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dotar sojat // User Search

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new citizenship

Jan 2, 2002, 6:22pm
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Yes it does mean that any "new" user coming into AW will be $114 per year.
<p><i><u>&lt;quoted from letter></u></i>
<br><b>To say it in business terms, the cost to revenue ratio has grown
disproportionately over the last year. The costs of adding staff,</b>
<br><b>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; hardware and connectivity,
along with a sagging economy have eaten into our revenues, much like many
other software companies.</b>
<br><b>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Contracts we counted on have
lapsed as companies have gone out of business. While we firmly believe
that markets for our product will</b>
<br><b>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; develop and grow, we are increasingly
in a position where we have to make very difficult decisions.</b>
<br><i><u>&lt;end letter quote></u></i>
<p>If the sagging economy is hurting a big business by eating into it's
revenues, multiplying the price by approximately 6 is not going to help.
All they will do is drive current and potential customers away. How will
that help them get capitol? I suspect a more fair and less expensive price
hike would serve the company and the community better. I would be willing
to pay $30 for my cit a year. Thats not too big a chunk out of a working
class joe's pocket.
<p>You wanna cut down your costs for connectivity and bandwidth? Get rid
of the darn 3D homepages! They are sucking the universe dry.
<br>&nbsp;
[View Quote]

new citizenship

Jan 2, 2002, 6:34pm
While I myself would oppose a partnership with America OffLine I do agree a
partnership with a big company could be a good thing. Even though they tried it
with Juno and it seemed to be a flop.

[View Quote] > Cutting down those 3d homepages would be the wisest choice.. there goes a
> good chunk of the money they need.. I would also be willing to pay $30.. not
> $100 +. Partnerships with a big company.. let's say AOL would generate
> quite a lot of needed funds. There would be a possibility of half a million
> immigrants coming to AW. Not only that, but AW's partners would want to get
> in on some of this technology and have universes.. so that's more money for
> them. They're not the only ones in an economic slump.. we also take part in
> it. They're going to lose most of their customers with this.. and that is
> not a good thing.
>
> --Bowen--

new citizenship

Jan 2, 2002, 6:56pm
Oh I agree with you, they need to find viable partners. However finding one with
the cashflow to do it could be a challange. My thing against AOL is a personal
hatred anyway. I feel that any ISP who charges by the minute is evil and should
be destroyed.

[View Quote] > Juno can't really be considered a good partner.. it took me an hour to find
> a link to the activeworlds free cit. Even then I didn't qualify because I
> wasn't a "premium" user. There's quite a few companies that would probably
> take on a partnership. A company losing a couple thousand into AW would be
> much less hurtful then me giving up $100 for something that might not
> continue for long. As this letter states.
>
> --Bowen--
>
[View Quote]

new citizenship

Jan 2, 2002, 7:18pm
I pay $20 a month for full unlimited, non throttled, access. Not thought AOL who
I would also have to pay long distance costs for since they have no ISP's in my
local callign area (yes I checked).

[View Quote] > LoL AOL charges $21 a month where I live :). Maybe you used it 10 years ago
> before the inacted that "one time pay" policy? Yeah I hated that too... I
> use Timewarner's Cable access.. pretty good for $40 a month :)
>
> --Bowen--
>
[View Quote]

new citizenship

Jan 2, 2002, 7:20pm
Good point! If AW wants to run a gobal community, they need to take the entire
global economy into view before they enact any price changes.

[View Quote] [View Quote]

worlds and citizenships

Jan 2, 2002, 6:13pm
Well for my own opinion...

This new "pricing model" will effect the income of AW.com Inc in a bad way. By
requireing a credit card number for ALL new users and eliminating tourist mode
entirely, they will be cutting their own throats. not everyone on the net has a
credit card, or is willign to send the credit info over the net. What about the
people who want to pay with a check and be a tourist while they wait for the
check to arrive at AW.com? Thats how I paid, and how I will continue to pay.

