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Aug 4, 2003, 3:37pm

As I was looking through web server logs the other day to see who's visiting
my site, I happened to discover a browser agent string that contained the
following URL:

http://www.nameprotect.com/botinfo.html

I don't host any mp3's or attempt to advertise myself as another company, so
I'm not worried about being tagged for copyright violations, but it does
seem a little disconcerting. Now not only do we have to worry about humans
from organizations like the RIAA spying on us, we also have to worry about
bots that add up the words on a page and calculate a total. Imagine a bot
like this automatically issuing thousands of subponeas simply because
someone programmed it to recognize a company's name used a certain way on
webpages.

Another reason why copyright law is broken....

-Brant

Aug 22, 2003, 4:46pm

Has version 3.5 gone into alpha testing yet? You'll never get an answer
from AW, but I'd be willing to bet it has:

http://www.shoemakervillage.org/report/browsers.htm

That's a report for the time I was away on vacation for my site. Take a
look at the "most popular browsers" table and behold entry #34.

Comments?

Aug 22, 2003, 7:29pm

Hmmm - well, if they had posted a more meaningful page that points towards
the notes, posts like this one wouldn't be necessary.

If you go to http://www.activeworlds.com/help/beta.html, you'll find the
same old notes. If you go to http://www.activeworlds.com/help/aw35, you'll
get an error message. But after a few minutes I figured out that if you go
to http://www.activeworlds.com/help/aw35/beta.html, you'll get the right
page.

[View Quote]

Aug 28, 2003, 9:11pm

Tomorrow, I'll be moving 200 miles to a new apartment. As a result, all of
the services I offer (the Shoemaker Village website, AWTeen's bots -
including Demeter, the upgrade system) will be offline until Saturday or
Sunday.

If you're using any of the bots offered on the site, you'll get error
messages when attempting to run the programs. Simply press "Skip" and they
should function as normal.

I apologize for the inconvienience.

-Brant

Feb 11, 2001, 1:15am

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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charset="iso-8859-1"
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I run an av99 bot by XelaG at GZ continuously to host chess and =
tic-tac-toe games, which is also set to log chat in the case of =
complaints such as this one. Because the log file was over 10 megabyes, =
I spent nearly a half hour searching for the snippet of text below. =
This unaltered log includes whispers (designated by ">>" symbols) by the =
bot to others which I did not remove so as not to change the log in any =
way. In addition, I had been checking the ejection log of the world all =
morning because I was testing my Active Worlds Utility (see the bots =
newsgroup) by ejecting myself, and I did not once notice any ejection =
performed by Nornny. While I cannot attest to the validity of the =
AWGate incident, the author of the log obviously falsified Nornny's =
remarks in the AWTeen episode. Note that TrekkerX is not affiliated =
with AWTeen in any way. Times shown are in VRT.

