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Jul 12, 2001, 9:35pm

Good plan, your filtered.

Moria


[View Quote] > If someone doesn't want something on their computer, they should find a
way
> to filter it.

Jul 27, 2001, 6:21am

Actually there are many books which do exactly this:) both national and
international:) The tax people check them regularly, and file reports on
income recieved against business name in different countries, and in most
countries it is a criminal offence not to be in them if you are doing
buisiness as a buisiness. If you are doing some homework, like Objects for
aw that you get paid for, then often just declaring all the revenue on tax
forms will exempt you from the legal side, until you achieve a certain
revenue, but if that revenue is not seperately declared, and is found, then
there are huge questions to answer:)

To call yourself a buisiness is to give yourself a legal title.. dont use
it unless you own it:)

Moria

[View Quote] >It's not as if
> there's some big book somewhere with a list of all "official" companies.

Oct 4, 2001, 5:48pm

Congrats Brant, well said:))

Moria


[View Quote]

Oct 31, 2001, 7:34pm

Well, Personally I think that to a world owner whos paying for their
world, to have a message in there from AW telling them to go to another
world is free advertising and an attempt to remove people from worlds that
are paid for.

Normally for people to advertise in my world, there is a charge, whether
thats reciprocal advertising or being commercial a flat fee. I personally
object to having all the people coming into my world that I have paid for,
being told to go to another world before I can even get a message of my own
on their screen.

If however, you are prepared to offer me similar advertising ability in all
the AWCOM worlds for my worlds on a 24/7 basis for as long as you are
attempting to hijack people from my worlds to yours, or extend my license by
as many days as you run this advertising as payment for running advertising
in my world, then perhaps I wouldnt be so mad about forced advertising in my
worlds.

If you like to look at it another way.. I object to SPAM advertising in my
world by AWCOM.

Good enough reasons?

Moria


[View Quote]

Nov 1, 2001, 4:15am

Greetings all:)

To follow into a new post from a previous thread, and I believe its worthy
of a new post, lets look at the whole issue of the Universe server message
and its use/abuse.

Lets look at the feature vote on blocking telegrams.. quoted from AWCOM's
own pages...

This feature refers to the ability to control who can and who cannot send
you telegrams. Currently, any citizen can send you a telegram, as many times
as they like, whether you want to receive them or not. Oddly, some people
find this annoying. :)

well what is the universe server message, other than a broadband telegram,
which AWCOM themselves agree can be annoying, and this way you dont even
have the ability to delete it without reading it??

The main difference here is that we have selective telegrams from only one
user direct to the screens of EVERY user, on multiple occaisions.

When you buy a world license, its to allow you to build a world within that
universe.. it allows you to set an ambiance and feel for the world by
object, by avatar, by web page, by world log in message.

NOW however, it also allows that to be blown away before the world even
loads by some trite message spammed into your world pointing people to
another website external to the world, or worse asking them to visit another
world.

What is the difference between that and say AWCOM force loading a web page
into the browser BEFORE your worlds web page has loaded.

Why would I pay for a world that I have no control over?

The world server pages say :--

In addition, as a World Server owner you will be able to customize many
aspects of your world like lighting, fog, backdrops, avatars, objects, and
much more. You will also have full control over user functions like
building, public speaking, and who may visit your world.

Well actually now I dont. I have no ability to block advertsing or visits
to my visitors from AWCOM sending every person a message when they enter.

I dont have the ability to put a bot in AW ground zero, or an AW bingo world
and whisper to every entrant.. hey visit my world for technical support,
or hi, why dont you contact me if you wish to buy your own world.. so why
should AWCOM reserve the right to do similar to my world thats paid for and
helping to support them.

I have no problem with emergency messages such as .. we have a problem,
all the worlds will be coming down for 5 minutes in 10 minutes time please
log out.

But I have a serious problem with.... Visit these pages for the latest
features, or Visit our new world, or why not buy your own world, or any
other similar advertising message that could be run just as easilly by a
board in the standard arrival worlds.

If someones already world hopping, they either know about the help pages and
latest feature pages, or they dont need to know about them. If they have a
problem in my world.. I will tell them and if needed will send them to the
help pages, I DONT want advertising crud splattered on everyones screen when
they enter my world, and telling people to drop out of my website into
awcoms website in my world is advertising, and destroying whatever ambiance
I am trying to establish in my world.

I firmly believe the use this has been put to demonstrates why a worldowner
should have the right on the world options screen to BLOCK the universe
server message if they wish to prevent the abuse that has already been shown
in the use of this message.

As an aside, this abuse of the universe server message has to be the best
reason ever to show why giving people the ability to mass telegram would
probably be the MOST hated feature ever developed, where it to happen.

Yours sincerely

Moria.

Dec 6, 2001, 6:48am

An scr is just a renamed exe designed to operate in the windows root
directory. The program can be made to do anything, including anything
available in the windows api.