[View Quote] > I totally agree with your opinions Coz.. the good majority of AW, I would
> say, is teens (hence why AWTeen is extremely popular). Although there is
> still a lot of adults, I would have to say the substantial majority is still
> Teens. $100 some odd a year is quite a lot for a teen whom legally can't
> work yet. This is why I am against this new system.. if it does go into
> effect. I would expect the active users in AW to drop from around 500 to
> about 100-200. How does everyone else feel about this? My big question
> is.. do you want to lose, as Rick said, the people who love this and the
> community? (in my opinion the people who enjoy using this aren't extremely
> rich) Sure some will still be here, the ones whom can afford it.
>
> --Bowen--
>
[View Quote]

worlds and citizenships

Jan 2, 2002, 6:54pm
Gee Brant if $100 a year is not too much for most teenagers, then get me the
fountain of youth please!
I am not a teen, and I work for a living. $100 a year for the privilage to chat
is a bit high. Heck I can go to Worlds chat (no where near as nice as AW), and
still have 3D chat for free!
Get rid of the stuff that drains the system of AW and lets see if that helps,
THEN look at what they need to do to cover the losses that remain.
I know that if new users after tomorrow have to pay $114 a year then those of us
who have been here for a while won't be paying much lower than that. I for one
do not wish to pay my hard earned money so those stupid 3D homepages can stay
going. Eliminate the dead weight, the stuff that shows no profit only loss, then
re-evaluate.

[View Quote] > I disagree. $100 a year isn't a lot for many teenagers. Around here, if
> you go to the movies ($8.50) and buy a popcorn ($4.00) and a soda ($2.50),
> as well as pay for gas and car maintenence in getting to the theater
> ($1.00), the total comes to about $16.00 for one night. Thus, a trip to the
> movies that lasts two or three hours is almost 1 and a half times more
> expensive than a subscription to AW for a month.
>
> The question isn't whether most people can afford to pay (anyone can set
> aside $2.00 per month) - it's whether people will want to pay instead of
> buying other things that they can afford. Personally, if 3.3 is as good as
> AW makes it sound, I'd definately put out the money. Heck, the elimination
> of tourists isn't that bad after all - there won't be any more annoying
> tourists at GZ who only cause trouble and can't be kept out. With the new
> system, everyone is responsible for his or her own actions, and people can
> still try AW for free.
>
> I lied there. What's going to determine whether I pay or not is whether
> everyone else will put aside the money, not whether I will. If AW's
> community loses interest and there's only 100 citizens logged on at 10PM VRT
> on a Sunday evening (which seems to be AW's busiest day), then I probably
> won't pay.
>
> AW made a big mistake not by proposing the price change but by stating that
> 3.3 could possibly be the last version if such a pricing scheme was not
> implemented. Everyone knows that 3.3 can't be the last version of AW if
> they want to continue as a feasible company. Technology changes, and after
> a year or so AW would start to become obsolete, and people wouldn't even put
> out the lower $20.00 a year for citizenships anymore. 3.3 being the "last
> version" is something that simply isn't an option.
>
> By the tone of the letter, this plan is far from finalized yet, so I'm not
> going to spam AWGate protesting mindlessly like a lot of people are,
> especially since nobody, not even the posters to this newsgroup, knows what
> the pricing for current citizens will be. Everyone needs to calm down and
> talk about this change reasonably after they know ALL the facts, not fire
> off two-sentence letters consisting of obscenities to ENZO screaming that
> they disagree with the price change.
>
> The people starting these ridiculous petitions that have one-sentence
> justifications, spamming telegrams to AWC staff members, flooding inboxes,
> and screaming and yelling at ground zeroes are only making the situation
> worse.
>
[View Quote]

worlds and citizenships

Jan 2, 2002, 6:58pm
Well I 3would not want them to cut the cits that come with worlds, however if
they offered a choice of two prices for worlds (one with cits and a lower one
without them) that could be nice.