------------

15:12:39 >> Chess Bot: - to TrekkerX - This game on BoardTwo is being =
played by (Whites) CommandoJoe vs (Blacks) virginpure69. Last move was =
number 3, next player: Blacks
15:12:40 >> Chess Bot: - to TrekkerX - This game on BoardTwo is being =
played by (Whites) CommandoJoe vs (Blacks) virginpure69. Last move was =
number 3, next player: Blacks
15:12:48 "boo": - to [Chess Bot] - clear board one
15:13:03 TrekkerX: //clear
15:13:03 >> Chess Bot: - to "boo" - This game on BoardOne is being =
played by (Whites) "bowfinger2" vs (Blacks) "hotboy". Last move was =
number 1, next player: Blacks
15:13:05 Nornny: ack, I think I'm lagging.
15:13:05 Nornny: oh wait, nm. :)
15:13:26 TrekkerX: someone play me tic-tack-toe
15:13:32 >> Chess Bot: - to "boo" - This game on BoardOne is being =
played by (Whites) "bowfinger2" vs (Blacks) "hotboy". Last move was =
number 1, next player: Blacks. This game on BoardOne is being played by =
(Whites) "bowfinger2" vs (Blacks) "hotboy". Last move was number 1, next =
player:=20
15:13:32 >> Chess Bot: - to "boo" - Blacks
15:13:35 "I love Craig" enters.
15:13:35 >> Chess Bot: - to "I love Craig" - Welcome to AWTeen, "I love =
Craig"! Come to the AWTeen Game Center South of GZ to play a game of =
chess or tic-tac-toe! More games will be added soon!
15:13:42 "I love Craig": hello
15:13:58 "I love Craig": are gay people allowed in this world or no?
15:14:00 TrekkerX: hehehhe
15:14:11 TrekkerX: yes unfortunaly
15:14:19 TrekkerX: goto theworld Gay for gays
15:14:23 "I love Craig": unfortunaley?
15:14:28 "I love Craig": why is being gay bad?
15:14:34 TrekkerX: lol no offence i dont like gays
15:14:36 "I love Craig": no I will stay here
15:14:44 TrekkerX: they do werd things to me
15:14:46 "I love Craig": well that is your problem
15:14:52 Nornny: who doesn't like gays?
15:14:53 "I love Craig": if you don't like them, then you leave
15:15:02 "I love Craig" exits.
15:15:02 TrekkerX: ok dont do anything wierd to me and u can do what u =
want
15:15:38 Nornny: god, how ignorant are you today, Trekker? ;) Just cuz =
you're a guy doesn't mean you're a hit-on target for gay guys (or =
straight girls). :)
15:15:51 TrekkerX: uhhhh
15:16:06 TrekkerX: hmmmm im always ignorent u shuld know that by now
15:16:25 Nornny: should've figured. :)
15:16:31 TrekkerX: lol
15:16:38 >> Chess Bot: - to "boo" - This game on BoardOne is being =
played by (Whites) "bowfinger2" vs (Blacks) "hotboy". Last move was =
number 1, next player: Blacks
15:16:53 >> Chess Bot: - to "boo" - This game on BoardTwo is being =
played by (Whites) CommandoJoe vs (Blacks) virginpure69. Last move was =
number 3, next player: Blacks

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I run an av99 bot by XelaG at GZ =
continuously to=20
host chess and tic-tac-toe games, which is also set to log chat in the =
case=20
of&nbsp;complaints such as this one.&nbsp; Because the log file was over =
10=20
megabyes, I spent nearly a half hour searching for the snippet of text=20
below.&nbsp; This unaltered log includes whispers (designated by =
"&gt;&gt;"=20
symbols) by the bot to others which I did not remove so as not to change =
the log=20
in any way.&nbsp; In addition, I had been checking the ejection log of =
the world=20
all morning because I was testing my Active Worlds Utility (see the bots =