Play music, change file, examine your hard drive, close down windows
anything.

Thats why most virus checkers and zone alarm will auto rename and
quarantine and .scr file before it gets into your system because they
can also autorun.

Moria




[View Quote] >They can do a lot... I know ive made a few myself.. But scr files are
>limited to what they can do by windows... they cant edit vitial infomation
>or shutdown computers
>

Jan 18, 2002, 10:03pm

Greetings:)

>hmm, anti-hacking law in the uk? lol not that it does much,especially since
>even the prisioners go on strike about "bad jail conditions" :).
>
> SWE
>hey, im only 15 :)
>www.emptyco.com

agreed this has been the case up til now, but late last year,
hacking was reclassified and was moved from a criminal bill in the uk
which was of little use, into a subsection of the anti terrorism act
2000.

the new section was added stating...

Action falls within this subsection if it is designed to interfere
with or disrupt an electronic system.

Because it is now part of the terrorism laws of the UK, it encompases
a lot more than it used to.

including :-

a) action taken by a resident of the UK but occuring outside the UK.

b) to any person or to property wherever situated,

c) to the public of a country other than the United Kingdom

d) to any government of the United Kingdom, of a Part of the United
Kingdom or of a country other than the United Kingdom.


Because it falls under the terrorist act, it now includes arrest
without warrant, unlimited search of possesions and unlimited search
of persons, purely on suspision.

With regards to overseas, it includes any offence in any country which
if commited in the UK would fall into this section of the law.

It also allows for extradition of any citizen convicted under the act
to the country in which they comitted the offence. .

It is also now possible, under this Bill for a US company to prosecute
a UK citizen upon application to the UK courts either under UK law, or
by extradition to the US and then under US laws.

Maximum sentence on inditement under UK law is 14 years and fines,

The minimum age limit for this because it is now classified as
terrorism is 14 years.

No-one has yet been prosecuted under this new act, but some are
pending.

Moria

Feb 12, 2002, 5:22am

Greetings:)

of course, decompiling and extracting the BSP of the delivered Quake
files is against the user agreement that you accepted and a no no..
but, for stuff that you have written and perhaps lost the source for,
and you wish to extract the BSP from, you may try

http://www.u-238.net/u238/downloads/mapmaking/winbspc12.zip

I seem to remember (been a long time now) that this was what I used to
recover some home built maps:)

I don't think that works with Q3, but I may be wrong.

Hope this helps

Moria



On 9 Feb 2002 21:31:43 -0500, "johnny b" <uniquect at optonline.net>
[View Quote] >Hey People :O)
>
>ok.... here's a good one..... WAY off topic ;O)
>anyone out there do any map building for the Quake series of games ?? What
>i'm wondering is, is there an EASY way to extract the textures and the .MAP
>file from the .BSP file ?? I've been toying with the stuff lately and none
>of the programs I've come across have been able to... Granted, I'm
>certainly no expert on this stuff, but it looks like fun and I wanna play,
>but I'm too dumb still ;O)
>
>Any help would be wonderful..... thanks :O)
>JB
>
>

Feb 8, 2001, 5:57pm

Greetings lara, long time no speak :)

sorry but I disagree.

Its so easy now to use the word censorship as a veiled threat, along with
moderated etc etc, and sure many will scream civil liberties etc etc.. but
in a newsgroup there are similarities to real life, even if people believe
that because its on the net and theres no personal presence they are immune
to real world realities.

If someone walked up to a kid in the street (lets say a 12 year old exchange
student) and said hey f**kwit, learn to speak english before you open your
mouth a**h**e... then that person would likely be looking at a court
appearance, or a smack in the mouth depending on who heard them. Well its
happened to people in this newsgroup, its immature, bigoted, stupid and
unneeded, and anyone operating at that level should be restrained for the
benefit of the community.

If someone says in the newsgroup.. suck filter f**kwit its the equivalent
of verbally walking up and hitting someone. In real life.. possible court
appearance or smack in the mouth back depending on who said to.

Currently this newsgroup is censored and moderated, its moderated by eep,
who if you dont agree with him, you get personal attacks ad infinitum until
you leave.

Why do you think most long term users dont post here anymore??

Why do you think AWCI personnel stopped posting in here??

Everyone puts up with the distorted reality of a person whos only object is
verbal terrorism in a war they have decided to take to everyone else.. its
little short of cyber terrorism.

Like any terrorist with a real or imagined war to fight, the casualties are
the innocent, and those who have no real interest.. they have two
choices... accept the fact by implication and just cringe when it happens,
and hope it doesn't happen to them, or make a stand, and until people make a
stand it will continue.

This is a community, and needs some form of control. Currently that control
is provided by eep, and that is more wrong than factor asking politely for
what any normal person has a right to expect.