[View Quote] > Yeah a lot of those are good points. AW needs to get into some
> partnership.. we're all experiencing this economic slump, give us an SDK so
> we can make our own browsers, or something else to that effect. *note don't
> release the source code this could lead to some harmful factors* Make a
> linux or mac version of it, I know a lot of people who would pay $20-30 a
> year for a linux or mac version. There's a lot of other options that they
> could do to lesson the burdon on us. Cutting 3d homepages for example, this
> was a blunder the very first day 3.2 came out wasting the bandwidth and
> driving their expenses up. Partnerships with other companies would be
> another great way instead of "selling" the technology. Lowering the cost of
> the world licenses by $20 would stimulate more people into buying worlds..
> thus increasing revenue higher then it would normally be.. not by much but
> it's more then they had. Taking out those free citizenships with the worlds
> and lowering it another $20. These are all some ideas that AW could do to
> get some money. How do you guys feel about these.. would they seem better
> then charging US $120 a year?
>
> --Bowen--

worlds and citizenships

Jan 2, 2002, 7:08pm
LOL, 40 hours a week? I wish I had that. I am a manager in training for my step
dad's Texaco station and I barely clear 30 a week due to the current economy and
the travel scares going on. This week (due to the holiday slump) I am gettign 10
hours. Lucky for me the holiday slump is almost over and this week is our
slowest annually each year. So my hours will go back up, but even $50 a year
hurts for me.

Paying child support, my rent, food costs, electricity, phone costs. Heck I
barely make it now. AW is my relaxation from the stress of IRL. I acnnot afford
to pay through the nose to relax. I will stick with AW as long as I can afford
to do so. But if they raise the rates for existing users anywhere near what they
are doing for newbies, my days with AW are numbered.

One other thought. If they jack the price for new users that high, where do they
propose to get the new blood to invigorate the community from time to time from
anyway?

[View Quote] > I agree with dotar. Just because it's not a lot for you or other teens in
> your area doesn't mean it isn't for all the rest of us.. minimum wage isn't
> exactly "easy" to live off of, especially when it's $5 an hour where I live.
> And not all teans can work 40 hours a week. Not all teens can get jobs
> either.. competition for the 10 work spots at burger king LoL. I pay for
> everything, haircuts, clothes, medical visits, all except room and board,
> then there's college for me coming up at the end of this year.. it's kinda
> hard for me, not to mention anyone else. :\ Why not lower do other things
> which could increase revenue (3d homepages gone like dotar said)?
>
> --Bowen--
>
[View Quote]

worlds and citizenships

Jan 2, 2002, 7:30pm
Are they raiseing the price on the uniservers? I think if a big company
could afford a uniserver then they might also be able to afford to shoulder
some of the burden being put on our backs.

[View Quote] > What about pricing of worlds and citizenships that are coming with them?
> http://www.activeworlds.com/letter.html
> icey

worlds and citizenships

Jan 2, 2002, 7:31pm
And I do agree Brant, going out and signing all these petitions and yelling at
GZ's is not going to solve a darn thing.

[View Quote] > I disagree. $100 a year isn't a lot for many teenagers. Around here, if
> you go to the movies ($8.50) and buy a popcorn ($4.00) and a soda ($2.50),
> as well as pay for gas and car maintenence in getting to the theater
> ($1.00), the total comes to about $16.00 for one night. Thus, a trip to the
> movies that lasts two or three hours is almost 1 and a half times more
> expensive than a subscription to AW for a month.
>
> The question isn't whether most people can afford to pay (anyone can set
> aside $2.00 per month) - it's whether people will want to pay instead of
> buying other things that they can afford. Personally, if 3.3 is as good as
> AW makes it sound, I'd definately put out the money. Heck, the elimination
> of tourists isn't that bad after all - there won't be any more annoying
> tourists at GZ who only cause trouble and can't be kept out. With the new
> system, everyone is responsible for his or her own actions, and people can
> still try AW for free.
>
> I lied there. What's going to determine whether I pay or not is whether
> everyone else will put aside the money, not whether I will. If AW's
> community loses interest and there's only 100 citizens logged on at 10PM VRT
> on a Sunday evening (which seems to be AW's busiest day), then I probably
> won't pay.
>
> AW made a big mistake not by proposing the price change but by stating that
> 3.3 could possibly be the last version if such a pricing scheme was not
> implemented. Everyone knows that 3.3 can't be the last version of AW if
> they want to continue as a feasible company. Technology changes, and after
> a year or so AW would start to become obsolete, and people wouldn't even put
> out the lower $20.00 a year for citizenships anymore. 3.3 being the "last
> version" is something that simply isn't an option.
>
> By the tone of the letter, this plan is far from finalized yet, so I'm not
> going to spam AWGate protesting mindlessly like a lot of people are,
> especially since nobody, not even the posters to this newsgroup, knows what
> the pricing for current citizens will be. Everyone needs to calm down and
> talk about this change reasonably after they know ALL the facts, not fire
> off two-sentence letters consisting of obscenities to ENZO screaming that
> they disagree with the price change.
>
> The people starting these ridiculous petitions that have one-sentence
> justifications, spamming telegrams to AWC staff members, flooding inboxes,
> and screaming and yelling at ground zeroes are only making the situation
> worse.
>
[View Quote]