newsgroup) by ejecting myself, and I did not once notice any ejection =
performed=20
by Nornny.&nbsp; While&nbsp;I cannot attest to the validity of the =
AWGate=20
incident, the author of the log obviously falsified Nornny's remarks in =
the=20
AWTeen episode.&nbsp; Note that TrekkerX is not affiliated with AWTeen =
in any=20
way.&nbsp; Times shown are in VRT.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>------------</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>15:12:39 &gt;&gt; Chess Bot: &nbsp;- to =
TrekkerX -=20
This game on BoardTwo is being played by (Whites) CommandoJoe vs =
(Blacks)=20
virginpure69. Last move was number 3, next player: Blacks<BR>15:12:40 =
&gt;&gt;=20
Chess Bot: &nbsp;- to TrekkerX - This game on BoardTwo is being played =
by=20
(Whites) CommandoJoe vs (Blacks) virginpure69. Last move was number 3, =
next=20
player: Blacks<BR>15:12:48 "boo": &nbsp;- to [Chess Bot] - clear board=20
one<BR>15:13:03 TrekkerX: &nbsp;//clear<BR>15:13:03 &gt;&gt; Chess Bot: =
&nbsp;-=20
to "boo" - This game on BoardOne is being played by (Whites) =
"bowfinger2" vs=20
(Blacks) "hotboy". Last move was number 1, next player: =
Blacks<BR>15:13:05=20
Nornny: &nbsp;ack, I think I'm lagging.<BR>15:13:05 Nornny: &nbsp;oh =
wait, nm.=20
:)<BR>15:13:26 TrekkerX: &nbsp;someone play me tic-tack-toe<BR>15:13:32 =
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Chess Bot: &nbsp;- to "boo" - This game on BoardOne is being played by =
(Whites)=20
"bowfinger2" vs (Blacks) "hotboy". Last move was number 1, next player: =
Blacks.=20
This game on BoardOne is being played by (Whites) "bowfinger2" vs =
(Blacks)=20
"hotboy". Last move was number 1, next player: <BR>15:13:32 &gt;&gt; =
Chess Bot:=20
&nbsp;- to "boo" - Blacks<BR>15:13:35&nbsp;"I love Craig" =
enters.<BR>15:13:35=20
&gt;&gt; Chess Bot: &nbsp;- to "I love Craig" - Welcome to AWTeen, "I =
love=20
Craig"!&nbsp; Come to the AWTeen Game Center South of GZ to play a game =
of chess=20
or tic-tac-toe!&nbsp; More games will be added soon!<BR>15:13:42 "I love =
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&nbsp;hello<BR>15:13:58 "I love Craig": &nbsp;are gay people allowed in =
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world or no?<BR>15:14:00 TrekkerX: &nbsp;hehehhe<BR>15:14:11 TrekkerX: =
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gays<BR>15:14:23=20
"I love Craig": &nbsp;unfortunaley?<BR>15:14:28 "I love Craig": =
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gays<BR>15:14:36 "I love Craig": &nbsp;no I will stay here<BR>15:14:44 =
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&nbsp;they do werd things to me<BR>15:14:46 "I love Craig": &nbsp;well =
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love Craig": &nbsp;if you don't like them, then you =
leave<BR>15:15:02&nbsp;"I=20
love Craig" exits.<BR>15:15:02 TrekkerX: &nbsp;ok dont do anything wierd =
to me=20
and u can do what u want<BR>15:15:38 Nornny: &nbsp;god, how ignorant are =
you=20
today, Trekker? ;) Just cuz you're a guy doesn't mean you're a hit-on =
target for=20
gay guys (or straight girls). :)<BR>15:15:51 TrekkerX: =
&nbsp;uhhhh<BR>15:16:06=20
TrekkerX: &nbsp;hmmmm im always ignorent u shuld know that by =
now<BR>15:16:25=20
Nornny: &nbsp;should've figured. :)<BR>15:16:31 TrekkerX: =
&nbsp;lol<BR>15:16:38=20
&gt;&gt; Chess Bot: &nbsp;- to "boo" - This game on BoardOne is being =
played by=20
(Whites) "bowfinger2" vs (Blacks) "hotboy". Last move was number 1, next =
player:=20
Blacks<BR>15:16:53 &gt;&gt; Chess Bot: &nbsp;- to "boo" - This game on =
BoardTwo=20
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move was=20
number 3, next player: Blacks</DIV></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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Feb 13, 2001, 10:35pm

AWTeen updated its objects before 3.1 was released to be light source
compatible, if that's what you're referring to. I'll upload a zip of them
for everyone sometime tonight.

Feb 14, 2001, 9:02pm

I have had that problem since 2.2, on three different systems. Has anyone
else encountered it?

