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Mar 9, 2003, 5:00am

How do you know what they think? That is the weakest excuse ever. Well
almost. Your excuse about justifying the destruction of the Columbia is
still number one.

Chris

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Mar 9, 2003, 5:01am

Exactly. I don't have a high regard for either of them. :P

SW Chris

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Mar 9, 2003, 5:03am

There are two definitions of republican and democrat/liberal. In Europe the
scale is very large. Most Europeans do not see a difference between the
USA's republicans and democrats. They see us as mostly liberal.

And while I certainly hesitate to believe anything count dracula says about
politics, some European republicans are indeed neo-nazis.

SW Chris

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Mar 9, 2003, 5:04am

FINALLY someone who can sum up their feelings in one sentance! I luv ya
man! :D

But not in that... way... :P

Chris

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Mar 9, 2003, 5:05am

I believe the key term here is "cooperation without compliance", quoted from
Mr. Blix himself.

SW Chris

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Mar 9, 2003, 5:06am

Dont' worry about it. :)

But they found the Al-Samuud missiles. Saddam is lying and can't be
trusted. We can agree on at least that, right? :)

SW Chris

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Mar 11, 2003, 1:56am

Rwanda, Pol Pott... a Libyan dictator of a certain name...

Chris

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Mar 11, 2003, 1:58am

Just ignore him. This it totally off-topic. I don't see how this relates
to the current situation in any way.

SW Chris

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Mar 11, 2003, 1:59am

um... Huh? Explain in fewer words, please. :)

Chris

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Mar 11, 2003, 2:04am

*calmly points to that undeclared cluster missile that was found this
weekend* Doesn't matter where they launch them from, or who does it. Fact
is if he has them, he'll sell em. Better safe than sorry. The reason for a
war is simply those four words.

SW Chris

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Mar 11, 2003, 2:04am

One more reason why drawing party lines is absolute rubbish.

Chris

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Mar 11, 2003, 2:08am

Wow. Did you read the entire thing?

I dunno if I could wade through that. But if you did, I'll try. :)

I skipped down to Number 73... sounds like "better safe than sorry" is a
viable option, basing my opinion solely from that part.

Chris

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Mar 11, 2003, 2:09am

You know what I mean. Stop playing word games. Or at least prove that you
aren't before I answer that question. :) This debate tires me.

Chris

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Mar 11, 2003, 2:11am

All of the Iraqis I have seen, in the United States or abroad, have been
100% in favor of a coalition going into Iraq and taking out Saddam. Refute
that.

SW Chris

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Mar 11, 2003, 2:12am

Well you need to answer this question to find the answer to yours. Who made
it a rule that pre-emptive defensive strikes were prohibited by
international law?

Chris

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Mar 11, 2003, 2:16am

I knew all that, but thanks for enlightening those who didn't. Point still
stands. The coalition will be the one who will be fighting this war if it
happens. They're not asking Kuwait or Saudia Arabia to, like we did when we
gave weapons to Saddam and Bin Laden. They're doing it themselves.

SW Chris

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Mar 11, 2003, 2:23am

All of my arguements are factually based. Yours are not. Guess who would
win in a debate?

1. I'm not racist. So I can't be a Nazi. References available upon
request.
2. I personally think Bush should ease off of Iraq and concentrate on Iran.
In light of recent news, a nuclear Iran could sweep in and usurp a
militarily weakened Iraq. But since policy can't be changed that quickly,
and Saddam is still a credible threat (i.e. Better safe than sorry), I
support military action. I do not support my government's actions or their
motives 100%. You want an example? I just gave you one.
3. Saddam's had 12 years. I'm not trigger happy. I'm sick of the UN's
endless resolutions and sympathetic to a country's exiles who are crying out
and asking for someone to do something about Saddam. This whole situation
reminds me of Rwanda, which also asked for help, but the UN did nothing.
4. Ignorant? Perhaps it is you that is that. I can back up my arguments
with facts. Can you?
5. Paranoid? Better safe than sorry. If you call that paranoid, then I
say to you that you need a finer command of the English language. :) I'm
prudent.
6. Stupid? Again, my arguements are factually based.

Chris

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Mar 11, 2003, 2:24am

Just how old are you, then? I'm 20. 21 in June 1. You prove me wrong
every time? I find that very hard to believe, since you never present any
sources of your information.

Chris

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Mar 11, 2003, 2:26am

Principles above politics. That's why I like Bush. :)

Popular opinion is still with the President. So don't throw a party yet.
But even if it wasn't, popular opinion shouldn't be the deciding factor when
deciding rights and wrongs. Otherwise you get certain folks who can follow
the passions of the crowd, if you know what I mean.

Chris

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Mar 11, 2003, 2:27am

First off... my quote was "It's not finishing up daddy's business."