worlds and citizenships

Jan 2, 2002, 7:53pm
Oh I know, they would never jepardize their revenue by charging those who can
afford to pay.

[View Quote] > You have GOT to be joking right?
>
[View Quote]

worlds and citizenships

Jan 2, 2002, 8:13pm
$9.50 US funds a month. Thats worse than almost any other chat on the net.

[View Quote] > "The question isn't whether most people can afford to pay (anyone can set
> aside $2.00 per month)"
>
> I believe that was $2.00 a week or so. It's about $10 a month they said.
>
[View Quote]

worlds and citizenships

Jan 2, 2002, 8:19pm
And without the potential clients the business's will have no friggen interest
in beign here. As for my question I am serious, are the business's havign to
pay an increased amount? Or are just the cits gettign the shaft?

[View Quote] > Man that is warped. Pay for what you use, don't expect to be subsidised by
> those in a better position to pay. Has it occurred to you that maybe you're
> just being asked to pay your way?? With less public cits AW has one less
> revenue stream, but without the real business there IS NO AW!! Its not
> difficult.
>
[View Quote]

worlds and citizenships

Jan 2, 2002, 8:21pm
Oh and as for that subsidized by others issue. Its not even part of the point. If
AW was in financial straits they should have let us know long before this. If they
had, maybe somethign acceptable to all parties could have been arrived at by now.

[View Quote] > And without the potential clients the business's will have no friggen interest
> in beign here. As for my question I am serious, are the business's havign to
> pay an increased amount? Or are just the cits gettign the shaft?
>
[View Quote]

worlds and citizenships

Jan 2, 2002, 8:53pm
You obviously miss my point. Oh well. Whats done is done, whats said is said.
When my cit expires in April, I will be finding another chat to call home,
unless AW comes up with a more reasonable pricing plan.

[View Quote] > Firstly this is only going to be an issue when your citizenship is next up
> for renewal. That means that the vast majority of people bitching and crying
> about this aren't even going to be affected for some time.
>
> Secondly, citizens have been paying a pittance for AW since it was first
> charged for ... $20 a year ... $1.65 a month. Its high time the "community"
> paid their way.
>
> Thirdly, high value "potential clients" don't often come from public forums
> ... its called "Sales and Marketing" - corporations need to be SOLD things
> like this, they rarely just land in your lap.
>
> Also, I don't see any other way to read a statement like "I think if a big
> company could afford a uniserver then they might also be able to afford to
> shoulder some of the burden being put on our backs.". They have been
> carrying you so far ... and you're asking for that to continue. I don't see
> any reason why.
>
[View Quote]

worlds and citizenships

Jan 3, 2002, 4:12am
Thats still $60 and too much!

[View Quote] > tell them that they should make it like 5 dollars a month instead! :)
>
[View Quote]

worlds and citizenships

Jan 3, 2002, 5:58pm
I know I cannot afford to have them hitting a credit card every month for my
citizenship. First off that would be bad on interest rates, secondly no CC
anyway, I hate the things and will nto use them.

[View Quote] > you wouldnt pay it all at once...makign it every month 3 months or 6 months
> ora year would make it easier for evryone to pay becuase not evenone can pay
> so frequantly or every year in one big fat sum
>
[View Quote]

Question

Jan 2, 2002, 7:51pm
No I am not askign this in any way meant to slight ROland or anyone at
AW.com however I need to get this one out in the open air.

