 meters.
>
> Am I the only one here with real concerns?
>


Nope, not at all.


> And another thing comes to mind... I had 5 citizenships as well. These
> were not world related. I created these myself they were not world cits
> and obviously I will not be renewing them. I have given 2 away already to
> friends who were not going to renew. I have one left that I have a taker
> for already. So AW will not get the money for these and I have to wonder
> how many other people have extra cits they will not renew. I plan to
> renew 2 out of 5.
>


I've lost count, but they are all expiring whenever they expire. They
might as well start boxing up the office furniture at AWLD. They can
even blame the whole thing on me. Me and my addiction to Starbucks
coffee. *sigh*


> Your comments are appreciated :)
>
> This sucks big time,
>
> Wings0nite
>
>

Mar 19, 2002, 5:30am

[View Quote] > I am seriously considering opening a world. I have a few die-hard friends
> who are my neighbors on numerous worlds, and AW is important to us online.
> Actually, if you love AW, the cost for the smaller worlds is not much of an
> issue, even if you have to spring for the cost of hosting. (I already have
> adequate FTP space with my dial up, which I keep just for mobile use) Then,
> if you consider the newly raised price of citizenship and the cits included
> with the world servers, owning your world does make some sense. (especially
> the mid-sized worlds)
>
> To me it appears that the owners of the larger worlds are more concerned
> with the loss of the tourist traffic, which leaves some worlds suddenly
> empty. It also appears that the new higher cost of individual citizenship
> may be a part of the current problem.


EXACTLY!
Running a world is a labor of love, to both AW and the community. When
you see it all being carelessly flushed down the drain you get mad VERY
MAD. When you are told that it is somehow YOU the customers fault that
AW is having financial problems you get even madder. At some point you
decide that enough is enough. Even a doormat can get worn out eventually.


>
> We have to realize that AW is a publicly held corporation, and management's
> responsibility is to the stock holders. No corporation can survive in the
> market while operating at a perpetual loss. The AW software itself is the
> main asset, but unless revenue offsets expenses---the future is not
> optimistic. I do feel that AW is a viable enterprise. We can't fault
> management for doing their jobs.
>

Watch the congressional testimony of the Enron executives if you get a
chance. Very instructive regarding this sort of thing. They set
themselves up with multimillion dollar salaries, engaged in all sorts of
phony schemes to make the company appear healthier than it was, and
after it all comes tumbling down, they paint themselves a VICTIMS of
some bad luck and a nasty old Wall Street reporter or two. Of course
the Execs have all the money they need to live out their lives in
comfort, while their thousands of employees are out on the street having
lost their life savings.

As a hard nosed capitalist, I feel that there ARE no excuses for
failure. By definition, good execs succeed when their companies
succeed, bad ones fail when their companies fail. No extenuating
circumstances are allowed.

Whether they were smart enough to drain off a retirement program for
themselves, if (when) AW fails, it will be a failure of its leadership,
no one else should have to share the blame. They had hundreds of good
ideas to choose from, many posted right here in this newsgroup.
Failure to take advantage of them can only be laid at about 4 feet as
I'm counting.

Mar 22, 2002, 2:44am

[View Quote] > I don't care what AW's been doing - you still use manners because it's the
> right thing to do. Would you reply if someone sent you an E-Mail calling
> you incompetent and a complete idiot? Thus, on this particular incident
> (I'm not saying anything about any other incidents), I'll have to side with
> AW. The original letter was very rude and I don't blame ENZO for not
> replying. Were I in his shoes, I certainly wouldn't have.
>
> Perhaps if we all worked on basic communication skills, there wouldn't be so
> many miscommunications around here.
>
> -Brant
>

Manners are good, calling someone a liar is bad, sometimes even if they
are one. But aren't we wasting time arguing about that? The company
that Rick is the co-head of, is about to lose quite a few users over
this, and it would make sense for him, or one of his employees to clear
this up. There are 3 or 4 opinions among us about what will happen,
there has been no definitive response from the company. Everything
posted here has been second hand information.

Maybe that is exactly what the company wants to do. Leave the issue in
doubt so that people will sign up, just to protect their old property.
At this point, I have already made up my mind. Like me, there is a
group of people who will let their cits expire no matter what they say
now. There is another group who will sign up for more abuse no matter
what. And then there are those in the middle.

I suggest that the company owes those people a response to the question
NO MATTER HOW IT IS POSED. We are talking good business sense here,
not manners.

In answer to your question: "Would you reply if someone sent you an
E-Mail calling you incompetent and a complete idiot?" The fact is, that
two or three people e-mailed them back in January about this, and got no
response. As far as we know those requests were polite, and the more
recent impolite one was the one he chose to respond to. So, if the
issue is "what works", sounds like politeness is not the effective approach.

But the company, whether asked by newsgroup, e-mail or carrier pigeon,
owes its users a definitive, and PUBLIC answer. And, not an answer by
means that can't be posted here out of concern over manners. :)

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