I agree that from time to time eep makes a good point, but then so do many
serious repeat offenders convicted of real world crime and locked up:)

The fact that someones opinion is valid, invalid or whatever is no cause for
removal from a community, either in real life by conviction, or in a
newsgroup by banning, but when someone does not have the ability to act in
a manner acceptable to common decency, or is bigoted, racist or violent,
physically or verbally, then censorship has no part in the decision, it is
protection of the community.

Before we shout censorship, lets look at the censorship that exists here
already.

Moria


[View Quote]

Feb 8, 2001, 7:57pm

Greets goober:)

goody we can have a discussion without swearing at each other:))

> My turn to add my two cents.rwx in here:
>
> Sorry, Moria, Facter, et al, but there is no way I can agree with
> anything you've said. There is a SIGNIFICANT difference between personal
> censorship (i.e. filtering, ignoring posts, etc) and full-blown
> censorship. (banning from NGs, etc) What you are proposing is the
> latter: Complete censorship of Eep simply because his statements
> offended you.


They offend me because they are racist and biggoted, I dont care whether I
believe what he says or not or if we can have a rational discussion that
doesnt degenerate into name calling. What I am saying is that anyone who is
of this nature should expect to deal with the repercussions of their acts,
and banning someone for what is a criminal offence in some countries is not
censorship:)

In actual fact, censorship would be moderating the newsgroup and then
forwarding the post with any objectionable words taken out, or not
forwarding the post at all.. banning is not censorship, it is withdrawal of
privalege.

>
> Why do you think Eep does this sort of thing in the newsgroups? Why do
> you think he prefers to make personal attacks in the newsgroups as
> opposed to one-on-one in email or tgrams? Attention, plain and simple.

as I said, a version of terrorism. Your deffinition is quite accurate.

> He wants to make himself appear bigger and badder than the "incompetent
> twits" around him. If you filter him, effectively ignoring him, he will
> stop his pointless banter because it won't have any effect. (I've seen
> it happen many times) Personal censorship, individual censorship, is the
> answer, not outright banning.

Actually what I read here is that under your defenitions (which I contest
earlier in my post) its okay for an individual to censor anyone, but not a
group to group censor? But as I have said, banning is not censorship..
moderation may be classed as such by my reading of the meaning of the word.

If you are to ban Eep for insulting you,
> what's next? Banning people who speak ill of Rick & JP? Banning people
> for disliking an AWCI policy? Where do you draw the line?

I would personally remove the privelage (not censor) anyone who acted in the
same way, ie who came into the newsgroup as blatantly violent, racist or
biggoted, whether they were AWCI staff or a user.. makes no difference to
me who it is or what the subject under discussion is.

>
> Were Eep's attacks unwarranted? Yes, indeed they were.

Good we agree here:)


But it was
> because you chose to respond to his taunts that caused him to continue.
> If you hadn't replied to him directly and simply brushed him off (or
> filtered him outright) he would've stopped and this thread (among
> others) wouldn't be nearly as long as it is now.

He would only have stopped the thread when he had passed his insults and
people had given up so he could say I have won. Standard terrorist
tactics.. doesnt matter whether right or wrong as long as the last say goes
his way.

Therefore, you are also
> partly to blame for all this by unconsciously egging him on. (It takes
> two to tango, after all) If you had filtered him in the first place,
> none of this would've happened.
>

Actually here I agree, it should have been dealt with 4 or more years ago
when this started by banning him permanently, but that seemed harsh and
still does. I personally wont censor anyone, I have no right to so I wont
add him to a filter, but I have no problem in seeing his privaleges removed,
as I have no problem in seeing someone who commits a crime or similar in
real life serving time for it.

> And this is why the newsgroup format is *not* like real life. In real
> life, you can't click a button and make the person who attacked you
> disappear from your life. Here, you can, and that's the beauty of the
> whole system. Saying that these newsgroups are censored by Eep is
> preposterous... He can only affect you if you *let* him affect you.
>

Why should he be allowed to? you have already said the only way to stop him
is to back off, whether we are right or wrong.. thats not democracy, or
needed, thats bowing to usurped power and means he holds the power to
prevent discussion which is censorship by abstination.


> So Facter, I implore you to reconsider this proposal and let Eep stay.
> Those of us who've been here for quite sometime (myself included) have
> learned how to deal with him, and so can you.

Yep, bow under to his pressure and personally censor.. why do you feel you
have to do that?

However, if you choose to
> ban Eep from these newsgroups simply because you are unwilling to take
> any *personal* action, then I'm afraid I have no recourse but to leave
> the newsgroups as well.