Point to consider #1: If they do not get the price change they want, 3.3
will be the final version.

Point to consider #2: If they do get the price change they want the
universe will lie empty more often than not.

Point to consider #3: If 3.3 is the final version then Active Worlds
itself as a viable entity on the internet will basicly cease to be by
falling slowly into the pit of being obsolete.

Now my question for AW is this. If you cannot afford the expenses you
currently have, why did the community at learge not hear a thing about
it until the day before the proposed plan goes into action?

Question

Jan 2, 2002, 8:04pm
If Mauz's site is correct, and I have no reason to doubt it is. 50,000
citizens are currently resitered with aw.
With a pricing increase on citizenship of 50% ($30 a year) that would
generate $1,500,000 over the new year for AW.
With an increase of only 80% putting the yearly at $100 people are
projectign they will lose 75% or more citizens. We will assume 75% for
simplicity.

That will put citizen count at approx 12.500 registered citizens (I know
these numbers are not the end all but bear with me on this).
Now 12,500 citizens paying $100 a year will generate $1,250,00.

You tell me which way is more cost effective.

[View Quote] > No I am not askign this in any way meant to slight ROland or anyone at
> AW.com however I need to get this one out in the open air.
>
> Point to consider #1: If they do not get the price change they want, 3.3
> will be the final version.
>
> Point to consider #2: If they do get the price change they want the
> universe will lie empty more often than not.
>
> Point to consider #3: If 3.3 is the final version then Active Worlds
> itself as a viable entity on the internet will basicly cease to be by
> falling slowly into the pit of being obsolete.
>
> Now my question for AW is this. If you cannot afford the expenses you
> currently have, why did the community at learge not hear a thing about
> it until the day before the proposed plan goes into action?

Question

Jan 2, 2002, 8:10pm
AMEN! Give us the straight story and we will listen. But next time instead of
just picking a number you want to make for a profit, let those of us who pay
YOUR bills have a say in it too AW. I would pay $30 a year for AW and consider
it worth while. And doing that you would keep your high user counts, and make
more money.

[View Quote] > As long as it's the absolute truth.. I don't want one of those "this is what
> I want you to hear" deals.
>
> --Bowen--

Question

Jan 2, 2002, 8:30pm
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<html>
I did read it carefully Brant, however have you EVER known a company to
set a price for the old timers that was substantially lower than the price
for the newbies. Also YOU should read the FAQ on it...
<p>{quoted from the faq at <A HREF="http://www.activeworlds.com/tech/faq.asp">http://www.activeworlds.com/tech/faq.asp</A>}
<p>I have just renewed at $19.95 per year and my registration will not
expire until January of next year. Will I still have to pay the $9.50 per
month?
<br>No. Your registration is valid until January of next year. At that
point when it comes time to renew, you will need to pay the new rate of
$9.50 per month.
<p>{end of quote}
<p>Seems they already have the pricing model figured out but are not wanting
to let us all know yet. And I quote "<b><i><u><font color="#FF0000">No.
Your registration is valid until January of next year. At that point when
it comes time to renew, you will need to pay the new rate of $9.50 per
month.</font></u></i></b><font color="#000000">"</font><font color="#000000"></font>
<p><font color="#000000">So you see, they have already decided to shaft
us who already were here for our loyalty. We worked hard for what we have
here, and have done our part to be supportive, yet this is our thanks?
If this plan does fully go into action my cit expires on April 27, and
I will not renew since I cannot afford that kinda outlay jus to chat.</font><font color="#000000"></font>
[View Quote]

Question

Jan 2, 2002, 8:43pm
TY for the clarification.

[View Quote] [View Quote]

Pricing Model FAQ

Jan 3, 2002, 4:02am
Yep, maybe this whole thing is just so they can flood the worlds list even more.
Maybe they felt that 2000+ worlds was not enough for them. *EG*

[View Quote] > I read this closely. According to their updated price structure,
> citizenships given with worlds will not be effected. So, on citizen renewal,
> you buy a 10/5 world <initial cost, $69.95 registration + $10 world fee,
> renewal at $10 annually>. Included with the cost of this world is 1
> citizenship. The first year, you will realize a $34 savings, the second year
> more like $104 savings...
>
[View Quote]

Price Changes: Can we talk? :o)

Jan 3, 2002, 4:01am
Aye, I also would be willing to pay a "fair" increase for my
citizenships.