Mar 1, 2001, 12:02am

I would like to invite the community to attend the AW SURVIVOR Challenge
II: Frozen Desert, the latest event sponsored by AWTeen. While the AWTeen
core has held many events in the past, the AW SURVIVOR Challenge is unique
both in its conception and in its scope.
Scheduled to kick off at 2PM VRT on Saturday, March 10, 2001, the
challenge will pit citizens against not only their worst enemies, but also
their most trusted friends. The premise of the game is simple: to survive
as long as you can. However, like the CBS television show, surviving to win
the grand prize isn't always as easy as it seems. Participants will have to
deal with convincing their tribe that they've got what it takes to stay in
the game, winning immunity challenges, and, worst of all, dealing with real
life problems so they can stay online to win the challenge! The Grand Prize
for the event is a free P-10 world with 5 users, along with runner-up prizes
such as a permanent block of billboards near Ground Zero for your personal
use, and even your specifying a 100-character advertisement to be added to
the immigration officer's message (displayed as many as 3500 times per day)
for three days (language and content - no for-profit messages - is subject
to approval by the core before posting).
Fun events are planned for all, including chess, paintball, tic-tac-toe,
trivia, the famous "wacky races" that were held at our Millennium Party,
scavenger hunts, and more. Although anyone can sign up to win the grand
prize, everyone, even spectators, can participate in most of the events just
for fun.
All of the contestants are separated into four tribes (the exact number
of tribes depends on the number of participants). Each tribe is assigned a
leader, who is responsible for making sure that tribe members are not idle
or away from their keyboards (disconnections, of course, are allowed up to
seven minutes per hour). After the opening ceremonies, tribes will split up
and begin to build their shelter on the picturesque SURVIVOR mountain, built
specifically for the competition by Kmissile583K and TheCheese, who have
labored over the build for the past four months. During this time,
contestants will forge alliances, participate in the building contest (that
will be held simultaneously for contestants), and prepare for immunity
challenges.
Every half hour, a challenge between tribes is held, and the winner of
the event (see above for some examples of events) is immune from being
removed by a tribal vote at the next Council. The process will repeat every
half hour until there are less than eight members left, at which time the
tribes will combine. Therefore, it is imperative for a team to win as many
immunity challenges as possible so their tribe's members can support them
after the merger.
Throughout the competition, a building contest will be held. The theme
is a winter hideaway, and the contest will be held adjacent to the challenge
property. Those who choose to participate in the building contest are
encouraged to take advantage of the new objects that AWTeen will be adding
to its registry shortly. In addition, they may use light sources in
conjunction with AWTeen's lighted walks and floors and 3.1 move and rotate
commands that are always enabled for all users.
The tribal leaders will judge the building contest prior to the final
tribal council meeting, when the participants who finished third through
ninth will return to decide the fate of the final two survivors.
Even though the event is sponsored by AWTeen's core, citizens and
tourists of all ages are invited to attend. The last SURVIVOR Challenge
(held in September, 2000) attracted a wide range of participants and
spectators, and the format of the game has been improved so as to make the
event more enjoyable the second time. (The previous challenge lasted for 7
hours and 15 minutes.) At the AWTeen Millennium party on December 30, 61
avatars were in attendance simultaneously, including AW celebrities such as
Mauz, XelaG, and Lucrezia Borgia. We need your help to beat this previous
record during the upcoming event.
Those who are interested in participating can visit the challenge's
website at http://yourdock.co.uk/awteen/survivor.html to sign up to be
eligible to win prizes. Even if you haven't signed up, come out on March 10
and join the fun as fellow citizens battle it out in a quest to become the
ultimate survivor!

Oct 17, 2001, 11:45am

Actually, I did that in AWTeen during the Cy Awards party. There were 105
people in the world at the time gathered in one place, and instead of making
Roland appear to join everyone, I made AW say:

Immigration Officer: Eep would like to join you. Type 'y' to accept this
request, or 'n' to reject it.

There were so many 'n' s that I couldn't count them all!

LOL,

-Brant

[View Quote]

Mar 4, 2001, 3:36pm

eep, it's the weekend. Roland just got back from his vacation on
Friday - most people don't work seven days a week.

[View Quote]

Mar 5, 2001, 10:39pm

I won't repeat the post I made below, because it's... below, so if
you're wondering what the challenge is about, look at my post from a
few days ago.

We now have 51 citizen signups as of the time of posting, and expect
somewhere around 70 before the signup process closes. With anywhere
between 50 and 100 (!) people expected to attend at a time, I am now
badly in need of additional helpers to prevent the event from turning
into pandemonium.

Anyone experienced with bots would be especially useful, as keeping
between 20 and 25 bots running perfectly at a time is a huge
challenge, and newbies' questions need to be answered. Experienced
builders would also be a plus (3.1 beta testers, anyone?), as we could
use judges for the building contest, which will emphasize 3.1
compatibility. Finally, and most importantly, we need at least six
people who would like to volunteer to be tribal leaders (to keep track
of your tribe and ensure fair play - see the first URL below).