Thats your choice, and I am sure we'll be sorry to see you go, but if you
feel that you have to make a personal stand against this, then its still a
free country for you to do so. Many of us took that decision years ago
when all this started by leaving the newsgroup, which again was wrong, it
was abstaining and turning the other way. In a way you could say guilty by
complacency:)

For though I may dislike Eep, I dislike
> censorship even more, and I won't be party to a so-called "community"
> that shuts out certain people simply because they rub you the wrong way.
>

Finally its not censorship, its removal of privalege, and being part of a
community means respecting the other community members and their views. You
dont have to agree with them, but you also dont need to resort to bigoted,
racist and violent behaviour if they disagree with you. Why should it
always be everyone else that backs off? :)

If you want a community, it should be that all members can get a fair say,
whether right or wrong, without being too scared to post because they think
they will get verbally assaulted if they dont agree with one person. That
is a community, not a group ruled in terror by the school playground
bully:))


Moria



> --
> Robert "Goober King" Rodehorst
> Censorship is the root of all ignorance
> rar1 at acsu.buffalo.edu

Feb 8, 2001, 8:33pm

Greets eep,

Damn, this is getting long, but I hope remaining civil:)



<snip for the sake of download size>

eep,
until
>
> How am I censoring? I'm not deleting posts or removing the ability for
some people to post here, Moria. I'm simply speaking (typing) my opinion
about how people act, like you are now.

OK so sue me, but I believe you are censoring people by intimidating them
to not post by resorting to name calling, and racist/bigotted attidudes. As
you say my opinion, after all thats all anyone can post:) Yes you can say
that is a weakness on their part perhaps, but the last I looked it didnt say
you had to be a strong thick skined individual to post here, and all should
be respected for their beliefs and ideas, even if we dont agree with them.
But not agreeing with them is no reason to resort to attacking them in any
way.

> But you don't see me all going off in a big tif and whining about how I
want apologies from all the people who have insulted me over the years, do
you?

Not demanding apologies no, you usually get to the point in the second post
where you call them newbie or tell them to suck filter f**kwit and ignore
what they are saying, like I admit in some cases they ignore your points as
well:)

After all, to me you're a newbie, but I would never use that as a statement
to try and put you down, which you do seem to have a fondness for doing:)

>Nope. Why? Because I can take it.

Then prove it.. I know you can, stop resorting to name calling and put
downs and either discuss and accept that some people don't agree with you,
or if you dont think they are worth it, just don't post :)

> Facter obviously can't; he obviously lives in a happy perfect little box
where all the people around him throw flower petals at his feet and kiss up
to him. Sorry, but the real world don't work that way.

Nor does it work for everyone to accept your box and throw petals at your
feet:)


> Most people don't like off-line as they do on-line--this includes me, but
it also includes all the idiotic kids who post about their lame
"organizations"/groups/gangs/clicques/whatever else they're trying to do to
find identity; newbies who obnoxiously quote entire threads and sigs when
replying, or who repeatedly post in HTML (combined with the former can make
for some big message sizes), or who attach files; etc, etc, etc.

Hey, I agree, theres always problems, but it can be dealt with by
discussion, and discussion is two sided. Resorting to name calling etc etc
is not discussion, its the old I'm right your wrong if you cant accept that
F off.... and as everyone says about your posts, if you dont like them and
censorship is your thing. filter them and cut the thread short:)

>
>
> Because AW died LONG ago and most users moved on to bigger and better
things.
>

Not true:) AW is still very much alive, if it wasnt you wouldnt be here,
its only cause you have an audience you remain. If it had died you wouldnt
be posting, youd find somewhere else to go:) You being here is proof it
hasn't died:)

>
> Because they can't face the truth or questions about their actions, the
company, and AW. Just look at how Facter is taking it...it's quite pathetic.
>

Nope, they have better things to do that be insulted all the time. Most
people who have a common decency approach have no problem talking to the
company.. but at the end of the day when you start posts with hey you
incompetant f**k did you know that you cant program?? then you'll tend to
be ignored.

<another snip for download saving>


many
>
> Oh oh, now I'm analgous to a "serious repeat offender convicted of real
world crime and locked up". That's classic, Moria. I suppose I'll next be
likened to, oh, perhaps Satan or Hitler? Zeig heil! <stomp> Give me a
fucking break.
>

Eep, I didn't mean to make that analogy that seriously (actually on
rereading it, I accept I did but it wasnt intended as seriously as you
interpreted it), but if you push me down that road I could so much more
easily:) Don't forget, many famous names started in terrorism, of one sort
or another, and made a name for themselves by racist or biggoted attitudes.
At the end of the day they were famous, but for all the wrong reasons, and
they never won:) Your stated aim is to improve AW by whatever means.. I
can't disagree with the improve AW bit, but there are other ways, dont get
remembered for the wrong reasons:))


for
in
is
>
> What community?
>

The community that exists and you prove exists by being here attacking it..
being here is not the problem, constantly attacking anyone who wants to be
part of a community is a big problem:)

here
>
> Yes, by Facter...
>

no not by Facter, by your interpretation of the online school playground
Bully:)



Moria

Feb 8, 2001, 8:50pm

Hiya:))

whoopee a discussion :))



>
> Disagreement? That's ok. Hey, after all it's an ng. :) I understand
many of your points, but mainly would take a different tack on this one:
>
are
happens,
make a
>
> The particular *kind* of stand to make is the important thing, I think.
If people feel strongly enough that a person's comments to others are too
rude, too ugly, too "anything", then those people can always do just what
you said - ignore it or speak up about it. If they are willing to speak up
about it, preferably it's by pointing out publically, in the newsgroup
thread, that the attack was unwarranted. Do I do that? No. I usually just
read on; so, yes, I'm one who simply cringes with a "sheesh, why in the
world doesn't he choose to deal with people in a polite, constructive
manner".
>

Hey sorry, wasnt trying to point fingers:) and yes for over 4 years, I have
been the same. Just got on with AW and ignored, but who knows now:)


> I have seen many posters; however, speak up and defend people that Eep
attacked unjustifiably.