[View Quote] > Well said, Jude.
>
> <snipped>

Other universes

Jan 3, 2002, 3:59am
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
We alrwady have the world from AW on the price for existing citizens. Check
their FAQ at hppt://www.activeworlds.com/tech/faq.asp Read it carefully.
<p>Question asked on the FAQ
<br>"I have just renewed at $19.95 per year and my registration will not
expire until January of next year. Will I still have to pay the $9.50 per
month?"
<br>Answer to it, pay attention now
<br>"No. Your registration is valid until January of next year. <font color="#FF0000">At
that point when it comes time to renew, you will need to pay the new rate
of $9.50 per month.</font>"
<p>Sounds to me like AW already has the screws ready to turn on our thumbs.
[View Quote]

Who will leave

Jan 3, 2002, 3:56am
If the current plan goes all the way through I leave when my most current cit
account expires.

[View Quote] > Depends if they give existing users a special discount or not, which they
> haven't decided.
>
[View Quote]

Who will leave

Jan 3, 2002, 7:25pm
Well with some creative shuffling of my accounts I am now good till Nov 1st.
However with them planning to auto delete the builds of expired users, there
goes the large cave and river complex I built in alpha world. Unless they are
willing to do something to allow it's ownership shifted into my other cit # now.
But I know how likely that is. Its a grand build and I will be taking quite a
few screenshots of it to save the memories. Its a pity that this deletion thing
will also ruin Lara's Interesting Places To Visit list.

[View Quote] > I will stay if I can manage to... I'll stay to the last day if I can... I
> hope that before my cit expires (quite a bit yet), they'll come to sense and
> change the prices again... at least I can hope ;-))
>
> KAH
>
[View Quote]

Let me tell of a tale 'bout a man named George..

Jan 3, 2002, 5:46pm
After sleeping on the matter (not easy to do with the flu), I have decided I
will ride it all out as long as my most recently purchased citizenship last.
BUT, I must express extreme displeasure at the un-professional method of
announcing this pricing change. If they had this plan worked up months ago as
some of those "in the know" claim, we should have had more than a 24 hour
notice.

[View Quote] > convinced
> very
>
> I dont think its a lat ditch attempt - I did say though, that with the
> market the way it is at the moment, that we just have to have faith in them.
>
> I have faith in Rick, if its one thing that I learnt about him in the time I
> worked for AW, and that is that he genuinely loves Activeworlds, and will do
> whatever he can for it. Yes, I am also sure that this is probably only a
> small part of it.
>
> Just have faith in the driver, I'm sure he'll get us all to where we want to
> go. If he doesnt, well, then its been a hell of a ride, right?
>
> F.

Cooking up some E N Z O bacon

Jan 3, 2002, 5:52pm
Read the FAQ at http://www.activeworlds.com/tech/faq.asp
They come right out in that FAQ and say the renewal price when current
citizenships expire will be $9.50 per month.

[View Quote] > Now that everyone has retired for the evening and the screaming in now just
> quiet chatter, I would just like to say that there has to be another way
> around this problem. First, there has been no mention of what the renewal
> rate on citizenship will be for those of us who are already citizens. I pray
> that those at AWCom will cut us some slack on the finances, if for no other
> reason, but that we, the citizens, are the reason that AW has thrived as
> long as it has. Without us.....there would be no Activeworlds. I do believe
> that the upgrades are necessary to keep AW ticking so I do agree that there
> is definately a need for more profit instead of loss, so I'm willing to pay
> a little bit more per year (not month) to keep it's beautiful little heart
> ticking. However, that doesn't mean I'm willing to pay anything above a 50%
> increase ($29.95/yr). Come Jan 3, 2003 if you need to boost it a bit more,
> I'm sure I would be flexible then too. Just remember this E N Z
> O.........pigs get fed.....but hogs get slaughtered :o)
>
> MoJoBoNeS
> 322102

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