A description of the event (at 2PM VRT on March 10, 2001) can be found
at http://yourdock.co.uk/awteen/survivor.html, and a list of events
(as well as more specific rules) can be found at
http://yourdock.co.uk/awteen/survevnt.html. Unfortunately, helpers
won't be able to sign up for the challenge - if you want to sign up,
you can do so on or before Tuesday at the first URL. Of course,
anyone can attend, even if you're not helping or participating.

Please reply to this post or send an email to
awteen at shoemakervillage.org if you're interested in helping make this
event a success.

Mar 13, 2001, 7:44pm

I've reported this bug to Roland several times, but this time the effects
have been more serious. Therefore, I thought I should post to the
newsgroups to see if anyone else has encountered this strange bug that has
shut down several of AWTeen's events. Below is a copy of the email I've
sent (again) to Roland.

---------------------------------

I reported a bug earlier (in late February) with lights that didn't seem to
refresh. In case you don't remember, the bug occurred when a lot of people
were gathered for a light show (about 35). The bots turned off the moving
and rotating lights, but the lights didn't disappear, apparently because the
objects weren't refershed correctly. Not only did this bug occur when there
were a lot of people in the scene, but also when objects were being changed
rapidly by the bots.

However, the bug seems to affect all objects, not only lights. At the AW
SURVIVOR Challenge II: Frozen Desert (AWTeen 1800s 1800e), between 60 and 70
people were gathered for a competition called wacky races. The event
involves trying to move along poles (with shifting, flying, and local
teleports disabled) to a finish line. The event had to be scrapped because
of a bug in the AW browser. Apparently, when all the people were gathered
there (some using 2.2), multiple duplicate fence objects had been made,
overlapping one another (most likely by accident.) Anyway, those with 3.1
were able to move through the un-refreshed fences and go onto the course,
while those with 2.2 saw the fences and weren't able to pass. My attempts
to delete the fences with 3.1 failed, but I went to another computer that
had 2.2 on it and it worked.

Furthermore, later in the same event, someone was making a tournament ladder
consisting of sign3.rwx's (which you can see at the above coordinates). I
was watching the creation of the signs for a while, until I noticed that
they were in disarray even though some others (who I have now determind to
be using 2.2) could see them clearly. It turns out that several of the
tic-tac-toe bots had been malfunctioning, issuing hundreds of
AW_OBJECT_CHANGE commands per second to the signs. After I corrected the
bot problem, however, the others who were present (again, about 50 people)
were unable to see the signs, and I had to cancel this event as well.
Before I canceled the event, however, I restarted the AW browser, and I
could see clearly; unfortunately, I didn't connect the others' not being
able to see the signs with a browser bug at the time.

Most of the 30 or so 3.1 users who were present can vouch that these three
bugs occurred.

I would appreciate your looking into this major bug, as future events cannot
be planned when these malfunctions will interfere. Thanks. If you require
more information, please reply.

My 3.1 system:

1.5 GHz Pentium IV Dell Dimension 3100 series
Geforce 2 (64MB video RAM) - latest drivers
256MB RAM
56.1 GB free hard drive space (/60GB)
Windows Millennium Edition

My 2.2 system:

400 MHz Dell Latitude LS (laptop) - Pentium III
No video card
128 MB RAM
4.1GB/10GB space free
Windows 98 (second edition)

Mar 14, 2001, 1:20am

Oops, I overestimated. There were six tic-tac-toe bots running in the area,
which all went haywire (I don't know whether that was intentional or a bug)
when people began clicking on the "Click for new game" signs. The script,
apparently, doesn't prevent others from clicking the reset signs after
someone clicks them the first time, and the bot doesn't switch back to
"Click to register" mode until after the bot resets however many times the
sign is clicked. For example, if I clicked the "Click for new game" sign
six times in succession, the board would reset six times before displaying
the "click to register" message. The bots, under observation, seem to take
about one to two seconds to reset the signs each time, meaning that there
could be anywhere between (9 (signs) * 6(boards) = 54 change commands per
second) to half that (if it were once every two seconds = 27 change commands
per second). In addition, several chess games were being held nearby,
issuing AW_OBJECT_ADD and AW_OBJECT_DELETE commands, adding to the
confusion.