This is my whole point in a way I guess, it shouldn't have to be up to
other people to jump in and defend others, people should be allowed to
state their views without fear of being verbally assaulted. After all, we
dont ever know who is on the end of the post, it could be some really sweet
little kid who loves aw and the people they have found. One post like that
could seriously hurt them, and they will get that post before they can apply
a filter.

After 4 years of this behaviour, I think its obvious that the only thing
that will protect the community is recourse to direct banning, which isn't
censorship (in my book anyway), its removal of privalege which is , also in
my book, a completely different thing:)

> If that brings on a flame pointed toward the defender, that person is
probably confident enough to deal with it however they wish. The rest can do
what we always do if it deteriorates into a flame war - skip it or read it.
Unlike on the real life street where we have no control over turning off the
swearing *while it is happening* (unless we can handle it ourselves or help
arrives), we do have the ability to immediately filter or start skipping or
start speaking out against any poster in the ng who offends us.


I agree with you here, I just don't think they should have to resort to
that:)


>
> You asked,
>
> Probably for a lot of reasons. For some, Eep. For others, probably any
number of other reasons. The first big drop off that I noticed in posts
from long term users was back during the time when these newsgroups were
formally moderated.

Agreed, and as I said in another post, I believe moderation is censorship..
banning is removal of privalege.. I dont agree with moderation, but I do
agree with banning when its justifiable, as in this case I personally think
it is, but hey thats my opinion, no-one elses, and I quite expect others to
disagree with me here:))

Moria

Feb 8, 2001, 9:08pm

Greets wing:)

okay again discussion time:))


> Amen. AWCI's yearly $20 contributions and testing services from me are
> likely to end if global censorship of intelligent people for "offensive"
> comments becomes a common occurance. If one or two people get nailed for
> being impolite or rude, whos to say I'm not next? Censorship, once started
> will always go out of control.

okay, can I ask you in that case whether you are in support of racism or
biggotism? To some thats just offensive, but to others its treated as
criminal:) You see it all depends on your viewpoint, and bearing in mind
this is both international, and multi-race, should not everyone have the
common courtesy to appreciate that?

Heck, I have no problem in discussion, I have no problem in someone telling
me they disagree, but I have a serious problem in someone telling me to
shut up cause I can't speak german when I've tried to the best of my ability
and ignored my point and just attacked me for typing wrongly :)

Movies now get R ratings for having topless
> men (Seems like it anyway). On radio, you can't say "shit" without a fine
> being pried from you station's wallet. Online, censorship is still few and
> far between. However, it's increasing in frequency by the minute. Any
> company that practices censorship for somthing that users could have done
> (GZs of worlds and such where there is a heavy concentration of people
being
> policed by PKs is almost too much) simply doesn't deserve my money. I will
> NOT fund programs that slowly crack down on my rights as an American along
> with the rest of the world's people.

How about if one persons view is cracking down on the rights of many others?
Not by their view, but by the way it is put forward. Who draws the line,
and what is best for the common good. You don't want your rights taken away
by censorship and you would feel strongly enough to not be a citizen..
that's excellent, good for you, but what if you felt that someone was
forcing you to leave by threats and attitude.. wouldn't you feel they were
censoring you or worse?? Well thats what some people feel on recieving one
of these replies from eep.

Not everyones as strong as you, or from the same country, or with the same
laws and customs, why should any one person take away the rights to enjoy
aw from others?? Discussion doesnt take away peoples enjoyment, personal
attacks do.

By your defenition you agree this is bad, but you don't want to take a
decision to end it:)

Hey thats okay, we all have different views, but what I would say, and its
not just in this case here, although it seems to have brought it to the
table, is that everyone is prepared to say hell censorship is bad, mustn't
happen, takes away people rights, but when peoples rights are taken away by
other methods they are happy to say.. woooo thats okay as long as we dont
use censorship:)


If one company adopts censorship
> practices, others will follow suit. Eventually, the world will become a
> place where nobody can have an opinion, speak their mind or even think
their
> own thoughts for fear of being politically incorrect, being gently
arrested
> by one white police officer and one black police officer, taken to a mixed
> male/female prison and executed in the most sterile and painless way as
> possible.
>