It's NOT finishing up daddy's business. NOT revenge. Read it right.
Chris

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Mar 11, 2003, 2:31am

-----------------
And if this was is about a revange ( as you actually said) , how come USA
did not attack directly after the attack, why wait this long, and if one has
waited this long, what is the harm of waiting a bit longer ?
-----------------

How long do you want us to wait?

No no no! Count! You disappoint me! >_< You refute against my so called
"claim" that this war is about revenge. If Bush has waited this long, then
it's not about revenge. That's your unfinished though. And then you say in
the next paragraph that it is about revenge?

Honest? More like telling you what you want to hear.

Chris

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Mar 11, 2003, 2:31am

Coalition troops.

Chris

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Mar 11, 2003, 2:32am

How do you kill Saddam if you don't go to war?

Chris

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Mar 11, 2003, 2:33am

It's off topic. I want facts about the topic. And you never provide any!

It still seems that you refuse to accept what all great philosophers will
tell you. That opinion without fact is a useless opinion.

Chris

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Mar 11, 2003, 2:35am

But he "lied" when the UN Security resolution gave him a "last chance, or
else". If even you are going look the other way and not care about UN
resolution, what good is it? How many last chances should this guy get?

Again, peace at all costs is not peace.

Chris

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Mar 11, 2003, 2:37am

Oh yeah... how do you ensure all of those undeclared weapons are found?

Chris

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Mar 11, 2003, 2:38am

Do I hear silent agreement? ;)

SW Chris

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Mar 11, 2003, 3:18am

I'm going to end the arguement right here by telling you exactly what will
happen. Yes folks, it's spoiler time!

1. March 11 - The UN Security Council defeats the final resolution to give
Saddam one last last last last last chance.

2. Coalition forces invade Iraq anyway. The war is over in a week or two.
During this time, North Korea invades South Korea.

3. US and South Korean military push North Korea back. N. Korea's lines
break and the army retreats back into its country. South Korea and US
military follow across the 33rd parallel.

4. US and South Korean military decimated by detonation of North Korean
nuclear warhead. Days later analysis indicates the explosion took place
underground amongst the tunnels that spread all throughout North and South
Korea.

5. Opponents to the United States are quick to blame the USA. USA's
economy fails and falls to a level between the Great Depression and the
current market. The United States is no longer a superpower. Chirac is
beside himself with joyous rapture. But as a result, the world economy
falls to similar levels. Worldwide depression. Chirac is sad and gets mad
at the USA. The United States is blamed by the whole of Europe for the
worlds troubles and for the nuclear explosion, even though it was Kim Jong
(or for you conspiracy theorists, his Chinese puppeteer) who chose to press
the trigger.

6. China (Finally!) negotiates a standdown of North Korean forces. But
only in exchange for Taiwan. China becomes the new world superpower and
escapes any blame whatsoever.

There. Ya happy!? :P

Chris


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Mar 12, 2003, 8:18pm

Opinion, opinion, opinion. :)

Ananas, the only reason you think that is because you don't have 3000 dead
in your country in one day. That kind of thing is going to make the beehive
buzz.

And furthermore, I believe I can now make the general observation that most
people who oppose the war are those folks who haven't seen a day of
oppression in their lives (which just happen to be white people). Whereas
folks like Jewish holocaust survivors such as Elie Weisel, scores of Iraqi
ex-patriots, American indians, and white kids like me who've been picked on
in school but are stronger for that experience know that injustice to any
civilization is not something one lays down and takes over and over and over
again.

Oh oh. You're going to try to get me on the question of "What is justice?"
right? Well, you can debate generalities all you want, but that's not going
to stop the fact that Saddam's going down, regardless of lucrative European
and Russian oil contracts and continuous promises of placation under the
stupid Inspection program that doesn't even have enough manpower to cover a
country the size of Iraq and only works if there is a sizable military force
threatening to invade. At least that's according to one of the senior
inspectors in Baghdad and the UN Security Council, respectively.

Most people can reconsile their disagreements, but I guess we just have to
resort to namecalling instead. It just means you've ran out of things to
argue about. So I'm butting out of this for the duration of the war. I
think you'll be hard pressed to find anyone to debate you any further,
especially with two anarchists who are so far out there in their views that
I don't even know if they're on the right or left! Ananas seems to be the
only clear-thinking one out there.

Thanks guys for the rousing debate. I'll try to be tactful from here on
out. I don't intend to insult anyone. Ananas I respect your opinions but I
think you're dead wrong. Others have brought new insight to me into the
European attitude concerning war. So I guess I did learn something and now
I have more firepower for the next round. :D I'll see you after V-Day.

And thus, I say this with the most obvious sarcasm I can muster. Instead of
fighting each other, let's turn our attention to a common enemy. France!
Chirac, go surrender to somebody and butt out. :P

Cheers,
Chris

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Mar 12, 2003, 7:47pm

hmm... didn't mean to post this as a new topic...

Chris

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