I'm almost certain that the bug has to do with bots in the area changing
objects rapidly (not sure about the number of people, because I observed it
when there were only two people present). So far, every racing event I've
tried to hold with 3.1 has gone badly wrong, as they all involve bots that
issue AW_OBJECT_CHANGE commands that operate gates, switches, etc (which is
why I've had to scrap events I had planned for April until the bug is
resolved).

Not that this has anything to do with the AW malfunction, but I'll have to
try to find some time next month to fix up that tic-tac-toe script to repair
that bug.

-Brant

Mar 14, 2001, 6:08pm

Thanks for the info. However, I've never been able to figure out how to
display a simple window in C++, even though I'm experienced with DOS C++
programming, so the AW SDK wouldn't be of much help, unfortunately. The
main reason I'm hesitant to try again is that this is the third event that
I've had to cancel because of this bug, and I received a lot of greif over
the prizes for the events that didn't go as planned (people can get pretty
antagonistic when they're trying to win a free world - lol). Most of all,
however, I don't want Lucrezia or other AW staff receiving telegrams of any
more botched events that make the world's staff look incompetent. Maybe
we'll just hold a trivia competition or something that doesn't involve
objects until the bug is resolved.

You sound like you would be interested in helping plan events - I'm always
very busy and we could use some help anytime.

Mar 13, 2001, 9:44pm

Actually, this idea sounds like what Eep was suggesting in his
webpages (URL omitted because I don't agree with them, except for the
part about better testing). It would probably be better, though, for
AW to fix the bugs in its browser first before releasing something
like that.

Mar 14, 2001, 6:12pm

Actually, I'm very satisfied with the direction that AW is taking. I don't
think that AW was ever meant to be a three dimensional game. If people want
to play games, they can visit one of the others you listed on your website;
besides, AW would lose more visitors to these games than they would gain if
they took a gaming approach.

The real reason I don't agree with those pages, though, is that they make it
sound like AW employs thousands of programmers working sixty hours a week to
improve its software. Unfortunately, while that would be nice, it's simply
not true, and the implementation of all the features on Eep's pages would
take until 2010. Therefore, AW is doing the best job that it can with the
resources at its disposal.

Mar 14, 2001, 11:45pm

I hadn't said you claimed that AW had more than three programmers. My
point was that it would take years to implement all those features and
to take out all the bugs that develop (and are present currently) in
AW. You have a large section on better debugging, and I don't
disagree with that - why are you trying to convince me that AW needs
better testing?

My argument about gamelike features was that the most important thing
on AW's agenda should be the release of a software rendering engine,
not the development of these "gamelike" additions. The development of
a software renderer does seem to be the most important effort underway
at AW development right now, and that's why I agree with AW's current
direction. I would venture to say that a large majority of AW's
problems could be eliminated by allowing everyone to use one browser
(version 3.2). When AW released 3.0 and 3.1 without software
rendering and was forced to leave 2.2 functional, it created huge
incompatibility problems for itself, in addition to making most of the
newer building commands (move, rotate, and light) and SDK commands
obsolete (For example, the teleport command, which is completely
useless because one is never assured whether it will work properly or
not.)

I'm not trying to argue with you on the point of better testing - I
just believe that your expectations for game-like features are
somewhat unreasonable in the near future and should not be AW's top
priority.

Mar 15, 2001, 7:23pm

As for my experience with AW (this is irrelevent to the topic, but you
brought it up for some reason), I've been active in the community since July
1998, have won Cy Awards for programming, and am the current caretaker of
AWTeen.

If you haven't programmed, then you most likely don't know much about how
software works. In reality, just making a simple window display in Visual
C++ is a difficult undertaking. Therefore, you can probably imagine how
difficult it is to make an intuitive interface that is accessible to users
with many different levels of experience with computers. Even if you use a
language (such as Visual Basic) that allows a programmer to place controls
on a form easily, deciding exactly how features will be visible to the user
is still a difficult task, and it's hard for programmers to think as
non-programmers when designing an interface. Furthermore, every program
I've ever written has required a redesign of the interface as it evolved (my
AW Utility, for example), simply because it's impossible to predict the
future. AW's interface was most likely the best solution when it was first
developed. I doubt that Protagonist had the idea that there would be more
than 750 worlds in the AW Universe, for example, because programming for the
possibility would only have consumed extra bandwidth, and was not necessary
at the time. Much the same is true for other parts of the browser that you
feel need restructuring.