But (and I had to smile here) if theres nothing thats offensive or requires
someone to be arrested (censored), why would we have cops at all, and we
most certainly wont need to execute anyone:) surely your argument backfires
at this most crucial point cause none of that will be needed.:)

Moria

Feb 8, 2001, 9:30pm

Greets:)

[View Quote]
Turning round and saying hey learn english f**kwit to a person born in a
non english speaking country is a racist remark. Its the same as using
certain words to describe a coloured person because of their colour. English
is not a world standard, nor is American, nor is it an Internet standard,
there are more newsgroups and web pages in non-english than in English.
Denegration (putting down or insulting) of any person due to their colour,
home culture, home language or home beliefs because of that same colour,
culture, language or beliefs is racism as defined in the courts. Gets a bit
tricky if they were born in a country and now live in another, but it
usually refers back to country of birth.


Moria

Feb 8, 2001, 10:12pm

Greets eep:)

Ive cut out all the bits you didnt reply to, am trying to get these posts
back to a manageable size:)

whether I
who is
acts,
not
withdrawal of
>
> Ah but it's NOT a criminal offense in the US, which is where AWCI is
located and of which I am a citizen.

Racism and biggotism is not a criminal offence in the USA? you do surprise
me:) Is it a civil offence then??

continue.
goes
>
> All Facter had to do was answer my question in my email to him instead of
giving me the typica AWCI brushoff... <shrug>

Hey I am not saying you were right or Facter was right, what I am saying is
that whatever you felt, you could have done it without degenerating to
flames and name calling.. you could have discussed. If you took the
blinkers off, and stopped assuming that everyone who is connected with AW or
has been is out to get you, then that paranoid resort to flaming may take a
little more to ignite:)


ago
wont
removed,
>
> You keep interchangeably using "privilege" (note correct spelling)

correction noted, thank you:)

>and "ban". Taking away my "privilege" (right, more like it since I'm an AW
citizen and citizens have the RIGHT to post in these newsgroups--PERIOD) IS
banning me from posting. Duh.

No citizens have the privilege (see I learned) to post here, the AW pages
say that to post to these newsgroups you must be a citizen.. it doesnt say
that every citizen has the right to post to them. For someone as keen on
semantics as you, I would have thought you would have picked up on that
one:)


> No discussion is prevented since I am not taking away people's ability to
post. If anything, it's about self-esteem. Many people I flame have it
coming, which is why they eventually shut up and move on.

This is where we primarily disagree:)) You believe (I think) that its up
to peoples own self esteem as to whether they post or not, please correct me
if I am wrong, whereas I say I agree with that in principle, but I don't
believe anyone has the right to belittle that self esteem deliberately by
using offensive language and deliberate belittling remarks:)

>
>
> Lose the monarchness about this, Moria; it's not about power but staying
on-topic. A LOT of idiots I flame are because they post off-topic or act
incompetent. Don't act like a twit and I won't flame you; act like a twit
and I WILL flame you--it's that simple. Don't like it? Filter me. It's still
that simple.

Hey don't get me wrong, I agree that staying on topic, and acting
incompetent is annoying, but why flame, why not ignore?

Theres flame and flame, and usually the person who flames first is flaming
because they have no rational ability to discuss, which I know is not true
in your case:)


>
> Funny as you're the first person to mention the "mass exodus" because of
me, when I've read numerous discussions about how it was actually AWCI's
ineptness in dealing with AW's users that caused people to leave. Might want
to get your facts straight, Moria.

Don't worry eep, all my facts are straight:) It's just in my case they are
not always remembered in a way to back up my own argument:))

Theres at least one other poster here from that period whos mentioned it
too, and along with another reason which was moderation of the newsgroup,
and we all know why it had to be moderated don't we:)) In fact, this is
very similar to what happened then:))

>
say,
think
That
>
> There you go again with more analogies. Here's one of my own I'm sure
you've heard of before: AWCI is Big Brother. AWCI is a dictator.

Yep good analogies, have no problem with those :))

> Wee...aren't analogies fun? If some people are too "scared" to post here
simply because of how *I* post, then their self-esteems are so low their
posts probably wouldn't have much useful content anyway.

Thats a huge generalisation and its your opinion.. nothing wrong with that,
but in that case, if you dont want to hear them because they are beneath you
in your opinion filter them, dont insult them. Posting a flame doesnt
increase your self esteem (I hope) all it does is bully the person, hence
my analogy.

>Regardless, if you want to play cute little social politeness mind games,
go somewhere else. I didn't come to these newsgroups for lessons in social
etiquette but to get information and to discuss AW issues.

Discuss and flame are two mutually exclusive options. By all means discuss,
just dont assume that anyone who disagrees with you is wrong. They may be
wrong in your opinion, but your opinion is all you can give, you can't
enforce your opinion on others, certainly not by flaming them, if you do
its you who appears weak, to me at any rate:)

> Not everyone is a social butterfly who kisses up to everyone to get their
support and/or acceptance. Not everyone has such a low self-esteem. Not
everyone needs such external gratification. In short, Moria, Facter, and
anyone else, not everyone is like you. Now get over it.