You contradict yourself in saying that AW should try to fix the bugs, and
then that AW should develop a better user interface. Using an example from
your webpages, implementing the avatars.dat file as part of the world
features would require yet another rewrite of some of AW's code. Doing so
would add further development time and create new bugs, even though the
current implementation of the avatars.dat file is perfectly functional.

Myself, I feel that AW's software is already losing some of its potential
value by having bugs that interfere with its uses, such as the recurring bot
event bug that I describe in the post below. I'm sure that I am not the
only person to experience this bug (60 other people witnessed it as well
during the events). Using this bug as an example, events draw large numbers
of people to AW and many continue to use the program after a big event, but
are not impressed when bugs interfere with the event or future events are
canceled (as I've had to do). Therefore, AW is losing its customers already
to bugs such as these, much more so than to its interface or poor initial
design.

I'm confused as to what your suggestion for AW's direction actually is.
First, you said that you disagreed with me (although it sounds like we
agree) on AW's need for better testing. In your response, however, you say
that, in addition to better testing, AW should have all or most of the
additions that you list on your webpages, including a new interface and a
rewriting of certain key portions of AW's software. It simply can't all be
accomplished at once.

You've confused me by moving so far off the original topic - that bugs
should be fixed before new features are implemented. It seems that we agree
on this statement.

What, then, are we arguing about?

Mar 15, 2001, 9:37pm

> You seem to have a problem with thinking outside the box, Brant. Some bugs
CAN be fixed by developing a better GUI.

Some bugs can, of course, but the vast majority of current bugs (such as the
recurring sound problems, for example) can't be fixed with a better GUI.

> Perfectly functional my ass. In case you hadn't kept up with GUI
development over the past few years (and it's obvious you haven't), editing
text files is out, and GUI editing is in. The avatars.dat should be
configurable from within AW--PERIOD.

Sure it is, but most of these tourists that enter AWGate aren't interested
in owning worlds - they want to learn how to use the software.

> I doubt it. If what AWCI claims on their universe stats is true, that
1000+ new users (tourists, not citizens) check out AW a day, more people are
being lost to a user-unfriendly interface, lack of features, citizenship
cost, performance, etc. Bots are used by a VERY VERY VERY small % of
CITIZENS (of which there are only around 10,000 UNIQUE, ORIGINAL,
UNDUPLICATED accounts at most).

That's not that bad then, if they're getting between 30-60 new users a day
according to Mauz's webpages - you can't expect everyone to stay aboard.

> http://tnlc.com/eep/aw/ and get a clue then.

You contradict yourself on that page as well (see previous posts).

> Duh, but instead of adding features people didn't ask for (like the move
and rotate commands), old bugs should be fixed and or circumvented. And I
never said AW needs a new interface, but that simply PARTS of it do.

You don't have any justification to say that people didn't ask for the move
and rotate commands. Everyone I know was complaining profusely when Roland
disabled the beta version for non-beta users, and since move and rotate
commands were the main features of AW 3.1, I would guess that they were what
grabbed those users' attention to complain about wanting the beta version so
badly.

> You confused yourself, bub. <shrug> Not my fault you can't keep up...

These sort of comments add nothing to the debate and only increase load
times.

Mar 15, 2001, 9:38pm

Could you send me some of that "base code" so that I could figure out how to
stop programming these ugly console applications, or is it private?

Mar 25, 2001, 1:15pm

I seriously doubt the validity of such a rumor. First, if AW was
going to declare bankruptcy, why wouldn't it do so while it was
incurring huge losses, as AW did in its early days? Now, AW has been
turning profits in most quarters. Also, why would AW make deals with
large corporations (caligari, nettaxi.com) just a month before the
declaration? I doubt that if AW was having financial trouble they
would have to shut down immediately. Finally, AW seems to have more
people visiting the universe than ever - there was a while last year
when people seemed to be avoiding the universe, but now AW reaches
near 750 people on Sunday nights (the busiest night of the week,
apparently). I remember that even during the Cy Awards on September
30, 2000, there were only about 525 people logged in at once. That's
a huge gain.