I have nothing to get over, I am just stating my opinion, and it is a
personal opinion, no need to bring Facter back into this:)

I believe, and I said it in the post before you could be very good for AW,
you have some good points and great ideas, but your manner of approach will
negate all of the good and drive it underground and people onto the
defensive.

You didnt come here for social ettiquette, I agree, it would be presumptious
of me to try and teach it to you.. you have to live with what youve got,
but don't blame others if thats lacking:)) Live with it and get over it:)))


Moria

Feb 8, 2001, 11:07pm

Greets eep:)
>
> Shah, you want greets but are in the process of getting me banned from the
newsgroups? Give me a fucking break, Moria.
>

Have I voted?? I think not:) I have actually posted I think you have some
deserving comments to make and should make them properly:) I may vote, I
may not, I see some interesting names on the voting list that have suddenly
reappeared. Quite a coincidence that may tip me one way or the other:))


them
As
say
say
should
them.
any
>
> You need to look up the word "censor" in the dictionary, Moria. I'm not
censoring at all. Just because my skin may be thicker than most people's
hardly constitutes me as censoring others simply because I can take more
abuse. You have a distorted view of censorship if you believe that.

I have looked it up and thats why I say monitoring is censorship, banning
is removal of privs.

I didnt say you were censoring because you could take more abuse, I said you
were, in my opinion, censoring people by intimidation, thats a very
different thing.

Using the excuse its censorship is really a weak one, when its a guaranteed
mustnt use word, trouble is so much gets linked into censorship that isnt,
like this case:)

ignore
as
>
> Then what's the problem? Some people deal with people they don't like by
ignoring them, others filter, I reply with attacks. So the fuck what. Be
glad I'm not hunting you all down and killing you...

who cares if you are? certainly not me:) but why would you want to,
because they disagree with you??


statement
doing:)
you,
>
> Uh, you must not read my posts very carefully or you would see that, at
times between the insults, I am trying to understand the person I'm
insulting.

You disguise it very very well:)

> With Facter, for example, I gave him numerous chances to simply explain
why the newsgroups were truly taken down. He didn't catch on. Only after
continually insulting him and dragging it out into this long thread did the
reason finally come out of his stubborn ass--and it's still kind of vague,
but enough to shut me up about bugging him about it. But, no, he wanted to
play the runaround game instead and now get ME banned from the newsgroups
because of HIS incompetence--that's rich.

Again your view, perhaps not everyone agrees with you, there was certainly
no need to start name calling, unless that was the only option, which it
wasnt. If you put people on the defensive its always harder to get them to
talk. The relative value of incompetance is very subjective at any time.

>
box
up
your
>
> If asking for a SIMPLE explanation about something is asking to be
worshipped, you have another severe distorted understanding, Moria.
>

I lost the relevance for this part, we went from boxes back to Facter again
and introduced the idea of worship, who was worshiping who and why?


here,
wouldnt
>
> GEE YOU'RE QUICK SPORT. This doesn't even deserve any more of a response
from me.

Good so we agree, the community lives on:)

>
the
pathetic.
to
>
> Then AWCI could simply filter me in THEIR newsreaders. But, no, instead
they would rather simply not deal with their users (I'm hardly the only one
who complains about AWCI's ineptness--it's being exampled right now from you
and Facter).

nope you're assuming again and your facts are wrong again:) Maybe they cant
deal with you, maybe they dont want to, but you shouldnt assume its others
as well as you. And just as an aside, I'm not AWCI so you dont get any
bonus points for attacking me, its not relevant to AWCI whether you do or
not:)

it..
be
>
> I attack those who don't add to the community in any meaningful way to me.
<shrug>

then ignore them, perhaps they are more relevant to others than you are, its
not your decision who says what, thats censorship, remember??


playground
>
> And your abuse of smileys? Wee...

Yeah I know, I am registered with the smiley abuse society. :)))


Moria

Feb 8, 2001, 11:12pm

Greets:)

Websters dictionary

3 a : the act, practice, or an instance of discriminating categorically
rather than individually b : prejudiced or prejudicial outlook, action, or
treatment <racial discrimination>

> Uh, I SERIOUSLY doubt that. Show me proof.
>
> If someone is going to attempt to use a language they don't know very well
to communicate with, the had better learn it better.

There is no requirement for them to learn it better, not even to avoid you
insulting them because of your prejudicial treatment of their use of
language.

>The people I usually insult (and usually after they have insulted me)
because of this is VERY few. You're just trying to find more reasons to ban
me.

Nope not voted yet as I said elsewhere, dont assume:)

Moria

Feb 8, 2001, 11:14pm

Greets:)


> JP nor Rick will even bother to answer a single telegram or email unless
it
> has the words "money" in the subject line, or if it's from someone who
gets
> an AWCI pay check. It's there company and if they want it to go down the
> shit hole like Worlds Inc. did, then be my guest and do so at your own
free
> will. I am just warning you.
>

actually, just for the record, Worlds inc went down the tubes because it
ran out of money, so youve got a bit of a self defeating argument there:)

Moria

Feb 8, 2001, 11:28pm

Greets eep:)

> Facter (and you) assume I am that paranoid, but I'm not. <shrug> Perhaps
you (AWCI) are doing things that WOULD make us (the users) paranoid?

sorry I'm not AWCI, its not a them and us, its a discussion between you and
I both users:))


pages
say
on
>
> Uh, and where does it say that citizens DON'T have a right to post here,
Moria? Gee, I would've thought you'd've picked up on that one...guess not.

Where does it say that you do??


> It hopefully bullies the idiot into not doing it in the future, which is
the POINT of my flame in the first place. Duh.

So you are trying to bully everyone that doesnt agree with you?? Thats
beneath you eep, you dont have to do that do you??


>
> Ah but they ARE wrong, relative to me. Wee...

or could it just possibly be you are wrong relative to them??


>
> Blah blah blah, yea, yea, heard/read it all before, but it's just not
true. <shrug>

How do you know, yyou've never tried it:))

> I think I'll just filter YOU instead since you obviously can't stop
abusing smileys or know when to shut up. Buh-bye now, twit.

okay, I was hoping you still had points to discuss


Moria

Feb 8, 2001, 7:21pm

Greetings F.

I tried it and had to do a reformat to get rid of it..

what was wierd was it SEEMED to be working fine (I could talk, build etc),
but in fact it wasnt taking updates etc, so although you thought AW was
working fine, it was sometimes blocking retrievals of info from some servers
that had odd port settings. Also noticed that some people were unable to
talk to me, they were saying things but it was being blocked.

Often what I saw on screen as objects, posters, banners etc were old copies
that Zone Alarm had refused to update without reason, although I had no way
of knowing at the time.

Once I deleted it and reformatted, then all the worlds updated and it was
fine again.

Moria


[View Quote]

Feb 9, 2001, 4:24pm

This, of course from someone who's email address is from a company setting
up their own universe based on aw technology, with at least 3 basic spelling
mistakes on their homepage, and 5 links that don't work, and others which go
to page currently under construction:))

Moria


[View Quote]

Feb 11, 2001, 4:15pm

[View Quote] Assuming the log is accurate.. the other log from awteen has been shown to
be doctored to provide the resposes required with differences in what was
said, things said which were added and an eject log that shows the user
left, and wasnt ejected.. Therefore one can assume this one is as well, and
therefore the whole deal has no credebility and cannot be trusted and is
obviously purely designed to provoke.

Moria

Feb 11, 2001, 8:56am

[View Quote] <------huge snip of HTML bloat------->

I think its an important issue too, and since its been proved that at least
one of the enclosed logs was not true, theres no doubt the other was
modified as well.

Therefore, it would appear your friend is deliberately falsifying
information to try and prove a point, apart from their initial overly
antagonistic approach.

Prior to posting huge inflametory posts like this and trying to raise a
storm, I suggest you first confront your friend and ask him why it was
falsified. I submit that gay people, of either sex have enough trouble in
this world due to irrational responses from other people, that to have one
whos going around deliberately stirring up trouble and trying to provoke a
negative response is actually doing them more disservice than help.

The issue of how individuals treat gays is not helped this way, its
hindered.

Moria

Feb 11, 2001, 8:49pm

Troll alert

first you post someone elses changed logs claiming discrimination. then
despite your assurances of wanting to help minorities you show blatant
discrimination for a minority group with rehabber.. now your trying again.

You say you wont renew??

well dont let the door hit you on the way out.

Moria.



[View Quote]

Feb 11, 2001, 8:55pm

Don't assume,

its made up from the word ass, which you seem to be portraying quite nicely.

Moria

and PS why posted to worldbuilders as well, this is a community issue, not
worldbuilders


[View Quote]

Feb 11, 2001, 8:58pm

go read the story of the boy who cried wolf

and stop posting in HTML

Moria


[View Quote] The GK's stand for a single body that play God, which they are not good at
obviously.

Feb 22, 2001, 6:20pm

Okay your filtered


Moria

Feb 28, 2001, 6:06am

and a better case of discrimination, which was so vehemently argued against
in this very newsgroup I have never seen:)

but at least trekkerx wont be able to argue against discrimination in
future:))

Moria

[View Quote]

Mar 1, 2001, 7:11am

[View Quote] <snip>

Rick and JP STILL (after years of shoving this into their face) have a CLUE
about what to do with AW.

<snip>

finally support from eep:)))))


Moria

Mar 1, 2001, 10:03am

as eep constantly tells us, he doesn't mistype, just picks up others who do
:))

Moria


[View Quote] >
> Support? Looks like a mistype.
>

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