Apr 3, 2001, 9:37pm

I've also experienced this bug. It occurred after I added the world
NewYork to my server. I then attempted to open the administration
tool and the task was running, but it didn't appear. Later, After I
restarted the computer, the tool gave a strange error saying that
Windows couldn't load the DLL "admin.exe" which, of course, isn't a
DLL file. I tried again and attempted to load a propdump for NewYork,
but the administration tool crashed (perhaps it wasn't a valid
propdump, but if it wasn't, it should display an error message instead
of crashing.)

Configuration:
Windows 98
Pentium III, 400 Mhz
8.5GB free space on drive
128MB RAM
Linksys 4-port router and firewall in use

[View Quote]

Apr 8, 2001, 2:25pm

My understanding is that the 750 world limit is only for the worlds list (I
could be wrong, of course), because the AW browser can't display any more
worlds without using excessive bandwidth. Chances are that the connection
is being refused for some other reason.

[View Quote]

Apr 21, 2001, 6:02pm

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C0CA7A.CFCCCBE0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

This is just a warning to those who might have similar configurations to =
my system. I foolishly read the claims that it could speed up computers =
as fast as 1.5 GHz (my processor speed), so I tried the program. I =
noticed absolutely no change in speed, and the program deleted critical =
system files on my computer. After I send this post, I'm going to have =
to perform a system restore back to Thursday morning, before I installed =
Hare. If you do decide to install the program, be sure that you create =
a system checkpoint before installing it, or, if you have Windows 98 or =
95, it might be best not to try it at all.

------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C0CA7A.CFCCCBE0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#f0f0ff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>This is just a warning to those who =
might have=20
similar configurations to my system.&nbsp; I foolishly read the claims =
that it=20
could speed up computers as fast as 1.5 GHz (my processor speed), so I =
tried the=20
program.&nbsp; I noticed absolutely no change in speed, and the program =
deleted=20
critical system files on my computer.&nbsp; After I send this post, I'm =
going to=20
have to perform a system restore back to Thursday morning, before I =
installed=20
Hare.&nbsp; If you do decide to install the program, be sure that you =
create a=20
system checkpoint before installing it, or, if you have Windows 98 or =
95, it=20
might be best not to try it at all.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0023_01C0CA7A.CFCCCBE0--

Apr 28, 2001, 4:09pm

I think that dabartender is right - the only program on my computer that was
affected by the uninstallation of Hare before I performed a System Restore
was Visual Basic itself - particularly the main VB runtime file,
MSVBVM60.DLL. Perhaps Hare was written in VB, and the uninstallation
program removes the file without asking or checking to see whether it is in
use elsewhere.

[View Quote]

Apr 28, 2001, 6:10pm

Sounds great - but we'd need Eep to be one of the contestants like you
suggested - otherwise there would be no arch enemy to keep everyone
interested.

May 4, 2001, 5:43pm

I disagree.

Warning others about the misbehavior of a person (assuming that it's
proven, of course), does not lead to the end of a community, but
protects its members against those out to harm others. On the
contrary, not warning members of a community about a dangerous or
troublesome person could lead to the end of that community when the
troublemaker is mistakenly hired or given privileges by its leader,
and when the problem causer then proceeds to cause harm or damage to
members of the community. Furthermore, a lack of communication among
the AW universe allows shady characters to easily cause more and more
damage, with little (if any) punishment that AW or world owners can
(or choose to) inflict against the perpetrator after the damage has
occurred. Therefore, the only satisfactory way to resolve these
issues is to prevent them from happening in the first place.

If it were possible to post such a site (that warns of predators and
troublemakers) without encoutering problems such as slander, libel,
and other legal issues, I would wholely support Chuck's site. Look at
my previous post.

May 12, 2001, 2:12pm

Hey - it's not like I can do EVERYTHING around the world (lol). If
there wasn't a core to help out, then how would the world survive?

May 12, 2001, 5:29pm

Such is politics.... you can't expect everyone to agree with you.

May 13, 2001, 12:09pm

I disagree. The core is now doing better than ever. We tried a
democratic political system before, but everyone was too apathetic for
it to work.

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